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Buddhism = Death of Hobbies?
husseyalan
New
Hello. I am a practitioner of Soto Zen. As my practice is deepening, I am feeling slightly apprehensive. I enjoy reading, writing and listening to music, however, I feel like my practice requires these hobbies to dissolve. Can such hobbies remain if the purpose is not to strengthen the go i.e. to look intelligent? Also, some of the material I read can be described as somewhat pessimistic - I am inquisitive of such a mindset - I'm in the mental health profession, which perhaps explains this. Is this a barrier to practice, even if it gives an insight into mental illness i.e. Sylvia Plath?
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If it feels good, do it.
When in doubt - don't.
The Middle Way is to enjoy what life has to offer without clinging to it. I've been Korean Zen half my life, and I not only enjoy reading, I write books. And the books are not about how to practice Zen, by the way. There are movies and television shows I don't watch because either the suffering they portray is too painful or the message is wrong and the same for reading books, but plenty of stuff left that I enjoy.
In the same way the "goal" such as it is of Soto Zen is to cultivate your ordinary, everyday mind, so your practice should be an ordinary, everyday life. Some of what you are taught is designed for monks, and an intensely focused life on Zazen is fine for them. It might not be the practice for you.
What about all the zen poets and painters?
This may just be a phase where you find yourself totally immersed in the Zen stuff. For now. How long have you been practicing Soto Zen?
@husseyalan -- 1. There is no requirement in Buddhism that hobbies or habits "dissolve." However, with practice, they do seem to be seen in a new light and as such, perhaps, "dissolve" all by themselves and without assistance. 2. The pessimism you rightly sense is probably the same "pessimism" anyone enters into when attacking any problem: In order to straighten things out, it is necessary to test the dimensions of that problem ... or, less nicely put, enter the shit in order to get to the sunshine. If this is a correct assessment, it will be natural to poke around in the maze called dukkha -- the unsatisfactoriness that nibbles and nags and is sometimes called "suffering."
Attacking any problem seriously starts off on a gloomy note: The aspects seem endless and insurmountable. And why not? A lifetime of habituation precedes the desire to straighten things out. The result is that at first it may seem that the emphasis on doing things wrong is pretty depressing. And perhaps this is even more the case for anyone in the mental-health field: These are people who, sub rosa, are trained to assess and fix and by definition control the scene at hand. To enter a world that has no footnoted explanations or hand-holds is a 180-degree turn ... a bit scary to tell the truth.
The bottom line is to keep on keepin' on. Courage, patience and doubt are your greatest allies and among these, patience may be the most necessary to practice. Which of us wouldn't wish for a little fairy dust to turn things around in an instant -- a shazzam moment in which, well, you know, everything was all better? Unfortunately, such fairy dust doesn't exist or if it does, it is usually marketed under the illegal-drug nomenclature "angel dust."
Just noodling here. Best wishes.
Why do you feel your practice requires this?
Speaking for myself, I consider sailing, hiking, reading and the chopping wood/carrying water of my daily life to all be part of my Zen practice...
I guess I feel that these hobbies are associated with an identity, the I, thus they would be dissolved.
Thank you all for the reassurances. I also have a question about the nature of some of the material I read. For example, I like to read the newspaper - the newspaper contains stories of suffering, tragedy etc.... Books I read, films I watch, also, sometimes, contain suffering. For example, I watched the Kurt Cobain documentary last night. I felt sadness for him, but I did not internalise, or adapt his mindset of the world. However, I am interested in how people perceive the world, even if it pessimistic in nature. Is such material bad for my practice?
" nothing whatsoever is to be clung to as I or mine" ( I don't have a reference handy) the Buddha.
One can't force the dissolution of identity if that is your goal, rather sit, be mindful and your perspective may very well change
All the best
I doubt that it's bad for practice, since it's why the Buddha man did what he did. He was painfully aware as was his wife and he just went out and _____. We have to learn how to acknowledge life's dark side - skillfully.
I think some of this comes down to exactly how one defines "attachment".
I can see someone having a hobby that they are so "into" that you could honestly say they are "attached". For example, a band teacher at our school collected old 78 rpm records. I guess that's an okay hobby...to an extent. Except he collected so many that he had never listened to the vast majority, had never cataloged them (so he really didn't know what he had), would just go to estate sales and auctions and buy any box full of them, and it finally got so much that the floor in the room in which he had his "collection" partially collapsed. I'd say he was attached. Obsessed.
But most people are not that obsessed about hobbies.
I can see people taking some Buddhist teachings and prescribing for themselves a rather stark life. But I think that is overdoing it.
Wow, you cut straight to the tough questions.
