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The elephant in the room.

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Comments

  • @vinlyn said:
    This boggles the mind:

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/20/us/caucasian-heritage-night/index.html

    especially some of the responses!

    (sigh) Yes, I have a guy who lives across the street who once thought I wanted to hear his complaints that "whites" should have a "white history month" or some sort of celebration and should be able to have their own exclusive white clubs to celebrate their "heritage". After all, African Americans do it.

    I told him we do have our own celebrations. They're called Thanksgiving, and Independence Day, and Christmas, among others. Whose culture did he think those days were celebrating? Certainly not the African American culture. Certainly not the Native American culture.

    vinlyn
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    @genie I do have faith. But having faith in humanity to do the right thing doesn't do anything for the world we live in right now, today. There are ways to bring change to the world, to bring balance, now. Obviously discussing here doesn't do much. You never know, there are many people who lurk and don't post, perhaps they get something out of discussions and we never know it. Mostly, we are preaching to the choir here.

    But what I learn here and in the rests of my practice moves with me into my life more every day. How I raise my children, how I interact with my family and my extended families, how I interact with my community has all changed because of Buddhism, because of things I have only learned here on this forum. So change happens. My children will go out into the world with different experiences and understandings than I had. I push them out of their comfort zones to experience other cultures and see things from other perspectives. I try to teach them how to take action in whatever small ways they can rather than just talk about issues. So I have faith, because I know a lot of other people raising children in much the same way, and so those children will go out into the world and impact the people closest to them, and that is how things spread.

    But, for every parent who tries hard to open their children's minds and hearts, there are parents who teach hatred and intolerance and fear. So yes, I have faith. But I know it's still a very long road ahead. One baby step at a time. But when things like the Charleston massacre happen, the baby steps don't seem like enough anymore.

    lobster
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    @genie said:
    Just like slavery disappeared, these demons will also disappear. Give it time. Rome wasn't built in a day. Have some faith in humanity.

    It's good to be optimistic, but it's bad to be naive.

    Yes, over time humanity has moved forward, although it's often been two steps forward and one step back.

    But all that optimism didn't help the roughly 12.5 million Africans who were enslaved and put on ships bound for the Western Hemisphere. It didn't help the roughly 2 million of those men, women, and children who died on the journey. It didn't help the remaining 10 million who lived all or most of the rest of their lives as property, often living in the worst conditions humans could encounter. Less than half a million of those slaves ended up in the United States. And even after the Civil War, Blacks in the United States did not achieve any real degree of equality for over another century, and that equality has yet to be fully realized...by a long shot. It's inconceivable to me that we have a Black president, but on the other hand, in recent months we have continued to see how police so often treat Black people.

    There's an old saying that applies here: Justice delayed in justice denied. And all the optimism and all the progress doesn't help whole groups of people (almost any groups of people of color) from escaping being second class citizens.

    karastilobsterHamsaka
  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    @vinlyn said:.......It's good to be optimistic, but it's bad to be naïve. Yes, over time humanity has moved forward, although it's often been two steps forward and one step back...

    Yes. It could be safe to say, that getting everyone to believe the same stuff and change the world is a whole lot like herding cats. Iow - impossible. O.o

    vinlyn
  • geniegenie Explorer

    @federica said:
    So far it's taken approximately 1,009,491 days to build Rome. This is based on the traditional founding of the city (21 April 753 BCE), but we should also consider that the city has been sacked and rebuilt several times. So, "Not in my lifetime" springs to mind...I mean, when you consider how long 'humanity' has walked the earth, and just how long these conditions have existed, and how it's only recently that Consciousness has arisen in the minds of some.... How long do we have?There are still barbaric and inhuman practices going on, globally. Rooting them all out and exposing them, eliminating them and changing minds.... well... History would seem to indicate that it's going to take more than a website discussion forum to navigate and effect a change...

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world.
    -Mahatma Gandhi

  • geniegenie Explorer

    @vinlyn said:

    You're expecting too much, too soon. If humanity has gone from lynching African-AMericnas to electing one of them as president, isn't that progress? Social progress takes place in baby steps, much like the progress we make in meditation.

    person
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Again with this "African-American" label...
    They are American, full stop and end of story. While we verbally segregate them all into one 'specialist' group (often erroneously) we demonstrate a degree of unacceptable separation.
    Quit isolating them!

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    Apparently you lead a rosy life.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2015

    And Barack Obama is more white than black...

  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    edited June 2015

    Most black folks I'm around refer to themselves as black. Those things you would have to be around to know...but if your white...just say black. It's ok. African American is formal and kinda outdated now.

    Obama is technically bi racial...but because of the one drop rule..:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

    It's socially running out of steam with the younger generations...but it pretty much still stands. Especially in the south and in mostly white areas...and the 'establishment'. That's how that Rachel chick was able to fool white folks in WA. Little curly hair and a little brown/orange skin...made her 'pass'. SHe didn't try that shit in Atlanta or DC...she would have been outed long ago...

