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How To Practice The Right View
Namaste
My name is Lejon and I'm here because I'm in need of help from those who know more than me about The Noble Eightfold Path.
I now want to start following the right view and learn what I need about the right view to understand it correctly and to be able to follow it correctly. As far as I know the right view is where to start but of course I would later on learn all I need to know about right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration. I will start with the right view as I understand that The Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama) said it was the way to go because you will then get the right view of the rest of the path.
I'm not new to buddhism but I guess I can say that I'm new to following buddhism. Since about 10 years back I have been interested in buddhism and I have since then read a lot and learned a lot and I think I have a pretty good idea of what buddhism realy is and I think buddhism is the most advanced and realistic teaching/religion/faith in the world today.
I want to start with The Noble Eightfold Path but what I also would like to do is to meditate and go as far as the Jhanas when I'm ready for that, it has been a dream since about 4 years back now. So before I ask any questions about meditation I will ask you about the right view and how I should think in right view, I also want to know any good texts that I can read. I ask only one thing though about the information I will recieve, I ask it to be as close to The Buddhas own words as possible, I guess it's the Pali Canon, it can't get any closer than that, right? So it's fair to say that I'm interesting in Theravada Buddhism, the way The Buddha tought it or at least as close as possible.
That's a little about why I'm here.
I ask for help about "The Right View". What do I do to understand and follow "The Right View"? What do I read for texts about it? Is there any good guidelines? I have read some about it but that is more explanations of what it is and not how to use it in real life, I haven't found any good step by step texts on how to practice it. I really would like to learn a easy and understandable way on how to practice it in everyday life. It's like I'm tought how a apple tree feels like, look like, what kind of fruits it produces and all the good things it brings BUT it don't teach me how to plant it, take care of it, produce the fruits and how to eat the fruits. That is what I want to learn now, I think I have a pretty good idea of how good it is, I need instructions on how to use it. I do not live in a sangha but I live a almost holy life compared to the avarage citizen of the world of today. From today and for the rest of this year I will not have any sex, not lie, not steal, not drink alcohol or use any drugs, not use bad words, not talk loud and a lot of other things and after this year I will make some changes but I don't know what yet. I will also use white clothes whenever I do not work or exercise. I take care of my body very well and I do some kind of exercise everyday and I have to eat according to that but I try to do all I do in the best way possible and always looking for better ways to do it. There is many things that limit my options at the moment but I do the best I can with the options I have right now.
I hope I have made my self understandable, I will answer any question about this so just ask if anything is unclear.
Basicly what I'm asking for is a step by step list or guidlines on how to implement The Right View in everyday "modern" life.
I'm gratefull for all help I can get!
Namaste
My name is Lejon and I'm here because I'm in need of help from those who know more than me about The Noble Eightfold Path.
I now want to start following the right view and learn what I need about the right view to understand it correctly and to be able to follow it correctly. As far as I know the right view is where to start but of course I would later on learn all I need to know about right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration. I will start with the right view as I understand that The Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama) said it was the way to go because you will then get the right view of the rest of the path.
I'm not new to buddhism but I guess I can say that I'm new to following buddhism. Since about 10 years back I have been interested in buddhism and I have since then read a lot and learned a lot and I think I have a pretty good idea of what buddhism realy is and I think buddhism is the most advanced and realistic teaching/religion/faith in the world today.
I want to start with The Noble Eightfold Path but what I also would like to do is to meditate and go as far as the Jhanas when I'm ready for that, it has been a dream since about 4 years back now. So before I ask any questions about meditation I will ask you about the right view and how I should think in right view, I also want to know any good texts that I can read. I ask only one thing though about the information I will recieve, I ask it to be as close to The Buddhas own words as possible, I guess it's the Pali Canon, it can't get any closer than that, right? So it's fair to say that I'm interesting in Theravada Buddhism, the way The Buddha tought it or at least as close as possible.
That's a little about why I'm here.
