Yes, a few Christians are boobs
vinlyn
Colorado...for now Veteran
Some of you realize that I'm one of those who combine the wise teachings of Jesus and Buddha and attempt to incorporate many of those principles into my life.
That doesn't mean I don't see things that irk me on both sides of the coin.
Today I stopped in to get a haircut. I had to wait for the customer before me to finish. As he wrapped up paying the barber, he said to her, "Are you in any pain?" She said she was not. I thought the whole conversation odd. Then he turned to me and asked me if I was in any pain. By coincidence, it's been a rough weekend with my old broken shoulder, so I said that my arm was very sore and explained briefly why. He put one hand on my arm and started rubbing it, while placing the other hand on my head, and began praying for the healing power of Jesus Christ to remineralize my bone and send the flow of blood through it. "How does your arm feel now?" "Still hurts." So he went through the whole process again, this time with a more thorough prayer. "How's that now?" "No change."
I just don't get what fools like that expect to happen, and when it doesn't happen the way they are expecting how they ignore their failure.
Comments
Clearly, God didn't intend for your pain to be lessened, and since you are un-healable you are going to hell!
On a slightly more serious note, the idea that some people are blessed by God and others are not just never worked for me.
In the UK, I think most of us would probably just assume he had some kind of mental health issue, and/or drunk/drugged!
At least he was trying to be kind.
In the UK we'd think him a nut-job, let's not mince words.....
Frankly, if someone had done this to me, my temptation would have been to run round the room, yelling,
"Ah'm heeeled! Ah'm heeeled! Thank yahw Jeeezuz!
No just kidding. It still hurts like Phukk....!"
^^^ You are in rare form today...hahahahaha.....
And this is not one of my good days. You should see me when I'm out of the strait-jacket....
I'm such a knee jerk people pleaser I'd have strained real hard to say it was better lol
There are boobs in every great religions and I think it is very wise to refrain from calling the whole tradition a big bunch of boobery because of the behavior of . . . well, almost everyone I've met so far :rolleyes:
I seriously doubt it 'hurts' Christ's wisdom teachings in any way to look askance or take to task one of his followers. Same for the Buddha's or Mohammed's teachings. Who it hurts are the followers, to see themselves lumped in.
I wondered for the longest time after 9/11 and the Twin Towers why the Muslim community did not take off after their fundamentalists in an effort to DIRECTLY correct them. I see now that it is a lot more complicated than that, but I do still feel that instead of getting butt-hurt (or so very butt-hurt) when all Muslims or Christians or Buddhists are lumped in with the nut-jobs (to use the UK term
), recognize the dismay of the rest of us is valid. The errant nut-job types are doing serious damage, not to the teachings but to the people who receive them. Turn around and target THEM as the source of the problem, not those understandably dismayed by their rotten behavior.
And in the meantime, it will be my personal responsibility to NOT engage in lumping, and to carefully and with great respect, choose my words carefully when I express my outrage.
In the UK this fella would more then likely be sectioned.
In the US he could be running for political office as a Republican.
This happens all the time here....(bible belt)....I just say "no thank you...., have a blessed day" .......and I keep it movin'....
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BTW: they ignore the 'failure' bec they are taught not to question God. It wasn't in his will..so they feel like they did what they were supposed to do, and the outcome may or may not be revealed to them.
Yes, and that's why I was nice in return, and thanked him for his effort...not that I was actually appreciating it...but I was gracious. Grrrr.
There are a few boobs here too - we need to order in some bras..........
I sincerely hope that we can have fun with the mentally ill, Christian and Buddhist weirdness, the Republicans and other unfortunates . . . without thinking of the children or scaring the horses
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mrs_Patrick_Campbell
Ultimately we are laughing at parts of our self . . .
In some parts of the Americas it seems, laughing at Jesus freaks is the equivalent of questioning the sanctity of the gun lobby (no relative) or being a commie Islamist and part time child abductor.
Personal boundaries of acceptability change. My mothers boyfriend sometimes does spiritualist healing on me or others. It does not last long and he feels better for it. Nobody seems to mind too much.
and now back to others cheek . . .
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That's a very interesting observation.
