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How do we know that Buddha is fully awakened?

LostieLostie Veteran
edited March 26 in General Banter

on what basis we can confidently say that? TIA

Comments

  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited March 26

    The Buddha is a word that describes one who is fully awakened.
    The basis for confidently saying that requires little more than a dictionary.

    lobsterShoshin1
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think the liminal space Veteran

    I don't think there is a simple, definitive test. One would have to take the time to look over his words and deeds and try to infer his mental state.

    Another related question might be, is awakening possible? Many have claimed it over the years and many have demonstrated remarkable qualities, many have also been charlatans. I can say for sure, from my own experience, that an improvement in one's own level of "awakenedness" can happen.

    Ren_in_blacklobster
  • KeromeKerome Lovingness is the way The Continent Veteran

    Gautama’s own descriptions of his awakening in the sutra’s are what most people would point to.

  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited March 26

    The proof-as they say- is in the pudding.

    Does the practice lead to wholesome actions or harmful ones?

    Personally, I suggest studying the Kalama (Kesamutti) Sutta in its entirety. Here is a relevant snippet from the Access to Insight site.

    So as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness" — then you should enter & remain in them.'

    Shoshin1lobster
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited March 26

    I also find that the word "fully" preconditions the OP'S question with a perfectionism that,
    while followed, mires itself in the very dream that the Buddha exhorted his followers to awaken from.

    Ren_in_blackDavid
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    I think Buddha said somewhere to come see for yourself. Like how do you know sugar is sweet if you never tried it?

    Kerome
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    If it feels good, do it.
    When in doubt - don't.

    I can't speak for others but I go through ups and downs. In and out, wander off, come back again.
    And each time I do, I realise more fully. It's not Buddhism that is found wanting.
    It's me.

    howlobsterTheEccentric
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    How do we know that Buddha is fully awakened?

    Let us imagine or even propose that @Lostie is not fully asleep and maybe even potentially a snoozing Buddha (wakey, wakey) ...

    Now deep down we are aware of our real condition. It has certain qualities:

    • subject to change
    • can be stillified with practice

    How do we know? Experience.

    TheEccentric
  • Shoshin1Shoshin1 Veteran

    How do we know that Buddha is fully awakened?
    on what basis we can confidently say that?

    By waking up...Well thus have I heard, ( or I could be dreaming)

  • KeromeKerome Lovingness is the way The Continent Veteran

    Do we really need to know? The Buddha’s teaching instills confidence of the truth by allowing you to gradually discern the truth of it, eventually you come to accept his enlightenment as well.

    Fosdicklobsterperson
  • LostieLostie Veteran
    edited April 1

    Thanks all fellow newbuddhists for your enlightening responses.
    I guess it’s 入门靠师傅,修行靠个人 . =)

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Easy for you to say...!

    how
  • LostieLostie Veteran

    @federica said:
    Easy for you to say...!

    Why do I feel trolled by the moderator ? :p

    lobsterfedericaShoshin1
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I resorted to GT...
    "Getting started depends on the master, practice depends on the individual".

    I'll drink to that...

  • LostieLostie Veteran

    @federica said:
    I'll drink to that...

    Amen to that :)

  • dramaqueendramaqueen USA Explorer

    "There are two ancient Buddhist texts called the Theragatha and Therigatha which are full of the joyful utterances of the Buddha's disciples, both male and female, who found peace and happiness in life through his teaching.

    The king of Kosala once told the Buddha that unlike many a disciple of other religious systems who looked haggard, coarse, pale, emaciated and unprepossessing, his disciples were 'joyful and elated (hattha-pahattha), jubilant and exultant (udaggudagga), enjoying the spiritual life (abhiratariipa), with faculties pleased (pinitindrija), free from anxiety (appossukka), serene (pannaloma), peaceful (paradavutta) and living with a gazelle's mind (migabhiitena cetasa), i.e., light-hearted.'

    The king added that he believed that this healthy disposition was due to the fact that 'these venerable ones had certainly realized the great and full significance of the Blessed One's teaching.'

    Buddhism is quite opposed to the melancholic, sorrowful, penitent and gloomy attitude of mind which is considered a hindrance to the realization of Truth. On the other hand, it is interesting to remember here that joy (piti) is one of the seven Bojjbamgas or 'Factors of Enlightenment', the essential qualities to be cultivated for the realization of Nirvana."

    From What the Buddha Taught (Walpola Rahula)

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    I'll join @dramaqueen =)

    Will there be pureland dharma enlightenment cake?

  • ChoephalChoephal UK Veteran

    @Lostie said:
    on what basis we can confidently say that? TIA

    That’s a bit like saying “How do we know that Einstein understood “The Special Theory Of Relativity”. We can only discuss it at all because Einstein demonstrated it mathematically.
    Likewise,
    We can only discuss the Buddhist view of Enlightenment at all because the Buddha revealed it. The Buddhas take on Enlightenment differs from the Vedic view of merging with Brahman or the Sufi’s Fana. So it comes down to whether we accept the Buddhas view of his own realisation.
    Books and videos can only take us so far in this. The real test lies in experiencing in a small way the truth of the Dharma, and building from there.

    howlobsterJeffrey
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran

    How COULD we know this? True knowledge is first-hand experience and I have no contact with Buddha.

    But I have met senior Lamas. They are different and it floors you. And my own local Lama teacher came to my city 20 years ago, and I have observed his changes over the years. My own poor progress is the third kind of proof I have that something develops over time as we do the practices.

    While I am nowhere close to enlightenment, I have experienced and seen proof of progress, and it is easy to imagine how far this COULD go. I could see Buddha being fully enlightened .. at least as clearly as my own level of ignorance allows me to comprehend such a state.

    lobsterJeffreyChoephaldramaqueen
  • dramaqueendramaqueen USA Explorer

    @lobster said:
    I'll join @dramaqueen =)

    Will there be pureland dharma enlightenment cake?

    There can only be smiles so yes, cake sounds good, my friend.

  • dramaqueendramaqueen USA Explorer

    Inspired by @FoibleFull I will say that everything the Buddha taught is true, and that Nibbana is not a myth at all. It's a really beautiful thing.

  • LostieLostie Veteran

    @dramaqueen said:
    Inspired by @FoibleFull I will say that everything the Buddha taught is true, and that Nibbana is not a myth at all. It's a really beautiful thing.

    Absolutely. Being mindful is as real as it gets. But quantifying mindfulness is the intangible hard part.

    From where I come from, some argue we can look at the number of sarira after cremation to quantify things. Well I’m still a sceptic on this one.

  • dramaqueendramaqueen USA Explorer
    edited April 12

    @Lostie said:

    @dramaqueen said:
    Inspired by @FoibleFull I will say that everything the Buddha taught is true, and that Nibbana is not a myth at all. It's a really beautiful thing.

    Absolutely. Being mindful is as real as it gets. But quantifying mindfulness is the intangible hard part.

    From where I come from, some argue we can look at the number of sarira after cremation to quantify things. Well I’m still a sceptic on this one.

    Being mindful is not yet nibbana although mindfulness is the path to the deathless.

    It really doesn't matter what people believe or disbelieve IMO - joy is its own reward and it's priceless.

    lobsterFoibleFull
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