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No constitutional protection for abortion in the US
….. * reaches out to shake your hand vigorously *
Apology accepted. See, that was easy…I’m glad you see where I’m coming from and want the same for me as you. I would appreciate your vote of support .
0
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
edited August 2022
I see this as a matter of competing rights. A woman has a right to her body, but also I think unborn babies have some rights upon viability. This is why I don't think the gendered arguments hold much weight, to address those specifically, there isn't the competing interest. And there are lots of situations in society where we curtail the rights of some for the good of others.
The argument for at will abortion until birth that I'm hearing is that women are responsible enough to make that decision for themselves and a curtailing of that is a curtailing of the basic human right to bodily autonomy. If I have that right the things that come to mind for me are what about the cases where an unborn baby is killed in the act of a crime? People are held criminally liable for that and the family involved grieves it as a loss of their child. The other is with 3.5 million births each year in the US if .1% of women decide to end a pregnancy late for something like breaking up with the father or just a change of heart, last minute fears, etc. that's 35,000 late term abortions. I don't think I can support that.
I am comfortable taking the position of at will abortion up until viability and then after in select situations as the proper place to set a standard. Life begins at conception is a religious belief and has no business in the laws of a secular country. Adoption is an option, my aunt gave up a child to adoption when she was young and that cousin of mine recently reconnected with our family.
Ok. If your mind is made up…it’s made up.
Based on what I know/ things you said about you over the years…
I’m still gonna say this to your face…..
Im not taking advice or guidance from a man who definitely has less experience when it comes to cooking a baby, making life decisions on it and suddenly becoming responsible for another human being 24/7 on all things this subject matters. Point blank.
Advice is one thing…but putting pen to paper is another
Frankly, I don’t find you qualified to have a vote at this point. Not for me personally and woman as a whole. Not on the law books.
I’m not going to get in to adoption and the foster care system in this country. It’s a mess and children are paying the price.
Don’t come to me with that.
. Life is real shit out here for a lot of people in this world and women get it.
Im going to work now , bye. See ya later.
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@person said:... I guess I would like to know where you or @federica may stand when it comes to limits on abortion? Do you think there should be any?
I am against the taking of any viable life, but I'm equally against a misogynistic authoritarian regime that prohibits a woman from deciding for herself, what she herself can and cannot do, to her body.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I personally think abortion is a constitutional right (one that'd been upheld for 40 years), and that abortion itself is healthcare, and that these laws and recent rulings are more about controlling women's bodies than protecting life. And while many people have moral objections to abortion, especially at later stages of pregnancy, a fertilized egg/embryo is, for all intents and purposes, a part of that person's body, and no one should have the right to tell another person what to do with their own body. Such decisions should be made by that individual, not made for them by others.
If you're against abortion, you don't have to have one. Having abortion be legally available and easily accessible makes it safer for anyone seeking to end an unwanted pregnancy. Without it being so, those who aren't ready to have children, are impregnated against their will, etc. will either be forced to carry and have unwanted children, which isn't good for them or the child, or else have to rely on alternative and often unsafe methods of terminating pregnancies, e.g., herbal abortifacients that may be toxic; illegal and unsafe abortions (which result in an estimated 70,000 deaths per year worldwide); etc.
Someone who's pregnant shouldn't be forced to give birth if they choose not to for whatever reason. Everyone should have complete control of their bodies and their healthcare decisions, especially women and transgender individuals who are targeted the most by these kinds of conservative laws and rulings. It'd nobody else's business. And a vast majority of Americans, up to 70%, agree with this and are in favour of Roe v. Wade. Yet these rights are being dismantled by a handful of people in positions of power, and those who wish to force their own personal moral and religious beliefs onto the rest of the population. We shouldn't allow this to stand; and we shouldn't just leave it all up to legislators and judges, especially in this case since Democrats have failed to codify reproductive rights into law and it's unlikely they'll be able to pass the legislation needed to do so now thanks to its more conservative members of Congress.
As usual, it's up to everyday people to fight for and defend these rights. Women and their allies won the right to vote and to their own reproductive choices through years of organizing, activism, and direct action. We have to make our voices heard and support organizations that advocate for these rights and provide these services, creating organizations like the Jane Collective — which helped women, particularly poor women with limited options, get abortions before Roe v. Wade legalized the procedure — if need be. We should also take a page from places like Poland and Mexico, where people took to the streets to protest against abortion bans and in support of legalization, as well as other places that fully cover all forms of reproductive healthcare, including contraception and abortion.
As it currently stands, only the lucky or the wealthy have access as almost 90% of US counties lack a provider. And it's likely even less now. And while voting is important, we can't rely on voting alone. Politicians have let us down time and again on this and many other issues. We have to also engage in direct actions to secure these rights and support alternatives as well mutual aid and support structures for those providing services, seeking services, or facing legal repercussions as a result of either. It has nothing to do with concepts such as fairness; it's all about bodily autonomy.