I remember in the first few days after 9/11, three different Muslim parents came to my school at different times to apologize to me personally (I guess because I was the principal) for the terror attacks. Part of me understood that they wanted to show me that they were good pro-American people so that we would treat their children well. But at the same time, Muslim voices condemning the terrorism were practically mute.
Please order me a DD...not necessary every day...but on occasion.
Some people really have a problem with their space being invaded in that manner. If someone really must do such things, they should at least offer and not simply ask vague questions and then start touching people. My autistic son would have a huge, huge problem with a random stranger touching him. I know I shouldn't have expectations, but I haven't let go of all of them yet
Because I wouldn't assume it was ok for me to randomly bust out a mantra chant at someone in a hair salon, so I prefer someone not bust out their Jesus healing on me, either. Thankfully, the main type of Christianity here is where everyone talks about how the other person is a bad Christian.
Ah, let 'em flap, let them free. My mother's generation worked hard to make their brassieres optional. Besides, big boobs have an auto-correcting function when allowed free; black eyes, fat lips, heck you can even get yourself knocked out when the flapping gets too energetic. Wouldn't know myself, but I heard it from a friend.
I am developing a close friendship with a Christian gal I work with, and it's helping me to have a more equanimous attitude toward Christians in general. What I'm figuring out is that the experiences I've had with Christianity deeply injured me, kind of in the way that you don't touch a live wire. I'm whole and intact, but when I perceive the presence of a particular kind of "Christian" energy coming at me, I feel myself drawing up inside, constricting, forming a defensive posture within. I might be smiling and polite but inside I am backing away. Not out of fear anymore, which is how it started, but in repulsion/disgust and resentment.
A church I went to with my childhood bff was very conservative and is considered cultish nowadays (the church of Christ). As a young girl, I had members of this church gush tears while clutching my hands, begging me to 'get saved'. Out of the other side of their mouths, one tiny sin left unforgiven meant Hell. It was beyond terrifying, and I was pretty good at noticing when I sinned, enough said. It took years before I could just see a bible and not feel panic and terror. 'Nuff said again, I think most people can relate. One problem that comes from this is 'you see what you are looking for' so for years all I saw was those kinds of Christians. Then they started running for office in the US, and getting elected. Terrifying.
It's understandable, the bash-back, on Christianity. Not saying it's skillful or acceptable in any way. It's organic, as blameless as a weed growing.
There are people who have been deeply traumatized by "Christians" in their perverted expressions. That bff of mine finally left the church two years ago, and we talked at length about it over facebook. She is still all teeth and claws about it, and I see myself twenty five years ago in her, fighting to escape. Her vicious hatred of "christians" is where she needs to be to reach Escape Velocity, in my opinion. I'm no longer there, and I held back trying to reassure her or encourage her to 'rise above it'. I know what she's going through, and she's got many many more years of it poisoning her mind and heart than I ever did. She has a right to her rage, and so does anyone hurt by abuse cleverly disguised as sacred truth.
I think those of us here hold ourselves to a higher standard, and I've been corrected (appropriately) a couple of times by a couple of people. I appreciate being pointed in a more skillful direction AND the presence in my life of this developing friendship is definitely in service to resolving twenty something years of defensive anger against Christians. Not Christianity itself, behind the scenes (and after looking at a bible was no longer a panic attack) I've explored, appreciated and incorporated aspects of it to my benefit. I've not found Christians to discuss this with, and so far so good with my new friend.
Muslims have no such obligation toward you or anyone else.
They don't have an obligation to correct wrong-doers in their own community?
My wife tells me I have healing hands and I have chosen to believe her for thirty years. Look no further for a nut job than right here.
That's up to the individual. Do you have an obligation to correct the wrong-doers in your community? Maybe you do. Or maybe you say, "I am only responsible for my actions. I represent no community." Both attitudes are fine.
Petitionary/intercessory prayer is one of the things that grinds my gears most about mainstream Christians.
They clamor about when their prayers were "answered," but, like you said @vinlyn, they don't really make any noise about when they are not.
I'm not a theist, but treating God like some sort of genie cheapens the whole thing, doesn't it?
No one said they had such an obligation. I merely pointed out that they sometimes made private statements of abhorrence, but publicly were pretty much silent.
