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Running on Karma (2003) HK movie - a question on karma

LostieLostie Veteran
in General Banter

In the movie, the female lead had to die because of the bad things (eg beheading) a Japanese soldier did during WW2. In fact she was beheaded by some crazy guy.

That means karma debt is not individual specific but shared among all. We can pay for what others have done. However, what we can do in the present life is still to do good to accumulate good karma but we may or may not enjoy the fruits.

Is that the right view on karma? i.e. Karma is universal and not individual specific. Thanks.

Shoshin1David

Comments

  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    I didn't see the movie....but

    Karma is universal, ripening into fruition whenever its causal factors allow it to. If those causal factors are substantial enough within any individual's karmic inheritance, then that karma's fruition can be seen to be specific to that individual. It is also important to realize that Karma is only one, of a number of other laws, that describe how the circumstances of life around us can be affected.

    I think a view on Karma can be measured more helpfully as "right" whenever its teaching helps anyone move from selfishness to selflessness.

    VastmindlobsterDavid
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    edited June 20

    I've heard teachings on collective karma, such as when large groups of people are affected by the same circumstance, but I'm not sure how authentic that view is. I think in general karma is specific to an individual, so if you're a generous person your karmic stream will reap those seeds rather than someone else.

    And like @how mentioned there are other factors aside from karma that have causal impacts on the world and individuals in it.

  • Shoshin1Shoshin1 Sentient Being Oceania Veteran

    We all run on karma ...

    paulysotoo
  • LostieLostie Veteran

    Thanks for the replies.
    What other causal factors are at play here? Is Karma one of the causal factors? Any examples?
    TIA

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    edited June 21

    @Lostie said:
    Thanks for the replies.
    What other causal factors are at play here? Is Karma one of the causal factors? Any examples?
    TIA

    I seem to remember seeing simple lists of the factors of about half a dozen or so things, such as environmental or mental conditions. I'm having a hard time getting google to find it for me. Its not something I've ever been very familiar with, I believe it is more of a Theravadin teaching.

    This is the wiki to study to get a taste of causality in Buddhism, though it is a bit scholarly and dense.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratītyasamutpāda
    Related to your OP though I did find a piece that may be relevant from the wiki.

    According to Richard Gombrich, the East Asian interpretation of dependent origination as the idea that "all phenomena exert causal influence on each other" does not follow from the early Buddhist understanding of dependent origination.[242] He further argues that this interpretation "would subvert the Buddha's teaching of karma." This is because "if we were heirs of other people's deeds, the whole moral edifice would collapse."

    So the interpretation of karma presented in the movie seems to be only one interpretation tied to that region and judging by the quote sounds controversial.

    Edit: This opened up a whole line of inquiry and curiosity for me. It seems a universal view of karma is in line with the Huayan school of Chinese Buddhism. @how might come from that lineage, at any rate I'd like to ask him if he does?

    David
  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    @Lostie
    The 5 laws of the universe from one Buddhist Mahayana perspective are...

    (1) The laws of the physical world. The world is not answerable to one's personal will.
    (2) The laws of the organic world - That all things flow. Anicca
    (3) The laws of morality - That karma is inexorable.
    (4) The laws of the Dharma- That ultimately, evil is vanquished and good prevails.
    (5) The laws of the mind - Intuitive knowledge of Buddha Nature occurs to all.

    One of the more helpful teachings offered by these 5 laws, is that Karma, while being inexorable, is not the entire arbiter for Buddhists as to why things happen. The 5 laws teaching can soften much of the judgementalism or extremism that can occur whenever students look towards karma for the entire explanation of everything.

    Good call @person

    but what Chan schools don't claim the 5th patriarch as one of their own?
    Is a lineage one of those games where one person gives a message to another who then tell another and the comedy of it all is how different it becomes the more times the story is retold?
    Yes, this is all heretical if you're in a devotional practice, and a simple joke when meditation itself is your teacher.

    My Rinzai friends say I'm Soto, while my Soto friends call me Rinzai, so Buddha knows where my lineage got misplaced today?

    lobsterpersonFosdickDavid
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    My Rinzai friends say I'm Soto, while my Soto friends call me Rinzai, so Buddha knows where my lineage got misplaced today?

    ;) Keep up the good work. <3

    Have you considered using nitrogen dioxide, prancing about Bhagwan style and being extra charismatic? You get a Rolls-Royce for each day of the year. You might call yourself 'Howard OSHO the Zenith' or similar and... befuddle children and the weak-minded... :p

    Count me in! o:)

    May all lobsters benefit.
    https://thetattooedbuddha.com/2016/02/09/in-darshan-when-zen-becomes-cult/

    howVastmind
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited June 22

    @ Lobster
    https://thetattooedbuddha.com/2016/02/09/in-darshan-when-zen-becomes-cult/
    was a worthwhile read for me.

    All schools have their strengths and weaknesses. This story is a good retelling of one of Zen's potential weaknesses, when inattentive teachers allow their followers to mistake self-effort for right effort, resulting in both teachers & students karmically harming each other with cult-like behaviors.

    lobsterJeroenVastmind
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited June 25

    @Lostie said:
    In the movie, the female lead had to die because of the bad things (eg beheading) a Japanese soldier did during WW2. In fact she was beheaded by some crazy guy.

    That means karma debt is not individual specific but shared among all. We can pay for what others have done. However, what we can do in the present life is still to do good to accumulate good karma but we may or may not enjoy the fruits.

    Is that the right view on karma? i.e. Karma is universal and not individual specific. Thanks.

    I think it's a mixed bag. That karma works individually and inclusively. If we emit negativity, negativity follows "like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox" and likewise with positivity. If we help others and we know there is no seperation there, we are helping ourself as well.

    I do think shared karma is a thing because I see rebirth like the hydrological system here on Earth.

    lobster
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