When I began to see the world through a clear mind, I started see everyone as people worthy of compassion in spite of their faults and actions. When it came to some poeple, that didn't mean I couldn't still be horrified at their actions, or disgusted at the damage they do to others in their life. I could still see them as suffering human beings in their own right. I didn't want to punish anyone and certainly didn't take delight when society laid down the punishment. I just wanted them to stop hurting people.
This attitude, this ability to see the enemy as people instead of monsters, sometimes makes you feel like the voice of reason when the mob is screaming for blood. Is that what you're talking about?
OP, reading or watching films about suffering can give you great insight into the nature of suffering. This broadens your understanding, and, one would hope, your compassion for others. Learning more about the nature of suffering can increase you skillful means in helping others. Reading the news hopefully motivates you to take action; it does me, anyway. Write your representatives in Congress to increase funding for treatment of war veterans suffering from PTSD. Organize a human rights project. Get involved in causes. That is bodhisattva work!
I'm not familiar with Soto Zen, but I wonder what material in Buddhism it is that you feel is pessimistic. I see Buddhism as supremely optimistic, teaching a way out of suffering, and motivating people to do their part to alleviate the suffering of others. It gives hope to the world.
As a lay practitioner, you don't have to give up hobbies and interests. One does become more keenly aware, however, of the fragility of life (any of us could keel unexpectedly, at any moment), and therefore--of the preciousness of every moment, every day, we've been given on this Earth. So over time, you begin to shift how much time you spend in pastimes over to time spent in activities that help others. But we're not monastics. We don't have to be Puritanical about avoiding activities we enjoy: music, dancing, reading (especially if we read for insight into the human condition, which it sounds like you do), sports, visiting friends. These are things that can uplift us, and contribute to a balanced life. I don't regard them as "idle" pursuits, at all.
I hope this helps.
Thank you for your comment. I don't think Buddhism is pessimistic - I was referring to some of the books I read, films I watch. I'm interested in such material that portrays suffering - the reason for this is because I want to understand people more. I'm a mental health nurse, with a view to pursuing psychoanalysis, so its intertwined. I'm not obsessed with such themes, however.
I guess I'm just interested in the human condition. I believe such knowledge can help my professional practice - to help people.
I think in the "Old World" (Thailand, for example), you do see a sense of fatalism wound around Buddhism. I think back to conversations I've had there where people accepted very negative situations with a high degree of passivity because (as they stated) "it was due to kamma". For example, I struck up a conversation one day with a paraplegic beggar who spoke a fair degree of English. His situation occurred in an industrial accident. He attributed it to kamma. A group of students had an information table outside a major hotel after the 1992 riots which resulted in the deposing of the Prime Minister (office attained after military coup) and the mysterious disappearance of hundreds of young protesters. They were showing CNN video of the demonstrations and "preaching" civic involvement; several of them had had many friends "disappear". I asked if they weren't angry that Suchinda (the deposed PM) was living a life of luxury with no consequences for what he had had the military do. No, they said. That is in the past (it was just a month earlier) and whatever happens to Mr. Suchinda and our fellow students is "just" kamma. There's a lot of "kamma-thinking related passivity there.
I had the misconception that everything I watched/read/listened to had to be of an uplifting nature. I enjoy things that can be viewed as such, but I'm also interested in the opposite. I've always been interested in the writing of Sylvia Plath. Sylvia suffered greatly - I'm interested in her mind, how she translated her thoughts to her work, but I wouldn't be obsessed, I wouldn't want to be like Sylvia nor would I promote her way of thinking.
But the world isn't a nice place all the time. Granted, wallowing in the bad isn't conductive to a healthy mind or practice. I suppose that old standby about balance is the way I look at it.
I wholeheartedly agree with that. It is about the balance, one which I'm conscious of. Thank you for commenting. I'm delighted I will still be able to practice my hobbies.
-On a good day I perceive interaction with world as being part of my practice; for example when we go out into the world we oftentimes find opportunities to practice compassion. When we read the paper we get situational awareness. As regards what and how much of the content we choose to expose ourselves to, it seems to me the answer would depend upon the reason(s) for the interaction, viewing/reading and our response to it; the utility of the material to us as regards our intentions...
I certainly hope one doesn't have to give up their hobbies. Until his medical issues, Thich Nhat Hanh had several, including wonderful calligraphy. If we are to give up everything, then what? We become Buddhist blobs? Honestly, I think the more clear our minds get, the more our creativity flows and we can use it to connect with others.
Yes, I see where I misunderstood part of your original post. Well, I think the material you choose to take in has the potential to enhance your spiritual (as well as your professional) practice. I think you're using it very constructively. If compassion is at the foundation of your motivation, it's hard to go wrong.
Your profession dovetails very well with your spiritual practice. They enhance each other. Kind of a symbiotic relationship. And some of your hobbies and pastimes further both. Keep up the good work/play/practice!
