Going to the Gym
person
Don't believe everything you thinkThe liminal space Veteran
This winter is looking like a slower work season, so I got a membership at a gym to help keep active. I like going and its easy when I don't have much going on. What is interesting is noticing all the things being there activates in my mind. Or rather all the things in my mind that haven't been let go of going to the gym activates.
I think all these things are fairly subtle movements of mind, but they're things that are usually buried. Like trying not to creep on the young attractive women, or judge the overweight people. There's also a seeming obsession with imagining romantic relationships, or who I'd have a shot with, etc.
On one level its kind of misery making. On another it shows me relatively unexplored areas that need to be resolved and let go of, or worked on in some way.
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Bravo! This is a fine demonstration of bringing along one's meditation from stillness into activity.
Yeah I believe due to evolution we are wired to notice potential mates. But good to not creep out any people. also good going getting exercise which is the best preventative and treatment for many diseases and just generally feels good after awhile.
It sounds like a good way to allow mindfulness to do its work. Being aware of the contents of your mind is really a good practice, and even better if you can couple it with non-judgmental letting them come and go again.
The language you use indicates you are sorting thoughts into good and bad. Creeping on younger women = bad. Judging overweight people = bad. You are already involving the minds judgment as you verbalise how you feel.
“The Great Way is not difficult
for those who have no preferences.
When love and hate are both absent
everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction, however,
and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.
If you wish to see the truth
then hold no opinions for or against anything.
To set up what you like against what you dislike
is the disease of the mind.”
— Sosan, Verses on the faith mind
coincidentally I'm reading a one page article about a researchers efforts to study preventing aging negative outcomes.
By studying c elegans, or roundworms, they noticed that specimens that had an oxidative stress were resistant to some aging . And then further tests confirmed this by exposing an entire population of worms to oxidative stress. Worms are studied for one thing because you get answers in months instead of years with humans. And c elegans have biological similarity to humans apparently.
Humans can get moderate oxidative stress via exercise. It can damage us at the wrong dose, but help us at the correct level and is called hormesis. And this lab is studying the molecular and cellular level of changes from hormesis (in humans). Professor Ursula Jakob.
So longer time to live is good and more time to practice.
I'd like to think I'm discerning rather than judging, but maybe not. Like in the sense of where I'd like to end up and how I'd like to treat and think about others. "Mind as vast as the sky, behavior as fine as sand" requires some sort of distinction between this and that.
How would you phrase or think about it?
The daily living of one's Dharma practice is a form of mental gymnastics, for example exercising discretion.
Well, I generally think anything I think about other people is unnecessary and more about judgment than anything worthwhile. I try not to judge, and I usually succeed. If you are having to catch bad thoughts about judging people, then it’s already too late, the ‘judging program’ is running in your mind.
About being discerning about my own behaviour, I let kindness and compassion take my focus, I think that as long as I am not harming other people or animals or even rocks I am doing ok. I like the motto, touch the world lightly.
So I try to address my behaviour at the root, at the point of the first cause, rather than sorting out later whether my thoughts were good or bad, or my behaviour was good or bad.
Maybe you make a good point. I guess the language I use doesn't really bother me. I feel like I can use it while still working on underlying things. In general I suppose I don't take a very critical approach to my own spiritual work, I feel like if I'm making the effort the results will take care of themselves.
It isn’t so much about the language, as what the language says about the thinking, I feel. The language is only a pointer. Judging and trying to keep conduct fine is a stage along the path, where a little further there is a conviction in kindness and compassion and non-violence where good behaviour flows naturally.
It is a process of purification, which for me was led by an inquiry into the roots of urges. Why is it that you feel the urge to judge overweight people? What is the root cause of that urge? Most often by gaining that insight you can free yourself from those driving factors, and earn a certain release. The more free you become from inner drives - which are often caused by dreams, illusions, mis identification - the more the inner nature of kindness starts to shine through.
It doesn’t solve all problems, I’m still not a great fan of doing dishes and will sometimes have difficulty finding energy to motivate myself when it’s actually my turn to clear up the kitchen. But focussing insight leads to ever deeper realisations about which urges you have picked up.