That's a good point. As Dietrich Bonhoeffer said, "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act."
I do believe in God, but I don't believe God is a micromanager.
Actually they DO. Read a Qu'aran.
They have an obligation to respect the law of the land you live in so I think that the two who killed the soldier walking back to his barracks have an obligation to NOT KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE. The Muslims who went on a rampage in Sydney over a movie made by an American based Egyptian have an obligation NOT TO ATTACK AND ABUSE INNOCENT SYDNEYSIDERS, ANIMALS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. And the silent majority of the Muslims in Australia have the obligation to take measures to stop it, but not a sound was heard.
Anyone who follows a religious path with "thou shalt and thou shalt not" are obligated to follow the rules that bind them. If they don't believe it, then they shouldn't be part of the religion.
Killings go on all over the world, in every community. So going by your logic, every community on the planet will have to condemn these things every single day - it becomes a 24/7 job. A little too tedious, wouldn't you say?
@betaboy - if you consider other people's lives inconsequential then yes it would be. However, those who take Bodhhisattva vows would worry about these people. They vow to delay Nirvana till all sentient beings are enlightened. Are they also wasting time on "tedious" issues?
I find it interesting that you can say this point is tedious when you appear to be empathetic on other threads? Do you share your handle with someone else?
No.
It's called 'breaking the law' and it is condemned by communities on the planet every single day, for that very reason....
What would your community be like, if your neighbour was murdered, and the police were to say "Meh, do you think we have time to condemn this, every single day? Give us a break, we have doughnuts to finish here, fer chrissakes!"
Unless, of course, that's precisely the kind of community you DO live in.... which I somehow doubt.
Very sad and I would suggest is common to those brought up by the casualties of religion. It is almost as if we have to overcome religious aversion before becoming practitioners. Our trust has been abused, sometimes through well meaning fanatics.
It is why false, abusive and ignorant gurus and authoritative voices need to be exposed, countered and NOT covered up. For example Sathya Sai Baba used some of his gains to open a free hospital. The hospital and other charities are wonderful. He was a sham. The 'Christian' Jimmy Savile in the UK, provided millions to charitable causes whilst systematically abusing children. We could point out dharma 'teachers' just as easily.
It would be wonderful if we could extend metta to the deserving and the undeserving. In time we do. However initially we have to develop the integrity to recognise our limitations and the karma that has warped or enhanced our potential . . .
The important thing I feel, is making use of the rogue experiences in some way . . .
Ah, aversion, and the karma that warps. When you get down to brass tacks, it's being too specific to label this misbehavior 'religious', or even to blame religion. It's the same misbehavior of human beings whatever hat you put on it.
@Hamsaka I'm sorry you suffered such a difficult time with the church you went to and the feelings you had in leaving. For myself, it was resentment (though not nearly as difficult as yours) towards my family for not allowing me to choose my own path and forcing me to follow theirs. Even when my first son was born there was a lot of "You must baptize him or he will go to hell!!" comments made by my mom. Thankfully, she has gotten past that and so have I. Christianity was never for me, but it wasn't the religion I resented nearly as much as being forced to participate in something I didn't believe in and being told I wasn't old enough to know what I believed.
As for an obligation to speak up about things, I think it's a personal matter. Just like we shouldn't put expectations on others, I think obligations are mostly the same thing. Is there a difference between saying "I expect you to speak up" and "You are obligated to speak up"? If I feel obligated, then by all means I should speak up, in a manner that is consistent with kindness and compassion. But I don't think I get to tell someone else that they, also, should be obligated/expected to speak up. There are times I personally would like to speak out about things in my community, but I have to use discretion in choosing what to say, when (if at all). Living in a small town, I don't want my children or my other family to be ostracized when I hold views that aren't within the majority opinion of our community. So sometimes, even if I feel strongly about something, in the best interest of my children or family, I do not speak up. Everyone has their reasons. Who knows if the Muslims post-9/11 felt unsafe speaking out? I wouldn't blame them, considering some of the things that happened in the days and weeks following.
@vinlyn At least he didn't ask you for money.
