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The Rulz of Dharma (official)

From another dimension thread …

How many weeds in the garden are too many?
How many ants in the kitchen are too many?
How many bacteria on the skin are too many?

  • All weeds flower, if cultivated, hybridised or made sentient.
  • Ants are miniature communists, enemies of the Inner State and known for rambling …
  • The only good bacteria are dead bacteria. We are all bacteria now!

What rules do you live by, break when convenient or nobody notices?

I'll start (Only fair).

Wait … rulz are not always fair, sometimes they are dark.

Comments

  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran
    edited February 22

    Is meditation important? Or can I just be lazy and be mindful all day instead. :3

    This is a confessions thread, right?

    Bunks
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    Ooooo confessions???

    I drink beer sometimes

    O.o

    FleaMarketShoshin1
  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran
    edited February 22

    Every time you make a rule for yourself and then break it, you play with and decrease your dedication.

    I make no rules. I aim to follow the path of integration, where body and mind are in harmony with what is, and I am sensitive to my own needs and the needs of the world.

    FleaMarket
  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran
    edited February 22

    I think I meant to post this in here..It seemed off the mark in the other thread.

    @FleaMarket said:
    If I understand Kamma correctly..

    We are born.
    We cause action.
    That action causes other actions which cause more actions which cause more actions ad infinitum.
    Then we die.
    Then our body decomposes and our stuff gets eaten by other things. Those things get eaten by things which get eaten by things which get eaten by things...and now we're a human again cuz humans eat everything eventually. Maybe even as a relative that knew you when you were alive..

    ..I mean if you farm-to-table it quick enough who knows how fast you could come back.
    Body, soil, crops, livestock, back to body!..

    Now we're living again in the world we caused through our actions.
    Is it a good one or a bad one? Look to your actions as a guide.
    Reminds me of a boomerang.

    You catch what you throw?

    Hope I'm not too far off the mark.

  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran
    edited February 22

    Why is it always new Buddhists or Masters? What happened to the novice to advanced Buddhists? Is it just circles all the way down?

    I don't always pay attention. But when I do, its to wonder why I haven't been paying any attention.

    personJeffreyKotishkaShoshin1
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think the liminal space Veteran

    @Jeroen said:
    Every time you make a rule for yourself and then break it, you play with and decrease your dedication.

    I make no rules. I aim to follow the path of integration, where body and mind are in harmony with what is, and I am sensitive to my own needs and the needs of the world.

    I'm much the same way, I tend not to make rules for myself because I hate breaking them. But if your first statement is correct (which I believe it is) then the corollary is probably also true. Each time you make a rule for yourself and then keep it, you increase your dedication.

    Jeffrey
  • ShanJieshi2ShanJieshi2 bahia blanca Veteran

    @Jeroen said:
    Every time you make a rule for yourself and then break it, you play with and decrease your dedication.

    I make no rules. I aim to follow the path of integration, where body and mind are in harmony with what is, and I am sensitive to my own needs and the needs of the world.

    I don't make rules for others, I set boundaries for myself.

  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    Rules, in place of objectivity, are obscurations for those unable to accept the innate nature of the chaos that surrounds them.
    Rules, as a substitute for fluidity, are fear of meeting the ethereal nature of any truth.
    Rules, for the inflexibly inclined, are another attachment in want of indulgence.

    Rules are seldom the issue. Our relationship with them, however, is a different story.

    JeroenKotishkalobsterFleaMarket
  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran

    Can I blink during open-eyed meditation?

    What is the significance of sitting with hands in lap vs hands on thighs?

    During close-eyed meditation is one to focus on the dark canvas which is the backside of the eyelid or does one roll their eyes up toward the point between brows where stories are told?

  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited February 23

    @FleaMarket said:
    Can I blink during open-eyed meditation?

    Certainly hope so. Otherwise your eyes could dry up and … not good.

    What is the significance of sitting with hands in lap vs hands on thighs?

    The differences are subtle. You can also place hands on knees face down, which is comforting.

