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Where to start
ajhayes
Pema Jinpa Dorje Northern Michigan Veteran
I know there are a lot of threads on where to start, but, I still feel like my head is swimming with all of the new information that is coming at me. I am at a loss of what to do and where to look, despite having a large list of things to do and places to start.
I am trying to be mindful, trying to remember the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path... and, frankly, I'm overwhelmed. I have so many questions, that I can't even think of the first one to ask.
Is this normal? Thank you in advance for tolerating my verbal barrage.
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Comments
Welcome
Very normal, yes. You have the rest of your life to figure it out, don't feel like you have to cram for it like a history final.
Thich Nhat Hanh's "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching" is excellent for beginners. It breaks down the foundation/basics, and then the 4 Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path and then goes farther. I found I had to put it down until I had a good grasp of what I read so far (backing it up at the time from online sources) and then move on to the next topic when I was ready.
Meditation is a good place to start. It'll help prepare your mind to practice mindfulness through your day, and help you prepare to absorb what you are learning.
I took my refuge vows 3.5 years ago, but I have been studying Buddhism for about 5 years now. It's still overwhelming
In my opinion, no. Because, within your mind you have the ability to allow it to overwhelm you, or the ability to relax and let things flow.
A lot about Buddhism is just that -- taking control of a situation within you.
the beginner does not have control of the mind in that stage, @vinlyn . It is very normal to feel overwhelmed when beginning. there is alot of information to take in. @karasti suggested thich nhat hanh; that is a great placeto begin. he is a wise buddhist master, much more qualified to guide you through buddhism than any 'veteran' on this site.
Yes, Buddhism will get you there but most beginners probably aren't there yet. I still read some things and feel overwhelmed. But I know not to let it consume me and just put it down and go back to it later.
There is a lot of information out there, especially online. Here, when you ask a question you will get a lot of (mostly) great answers. But everyone will answer from their own tradition and then it gets confusing because not every tradition will answer exactly the same. Interpretation is always tricky.
Beginner books will help get a grasp of the material and you'll then know better what works for you from here. I understand that Zen Mind, Beginner Mind is another excellent one (I have not read that but have seen it recommended many times). When I first started, I found Sogyal Rinpoche's Tibetan Book of Living and Dying very good, but it is based in Tibetan Buddhism which can get confusing if you aren't interested in those aspects. Chogyam Trungpa wrote many books that are good for westerners (of course I am not sure you are a westerner, so making an assumption!) but some find him crass. If you have a decent sized public library, you might just want to pull up a stool and flip through some of the options and see what strikes your fancy. Or even at a bookstore like Barnes and Noble where they don't care if you grab a stack of books to look through without buying them. Don't go broke buying books, it's easy to do at first, lol. There are some free kindle ebooks as well if you have a kindle or the app.
But before any of it, I would work on establishing a meditation practice. What works for you is all that matters. Try to do it daily, every day, and if you are not used to it, start small. Better to do 5 minutes a few times a day than try to sit in misery for 30 minutes. When you don't want to crawl out of your skin after 5 minutes, then extend it a few minutes. Meditation will carry you through your practice and what you need will be more clear to you. It will also carry you life's rocky times if you establish a good practice before the poop hits the fan.
Welcome @ajhayes! I found "Open Heart, Clear Mind: An Introduction to the Buddha's Teachings" by Ven. Thubten Chodron to be helpful.
As a newbie myself, I'll second @karasti on the importance of getting a good daily meditation practice started. This by itself has gradually changed my life.
Thank you all for the responses. Your input is very appreciated.
@ajhayes -- Suppose you were going to clean out a closet that had been accumulating stuff for years. You open the door with intentions in place and ... G-A-W-D!!!!!! There's so much stuff and so much entailed that the task literally can seem overwhelming.
And then you put out your hand... and pick up ... one thing.
There is no other choice short of C-4. One thing. Everything else recedes -- all the good intentions, all the sense of being overwhelmed. Everything disappears ... except for this one thing.
Buddhism is largely a matter of paying attention and taking responsibility. So ... pay attention and take responsibility. In the evening, before you go to sleep, guesstimate the events of the next day. Rough it out in your mind. Find a slice of time -- 15 or 20 minutes, perhaps -- that you promise to devote to your one ... Buddhist ... thing. Reading, perhaps, or meditating or whatever one thing you choose. And then ... make a promise, keep a promise: When the time comes, do what you have promised to do. Just one thing. If you have promised 15-20 minutes, DO NOT do less and DO NOT do more.
