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Is jhana better than sex?
hermitwin
Veteran
people who has attained jhana claim that it is better than
anything they have ever experienced, including sex n drugs.
what do you think?
anything they have ever experienced, including sex n drugs.
what do you think?
0
Comments
Seriously, this sort of search for ever deeper altered states of consciousness can be a distraction from the hard work of being a Buddha. If you reach the fifth or eights or whatever level of jhana, then what? When you get home from the retreat, the grass still needs mowed, the landlord calls to say the rent is late, and your wife is complaining that you forgot her birthday.
That's when the hard work of being a Buddha happens.
But I'm not saying it's worthless. Meditation teaches us about our own minds.
A friend said to me 'meditation is overrated', and another friend once said to me 'sex is overrated'. Both are true in a way, but I tend to mostly agree with the latter. If anything sex is not half as satisfying as a good meditation.
I'm no "jhana master" but that's what I believe. The Buddha was really, really smart. He said it's better than sex, I believe him!
What is better; jhana, sex or breaking a leg?
Those who experience jhana are prejudiced for they have usually made their practise, the core of their intent, so no thing is more important for them. Perhaps if any of us put in as much time on developing a sexual high that we've put into steadfast mindfulness, then a fairer comparison of the two could be made.
Your wish is granted.
then you will seek jhana instead of drugs or sex.
boy, that would sure free up a lot of
time n money.
esp all the time n money i used to spend to look good.
if so, you are probably the 1 st one on this forum.
unless they are many jhanins hiding in sheepskins here.
Because they are useful to my practice, I have developed 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th to the point where I can establish them reliably on the cushion. I have experienced 7th and one of the pureland jhanas (not sure which one) by accident a couple of times each.
OR
I heard a stat once that said "Bike riders spend 80% of their rides thinking about sex, and spend 20% of their sexual activity thinking about riding a bike".
Well lets suppose that nonsense was true.... is there anyway we could figure out a way to do both at the same time (bike sex) so we can free our minds up for acheiving total conciousness?
There seems to be some divergence of opinion on this topic, from what I've seen. Part of the issue is that kamacchanda (sensory desire) is considered a hindrance to the jhanas. But if you succeeded in abandoning kammacchanda altogether, sex would no longer be possible nor even of any interest.
Assuming one doesn't have celibacy as a goal, how to balance the two?
(not addressed to anyone)
@Jeffrey
Most of these postings are tongue in cheek for good reason.
Why would one actually compare sex with jhana's anyway except to focus on the worth of the feedback of either?
"Better" is just the definition of scale on what we each consider to more important.
But to get to your assertion that one is more supportive of awareness practise, I think that some of your own Tibetan practitioners would debate you on that.
It easy to put "awareness" at the top of our most important list but there are important qualifiers to consider.
The reason why the eightfold path does not just list the 8 factors but precedes each one with "correct or right", is that each factor also has it's negative. Concentration on it's own, like all the others can lead to either attachment or transcendence.
The jhanas are no different. Attachments to sexuality is easy to dismiss for the coarseness of it's manifestation but attachments to states attributed to meditative development is a much more pervasive delusion to identify and address.
The next time you wonder how well acclaimed Buddhist masters can make the egregious errors that we are hearing of today....Look no further.
Attachments to meditative acomplishments qualifies as one of the hardest of the compounded delusions to deal with.
I think one either offers up the merit of your sexuality union to all beings or you accept that it's really all about you.
& @Fivebells
The only fear I am hearing about is that something you consider to be infallable (jhana,s) is being questioned. No where do I say it's not something to explore & experience, just that if one treats it a something more special than the mundane world around us..you've already been snared.
This is how my teacher teaches in her dharma talks "Turning away from Samsara". My teacher didn't mention sex or chocolate or whatever, but I got the clear idea that we are in samsara and we have to do something.
Anyhow not sure if you were talking to me and I think it's not a bad categorization to say meditation is generally awareness practice whereas sex for pleasure is like eating food because you are hungry.
The post one up was talking about sexuality and merit. I kind of was using humor to point something out and I kinda was making a wise crack.
Well..As long as you don't keep badmouthing chocolate.
but
this claim is true
please do not write anything unwholesome about the above italic, bold and underline letters
thanks a lot
I am one very susceptible to the yoyo effect.. working on it. Craving & fear for jhana/nimitta in meditation is still something I have trouble with. Just like craving & fear for women :rolleyes: In that sense there is not much difference.
Not saying there's anything wrong with such a path for those who want to be celibate -- I'm just wondering whether it's a suitable practice for those who don't have that goal. If anyone participating in the thread feels they have found a workable balance, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. I don't do this kind of practice myself but have thought about taking it up at some point.
at the beginning you make effort to gain control of your mind
then with the help of controlled mind you 'investigate' whether 'what Budda says is true or not'
then you get the Right View
(first stage of Enlightenment)
then you try to live with your gained Right View but you will not be successful all the time (you will see your hate and greed are reducing by degrees)
(second stage of Enlightenment)
you continue to live with your gained Right View, by this time you have more confidence and your efforts to live according to Right View is much more successful before
(period between after second stage of Enlightenment and third stage of Enlightenment)
[you might or might not have sex life and can live as a nice, gentle, caring householder]
one day you will know you have no hate within you anymore
(third stage of Enlightenment)
after this stage, such person has no craving for sex
so have no doubt,
you will be a better person, if you start to practice today itself
When jhanic states visit, sexual desire has been nowhere to be found. When sexually has arisen, I have had no interest in jhana states.
It is not that the jhanic bliss makes sex "trivial" it's that the practise that allows such jhanic states to manifest would not occur if you were also feeding your sexual identity in anyway.
Perhaps those in tantric practises might know of some exceptions to this.
Losing interest in sex is also a result of the path, I'd say yes. The Buddha was celibate and so where all other enlightened beings since, by their nature. I still have a sex drive, but noticed it decreasing as a result. I can see it fade more with more practice and consider becoming celibate. The higher pleasure of meditation is partly the cause of this.
But all of that I think doesn't make the deeper meditations inaccessible for one who is in a sexual relationship, not necessarily.
When I was doing 4+ hours of meditation on a daily basis I found that my sex drive reduced to near zero! However, because I was in a relationship, that was problematic for my partner. It made her unhappy. So in order for her to stop being unhappy, I found that it was quite easy to "conjure" the desire for her benefit. So the desire still arose, but only when I intentionally made it arise and when I was not intentionally making it arise, it went away by itself. I didn't see this as being a problem because it was not "for me" but only for the purpose of allowing my partner to not be unhappy. Problem solved!
However, when I stopped doing 4+ hours of meditation a day, it came back by itself.
'When I was doing 4+ hours of meditation on a daily basis I found that my sex drive reduced to near zero! '
now nobody is going to meditate!
jhana vs sex, sex 1: 0 jhana
That is to say potentially, when we have an orgasm or when we’re breaking a leg, these are moments we can “stop”.
The intensity of the moment sucks up all the energy that we usually put in adding concepts and preferences upon the experience. There is nothing else, and without context the whole structure of our usual perception crumbles. The absolute is here and now and on such an occasion we encounter it.
And then we move on. We put on our socks, we do the dishes; because the most stupid thing we can do is to start craving for these moments when we completely forgot about our craving.
Instead we try to relax here and now, where we found this base.
(Our baseless base if you like. But that could maybe annoy people who hate hearing about gateless gates or goalless goals
ways of saying that our practice is about relaxing or “stopping” here and now, without adding words, concepts and preferences on what is complete already.)