I am thinking of adding Soto Zen to my hobbies, not subtracting.
New hobbies for the Zenith:
We haz plan!
@husseyalan
In 40+ years in a Soto Zen, I have yet to meet a hobby challenged Roshi.
Work towards resolving your attachments while remembering not to confuse the attachments for whatever you happen to be attaching to.
Welcome!
This sounds like a common-enough question to me, but I think it is more about personal baggage (which I have a lot of myself) rather than a requirement or description of Zen or Buddhism as a whole.
I've had the idea that Buddhism is this austere, self-denying and pleasureless spiritual practice. Well, at least one SHOULD strive for pleasurelessness, strive to detach from life's pleasures lest one be sentenced to yet another rebirth in Samsara.
I think one or two aspects of Buddhism that captures the Western imagination MORE than the essential message of the Buddha is what's at work here. In my understanding, the Buddha pursued the problem of suffering to it's source, and claimed to have 'undone' suffering. And on the way, what he discovered included being 'real', being just exactly who/what you are in this very moment IS liberation from suffering.
Nowhere in there (at least to my present understanding, mind you) is there a list of 'thou shalt nots', just a list of recommendations that if you adhere to them, will take you on that journey to the end of suffering.
This 'cessation of suffering' gets pushed aside by the western mind, perhaps? Denying oneself pleasures sticks out like a sore thumb, isn't that what life is about? No wonder Buddhism gets a bad rap.
@lobster You can also start whacking inattentive family members with a stick. This Zen thing sounds OK actually...
^^^ I prefer to use a carrot ...
http://sarasotazen.org/kyosaku/
You might find your interests changing though.
Thank you all for your comments.
My viewpoint has somewhat changed thanks to the input of others. I genuinely believe that reading the suffering of others, within moderation, is both beneficial to my practice and beneficial for my professional development. I'm just very, very interested in people, and how they think, why they think, how their thoughts affects their behaviour etc... It's all done with detachment. Focusing on one aspect of human nature wouldn't interest me.
I watched a documentary on suicide recently. Some might think this is not good for practice, because of the intensity of such a subject. An insight into the suicidal mind gives me the ability to understand how a person came to this feeling, why they're feeling it and, more importantly, how I can potentially such an individual. The documentary cultivates compassion for the person, thus aids practice and profession.
I kind of relate to your statement that 'some might not think it's good for a practice' to watch documentaries on suicide or ISIS or the Khmer Rouge (or other extremely depressing and awful things).
Except that these things are evidence of the suffering the Buddha was all on about.
I'm of the mind that yeah, great, I'm addressing my own suffering, but what about everyone else? I realized for myself, I don't see that much difference between my suffering and that of others. Sort of like as long as there is great suffering in the world, it is my own suffering too, not just 'out there'.
And I agree that understanding something like suicide is an opportunity to cultivate compassion, and a bunch of other appealing qualities. You are drawn to it for a reason, and if the reason ISN'T a good thing after all, you'll find out. It will make itself clear to you.
What you are doing doesn't sound that much different than what the Buddha intended when he set off from the palace. His intent was to pursue suffering, which is the first noble truth, which I imagine meant he intended to learn and know suffering. We all suffer in the same ways. If we didn't, the Buddha's message wouldn't appeal the way it does.
I'm not sure what in your mind is criticizing your 'hobbies' or interests? Maybe question that thing that is questioning YOU
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I think 'studying' suicide could be the most important thing of all to help everyone. It's a taboo that's time has come, for everyone to see it for what it is - what it has been in society. Two things: Read "Healing Lazarus" and "Suicide: The Savage God". http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1006306.The_Savage_God
No.
It is not the death of hobbies.
It is the death of:
As per the outlook of cognitive behavioral psychology we shape our own patterns and habits.
Think of Buddhism as a deliberate re-shaping, reframing, of how we relate to self and to everything else.
The habits and patterns of a lifetime - of countless lifetimes if you accept the concept of rebirth - are not changed quickly.
I think so. Many Japanese zen monks throughout history have also been poets, artists and musicians.
It is quite possible to make The Middle Way an all consuming passionate obsession. However is that balanced or is it the form of 'Dharma Club', which no one talks of.
What were the Buddha's hobbies?
It was a simpler time ...
inn my opinion, if you can read the negative things completely detached, simply informational, without adopting any chaaracteristics of it or developing a negative thought(s), then continue with your studies. if you culdn't remain 100% detached, then I would recommend dropping them. this is the case for myself - reading negative things and such influences my thoughts to form/ dwell on something negative. so i don't read anything negative - nowadays i don't even read fantasy which i used to love - i find they dont serve me in remaining in the now, in reality, the dimension of enlightenment. only buddhist/hindu(bhagavad gita)/ spiritual texts for myself