Some delusions that come from meditation
Vastmind
Memphis, TN Veteran
This is an off shoot from the Dao book review I did. In that book,(pg 43), Cloudwalking Owl writes:
The human mind is a very subtle and inventive thing, when we drive away the delusions we can see,
invisible ones will try to move and replace them.
Some of the delusions that come from meditation are:
An excessive love of peace and quiet, to the point of no longer being able to function around ordinary people.
An unwillingness to engage in society, to the point of refusing to work together for political issues, doing charitable work, or, being a useful member of the community.
A belief in the ultimate metaphysical importance of “spiritual things”: for example, believing that simply meditating for long periods of time makes the world a better place all by itself.
Becoming obsessed with teaching what you have learned through meditation to other people,
whether or not they are capable of, or even interested in, learning it.
Becoming addicted to altered states of consciousness and losing the ability to function in the world of ordinary people.
Comments
I think it is interesting that some enlightened beings are said to say that everything that comes from love is justified.
I think this is more an opinion about spirituality than fact. Like more a belief of how we should be in the world rather than a delusion.
Speaking for myself, my experience is that people have a hard time being around me more than I do them because I don't fit the mold. Occasionally I'll find myself at a party and get in a conversation, everyone is in an excited sort of mood and then the vibe settles down and it gets weird.
Sure, yeah we are always tied in with society and its important to give back. During Buddha's time he had his monks go to society to collect alms and offer teachings.
"All by itself" does a lot of work here. Doing spiritual work is like filling the cup, creating a place from which to operate. Not sure how many people have been to a monastery that radiates peace, where the feeling is palpable? My view is that these sorts of places are important to spread the value of spirituality.
Yep, its important to meet people where they are. I think about planting seeds or offering information that may help move someone one inch closer to a healthy life than convincing them right now to drop everything and become a monk. To walk a spiritual path people need to come to it of their own accord through understanding or hope. By letting our own light shine we give others permission to do the same. And social effects transfer not only to people we directly interact with, studies of this effect show it passes as much as twice more, three degrees of separation. By offering our own drop and through the collective effort of others walking a spiritual path an impact is made.
Addicted, what does that mean in this scenario? Is a hermit addicted to spirituality? It doesn't seem like enlightenment is a thing in the author's world. A difference in metaphysical world view about what is and how it all works. Like a monastery radiating peace, I've met spiritual teachers who do the same. These sorts of beings impact the world in a positive way that the kind person working at a food shelter doesn't.
@Vastmind:
You are correct. Life is balance or more often, the attempts to create and maintain balance. I find myself in not so much an altered state as an enhanced state. A "Heightened Awareness" without being firmly grounded is delusion. Thus does an altered state, become illusion. When meditation become escape, it is no longer purposeful. It becomes the goal, the purpose for it's own sake. That leads to delusion,arrogance false awareness, frustration, and burnout.
Approach any endeavor the must be approached with a fresh, open mind. No matter the form of meditation , be it silent, walking or chanting . Instead of "Clearing our minds of thought or desires", we should endeavor clear our minds of clutter, or at least mute them. The random thoughts and monkey mind will come and go. The focus should remain on the purpose, the reason of our activity. And give ourselves grace. No one is perfect. Everyone, even the "Masters" slip from time to time. When we slip, step off the path fall down, we get back up, get back on the path and take the next step. Remember, when you fall, you are still advancing - falling forward.
Peace to all
This made me think of how I thought about arhats vs bodhisattvas when I got into the path and was forming my views. The arhat turns away from the world while the bodhisattva turns towards the world. They both pursue liberation, the path of the Buddha takes so much longer because they encompass the whole world within their spirituality.
Here is some Tao/Dao from the past...
https://peace.fandom.com/wiki/Not_One_Not_Two
https://www.liberalcurrents.com/we-need-to-talk-about-pedocon-theory/
Blah, blah, blah? ~ Greta Thunberg
^^^^
Damn Lobs, could you at least put/move that in members only!?!? Please not on my meditation thread. Thanks.
ETA: I flagged it and asked for it to be moved.
Sorry, really was not sure where to put it to meditate on. Somewhere where it won't be seen is fine with me... I will leave for the moderators to decide.
I tries to be good
I’m not trying to stifle you…it can be seen. That was just my suggestion to get it off a thread that I started that’s very seen. What a scene!
I’m also just trying to be good. 😬 …..remember where I work? ( no comments from the peanut gallery)
🥸
Can you list the enlightened beings who have said that?
They both pursue liberation, the path of the Buddha takes so much longer because they encompass the whole world within their spirituality (Emphasis mine).
No, Compassion, not spirituality.
That's a different word, but I'm not sure it makes a meaningful point. The arhat doesn't pursue compassion whereas the bodhisattva does. So the thing they share is their spirituality of liberation, the distinction is that the bodhisattva encompasses the world. That's fair to call it compassion, because that's what it is. From another angle, the Christian working at the homeless shelter is motivated by compassion as is the hermit pursuing Buddhahood for the world, the difference is in their spirituality.
the difference is in their spirituality.
I think we have a problem -
define "spirituality"?
This is the dictionary.com definition.
But I suppose I mean the types of practices and goals, probably the specific metaphysics too.
I guess its an ill defined word, so plug my definition into the statement to hopefully make it clearer.
From another angle, the Christian working at the homeless shelter is motivated by compassion as is the hermit pursuing Buddhahood for the world, the difference is in their "types of practices, goals and metaphysics regarding a path of development concerned with the human spirit or soul."
Dude.
Your explanation does clear things up, now, but how in the hell was I supposed to know that? Your definition is only tangentially related to a textbook definition. And you use the word, your way, apparently thinking everyone here is a frikkin mind reader and will know what you're actually talking about.
Sorry if I'm being a little cranky, but I missed 4:20. Lucky for me it's 4:20 everywhere. So I'm outta here.
But dude, don't take words and give them a new meaning. Call it the "material culture of spirituality".
I think you are being a bit too critical. I really don't see that the way I was using it was so far off any sort of common understanding. What do you think of when you think spirituality?
A quality.
The greatest delusion born of meditation is believing oneself enlightened.
...And "I" should know
My reaction is that changing the wording from 'delusions that arise from meditation' to 'delusions that may arise from meditation' makes the statement true.
I’ll give you that one.
Based on my experience, I’m gonna change it to
‘delusions that seem to be common that may arise from meditation’ 😜
Fair enough and thank you 😁🤗
My comment is based on being very well-acquainted with the story of only one long-time meditator (Bob Harwood), for whom items 1-4 definitely did not arise, while 5 and 6 definitely did, although for only something like half a year.
@Shoshin1 said:
Tee Hee!
One of the great things about science, The Path, mysticism and the internal arts, psychology and other soft science is: [drum roll]
It changes! (you knew right?)
Delusions melt. New Insights turn everything downside up and sideways, opposite.
Oh the inhumanity (and Humanity)