I ask for help about "The Right View". What do I do to understand and follow "The Right View"? What do I read for texts about it? Is there any good guidelines? I have read some about it but that is more explanations of what it is and not how to use it in real life, I haven't found any good step by step texts on how to practice it. I really would like to learn a easy and understandable way on how to practice it in everyday life. It's like I'm tought how a apple tree feels like, look like, what kind of fruits it produces and all the good things it brings BUT it don't teach me how to plant it, take care of it, produce the fruits and how to eat the fruits. That is what I want to learn now, I think I have a pretty good idea of how good it is, I need instructions on how to use it. I do not live in a sangha but I live a almost holy life compared to the avarage citizen of the world of today. From today and for the rest of this year I will not have any sex, not lie, not steal, not drink alcohol or use any drugs, not use bad words, not talk loud and a lot of other things and after this year I will make some changes but I don't know what yet. I will also use white clothes whenever I do not work or exercise. I take care of my body very well and I do some kind of exercise everyday and I have to eat according to that but I try to do all I do in the best way possible and always looking for better ways to do it. There is many things that limit my options at the moment but I do the best I can with the options I have right now.
I hope I have made my self understandable, I will answer any question about this so just ask if anything is unclear.
Basicly what I'm asking for is a step by step list or guidlines on how to implement The Right View in everyday "modern" life.
I'm gratefull for all help I can get!
Namaste
1
Comments
Bravo. You already have right but a little uptight view.
http://portal.in.th/i-dhamma/pages/8905/
“Do everything with a mind that lets go. Don’t accept praise or gain or anything else. If you let go a little you a will have a little peace; if you let go a lot you will have a lot of peace; if you let go completely you will have complete peace. ”
― Ajahn Chah
http://blpusa.com/category/buddhism-in-every-step/page/5
:wave:
Bhikkhu Bodhi says that So although we can sort of cultivate each separately, they are all intertwined and rely on development of the others in some way. That is to say, we can't just cultivate Right View without having also cultivated another.
Anyways, as you may know, Right View is dependent on understanding the law of kamma (not really knowing how it works, but rather the principles behind it) and the three marks of existence.
How do we develop this? To me, it seems that it's all well and good to read about it and understand these concepts as theory, but to really understand them, I think we need to be able to see them in action. Meditation is a good place for learning the nature of the three marks of existence. But for meditation, we need to input Right Concentration and Right Effort.
See where I'm going with this?
I will from now on not seek any direct order of thing I will do what I feel is right and let things come to me as my God send them to me. Thanks for helping me on my way of a better life!
To all:
Namaste
Nice to see of your interest in developing yourself.
My understanding is like this:
Right view is not an intellectual idea. It's not a text you read and take as a truth. Right view is a result of the practice, a feeling that arises from seeing things as they are.
In a way you may already have a beginning of right view. How would you feel about hurting a living being? Probably not so good. That's because you have right view about it, it's like a feeling. You don't explain it with a thought. This is what it means to have right view. Hurting living beings is as we say "unwholesome", which simply means it doesn't lead to our long term happiness, or the happiness of others.
There are a lot of unwholesome things we can do, but luckily also many wholesome things and neutral things. Exactly what is what, is what we find out during the practice. If you can separate all the wholesome from the unwholesome, in all actions, you can really say you have right view. But this is not so easy, because it also includes very subtle states of mind. That's why you can only really find right view inside yourself. Yes, you can read texts, but they won't provide the answer.
So to learn all of that, takes time. It's a process. It needs experience. Also experience of meditation, because in meditation you can really start to see which subtle changes of mind lead to peace, and which lead to stress. So the more you understand, the easier meditation will also be, and the better you will act in daily life. The eight factors of the path go together. A bird can't fly with two wings, and we can't practice the path without using all factors. Yes, they are given in an order for a reason, but you should use them all.
With kindness,
Sabre
The five hindrances: sloth, agitation, craving, regret, ill-will
-------------------------
the five indiryas: smirti (aware and spacious), virya (energy), samadhi (concentration), prajna (insight), sradda (conviction and embodying teachings = just do it??)
smirti - open
virya and samadhi balance - clarity
prajna and sradda balance - sensitivity
---------------------------
the three marks = impermanence, dukkha, non-self
-------------------------
The four noble truths
Rigdzin Shikpo wrote a good book on 4 NT called Never Turn Away with a less traditional presentation designed for sacred warriors and westerners.
So, I really need help if Im going to start meditate. I really want to meditate, I really want to get a strong mind with excellent concentration abillities and all the other things it brings. But how? I'm clueless in this jungle of information about meditation.