    Hamsaka
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Sometimes we make progress in leaps, when the right group of people end up in office, sometimes legal change comes swiftly (sometimes for the better of humanity, sometimes not). The electing of President Obama has also brought the issue of racism in the US to a forefront again. The number of people making racist comments and death threats against the president and his family for being black has been astounding. We may have elected a non-white president, but the same people who are fighting for the confederate flag have constantly fought against Obama and hurt the people of the US and I don't for a second believe it is entirely because he is a democrat.

    Make sure to point out to the families of the 9 dead folks that "well, we elected a black president, so we've made progress, just be patient!"

    Vastmindvinlynlobster
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/11-ways-white-america-avoids-taking-responsibility-its-racism

    I am white. I write and teach about what it means to be white in a society that proclaims race meaningless, yet remains deeply divided by race. A fundamental but very challenging part of my work is moving white people from an individual understanding of racism—i.e. only some people are racist and those people are bad—to a structural understanding. A structural understanding recognizes racism as a default system that institutionalizes an unequal distribution of resources and power between white people and people of color. This system is historic, taken for granted, deeply embedded, and it works to the benefit of whites.

    ~author of the article

    lobsterHamsaka
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    Of course, I just wonder why -- as a White person -- she thinks she came up with all the right questions and answers.

    lobster
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Yeah, it's kind of a strange thing. White people can intellectually understand and learn, but it seems to me that along with many other things, racism isn't something you can truly understand solely from an intellectual standpoint. Not that she doesn't have good points, but I think when one cannot experience something that limits perspective quite a bit.

    It makes me wonder what that lady who was just in the news thinks of it. She's white but attempted to live life as a black person and immersed herself in black culture. Did she experience racism directed at her? And how did that make her feel knowing she was white but might have been treated otherwise? Kind of a strange thing.

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    To me these things are to do with identity and empathy. In other words I can identify with an identity but I can not live the uniqueness of others experience as women, black or mass murderer. I can choose to empathise to the best of my ability.

    <3<3<3 What heartens me about this situation is the dignity and efforts of the Church members effected, the legislature at the preliminary hearing made an awesome statement from the heart. The family, community and church effected are an inspiration.

    Entrenched goodwill will overcome some day. Iz plan! <3<3<3

    karastisilver
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I just read this and found it interesting. An article written by a man who was out running and saw his neighbors confederate flag, and his thoughts on racism and culture.

    https://medium.com/@thejohnprice/yes-you-re-a-racist-and-a-traitor-6c4bb12c5b63

    "He (Dylann Roof) is a Confederate in every sense of the word: he is a white supremacist; he is a mass murderer; he is a terrorist; he is a traitor.

    The worst part is that he is not some aberration. Oh, we want to comfort and assure ourselves that he is, that he has some mental issue, or that he’s evil, or some other easy excuse that absolves us all of responsibility.

    His actions were heinous, but he is the product of a media and culture that protects the ignorant and glorifies division. This is the “heritage” celebrated by those who fly the Confederate flag. By those like my neighbor.

    And every day that we don’t react to that information, every day we don’t internalize this conflict, every day we tell ourselves nothing is wrong, every day we claim we can’t be racist because we have black friends, every day we share some viral cat video instead of watch the news… is another day nothing will change."

    I found his last point interesting...sharing cat video instead of watching the news...when in sections of his articles he blasts our media and news for protecting the ignorant. Why then tell them to watch the news? LOL I don't think watching the news is going to solve the problem. But he made other good points.

    lobsterCinorjer
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    There is a Sufi saying, 'The greatest revenge on an enemy is to befriend them'

    I have a feeling that somehow the Church effected will be providing a nurturing of this love starved racist. That is The Way. It may seem so strange that great good will come of it, however that is sometimes the way. [shrug]

    VastmindHamsakaBeej
  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran

    True. It's been beautiful to see the love unfolding there.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    I take some small pleasure in thinking that the killer set out to inflame a race war or some such intent but due to his actions the confederate flag is now less acceptable. I do think that shows that the majority of Americans have a desire to be more understanding of the black experience.

    Since Steven Colbert left his show following Jon Stewart a new show called the Nightly Show has taken its spot. The host is Larry Wilmore a 50sish? black man. A large focus of the show revolves around the many racial issues in the news today. I've found getting this regular dose of the black perspective very helpful for my own understanding and empathy.

    Vastmindlobstersilver
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I'm going to stick my neck out, and mention something I have noticed - MOST certainly here in the UK.
    We're big on 'Prejudice' here in the UK.
    It's a legal offence to now openly, publicly and professionally demonstrate any obvious and blatant form of prejudice. Be it related to gender, sex, age, colour, or religion.
    And quite right too.
    Companies and businesses have been held to task, taken to court, and prosecuted for any of the above forms of discrimination however overt and evident or subtle and covert they have been.

    Two things are now happening.