    During close-eyed meditation is one to focus on the dark canvas which is the backside of the eyelid or does one roll their eyes up toward the point between brows where stories are told?

    You seem keen on concentrating, which is pre-meditation. Rolling the eyes upward is a yogic exercise.

    Whilst rolling my eyes upward, came across one of my old led meditations …

  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    @FleaMarket said:
    Can I blink during open-eyed meditation?

    What is the significance of sitting with hands in lap vs hands on thighs?

    During close-eyed meditation is one to focus on the dark canvas which is the backside of the eyelid or does one roll their eyes up toward the point between brows where stories are told?

    From my perspective.

    Blink when needed?

    Usually, each (mudra) hand position is part of a body position that is an invitation to a specific aspect of a meditation practice. (balancing/openness/grounding etc.)
    Just don't expect the hand mudra position, in itself, to address any more of the meditative work than you are also willing to address.

    Despite how different schools can be so proud of the self-declared differences between their open and closed eye meditations, what one deliberately does with the eyes in a closed eye meditation is functionally no different than what one does with an open-eyed meditation. Simply allow the sense gate of the eyes to function naturally without adding any mental deliberateness to its functioning.

    BunksFleaMarketlobster
  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran
    edited February 23

    @how said:
    Blink when needed?

    While asked in a joking manner, there was a true question of method here. Thank you for answering. I like to give the appearance that I can run and keep up with everyone else but I am trying to run while still learning how to sit.

    Usually, each (mudra) hand position is part of a body position that is an invitation to a specific aspect of a meditation practice. (balancing/openness/grounding etc.)
    Just don't expect the hand mudra position, in itself, to address any more of the meditative work than you are also willing to address.

    I experimented briefly with hand on hand, reversing hand on hand, hand on knee down, hand on knee up, etc. I certainly can sense subtle differences between them. I just don't understand how to interpret those differences yet. Your examples of balancing/openness/grounding make a lot of sense when I connect those words to the subtle differences in sensation. It reminds me of an extremely refined type of biofeedback and how there are physical sensations to emotional states which are manipulable. Hugging the cannonball in the stomach to self-sooth, blooming of a flower in the heart-centered chest to cultivate compassion, or standing in "superman" stance for confidence.

    What one deliberately does with the eyes in a closed eye meditation is functionally no different than what one does with an open-eyed meditation. Simply allow the sense gate of the eyes to function naturally without adding any mental deliberateness to its functioning.

    Between you and @lobster , this cleared up a lot of confusion for me surrounding meditation which makes it easier for me to practice it.
    I now realize when I meditate seated with eyes closed, I roll my eyes up out of comfort. A story naturally begins in my mind when I do this. As if rolling my eyes up while lids are closed is pressing a play button.
    When I keep my eyes pointed ahead or angled down, this grounds me in the present. Eyes closed like this is actually quite an uncomfortable feeling for me. With eyes open I find I can meditate with less discomfort around the eyes and less distraction from the mind. Maybe with more practice I will become more comfortable meditating with eyes closed.
    Learning the rolling of the eyes up and being in the mind this way is actually yogic exercise and not actual meditation helps me differentiate which activity I'm choosing to participate in.

    Jeffrey
  • Speaking of observations of in the present meditation and things we notice... I remember many years ago I noticed my blinking quite a bit during meditation. And I asked about it in the forum here. But I remember for several months I couldn't help but notice my blinking during meditation and often while not in meditation. And then the consciousness of all of my blinks went away and has been away since.

    I think a meditator both has a general sense of meditation that can be a common experience with others but they also has their own things happen with their meditation that don't happen with each and every meditator.

    lobsterFleaMarket
  • I think a meditator both has a general sense of meditation that can be a common experience with others but they also has their own things happen with their meditation that don't happen with each and every meditator.

    True.
    And important.

    For example:

    FleaMarket
  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran

    @lobster said:

    I think a meditator both has a general sense of meditation that can be a common experience with others but they also has their own things happen with their meditation that don't happen with each and every meditator.

    True.
    And important.