My life has changed a lot since the last time I tried to meditate so maybe now I'm more open and ready for it. I would like to know if here is anyone on newbuddhist.com that is able to attain Jhanas? This is where I want my meditation practice to lead, if a meditation practice do not lead to Jhana then that is not a practice for me, I need a practice that eventually will lead to absorbtion, that is for me a proof that you have well developed concentration so that is my goal with meditaton. All other fruits it brings is well appreciated too.
Is here anyone who can attain Jhana with relative ease?
I actually read on wikipedia (which is not always the best source) that in order to contemplate the four noble truths properly, you have to attain jhana first.
Do you have a Theravadin Sangha near you? If you do maybe you should go there and get your meditation practice off the ground.
I have a book called "Buddha, his life and teachings. Suffering in this book may be a bad translation of Dukkha. I'd like to point that out.
FIRST STEP
"What, now, is Right Understanding? It is undersatnding the Four Truths. To understand suffering; to understand the origin of suffering; to understand the extinction of suffering; to understand the path that leads to the extinction of suffering: This is called Right Understanding.
Or, when the noble disciple understands what is karmically wholesome, and the root of wholesome karma; what is karmically unwholesome, and the root of unwholesome karma, then he has Right Understanding."
This sounds like not wanting to go to school unless you can be assured that your kindergarten is good enough to lead you into becoming the brain surgeon you always wanted to be. By stepping through the school doors you will learn what is right for you, just as it would be with opening yourself up to meditation but more mental mastication is not that next step.
Meditation is for the loosening of attachments (including those to spiritual abilities), not for solidifying them.
& because of that...
No one here who attains jhana with relative ease is likely to inform you of such abilities.
Jhana or something like it is necessary to practice the four noble truths as they arise in meditation, but it is not necessary for an intellectual understanding of how it works. For that, the best account I've found is Thanissaro's, but it is pretty heavy going for a beginner. Still, might be worth a look if you're interested in the practice of Right View.
Given your interests in developing yourself through meditation but not going all the way to enlightenment, I suggest you start with Theravada practice in order to develop skill in cultivating first jhana, then take the Bodhisattva vow in some Mahayana school with good insight practices.
I will let you know how it goes fiveballs...
Understood.
Please consider yoga asana, prostrations and walking meditation as a way of grounding the mind/body complex. These practices will settle and calm and perhaps in time allow sitting . . .
Buddhism and Yoga: Where the Paths Cross
http://www.shambhalasun.com/Archives/Features/2002/july02/paths.htm
Walking meditation
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/meditation.html
I'm interested in yoga and have looked for some different exercises to use in my morning stretching rutine, I have not found any good yoga rutine yet so for now I'm doing ordinary stretching but maybe this would be something for me?
Thanks!
About walking meditation
I stayed at a temple yearly last year and there we did walking meditation 1 hour before bed every night. Maybe this is something to pick up again.
But, I have also read that if you want to attain jhana then you will have to want it to come or else you wont know what it is and you will not know what to do when it comes and it will go away.
I have not yet attained jhana so I can not say how it is but I can not help to think that everyone who has attained jhana, did everyone not want jhana or there are people who wanted jhana before they attained it.
How should I think about it to not be craving it, maybe I am craving jhana or maybe I just feel like it's a goal that will make me know that I have good concentration. I don't know. If I do not want jhana then I would do meditatons that do not lead to jhana. This is something I think about a lot.
How exactly should I think about jhana before I attain it?
In buddhism there is "wholesome wish", that is more like a determination.
Example: I want to graduate from university. I know its my goal, but i dont have repetitive thoughts about it (Clinging), it doesnt even bother me.
U recognize "unwholesome wish" when u notice u are having repetitive thoughts and tightness in the mind/body (craving manifestation).
The anapanasati instructions say to put aside greed and distress with reference to the world. Greed and distress regarding spiritual progress is explicitly encouraged in the Pali sutras.
Thanissaro's The Paradox of Becoming outlines the role of intention and desire on the path in great detail.
@Lejon, I generally get that your lute strings are way too tight.
Lighten up. This is supposed to be fun. It's not a hard race which you must win at all costs or else.
The competition is only with yourself....