Of course you can come up with dozens of other things you might do as well ... that's the nature of intellectual and emotional clutter ... all those wise (wo)men with their wise nostrums getting enlightened and other nonsense. That's not for you. The only thing for you is one thing. One thing with nothing added on and nothing subtracted. Once you have done the one Buddhist thing you promised for this day, that is enough. Forget about Buddhism ... watch TV or go for a walk or stand on your head or gossip on some Buddhist bulletin board. No more Buddhism today. It's finito.
But that evening, rough out what tomorrow might bring. Pick a slice of time that may be free -- 15 or 20 minutes perhaps. Make your promise -- a full-blooded, no-screwing-around promise ... do it come hell or high water. Fulfill your one-thing promise. If the dog dies or the plumbing bursts, that is no excuse for not keeping your one-thing promise: Don't say, "I couldn't do my one thing because the plumber was coming." Say rather, "I choose not to keep my promise and take responsibility for it."
One thing at a time. Never mind if the job will ever get done or being wonder-struck by the avalanche of material at your disposal -- that's just more closet-clutter. Right, wrong or indifferent, do your one thing. Plan and act. Plan and act. Plan and act ... one thing at a time.
Maybe it's for you. Maybe not. No matter ... a person can never do more than one thing at a time, right?
@ajhayes
You are right, there** is** endless info out there.
Eventually just browsing over it all will start to feel too voyeuristic and then finding some way to make it more than an intellectual exercise will probably arise.
This just means putting your boots on the ground towards an actual practice, where formally only your mentality was involved.
Welcome to the fray.
You misunderstand what I'm saying. The typical person doesn't have to let themselves go fanatic about a new religion. They can slow down and be selective.
@vinlyn -- I'm not entirely sure what a "typical" person might be, but I think we can agree that there is often a honeymoon period in spiritual endeavor, a time when the newly-discovered landscape is purely wowsers.... all serious and pyrotechnic and enough to make a blind man weep. Like new love ... woo-hoo!!! ... where have you been all of my life???!!!
Or perhaps I am overgeneralizing from my own experience and there are sane and savvy newcomers who can exercise a moderation I never could.
My guess these days is that it really doesn't matter much if excitement spills over into 'fanaticism.' Assuming anyone finds and practice and then practices it, life has a way of ironing out the wrinkles.
In Zen circles, there is the tale of some teacher (name forgotten) who was approached by the hall monitor during a sesshin or days-long retreat. The monitor (jiki-jitsu) complained to the teacher that a particular sesshin participant was sleeping during meditation periods. The monitor's view was that the fellow should be ejected. The teacher disagreed: "Nobody can sleep for seven days," he said mildly. Likewise, nobody can live forever on the swirly-giggly solemnities of first love.
@ajhayes "Start Where You Are" Well that's what Pema Chodron would tell you in her book by the same title....
You have a list? Sheer luxury!
Oh must be time for a trite answer ... Keep 'can't think' mind ... that will do.
Sure. The Dharma and the Sangha and all the Buddha's are here for the ride. Everything is fine. Now your quest ... where to start? ... I have a list too ... somewhere ... in fact I have a story:
Ollie Octopus was sitting in the 'Very Full Lotus', which as you can imagine with eight limbs is very impressive. Lobster was leaning forward attentively perched on a rather interesting rock and waiting patiently for some helpful advice.
"Make errors," advised Ollie Octopus as if selling a precious tentacle.
"What?" Lobster slid off the rock; claws clicked. Landing on his back, many legs were twitching and a strange gurgling noise mixed with bubbles, was frothing from his mouth. He was also turning a pre-cooked red.
"Make errors!" repeated the Octopus with great certainty.
"But . . . but . . . " spluttered the Lobster.
The Octopus leaned carefully forward. "How else will you be corrected? When corrected all is made right."
The Lobster righted himself, his eyes bulged as he stroked his whiskers. Finally he said, "You mean we should make mistakes deliberately?"
"Oh no!" said the Octopus laughing, "that comes naturally. We just have to admit our mistakes . . . "
"But then we would look a fool . . . " said the Lobster looking around, ensuring no stray fish had seen the fall.
"Did you just fall off that rock?" asked Ollie Octopus fixing a very large and unblinking eye on Lobster.
