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I find the differences in pronunciation of mantras rather delightful. It's like chatting with my friends from the Subcontinent: we make fun of each others' way of speaking English but all agree that we can understand each other.
The point, really, is that there is no "one" 'out there' to judge how well or badly we pronounce the words. It's not like getting the words of consecration or the suras of the Q'ran wrong: not magical formulae, although the texts often suggest that they are.
The True Sound of Truth
An old story speaks about a similar problem. A devoted meditator, after years concentrating on a particular mantra, had attained enough insight to begin teaching. The student's humility was far from perfect, but the teachers at the monastery were not worried.
A few years of successful teaching left the meditator with no thoughts about learning from anyone; but upon hearing about a famous hermit living nearby, the opportunity was too exciting to be passed up.
The hermit lived alone on an island at the middle of a lake, so the meditator hired a man with a boat to row across to the island. The meditator was very respectful of the old hermit. As they shared some tea made with herbs the meditator asked him about his spiritual practice. The old man said he had no spiritual practice, except for a mantra which he repeated all the time to himself. The meditator was pleased: the hermit was using the same mantra he used himself -- but when the hermit spoke the mantra aloud, the meditator was horrified!
"What's wrong?" asked the hermit.
"I don't know what to say. I'm afraid you've wasted your whole life! You are pronouncing the mantra incorrectly!"
"Oh, Dear! That is terrible. How should I say it?"
The meditator gave the correct pronunciation, and the old hermit was very grateful, asking to be left alone so he could get started right away. On the way back across the lake the meditator, now confirmed as an accomplished teacher, was pondering the sad fate of the hermit.
"It's so fortunate that I came along. At least he will have a little time to practice correctly before he dies." Just then, the meditator noticed that the boatman was looking quite shocked, and turned to see the hermit standing respectfully on the water, next to the boat.
"Excuse me, please. I hate to bother you, but I've forgotten the correct pronunciation again. Would you please repeat it for me?"
"You obviously don't need it," stammered the meditator; but the old man persisted in his polite request until the meditator relented and told him again the way he thought the mantra should be pronounced.
The old hermit was saying the mantra very carefully, slowly, over and over, as he walked across the surface of the water back to the island.
It is a good story. I've heard it before. It demonstrates that proper pronunciation isn't everything! For someone who has accomplished realization, all sounds are mantra, and in fact that is the proper way to practice.
I'm a tea addict as well. Especially "green spring snail" (bi luo chun) and "dragon well" (long jing). Well, the higher-grade fakes of those teas anyway! I can't afford the real certified stuff.
Hello Melybu. I am a tea addict too, after many years of coffee dependency. I am hooked on Twining's "Lady Grey", but only because, when I start drinking Lapsang, I become a chain-drinker!
Tea? Tea? Don't want to sound "addict-er than thou" but Federica will tell you how awfully attached I am to my tea - never go on a journey without a thermos and have a teapot warming on the stove all day so any minute I can make a fresh one.
Anything very good or very bad happens here it's - Ooooh cup of tea time!
Welcome, Melybu. Unfortunately I'm not much of a tea drinker. A little green tea now and then, maybe an iced tea if I go out to eat, but that's about it. But then I'm just a crass colonial...
Melybu, and Knitwitch, I would love to join you for a warm cup sometime. Tea is one of my joys in life. Nothing like a good cup after a field problem to help me relax.
Try buying in Chinatown! Usually it's affordable there. The only problem is, if you find one you really like, but you can't read the labels, you might spend the next 6 years looking for your tea again!
Unfortunately I'm not much of a tea drinker. A little green tea now and then, maybe an iced tea if I go out to eat, but that's about it. But then I'm just a crass colonial...
Try it without the rancid yak butter! (I don't understand Tibetan tea :scratch:)
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2008
I love tibetan tea... But mind you, I have never made it with rancid Dri butter (the Yak is the male....) I make mine with Ghee, which is Indian clarified butter. I use goat's butter to make it with.
But I love it.... Especially with my tsampa flour.....
Try buying in Chinatown! Usually it's affordable there. The only problem is, if you find one you really like, but you can't read the labels, you might spend the next 6 years looking for your tea again!
I have a "Koreatown" but that's a good idea! I bet I could find some tea at the Farmers Market.