You are very welcome. In my experience, this is not true. Jhana (and all insight too) comes when the time is right. Not when we want it or think we need it. Because of delusion, we want the wrong things and we also seek insight in the wrong things. I find it generally much better to see what jhana is not. It is the absence of the hindrances: sense desire, aversion, restlessness, sleepiness, doubt - those things. If you understand and have seen (the way to) jhana, the desire for it may be not so much a problem. Because you know the way is of no desire. A desire for no desire is good. But if you have not seen, I assure you it will give rise to one or more of these hindrances, desire and mostly restlessness. The mind wants to get somewhere, attain something, and that keeps it from being at peace.
Let me end by saying the translation 'concentration' is not really the best. Because usually when we hear the word concentration, we think we have to force it. In jhana, it's not like that.
Also, let me be clear to you, there are a lot of different opinions on what is jhana and what is not. Some people claim some state to be jhana, while others say it is not (yet) jhana. Just to clarify some of the mixed responses you'll get.
The most important thing is, seek peace in meditation above anything else. It's peace you want, and if you aim for that, that's already much more skillful than aiming for "concentration". This fits well with the lute strings advise of @federica . Don't stress yourself. That'd be a shame.
Kindness,
Sabre
The Noble Eightfold path is not a guidance list in Chronological Order.
It is true that the "8 spokes* hinge on 3 factors:
Wisdom, Conduct and Concentration.
But no spoke is truly number one, and no spoke is truly number 8.
They are co-dependent and all work together to support the whole.
Therefore, Right View depends on Right Effort, and Right Concentration, just as Right Livelihood depends on Right Intention.... they all interact.
In order to get one right, you have to get them all right.
Thank you all! I have so much new information from all of you today. I really appreciate it!
If you want to disagree on the definition of jhana and say what I'm talking about is not real jhana, I don't really care what we call it, though your claims at odds with the instructions for and description of first jhana in the anapanasati sutra. (See for instance the bathman simile I quoted above, which involves a self engaged in the goal-oriented behavior of spreading pleasure throughout the body.) The important thing from my perspective is that in my experience, the method I am proposing leads to good results in line with @Lejon's stated goals.
(By the way, the anapanasati sutta makes no mention of jhana explicitly)
With metta,
Sabre
Some other shorter discussions of his on the same topic:
The Agendas of Mindfulness: Choiceful Awareness
We're discussing the OP's questions, here.
Thanks!
I've been reading a lot of meditation-related material lately and it's been quite overwhelming. But when I take a break for a few days and just do other things and sit more instead of reading about sitting, I feel like I have a better progression in my understanding of the Dhamma.
Still you are absolutely right if your aim is jhana to ask some people who know about that. I am just saying it cannot be enlightenment because it is an EXPERIENCE and not the nature of the mind itself.
I have created my own religion and I have a God but this was born through buddhism, maybe in a way that buddhism was born through hinduism. I will use the good thing in buddhism that will help me to achive my goals in my "teachings", to be a strong, healthy, longliving, loving and respectfull human being.
One of my mottos:
"Love n' Respect Everything"
If I start to teach my teachings to other people, the first thing I'm going to teach them is to attain jhana and when they can attain jhana then their minds are ready to be tought and understand the rest. So I do not crave jhana as an escape from reality but as a tool to use on my path to be a better human being with greater understanding.
My way is to be stronger and to live a life with suffering and the buddhist way is to end all suffering. It's 2 different ways and I think that none of them is wrong, but I do think that these 2 are the best ways we can choose to live our lifes.
I think of The Buddha's way as the Monk's way. I think of my way as the Warrior's way. It's all up to what you want in life. Who knows, maybe I end up as a monk in old age but until then I choose the warriors way. In any case, buddhism will always be my friend and rolemodel, there is no other religion, teaching or faith I turn to for guidence.
Jhanas arise naturally in a sincere meditative practise. Most monks are reticent to make much of a deal about them because their hands are already full of students seeking something graspable in a practise which is really about letting go of such grasping.
To just focus on absorption or concentration is to ignore some of the most fundamental Buddhist teachings on the importance of balancing them with the other spokes of the 8FP. That is why right concentration is not portrayed as a pillar or a staff but just as one spoke of eight that makes a balanced wheel.