"Well . . . " said Lobster crossing his claws and swishing his tail from side to side, whilst thinking of an explanation. Lobster realised he did not like to admit he had fallen. "I fell off the rock!" admitted the Lobster forlornly, his tail sadly down. A rather silly fish giggled as it swam past. Lobster no longer cared.
"Thank you," said the Octopus beaming as if receiving all the treasures of Atlantis.
"You want my mistake?" asked the Lobster incredulously.
"What was my initial advice?" enquired the Octopus.
Lobster thought hard, 'What was it again?'
"Give up giving," remembered Lobster straining his little mind.
"Well now I advise . . .," began the Octopus, "Take what is not given."
"Stealing?" shouted the Lobster flicking his body into motion and waving his claws in consternation. He was turning a familiar shade of pinky red.
The Octopus smiled.
"Few will give up their burdens and attachments easily. This is why we find skillful means to remove their hindrances. Just as we deal with our own and learn about the nature of suffering. The reason we have to steal others karma is because we can own it, even though others may still be playing with it."
Lobster though for a while and then smiling asked, "We have to steal their bad karma before it comes our way? So I guess it is in our best interests?"
"Yes indeed," The Octopus assured Lobster and continued, "Perhaps you have heard of the 'Eight Verses on Thought Transformation'?"
"I don't think so," said Lobster trying not to think of empty sardine cans and other trivia.
"I may also recite the commentary by the Dalai Lama," offered the Octopus.
"What is the Dalai Lama - is it a kind of squid?" enquired the Lobster, stroking his whiskers wisely as if he knew of such things.
"Well it is a sort of squid that does not live in water," explained the Octopus.
Lobster laughed.
"Does not live in water! We have legends of such creatures but they are just stories told by mermaids."
Lobster laughed some more and finally asked, "What are the 8 verses?"
http://www.khandro.net/practice_8verses.htm
http://www.dalailama.com/teachings/training-the-mind
As far as priorities go:
keep your eyes, ears, and heart open for a qualified master / teacher / guide / spiritual friend.
Take sincere refuge in the Three Jewels (The Buddha, the Dharma = teachings, the Sangha = supreme assembly, or beings who have stabilized realization)
-Relax, breathe and be curious...
What is control?, and what is being in control about, really?
...\lol/...
Excellent advice. In essence this is the basis of a formal practice.
When I first started, I would read the beginners books. Meditation for Dummies, that sort of thing. I would read the complex stuff but the beginners stuff again and again.
My theory was and it applies to most fields, to write simply about a complex of ideas one has to understand and know it well.
I could not meditate. I did it and it was calming but it was always an effort. Now it is at ease.
Nothing complicated. Very simple. Find path, walk path. Walk together - easier.
Start with right view.
Contemplate anatta.
Wot no questions? Your verbal barrage is obviously internal. Good plan! About now you are probably wondering what you have got yourself into ... LOL
As a boddhisatva [just a hobby] I know exactly, in an imprecise sort of way, what to listen to and more importantly what not to hear.
Listen to the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. Everything is fine. Off to do some kind stuff [another hobby] ...
The posts that I've seen thus far have given me a lot to work on. Thank you all for your input
I think the best way is to just go where you are drawn to. I don't think you need to work on the whole Eightfold Path immediately. For example, you might feel a strong need to work on your speech, for whatever reasons. I've found that what interests me in these matters is almost a compass for where I need to grow.
Yes, I agree. I think people are confused about where to start because there's no manual.
Seriously, The Bible begins 'In the beginning was the word..." and you go on from there.
Virtually every major religion, has a 'textbook' for reference.
Sure, we have the Pali Canon, but even then....Ohiiii.....
Many are advised to stick to the basics of the Buddha's First Sermon in Deer Park, where he expounded the 4 and the 8 to his previous companions, who ultimately became his first 'disciples'.
The 4 are actually far more complex than they first appear... We have had many discussions on the forum relating to dukkha, what it exactly means, how it exactly affects us and how exactly we deal with it, face it, transcend it and let it go....
And I don't think we're done with the discussions yet.
By comparison, the Eightfold path is actually less complicated.
It hinges on personal evaluation, perception and implementation, but each factor is pretty clear-cut: Do 'whichever one it is' with Mindfulness, skill and Compassion.
So I personally think 'Beginning' is best done by 'watching', or 'observing'.
Your Thoughts, your Words and your Actions.
Evaluate them and adjust accordingly.
Then, other things will arise, reveal themselves and bode further investigation....