I recently heard a report on NPR about televangelists and tax evasion that also had a recorded snippet of a preacher asking for prayer money. My blood was boiling not just because of the manner and style in which he did it, but that according to the report shows like his claim status as a church and receive all the subsequent tax benefits. However, many don't meet and often violate criteria established by the government to be classified as a church and charitable organization, and the IRS turns a blind eye.
A couple of years ago an evangelical co-worker noticed that I was sick with the flu, and came up to me as I was sitting working at my desk. He laid his hand on my shoulder, and whispered in my ear, "In the name of Jesus be healed". I immediately responded by quoting St Paul and saying, "I die daily" He had a confused look about him and then walked away. I probably reinforced his belief that I belong to cult.
Anyway, it is interesting that according to the New Testament Jesus says on more than one occasion that your faith has made you well rather than I have made you well, and many often think that healing is just about the physical but there is the spirit too, so perhaps our thoughts and how we think really determines our lives.
Also, sometimes what we think is initially a blessing doesn't turns out to be and sometimes what we think is a curse actually turns out to be a blessing. Hindsight is twenty twenty.
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Perhaps in your experience, that's true. But I think it should also be noted that besides offering personal apologies and expressing feelings of remorse and solidarity, many Muslims did, and still do, public denounce terrorism, from 9/11, to the Boston marathon attack, to the mall attack in Nairobi, etc. It's just that nobody seems to hear them when they do.
They hear them alright but pretend they don't. It is called prejudice, not an easy thing to overcome.
Are you not conflating two very different things?
I am of Persian origin (not a Muslim but a non-practicing Zoroastrian), so if a Persian carries out a terrorist attack, myself and other Persians/Zoroastrians should do ..... what exactly? Aside from empathizing with the victims in the solitude of our homes....? Do you expect us to make a public announcement as well? What exactly is the evidence you're looking for that Muslims do indeed sympathize/condemn attacks?
Seriously, empathy is something we cultivate within our hearts. Not all of us have the capacity/resources to go out in public and wave banners and express solidarity....
BTW, just out of curiosity ... do you expect Caucasians to do the same whenever some redneck schmuck carries out racists attacks? Or is the litmus test only for Muslims?
Honestly, this place is beginning to sound more and more like a right-wing hellhole....nothing remotely Buddhist.
Perhaps it's not that everyone doesn't pretend to hear them, but that our means of hearing them is limited. To find those things, you mostly have to seek them out. It's not like most of them made headlines on the major news networks or anything in the same ways that the opposite side made headlines. When news agencies cater to what their audience already believes, it's not really a surprise when those people don't open their minds and their views to seek out other sources. And then if Muslims wanted to march on Washington to make themselves heard against the violence their ethnicity as a whole is accused of, we'd have a fit about that, too.
Sorry to vent about this, but I don't understand and maybe someone here does.
A few months ago, a 15 year old friend of my children died of cancer. His family were devout Catholics, and they were wonderful people. If there was a family who lived an epitome of compassion and serving others, it was them. But their son died. Someone else I know, a 65 year old man, has stomach cancer. He had surgery and his treatment is going well. His scans show no growth, he's suffering very few ill effects of his chemo, all around things are going great. But all the credit for that, goes to God. They truly believe they are being rewarded for their good faith in God, and that is why their loved one (this is the wife of the sick man who is talking, on his caringbridge site) is doing so well. God is blessing them, and they should never doubt that he will pull them all the way through, that their love for Him is showing in the results of this man's amazing cancer treatment. Yet if you were to ask her why the young boy died and yet this man is living by the blessings of God, she would simply say "It was God's plan." I seriously don't understand that. First she says her husband is doing so well because they are good Christians, but if someone else is a good Christian and dies, well, that, too, was God's love. How do they reconcile that? Not being able to have those questions truly answered was a lot of the reason I knew Christianity wasn't for me. Buddhism (depending exactly what you believe) either has an answer related to karma, or has an answer more along the lines of "It happens, it's part of the suffering merry-go-round, and it sucks. But here are some ways you can deal with it." I can handle that. This wife has said also that she finds it absolutely terrifying that people don't have God to rely on. I find it terrifying that they do, in the way she talks about it, lol.
I dont apologize for people who call themselves buddhist and do stupid things.
I am with you on this betaboy.