'Tibetan Butter tea'. With Ghee
I've never heard of tea and butter. Sounds yummy by the recipe though.
ok, we have the tea covered. Who's bringing the biscuits/cookies? LOL.
Fede, I removed your 3 recipes and posted the first on the main page. The other two are saved as drafts for this week. Great stuff! It gives the front page a wonderful start.
It is a good story. I've heard it before. It demonstrates that proper pronunciation isn't everything! For someone who has accomplished realization, all sounds are mantra, and in fact that is the proper way to practice.
Palzang
Something about saying any mantra has puzzled me...how fast should one say it? I mean if you have a mala-full of mantras to say, a longish one can take ages. Not that I'm in a hurry, mind, but I just wondered how fast you'd do it if you had 100,000 to do. :eek:
Rather like a rapid Catholic saying the rosary when it comes out like a chainsaw!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2008
You don't have to do it all at once... you can do some recitations, then clip a marker along the string to denote your place... there are also counters available to help you remember how many circuit laps you've done.... (I sound like Lewis Hamilton.... Rrrrrroooarrrrrr!!)
Yes, I think it's better to say it fully and at a reasonable pace. Say it too fast it becomes meaningless (to me, anyway.). I've got some counter thingys on my mala. Thanks!
I find it comes faster naturally as you get more familiar with the mantra. When I was finishing my Vajrasattva accumulations (the 100 syllable mantra), I could do a mala every 15 minutes or so, which is really cooking. So it's just repetition makes you faster, I think.
Blimey, that's good going! Maybe sometime I'll find familiarity easing the way.
I don't know many mantras and apart from the Om Mani Padme Hum, I stumble over the words and probably pronounce them wrongly too. But never mind...it's the thought that counts. I hope. (I have an abiding image of some benevolent being tutting and looking skyward every time I get it wrong. LOL!)
Awww come on - if a two year old runs up to you and throws their arms around you to say "I wuvs oo" do you correct the pronunciation or just melt? huh,
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2008
(It depends... is she covered in chocolate blancmange or mud.....?) :eek:
Hi there (again). I am not technically new, but I feel new or renewed, so I wanted to post and start somewhere. Introductions seemed as good a place as any.
I have decided to make this site more of a home so I hope to be around more and get to know you all better.
My previous intro is buried back there somewhere. I will just say that I am here. I love to discuss things. Looking forward to it.
Hi there (again). I am not technically new, but I feel new or renewed, so I wanted to post and start somewhere. Introductions seemed as good a place as any.
I have decided to make this site more of a home so I hope to be around more and get to know you all better.
My previous intro is buried back there somewhere. I will just say that I am here. I love to discuss things. Looking forward to it.
Hey i realised that i never did tell you all about myself so here it is
Screen Name:Chuckness Real Name:Charles
Age: 14 Zodiac sign:sagittarius
Chinese Zodiac: Chicken (cock) Sex:Male
Location: Salt Lake City, UT. Born:Sacramento, CA. Likes: Food Dislikes: Non-food Religous Identification: Buddhist Tradition/School:N/A
Favorite band: Opeth/Tool Favorite food: The kind you eat Favorite movie: The Departed Favorite book: The Bible
Well How de do and good to know more about you Charles.
Glad you decided to stick around - we are usually a very friendly lot here and would hate to see someone disappear just because a bit of foot in mouth problem (I suffer from that quite often)
Well, Chuck, I'm glad that someone else here shares my like of food! Just give it to me, and I'll eat it! (as long as it's not Brussel sprouts, of course, though I'm not sure those even count as food!)
Not new, but I haven't been on in over six months. Thought I'd say hullo again. Since I was here last, I've moved homes, moved schools, started my own brand new department at the brand new school, directed my first play by myself, gardened, played, and had a new baby. Woah.
I haven't made a whole lot of time for study, but practice is practice in a day to day way. We'll see what is new in my head.
Comments
I find the differences in pronunciation of mantras rather delightful. It's like chatting with my friends from the Subcontinent: we make fun of each others' way of speaking English but all agree that we can understand each other.
The point, really, is that there is no "one" 'out there' to judge how well or badly we pronounce the words. It's not like getting the words of consecration or the suras of the Q'ran wrong: not magical formulae, although the texts often suggest that they are.
Well, there you go!
Palzang
The True Sound of Truth
An old story speaks about a similar problem. A devoted meditator, after years concentrating on a particular mantra, had attained enough insight to begin teaching. The student's humility was far from perfect, but the teachers at the monastery were not worried.
