Best Of

*** In this post I will be talking about poker. I do not recommend that anyone play poker, especially from a Buddhist perspective. Feel free to not read this post, especially if you have addiction problems in general or gambling problems in particular.

I've been occasionally following along with this thread but did not think I had anything to contribute since I did not believe I play games, except on occasion. However, I just realized I made a game into a livelihood, talking about a blind-spot! I also wrote in my journal thread that I would open the topic of my poker-playing at some point, so here goes.

For the last a bit over 5 years I've been playing online poker and learning about good strategies for winning players, which I've been. I started as an "amateur" playing for peanut-stakes and as my knowledge increased moved up in stakes to where these days I can support myself fully by playing a few hours a day and watching training videos for in average another hour. My main source of income for the last 2.5 years has been poker (with a stint with working too).

I've always been profitable so there is no element of losing money. I only paid in 50$ and grew my bankroll from winnings. At least, that's something good. I am not rich, currently I can barely sustain myself, but I can. To give you some idea: when I was very focused on poker about 2 years ago and the games were good because of Covid, I made around 3 average salaries, while now when it's less in focus, and the games are tougher, I make around an average salary. Keep in mind that these are averages, with poker you do not "get a paycheck".

For those less knowledgeable about poker, a few points I believe are important:

• Short-term (hours, even days or sometimes weeks), poker has a big element of luck and a big element of skill. Long-term (weeks, months, years...) the luck evens out and it's all skill.
• Poker is a computer-solved game and we know what good strategies are. Hence, poker can be learned as any other skill. These days, the best players are "geeks" who spend hours every day learning computer-strategies and trying to emulate them, not Texas-cowboys with big hats and guns on the table. Think chess, not roulette.
• While some develop a gambling problem, many do not, and from what I can gather from youtube etc. the top players treat it as any other mental-sport and are not degenerate gamblers. There is some scientific proof for this view as well.
• Playing on online-sites is safe, secure, etc.

The pros of what poker has given me:

• after my mental health breakdown, clear confirmation that my brain/mind is good. I always considered myself as a strong intellectual, so it was nice that I could excel in an intellectual discipline. Whether you are good or bad at poker is very clear in the long-run, just watch your results.
• for the first time in my life, a gut-feeling certainty that I can support myself. Working jobs, I was always concerned that with my sketchy mental-health my job position was very insecure (mostly that I would break-down again and quit).
• Excitement, something to do, something rational to learn, money (with the added excitement that with effort to learn I could earn much more than in a normal job according to my degree)

The negatives:

• Being constantly socially criticized and only rarely praised.
• Sometimes, having to hide that I play poker.
• Socially, being "out of place", different to others, not making social connections based on shared interest/work.
• It's a loners lifestyle, since I play online.
• I am very much afraid of becoming addicted. I've become addicted to some things in the past so know how difficult it is to break an addiction. Currently, I do not think I am addicted, but there might be elements of addiction too.

I find that I excel and feel secure in "closed-systems" - such as games - which are not open-ended. With poker, we can learn the correct strategy, the goals are known, there are a limited number of rules. With jobs - and life in general - everything is much more unclear, even the goals are often unknown, there are an infinite number of (job-related, social, technological...) rules, some of which we know, some of which we don't - so I feel less secure and more anxious.

The short and to-the point version of my conclusion today is:

• I would like to work at a normal job
• But, with my anxiety and social anxiety I find this very difficult, deep down, I believe even impossible long-term
• So I continue to play poker but am afraid of becoming addicted
• And am not enjoying the game or lifestyle very much any more
• Plus I notice that poker does not influence my mind well long-term
• Maybe also or even primarily because of all the guilt, shame, anxiety around it...

I will post more another day. Feel free to comment. Thanks for reading.

One of our inclinations is to clamp or tighten around our pain. Relaxing into it is a constant unfolding.

Metta to all our efforts … [applause becomes gently more]

@Jeroen said:
A friend on another Buddhist forum recommended to me to not judge too harshly, and try to approach these behaviours with mindfulness and awareness instead of just dropping them immediately. He said, if you judge the behaviour and you turn your back on it, you end up repressing the passion you once had for it. Instead, try and make the whole cycle of thoughts and feelings associated with it conscious.

Recalling this post from the first page of this topic, I do think passion has a lot to do with it. When I was playing the table-top game Ticket To Ride at my cousin’s house, I noticed being pleased whenever I could achieve one of my small goals, and I was positively glowing at my overall victory. It made me feel much more alive.

Noticing these things as I was playing required a bit more awareness than I usually display, so a little bit of concentration. It was a good exercise in mindful playing, but if anything it makes me feel that challenge and victory and gamey fun are part of feeling more alive.

Which puts me in mind of this…

@Person said:
I'll own up to it, its an attachment of mine. Its good to be reminded of the fact that it does add to delusion. Reflecting, I think I've made the decision (at least for the time being) that trying to live in the world and externally letting go of my attachments leads to me living a miserable life. I'm without any interests and still unable to really achieve meaningful dissolution because I do take care of my responsibilities and that requires me to take on the energy of the world to an extent that removes the spiritual rewards of a tranquil emotional state.

I find I can achieve tranquility if given the peace and quiet in extended stretches, but in a way the world becomes rather flat and grey when I do so. Perhaps really letting go of attachments does lead to this, a world without suffering but also without passions. And games are just the thing that puts colour back in.

The argument between my Buddhist self and my gaming self continues…

It’s definitely true that games still have a draw for me. But that’s what I am doing in this thread, unfolding in detail what it is that draws me, and what my more spiritual side has been telling me about them. I wasn’t really aware of what played with this for me, just that I noticed that even after ten years of not playing games there was still this occasional strong enthusiasm for them, and particularly for role playing games and open-world adventures and strongly story-driven shooters.

I’m kind of hoping that by exploring it, and by making clear the factors that draw me, I can find a release from it — I can find out whether the things that enthuse me have value, or not. The question is whether engaging with games is beneficial in some way. What I was quoting in the “Non-Buddhist quotes” topic yesterday from U.G. about thoughts and them actually being the sum total of your own personal samsara is similar. Games are an exploration of the imagination, all the possible worlds that might be, and as such are an “endless subject”.

I’ve arrived at the point where I found that role playing games satisfied certain needs in me, such as the “need to be needed”, the desire to do good, the desire to explore and be free. In games these things are available in a way that they aren’t in real life. But is that a basic need or some kind of a psychological result of my childhood, some result of a trauma which is as-yet unaddressed or some form of deep-seated conditioning?

I’m toying with the idea of writing a book about it, by now I have a pretty deep understanding of games, and I’ve explored my own perspectives more. It’d be about the history, design, theory and spiritual aspects of games.

Well spotted though, I’ve always enjoyed maker / crafting hobbies. I’ve gone a fair way into pottery and wood crafting in the past but currently lack a good place for a workshop. When I was young I used to love Lego, I had this big basket full of pieces and would make all sorts of things. It was the imagination, making something and then using it in an imaginary adventure with other pieces.