Comments
….. * reaches out to shake your hand vigorously *
Apology accepted. See, that was easy…I’m glad you see where I’m coming from and want the same for me as you. I would appreciate your vote of support .
I see this as a matter of competing rights. A woman has a right to her body, but also I think unborn babies have some rights upon viability. This is why I don't think the gendered arguments hold much weight, to address those specifically, there isn't the competing interest. And there are lots of situations in society where we curtail the rights of some for the good of others.
The argument for at will abortion until birth that I'm hearing is that women are responsible enough to make that decision for themselves and a curtailing of that is a curtailing of the basic human right to bodily autonomy. If I have that right the things that come to mind for me are what about the cases where an unborn baby is killed in the act of a crime? People are held criminally liable for that and the family involved grieves it as a loss of their child. The other is with 3.5 million births each year in the US if .1% of women decide to end a pregnancy late for something like breaking up with the father or just a change of heart, last minute fears, etc. that's 35,000 late term abortions. I don't think I can support that.
I am comfortable taking the position of at will abortion up until viability and then after in select situations as the proper place to set a standard. Life begins at conception is a religious belief and has no business in the laws of a secular country. Adoption is an option, my aunt gave up a child to adoption when she was young and that cousin of mine recently reconnected with our family.
Ok. If your mind is made up…it’s made up.
Based on what I know/ things you said about you over the years…
I’m still gonna say this to your face…..
Im not taking advice or guidance from a man who definitely has less experience when it comes to cooking a baby, making life decisions on it and suddenly becoming responsible for another human being 24/7 on all things this subject matters. Point blank.
Advice is one thing…but putting pen to paper is another
Frankly, I don’t find you qualified to have a vote at this point. Not for me personally and woman as a whole. Not on the law books.
I’m not going to get in to adoption and the foster care system in this country. It’s a mess and children are paying the price.
Don’t come to me with that.
. Life is real shit out here for a lot of people in this world and women get it.
Im going to work now , bye. See ya later.
I am against the taking of any viable life, but I'm equally against a misogynistic authoritarian regime that prohibits a woman from deciding for herself, what she herself can and cannot do, to her body.
America, you aree truly FUCKED UP.
https://www.nola.com/news/healthcare_hospitals/article_d08b59fe-1e39-11ed-a669-a3570eeed885.html
I personally think abortion is a constitutional right (one that'd been upheld for 40 years), and that abortion itself is healthcare, and that these laws and recent rulings are more about controlling women's bodies than protecting life. And while many people have moral objections to abortion, especially at later stages of pregnancy, a fertilized egg/embryo is, for all intents and purposes, a part of that person's body, and no one should have the right to tell another person what to do with their own body. Such decisions should be made by that individual, not made for them by others.
If you're against abortion, you don't have to have one. Having abortion be legally available and easily accessible makes it safer for anyone seeking to end an unwanted pregnancy. Without it being so, those who aren't ready to have children, are impregnated against their will, etc. will either be forced to carry and have unwanted children, which isn't good for them or the child, or else have to rely on alternative and often unsafe methods of terminating pregnancies, e.g., herbal abortifacients that may be toxic; illegal and unsafe abortions (which result in an estimated 70,000 deaths per year worldwide); etc.
Someone who's pregnant shouldn't be forced to give birth if they choose not to for whatever reason. Everyone should have complete control of their bodies and their healthcare decisions, especially women and transgender individuals who are targeted the most by these kinds of conservative laws and rulings. It'd nobody else's business. And a vast majority of Americans, up to 70%, agree with this and are in favour of Roe v. Wade. Yet these rights are being dismantled by a handful of people in positions of power, and those who wish to force their own personal moral and religious beliefs onto the rest of the population. We shouldn't allow this to stand; and we shouldn't just leave it all up to legislators and judges, especially in this case since Democrats have failed to codify reproductive rights into law and it's unlikely they'll be able to pass the legislation needed to do so now thanks to its more conservative members of Congress.
As usual, it's up to everyday people to fight for and defend these rights. Women and their allies won the right to vote and to their own reproductive choices through years of organizing, activism, and direct action. We have to make our voices heard and support organizations that advocate for these rights and provide these services, creating organizations like the Jane Collective — which helped women, particularly poor women with limited options, get abortions before Roe v. Wade legalized the procedure — if need be. We should also take a page from places like Poland and Mexico, where people took to the streets to protest against abortion bans and in support of legalization, as well as other places that fully cover all forms of reproductive healthcare, including contraception and abortion.
As it currently stands, only the lucky or the wealthy have access as almost 90% of US counties lack a provider. And it's likely even less now. And while voting is important, we can't rely on voting alone. Politicians have let us down time and again on this and many other issues. We have to also engage in direct actions to secure these rights and support alternatives as well mutual aid and support structures for those providing services, seeking services, or facing legal repercussions as a result of either. It has nothing to do with concepts such as fairness; it's all about bodily autonomy.