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The world and the sense it makes.

CittaCitta Veteran
edited October 2012 in Philosophy
" The kind of sense the world makes is immediate and spontaneous....but only if we let go of our obsessional preordained understanding. Each situation is ( then ) fresh and new..."
Ngak'chang Rinpoche.
Sile

Comments

  • musicmusic
    Isn't the world a random, chaotic place? We try to make sense of it, true.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    If I thought that I wouldn't waste my time on this forum.
    taiyaki
  • PrairieGhostPrairieGhost Veteran
    edited October 2012
    I think Citta means that the randomness and chaos does make sense, in the way a beautifully crafted argument of individually meaningless sounds, and individually unedifying sentences, makes sense only when we have found the patience to allow the author to finish speaking.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited October 2012
    No Citta does not mean that.
    The world we perceive is the result of our karma and of Buddhadhatu. There is nothing random or chaotic about that.
    However as Ngak'chang Rinpoche says we do not need to make sense of it.
    If we allow it to, the world will make sense of us..because it is not random or chaotic.
    It is just as it is.
    I_AM_THAT
  • andyrobynandyrobyn Veteran
    edited October 2012
    I tend to agree with Citta in this one.
    For me it is a moot point ie. to ask and spend time and energy in trying to discern " is there a bigger picture - ? " when it is not possible to see it at this point in my experience - whether there there is or not will become obvious once I can see.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited October 2012
    So far in the last 24 hours music you have stated that the world is random and chaotic, that we are all hypocrites, and the Buddha was a pious fraud.
    I suspect music that you are beginning to look for the exit signs.
    Unless of course it is an exercise in Devil's Advocacy in which case it will get pretty old fairly quickly.
    MaryAnneperson
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    music said:

    Isn't the world a random, chaotic place? We try to make sense of it, true.

    The world is chaotic when we try to make sense of it. When we stop trying the chaos and confusion settles.

    Citta
  • PrairieGhostPrairieGhost Veteran
    edited October 2012
    No one is trying to make sense of anything. Freedom from speculation is recognising this.
    lobster
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    music said:

    Isn't the world a random, chaotic place? We try to make sense of it, true.

    I think not. For example, if I look at geologic and weather phenomenon, they're mostly rather orderly and predictable. Human behavior types are mostly identifiable, and to some extent predictable. And so forth.

  • SonghillSonghill Veteran
    Citta:
    " The kind of sense the world makes is immediate and spontaneous....but only if we let go of our obsessional preordained understanding. Each situation is ( then ) fresh and new..."
    Ngak'chang Rinpoche.
    Maybe this is a bad translation, but I think the Lama is saying that when we let go of our human filters, by which we make the absolute appear as our familiar human world, only then to we see reality as it really is.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited October 2012
    Its not a translation. Seems fairly self explanatory to me.
  • SonghillSonghill Veteran
    Citta:

    When a person let's go of all of their 'obsessional preordained understandings', what exactly do they see?
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Try it and tell us.
    VastmindJasonpersonlobster
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    Bwahaha. :lol:
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    Songhill said:

    When a person let's go of all of their 'obsessional preordained understandings', what exactly do they see?

    The same thing they saw before they let go of all their obsessional preordained understandings.
    taiyakilobster
  • lamaramadingdonglamaramadingdong Veteran
    Things are not as they seem. Nor are they otherwise.
    Jeffrey
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    Our brains are programmed to make sense of the world - even when there is none.

    Buddhism helps us live with that.
    Silelobsterstavros388
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    :cool: I can live with that.

    . . . probably without it too . . . ;)
  • musicmusic
    Life is an empty canvas. We can paint any picture we want - and that picture becomes our meaning. If there were a purpose intrinsic to life, then all of us would come to the same conclusion as regards this meaning. Evidently, we don't.
    lobster
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    I came late in life to this internet business. One cliche I learned early on that I have found useful is d.f.t.t. .....dont feed the troll.
    Of course what constitutes a troll may differ in different eyes, But I think I know one when I see one. My bag of food is being put firmly away.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    It's sometimes difficult to differentiate between a troll and a weird person.
    Zero
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Thats easy....I'm a weird person.
    But I dont log on to Hindu/Christian/humanist etc websites repeatedly to tell them that they are fools. That would be trolling. And anyway I dont think they are fools.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    No need to state the obvious, Citta! :lol:
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    @citta - noone called you a fool on this thread?
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    If there is no ultimate purpose in life...if Buddhadharma " is just a distraction like going to the movies " if we would drop it " if we won the lottery " then we are all fools.... all wasting our time.
    Personally I am quite happy to be a fool. But I would not log in repeatedly to tell others that they are wasting their time...even if i thought they were.
    Which I dont. I think we are engaged in the only game worth playing.
    Capice ?
  • musicmusic
    I apologize if I hurt anyone. I have various neurological disorders, and it is not easy. I am an aspie with OCD and ADHD.
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    Yes, I understand your point.

    Opinions are wonderful - everyone has one and sometimes (often!) they don't converge all that well.

    A seemingly 'foolish' point, I've found, may drive as many wise responses as a 'wise' point - it rarely hurts to revisit tried and tested wisdom! It's also useful having points that may seem clear cut to some but not to others - this way, the debate can roam a slightly broader range and possibly cater for the 'unasked' questions.

    Weak causation between the suggested posts and saying 'you are a fool and wasting your time'... someone articulating their confusion does not take anything away from one's effort... unless one personally requires positive encouragement from a third party.

    I see it like this - some bloke comes up to me and says 'Youre a fool and wasting your time'... my response is 'yes yes yes absolutely!!!'... now spend time with me to observe the effect of my foolishness and how I waste my time... at the very least you'll see a different way of life and outlook - perhaps then we will look less foolish to each other - and if not, so what... someone thinks I'm a fool... he's not alone... (I, like you, agree with the sentiment!)... welcome to the party!
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    @music - personally, you didn't hurt me in any way whatsoever... if anything I've read your posts with interest and you bring your own unique dimension to the show... keep on it mate - we're all learning on the job, so to speak!
    Jeffreymusic
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