I would have spoken this same way if anyone had come here making any of the other spokes, a holy grail. The one practise that's harder on one's sense of identity than asceticism is balance for it leaves no room for it to hide.
The teachings about the strings of a musical instrument that play best, somewhere between too tight and too loose, is a lesson most of us relearn over & over.
but all the spiritual planning in the world to play it can't compare to actually strumming it..
Your situation seems far worse than first indicated. A little insight, experience and knowledge is a dangerous thing. Setting unrealistic or impossible goals (have I mentioned I expect to be Enlightened shortly . . . recently . . .
In Buddhism there are six realms, you are largely in the God realm. This may seem 'better' to you . . .
http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/tp/Six-Realms-of-Existence.htm
:wave:
First of all, I did not once say that I want to avoid the unavoidble suffering, lol, not even in the quote you posted.
Second if I can help others to get a more open mind, how is that making them deluded? I would never teach anyone to avoid the dhamma or follow the way of The Buddha, actually the other way around, I would encourage to follow the way of the buddha and I would have buddhist monks teaching the dhamma me. I will focus the most of my energy on my training, warrior exercise training. I can not teach all by my self, even though I will first learn to attain jhanas before I can ask anybody else learn to attain them. I do how ever see them as a excellent way to start from what I've read about them. Your situation seems far worse than first indicated. A little insight, experience and knowledge is a dangerous thing. Setting unrealistic or impossible goals...
How is my goals unrealistic and impossible? What is it that is so impossible? Can you guess who said that. Is that saying that anything is impossible? What is impossible of what I say I want to do? Well, it all would be impossible if I thought it would be impossible that's for sure.
And this... So I'm craving jhana, ok. I have rejected buddhism for my own theism. I reject the idea that suffering is illusory. I do not want what jhana practice produces just the bits I like. I judge my ideas to be as correct as Buddha's. From what I've written in this thread you are so sure of this that you write this to me. I really hope you are right because what would you be a kind of person if you were wrong about it and to send a such negative comment to someone you do not even know.
I have to say that my thoughts is not something I came up with this year or the last...this is something that has grown to existens over the last 13 years. This is not something I planned, this is something that God has showed me. Sure I can be wrong about it but I will keep putting my whole heart in it to make it work like it is written in the stars. I can not listen to closeminded people that keep telling me how impossible everything is. You do not know how many "impossible" things I've done in my life allready. If I would listen to people of what I can do and not do I would be dead a long time ago. So do not worry, I could not care less about comments that tells me how ipossible things is, it is the people who say the comments that should worry.
The only thing I will defend is that I have never rejected Buddhas teachings, not once! I will walk another path, yes, but that do not mean I have rejected his teachings. I have even said something like: "How knows, maybe when Im old I will become a monk". There is so much that you do not know about me and the path I'm on still you have so much to say, a lot of it negativ as well. It is sad to read but not surprising, the negativity is everywhere in the world to day, even in buddhism, lol. Is that not a sign who messed up this world is? lol
One of the main reasons for me to choose my own path was of the condition buddhism is today. It has so many branches and so many people say that Tha Buddha said different things. Buddha did not self write anything down and all we have is sometimes bad translations that people fight about what is the right. To me it has become a circus and I need a clear path and I have found God who has been my teacher. God has sent me buddhism, God then showed me what condition buddhism is in, then he showed me a new path what will come next I do not yet know. If Buddha was here today he would be my teacher but his not and who am I supposed to listen to now? What translation from what man? Nope...a new way is what I have been shown and how much it will be like buddhism I do not know yet, I do know though that I will not call it buddhism and make it even more complicated for those who seek "real" buddhism.
Today I can controll my temper very good, God has tought me well. This is why I'm this calm but I get really furious of negativity especially when it comes from people who are "teaching" buddhism. I save all my anger until the exact right moment in martial arts compitions, so I guess thank you for the fuel. It is sad though that we just can not have an open discussion, it would lead us so much further.
It's only some who comes with this negativity and many people are very kind, nice and helpful I would like to point that out. Some people just have a inner need to tell people what they can and can not do and not even buddhism seems to help them.
I will end with another quote from the same man as above:
That answer do you have to wait for, how long only God knows. Everyday I live my life like I will achive my goals of being a better human, stronger human and then teach that to others. How ever impossible that may seem. lol