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Liberation for all sentient beings
Tavs
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Can you help liberate other sentient beings when you have not finished working on one's self?
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Maybe not liberate, but I think you could help get them to where you are.
One of the categorizations of Buddhism talks about 3 types of Bodhisattva, king like, shepherd like and ferryman like. King like gets to enlightenment first then brings people along, Amitaba Buddha is the archetype. Shepherd like brings other to enlightenment before oneself, Avalokiteshvara is the archetype. Ferryman brings others along with oneself, not sure of which Buddha/bodhisattva is this kind.
With certainty, no. But then it is very difficult to place another beings feet on the spiritual path. The most you can do is drop occasional hints, fingers pointing to the moon. And hope that someone will be receptive.
It reminds me of a story… Ram Dass and his guru Neem Karoli Baba were handing out photographs of the Baba, and Ram Dass noticed that his master seemed to be picking out all kinds of people of low prospects in life. He said, “How can you give your photograph to such low-lives?” Neem Karoli Babs replied, “if they can feel, even for a moment, that they too could be a great sadhu, a spiritual man, then that would be a very good thing. If just one in a hundred is inspired by the photograph to change his life, it will have served it’s purpose.”
Sometimes, guidance on the path arrives in unexpected forms.
One may even learn profound lessons from the mistakes of others.
Even if a practitioner is not yet enlightened, they can still guide others who are just beginning the path. The teachings may not be flawless, but sincere effort and intention still plant the seeds of understanding. In time, newcomers find their own footing, and sometimes, the imperfect teacher learns just as much through the act of teaching.
As an old Indian sage once said, “If you don’t feel that you are enlightened, you can always try to be.”
No.
(also when 'Finish' arrives, that is a 'good start')
🙂
As you may have read, beginners mind is as close as you will get at the start, in the middle and at the end.
If you have not read that. You have now.
The End
https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=34092&sid=ec181e2d7c227c21c27b18304534c6c4
If the question is whether it is possible to fully liberate a.k.a. enlighten another when personally not there, I think it's a resounding no.
If the question is whether it is possible to help move someone towards liberation a.k.a. enlightenment by helping remove an obstacle or establish a positive, while one has actually-factually embodied the thing in question, I think it's a resounding yes.
In both cases, I think that skillful means are required, it's not easy, and can backfire if being unskilful or if not actually-factually 'there' yourself.
Help liberate? Of course.
Many, perhaps most, elite athletes are helped by coaches. The athletes are much further along the path to athletic greatness than the coaches are, but the help provided by the coaches is critically important, probably indispensable.
As I accumulate life lessons and inspirations, my de facto teachers are many and varied. Probably few have achieved spiritual greatness, whatever we think that might be, but my learning isn’t dependent on what they’ve finished achieving themselves.
Hmm, if you haven’t yourself worked out that facet of the path, it is difficult to embody it for someone else. I think the example of elite athletes and coaches doesn’t really hold in the example of enlightenment, with the path to enlightenment you have to be able to verify that your path does in fact lead to spiritual enlightenment, while a coach can verify that his methods work when an athlete runs the 400m a bit faster.
There’s no quick, easy answer to this. It can depend on the school/sect you are following.
For example, this is a general Mahayana approach, with some reading references attached, but you’ll notice they mention the Tibetan approach as well. From my experience, there’s some reading involved in learning not only the basics of Buddhism, but also where the schools branched off and where there are some different approaches and ways and lanes, many being culturally different and influenced.
What Are The Five Buddhist Paths to Liberation?
https://mindworks.org/blog/what-are-the-five-buddhist-paths-to-liberation/
https://www.ourbuddhismworld.com/archives/1775
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/492/a-short-history-of-the-buddhist-schools/
When you do some reading…or not…What do you think? Do YOU think you could help liberate
Someone else without “finishing”? How do you feel about someone thinking they could help
Liberate you without “finishing”?
Can you teach non-attachment to views if you are attached to views?
I don't know about that but I do think we can do virtuous things for each other. What is sangha for if that is not the case?
Yes, indeed.
Our actions speak louder than words.
Vastmind I think sometimes positive actions can help to point people in the right direction, often unintentionally.