    For example:

    Oh this article helped a lot. I never understood what to do with it. So much makes sense now.. So you only label a distraction until it is no longer predominant? Not until its completely gone? I almost see mine like a bubble in my mind's eye that shrinks as I pelt it with label word but sometimes it will fight back and get bigger as I don't pelt it.

    When concentration and insight are developed to the level as described in that article, what is next?

    How does this relate to stages of Jhana?

    @lobster You have a lot of great articles that speak clearly and are usually helpful in getting at least a foothold into understanding.

  • How does this relate to stages of Jhana?

    One of the things helpful is a spiritual journal, meditation journal or blog. To understand jhana, bumi, ox herding pictures or similar we need time …

    How much? Nun. Or to put it another 007 way. All the time in the world.

    Be interested in others jhana advice.
    https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/jhana-the-spice-your-meditation-has-been-missing/

  • Ajahn Brahm has a book all about reaching jhana and what to do with it called Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond.

    Jhana is controversial. Brahm (and some others) believe Jhana was the novel discovery of the Buddha when he stopped following his current teacher and meditated like he had as a child (Jhana) and became enlightened. Others believe that Jhana was what the Buddha's current teachers had taught but that it wasn't enough and he returned to the meditation he had as a child and that meditation lead to enlightenment. So there is some controversy. Brahm admits that there is no directed thought in Jhana, but that Jhana gives you (on looking back) data on the Annica Anatta and Dukkha which you reflect on after Jhana. And Jhana enhances your concentration to examine those and which is also expressed in a negative sense as freeing you from the 5 hindrances. Brahm believes it's like a flashlight (Jhana) and a map (dharma) that you use together to become enlightened.

    I haven't heard the polemics of my tradition how it compares to Brahm's tradition on these matters.

    The method in the book I mentioned starts with limiting awareness. To the present. Then away from the stream of thoughts. Then just to the breath. Etc...

    I find it quite hard just limiting awareness to the present!

    FleaMarketKotishka
  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran

    @lobster said:
    One of the things helpful is a spiritual journal, meditation journal or blog.

    How does this work? Similar to yours? More like a dream journal? Just jotted notes during discovery as one walks their journey?

    I have a lot of notes... but no idea what to do with them.
    I'm realizing some of what I'm learning these last two months is overlaps with states I've been exploring in less organized fashion for some time. I feel like I have formed many chunks of puzzle pieces but still don't see how they fit together or in what order or hierarchy.
    Something's not clicking yet so I'll start working on a more formal path into Vipassana and hopefully the order will reveal itself so I can connect some of these fragments of understanding I have swimming around.

  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran

    Is it fair to describe it as a sense of falling in love with the moment and activity in the moment?

  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran
    edited February 24

    @Jeffrey said:
    Brahm believes it's like a flashlight (Jhana) and a map (dharma) that you use together to become enlightened.

    I hear love shines the light, compassion leads the way.

    BunksJeffrey
  • Something's not clicking yet

    You have notes. Scrap book/journal might work.
    You are in a position to make your choices, decisions … and answer …

    So, sew, soe … The notes are clicks away. How to sew them all together and provide seeds …

    Bunks
  • @FleaMarket said:
    Is it fair to describe it as a sense of falling in love with the moment and activity in the moment?

    Fair for whom? When? Now? For ever?
    Answer it! Fair?

  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran

    @lobster said:
    Fair for whom? When? Now? For ever?
    Answer it! Fair?

    Does it label the experience sufficiently enough to explore whether what I'm experiencing is on the path or off the path?

  • There is no off.
    We are always on.

    You knew that!

    FleaMarketJeroen
  • FleaMarketFleaMarket Newbie, not Veteran

    @lobster said:
    There is no off.
    We are always on.

    You knew that!

    Hmm...a reminder.
    The answers I seek are already there. I just have to be willing to observe them as they are. I spent much of my life making something out of nothing. Now I get to spend it taking that something apart.

    Shoshin1lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @FleaMarket said:
    Is it fair to describe it as a sense of falling in love with the moment and activity in the moment?

    It is not fair to describe it. How then not to describe it?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_(spiritual)

    It's a pickle!

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