    One: People are becoming so scared of being 'politically incorrect' that we are climbing into our own backsides in efforts to demonstrate how NOT prejudiced we are, that our very lives and frontiers are being violently threatened, and our daily comings-and-goings are being curtailed for fear of merely 'saying' the wrong thing, being misinterpreted and vilified for having an opinion.
    So many discussions begin with the phrase "Well, I'm not prejudiced, but...." whereupon the person expresses fear, unrest and un-ease at some event tied in with an incident which happened to involve someone - predominantly - of either a different colour, or sexual persuasion.
    We're walking on egg-shells. We're terrified to state our opinions and say what we feel, and in the meantime, we are being absolutely flooded to the gunnels with illegal immigrants and those who will stop at nothing to make demands upon our society, purse, way of life, national security and "British" stability.
    We subscribed to Human Rights and are now fighting an overwhelming tide of change with both hands tied behind our backs and it absolutely terrifies many, many people.

    Two: In an effort to demonstrate just how unbiased it is, the two mediums of main entertainment - TV and Radio - have fallen over themselves in efforts to show how very PC they are, by ensuring that every single programme they broadcast, has a prominent - not to say dominant - element of "minority" representation.
    Every single soap opera, news broadcast or entertainment programme is either fronted and/or presented by or has strong involvement of someone of different colour, religion, nationality or sexual persuasion to the point that that very element is being shoved down our throats.
    It's almost a prerequisite that you need to be gay, camp, or of ethnic origin in order to succeed. You cannot watch a single 'typically British' soap opera, without a reperesntation of a minority group being central or pertinent to the general plot.
    We even have programmes such as Emmerdale' or 'The Archers' ("an everyday story of country folk") being heavily subjected to elements which actually, ordinarily and in real life, simply do not happen, because it's extremely rare, if not unheard of, to find a Jamaican dairy farmer, or a Sikh sheep farmer. And every other character has something to hide - or blatantly expose - 'in their closet'... Yet this is what is being projected and portrayed, in an effort to appease the PC lobby.
    This is known as 'Positive Discrimination' and is rife and prevalent.

    I work for an extremely well-known department store.
    We have 150 (approximately) employees, only two of which are of ethnic origin.
    This isn't due to any form of discrimination.
    We have one visually impaired woman working for us, three profoundly deaf members of staff, one physically disabled gentleman, with special needs and three people who are medically exempt from specific tasks due to an impairment or specific condition.
    We simply do not have the regional profile of people that would enable the company to employ more people from minority groups.

    The UK is in my opinion, a wonderful country to live in. But by very virtue of this fact, it threatens to choke itself to death, and slowly (or not so slowly) squeeze the very life out of its own veins, by appearing willing to eliminate, and eradicate any type of inherent typical Britishness, in an effort to be just, fair and equal to all.
    We want to be righteous.
    And in so doing, we are destroying the very factors which have always stood for the very principles and virtues we represent.

    So sue me. (or as Americans are apparently wont to say, 'Bite me'.)

    silver
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    I am very bothered by the extreme length to which political correctness is going here in this country. Everyone is being jumped on for every little word or phrase.

    I am reminded of an inservice all school administrators were required to attend in our district several years ago. We were a very diverse school system, and it was very needed. It lasted 3 days, and for the most part was excellent. For example, one afternoon was a panel with 4 mothers -- one Black, one Muslim, one Latino, and one Asian. Great discussion, great question/answer session.

    Most of us participating were quite into the overall plan of the meetings. And then something was said that just popped my cork. One of the discussion leaders (paid for her role) said (and I've forgotten the exact topic, so I'll make one up, but you'll still get the gist of it), "When you have an aggressive Muslim father being unpleasantly forceful in a parent conference, you must think..." In meetings I had a tendency to sit back and listen (not as bad as Clarence Thomas, but I was rarely outspoken). But upon that comment I interrupted and said something along the lines of, "Wait just a minute. Are you the thought police? Who the hell are you to tell me what I must think? Your job may be to tell me how I must act because as a principal I am still a paid employee, but it is none of your damn business what I think. In my job I may not have free speech, but I know of nothing in my contract that takes away freedom of thought." The poor presented looked stunned and called for a break so she could consult with the team leader. After the break she came back and said something along the lines of, "Mr. Lynch is correct. It is not the job of our company to tell you what you must think. And no official of ------- County Public Schools will ever tell you what you must think. Everyone here has freedom of thought. Our goal is to help you work through what your gut may be telling you and what your professional reaction might be. I apologize for being too aggressive in my comments."

    But, though several years ago, this is another example of this political correctness influenza that is inhibiting free speech, and now even beginning to inhibit free thought.

    It's not that I think people should go around offending everyone about everything they are thinking. People ought to edit their own speech to make it as "right" as it can be under a given situation. We ought to speak in a way that is as unoffensive as possible out of pure courtesy, let along religious convictions. When someone opens their mouth to speak, I don't always expect violets to flow out. Sometimes the truth hurts (as the old saying goes), but we ought to try to express the truth in as palatable a manner as we can.

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited June 2015

    I will be changing my way of thinking.

    Whether that is dharmically, politically, outwardly, inwardly or any other way labled ... Pah! In fact pah with side serving of Ha! :p

    ... and now back to the dancing ...

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2015

    ...."Whether."

    A 'Wether' is a castrated ram.

    :tongue:

    Paha. (n) to laugh out loud so strangely that the laugh develops a dialectical indifference, notably identical to the laugh of an average high school female.

    lobster
  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran
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