Reflecting on this a bit more. I question whether inner work alone is enough. One could be driven by kindness but be ignorant of local or current customs. What is considered kind varies by time and location. In the not so distant past the average man probably thought it was a kindness to inform their women coworkers that they should put on a nice smile.
That is an interesting question. There are teachers who say that the right kind of work also contributes to the purifying process, for example physical work as a finisher of furniture. I have heard that the physical work as a discipline supports the inner work.
As far as culture is concerned, kindness has a certain universal character, but it also adjusts to the culture. There are certain things that are never kind, and certain things that are always kind. In between there is a certain cultural variability, it seems to me.
Questioning whether inner work alone is enough, is good.
The only thing separating a practice into inner & outer states of work is our own habituated responses to phenomena. Is this not a dream to be awakened from?
The degree that one's practice is being limited to inner work alone, is the degree that a hardening of the ego, a solidification of one's identity, a separation between self & others, and a state of Prechecca Buddhahood, is being beckoned to.
In a Buddhist practice, it's what marks the difference between what's appropriate and inappropriate in the development of concentration in the 8 fold path.
Not sure if this is what you meant. What we do with our bodies has an impact on our nervous system and that in turn has an impact on our minds. For example, certain advice for dealing with a feeling of helplessness is to garden or build something. Physically accomplishing something sends signals to our body and thus mind that we can get stuff done.
Yeah, I don't want to come off as a relativist. I believe in pluralism, I think there are universal generalities that underlay differing positive ethical frameworks. My intention was to say that good intentions often aren't enough or can even lead us astray. Compassion AND wisdom are the two wings we need to fly.
As a flying furry lobster (I have four wings incidentally)… I am usually invisibly, pulling or sometimes pushing Santas slay. It is the least I can do if not in the present presence.
Hail Santa anyone?
I think you mean Pratyeka Buddhahood? I found some of the principles of Buddhism to be of great help, though many were communicated through books, rather than a teacher or guide, so to say that “whatever freedom I have reached I have reached independently” would not be accurate.
We all contain patchworks of teachings, different teachers leaving their marks. Each spiritual man or woman has a unique journey, and you have to find your own path to flourishing. So in a way there is no other way than the way of the Pratyeka Buddha, in my experience.
The idea of a Buddha or master who is going to enlighten you seems to me far fetched.
@Jeroen
I saw the term Prechecca "Pratyeka" Buddha used mainly as a teaching term to warn long-time Buddhist practitioners to guard against straying too long into levels of spiritual materialism and quietism-based attachments. A term used by teachers to experienced students, questioning if they have just created a bit of a karmic cocoon for themselves while resting on their spiritual laurels. A warning, if you will, that a practice that is still self-based will remain suffering-bound until that practice's intent is actually for the benefit of all beings.
A Pratyeka Buddha is often a reference to a limited understanding that lacks the skillful means needed to transmit the appropriate Dharma to others.
I do this all the time, never with the intent to act (as I am happily married) but, apparently, to pass the time more quickly or entertain myself or something. Glad to hear I am not the only one.
For me its been really annoying and misery making. I've never had those relationship game playing skills, and after a few failed relationships found spirituality a more natural and fulfilling path and thus never had the incentive to develop them.
I guess I've been removed from the "meat market" and hadn't really dealt with my own related desires. I'm finding just this little exposure rather bothersome. This comparing mind, self judgement about how in shape or stylish I am so as to be attractive. Ugh, I hate even thinking about it.
I suppose all this means that there is work to do in this area and isolation from it only kept it dormant. I'm just venting and reflecting, don't mind me.
It’s funny, I’m not really that attractive, I carry too much weight, but I notice myself catching glances and smiles from women when I’m helping my mother around the hospital and around the trains. It’s nice to get the positive attention.
Its weird, when I was younger and pursuing such things I rarely got attention. Then sometime maybe starting 10 years ago or so I would catch the occasional look from at times fairly attractive women. I don't have the game or the interest in relationships enough to pursue.