A few years of successful teaching left the meditator with no thoughts about learning from anyone; but upon hearing about a famous hermit living nearby, the opportunity was too exciting to be passed up.
The hermit lived alone on an island at the middle of a lake, so the meditator hired a man with a boat to row across to the island. The meditator was very respectful of the old hermit. As they shared some tea made with herbs the meditator asked him about his spiritual practice. The old man said he had no spiritual practice, except for a mantra which he repeated all the time to himself. The meditator was pleased: the hermit was using the same mantra he used himself -- but when the hermit spoke the mantra aloud, the meditator was horrified!
"What's wrong?" asked the hermit.
"I don't know what to say. I'm afraid you've wasted your whole life! You are pronouncing the mantra incorrectly!"
"Oh, Dear! That is terrible. How should I say it?"
The meditator gave the correct pronunciation, and the old hermit was very grateful, asking to be left alone so he could get started right away. On the way back across the lake the meditator, now confirmed as an accomplished teacher, was pondering the sad fate of the hermit.
"It's so fortunate that I came along. At least he will have a little time to practice correctly before he dies." Just then, the meditator noticed that the boatman was looking quite shocked, and turned to see the hermit standing respectfully on the water, next to the boat.
"Excuse me, please. I hate to bother you, but I've forgotten the correct pronunciation again. Would you please repeat it for me?"
"You obviously don't need it," stammered the meditator; but the old man persisted in his polite request until the meditator relented and told him again the way he thought the mantra should be pronounced.
The old hermit was saying the mantra very carefully, slowly, over and over, as he walked across the surface of the water back to the island.
Palzang
Cup of tea?
I'm a tea addict as well. Especially "green spring snail" (bi luo chun) and "dragon well" (long jing). Well, the higher-grade fakes of those teas anyway! I can't afford the real certified stuff.
And makes a mess of the sink! :rolleyesc
Anything very good or very bad happens here it's - Ooooh cup of tea time!
Palzang
Try buying in Chinatown! Usually it's affordable there. The only problem is, if you find one you really like, but you can't read the labels, you might spend the next 6 years looking for your tea again!
Try it without the rancid yak butter! (I don't understand Tibetan tea :scratch:)
But I love it.... Especially with my tsampa flour.....
Palzang
In fact, that would make a great mini-article for the new front page
Welcome to the site MelyBu
Palzang
I have a "Koreatown"
I've never heard of tea and butter. Sounds yummy by the recipe though.
ok, we have the tea covered. Who's bringing the biscuits/cookies? LOL.
Something about saying any mantra has puzzled me...how fast should one say it? I mean if you have a mala-full of mantras to say, a longish one can take ages. Not that I'm in a hurry, mind, but I just wondered how fast you'd do it if you had 100,000 to do. :eek:
Palzang
I don't know many mantras and apart from the Om Mani Padme Hum, I stumble over the words and probably pronounce them wrongly too. But never mind...it's the thought that counts. I hope. (I have an abiding image of some benevolent being tutting and looking skyward every time I get it wrong. LOL!)
I have decided to make this site more of a home so I hope to be around more and get to know you all better.
My previous intro is buried back there somewhere. I will just say that I am here. I love to discuss things. Looking forward to it.
I have decided to make this site more of a home so I hope to be around more and get to know you all better.
My previous intro is buried back there somewhere. I will just say that I am here. I love to discuss things. Looking forward to it.
Screen Name: Chuckness
Real Name: Charles
Age: 14
Zodiac sign: sagittarius
Chinese Zodiac: Chicken (cock)
Sex: Male
Location: Salt Lake City, UT.
Born: Sacramento, CA.
Likes: Food
Dislikes: Non-food
Religous Identification: Buddhist
Tradition/School: N/A
Favorite band: Opeth/Tool
Favorite food: The kind you eat
Favorite movie: The Departed
Favorite book: The Bible
Glad you decided to stick around - we are usually a very friendly lot here and would hate to see someone disappear just because a bit of foot in mouth problem (I suffer from that quite often)
My condolences on living in Salt Lake...
Palzang
To assuage my own mind given your age, I removed some of the physical description of yourself since this is very public thread.
Glad to have you here!
Quite so.....
I haven't made a whole lot of time for study, but practice is practice in a day to day way. We'll see what is new in my head.