The simple explanation is muslims are the minority in the west, so they have to apologize for what the terrorists did.
do jews have to apologise for what israel does?
I agree. It seems kind of silly to me to single out Muslims. We can ask the same about Buddhists, for example. How many Buddhists go around publicly denouncing the terrorizing actions of Buddhists in, say, Burma? Or how many Americans go around publicly denouncing the terrorizing actions of the US, like drone-bombing weddings, funerals, etc.? I might say something to my friends or post on Facebook about it, but I generally don't go making public denunciations every time someone in the same social group (e.g., Buddhist, American, white, etc.) as I does something violent. If I did, it's all I'd be doing.
For example...there was what I perceived to be a racist joke posted a couple of days ago and I never expected anyone here to apologize on their or all white people's behalf. In fact, most of you probably didn't notice it or pay it any mind.
In the future...the best bet is always to poke fun at your own race. It avoids alot of misunderstanding and conflict. Just sayin' .......
Off topic: I'm loving the extra edit time. I can catch, check and fix my terrible spelling! ..
.. I usually have a dictionary tab open and a thesaurus too, but hate to interrupt the flow of conversation to do the checking right then! hahaha
To all participants:
On that note, there's a fine line... if we were all 'sensitive' to what others say, joke or infer, I doubt much would end up getting said - but then again, if you do find something offensive (particularly if you believe it has been written with that intention!) please, please - flag it.
Consider its validity, intention, innocence, whatever; but if it really smarts, let us know.
However, whatever you do - please refrain from passing comment on forum, in the thread. it makes moderation/deleting a much more difficult challenge.
Thanks all.
Carry on.
Here's a Christian I quite like listening too with a nice cup of tea:
He's a Franciscan priest (means almost nothing to me, but it may to you?), and he almost sounds 'Buddhist'.
https://cac.org/richard-rohr
I got into him when I listened to a talk he gave on the 12 Steps and I enjoyed it, so listened to a few more.
I'm glad to read that post.
Nothing like some good old hyperbole.
First of all, I don't think we're necessarily talking about individuals...or at least I'm not. But in the case of Jews and Israel, I think Jewish groups and leaders who enthusiastically support Israel, raise funds for Israeli causes, and promote Israel ought to be able to use the same degree of effort to sometimes correct Israel and its actions. I mention Israel here as an example, because you mentioned it in your post.
And in terms of "speaking out", with the east of social media nowadays, we can all speak out to some degree about injustices. It's no more difficult to speak out against such things than it is to "like" a television program on Facebook (for example). And BTW, there is no shortage of Americans speaking out when America does something.
Now, in relation to betaboy's (and others) that some of us are expecting only minorities to speak out, I would suggest that's not at all true. There is an expectation is our culture -- a predominantly White culture (still around 63%, not including White Hispanics) -- that Americans should condemn things like the slavery of Blacks before the Civil War and the treatment of Blacks after the Civil War, the treatment of minorities, what was done to the American Indians, and other topics. And much of that pressure is of Whites on Whites.
Christians who believe that God is a micro-manager are, in my view wrong. But I have had this general discussion with quite a few Christians, and in the end they simple keep restating something like, "Prayer works" or "I believe in prayer". I've also had discussions with Thai Buddhists who believe that the mummies of monks you sometimes see in Buddhist temples there are monks who had magical powers. People believe what they believe...in all religions...whether it is proved or logical. And to some degree, most of us are like that.
Just to give you an example of personal effort that matters, we had a guidance counselor in our school who was Jewish. On 9/12 he went to a fairly large Muslim Mosque in our area, went in and introduced himself to those in attendance, indicated he was Jewish, and assured them that responsible Americans would not hold the 9/11 attacks on the overall Muslim community. He was welcomed by the people at the mosque. Although he and I were far from being friends, I greatly respected his courage.
I see a lot of Buddhism going on, along with some worldly topics that we as Buddhists (and non-Buddhists) discuss, even if not always from a strictly Buddhist point of view. That's ok, I think. Thankfully, we have the choice not only to not read things we find upsetting or unenjoyable, but we have the freedom to not log in at all. Curious that you would choose to subject yourself to a place you consider a hellhole. I tend to avoid them, myself.