As I sit here considering my response, I wonder how much of this is my own buried craving and how much is it a vibe I'm picking up from the gym itself? At any rate its a decidedly suffering state of mind. I've found that in immersing myself with mindfulness I can gain some understanding and space, or perhaps resistance to its pull.
I'm realizing there is some buried pain around this topic for me. When I was younger I had a few girlfriends but they never lasted, my takeaway was that I wasn't appealing or confident enough, or something. I stepped away and pursued a spiritual life. I'd always been the type of person happy doing things by myself, so that's what I did, and I am pretty happy.
All this stuff about being good enough, or playing the game or whatever it is to attract a partner is stressful and suffering inducing. For me positive attention only reinforces the stress and inadequacy. I recognize that a lot of this is sour grapes and venting of my own pain, I'm just trying to best express what is coming up for me. I think maybe I'll just leave it up to the women to approach me and ask me out if they have any interest, I'm not interested in the game.
I’m also not good at approaching women, but I’ve learnt not to take myself too seriously. If you can see it all as playfulness, just an enjoyable side activity, then it becomes a lot more simple and less pressured. I’ve come to appreciate the role of the clown or sometimes mime, and I occasionally hang out being the buffoon, with children as well as with adults.
One thing I have noticed is that women very rarely approach men… it seems to be part of women’s psychological makeup to want to be desired, and part of that is wanting to be chased, especially for the more attractive ladies. So if you’re waiting for them to approach you, you may be waiting a long time. Why not seize the day, and ask a pretty lady out for a coffee? As a man in your forties or fifties it is very possible to have some nice experiences.
I asked an online lady friend the other day what she thought was the role of sex in life. She said it was communication, connection and pleasure. The idea of sex as solely for procreation or starting a family seems to be something of ancient times these days…
Gyms are definitely sexually-loaded environments. It’s not for nothing that the term ‘fit’ is often used as analogous for ‘sexually attractive’. I used to go to the gym regularly, to battle with my tendency to gain weight, and there was a time in my late 30’s when I had a decent amount of lean muscle and great cardiovascular health.
But I’ve had to admit that my body really wants to be about 30 kilograms overweight, regardless of what I put in it, and I don’t really have the kind of lifestyle to keep the weight off. Working as a software developer leads to a lot of time spent sitting behind computers.
For what it's worth, part of the reason my wife found me endearing when we first met was that I had ZERO game, so she knew that whatever she was feeling for me, she was not being manipulated into it. So much of relationships, I think, is about timing and where we are in our lives and where the other person is.
For me the problem with randomly fantasizing about this woman or that woman is the craving it creates. Even if it is mild, it starts to feel pervasive, and while in the moment it seems like a harmless little dopamine hit, I wonder if it is not harmful over time.
I believe this thought is attributed to the Buddha? "Do not overlook negative actions merely because they are small; however small a spark may be, it can burn down a haystack as big as a mountain."
Our minds will always more easily ski down the tracks that our past habituated actions have carved. Add hormones to this mix and a re-linking to memories of sunny skies and fresh powder conditions will predominate.
If we are lucky and committed enough in our practice, alternative possibilities to such karmic predispositions, within each moment, can present options that we wouldn't of otherwise considered.
Most though will repeatedly choose an old known cause of suffering over an unknown possibility of that suffering's cessation.
The other thing I found about gyms is that exercise and getting muscled tends to give the testosterone production a big push. So if you suddenly find your thoughts turning to women it may not be craving or the gym atmosphere, but perhaps simple biology. If you can find it in yourself to be gentle and kind with yourself about these things, so much the better…
I'm just going to keep moving, nothing intense or weight lifting. So I'm not too worried about that.
I've been away for a while with Thanksgiving weekend and a cold since. Its given me some insight. While I do have these tendencies in me, I'm sure its the energy in the gym that I'm taking on.
So what I'm taking away is that the craving for relationship is painful. Not that relationships are painful, that the craving and pursuit of it are. So I think I'm back to where I started with a bit more conviction, that the mindset needed to end up where some part of me longs to be isn't worth it.
I'm undecided whether I should stay open to the possibility should it knock, or put effort into letting it go entirely.