@Jeroen said:
Instead it occurs to me that truth is something of the heart… it too is mysterious, but even as you know who you love, your heart knows the truth when it hears it. It is like a little silver bell that rings, telling you to pay attention.
So if the little bell telling me to pay attention tells me this doesn't sound true, what does that mean? My intuition says level of conviction isn't correlated with level of validity. But if my intuition is true about that statement then how can it tell me its wrong? Its like what would happen to Pinnochio's nose after he said, "after this sentence my nose will grow."
I think this is mostly semantics about the definition of truth. As Christopher Hitchens claimed, is truth what remains even when you don't believe in it? Or is truth solely in the mind of the beholder? If you see Jesus in a piece of toast its true for you?
person
"If you want to control a people, create an imaginary enemy that appears more dangerous than you, then present yourself as their savior."
~Noam Chomsky~
Shoshin1
Oh ok, no, it’s true that it’s a little more out there for a Buddhist forum, but then we have hosted other things which diverge from Buddhism, like political discussion, activism, talks on psychedelics, psychology, addiction, people’s morning walks, reading habits, family health travails and so on.
But I thought this quote had an interesting double layer to it, that one may smile and yet be a villain capable of murder… you can see it in the conjunction of Putin’s politics and his warfare. Or in Israel’s presence in and mastery of the American news machine and their genocide at home. It seems that it is a highly effective tactic on the world stage.
Jeroen
@Jeroen said:
Well, the Dogen quote is about how one finds enlightenment through Zen. It’s not quite the same thing as my original statement which was about playfulness. And from the statements of the Buddha, I don’t know if enlightenment actually leads to playfulness, or playfulness to enlightenment.I have posted some pieces of Osho talking about Hotei in the Buddhist Quotes thread, which aren’t actually the one known story about Hotei in the official Buddhist texts but they are more Osho expanding upon laughter as the flowering of spirituality. I thought they were interesting, although Osho also gave a treatment of the one official story.
What comes to my mind when talking about playfulness, amusement, spontaneity in a spiritual context are the many realized teachers who are joyful and funny, not at all sticks in the mud. Or from another map, that of Maslow and the self realized individual. An AI overview:
According to Maslow, self-actualization is the highest level of human need, characterized by traits like autonomy, authenticity, creativity, self-acceptance, a sense of purpose, and the ability to have meaningful relationships. Self-actualized individuals also experience peak experiences and a continued freshness of appreciation for life.
Key characteristics of self-actualization, according to Maslow:
Acceptance of self, others, and nature:
Self-actualized individuals embrace their own flaws and imperfections, as well as the strengths and weaknesses of others and the natural world.
Spontaneity and naturalness:
They are authentic and genuine in their thoughts, feelings, and actions, rather than trying to conform to social expectations.
Problem-centered:
They are focused on solving problems and making a positive impact on the world, rather than being self-centered.
Autonomy and independence:
They rely on their own experiences and judgments, rather than being overly influenced by external opinions or authority.
Continued freshness of appreciation:
They experience a sense of wonder and awe in everyday life, seeing beauty and value in simple things.
Deep interpersonal relationships:
They form meaningful and lasting connections with others, characterized by trust, respect, and empathy.
Sense of humor:
They appreciate the absurdity and irony of life, and have a good sense of humor.
Creativity:
They are original, inventive, and expressive in their thoughts and actions.
Moral and ethical standards:
They have a strong sense of right and wrong, and are guided by their own values and principles.
Peak experiences:
They experience moments of intense joy, ecstasy, and awe, often associated with a sense of oneness with the world.
Resistance to enculturation:
They are not easily swayed by societal norms and expectations, and are willing to challenge the status quo.
Unconventionality:
They are not afraid to be different and to express their individuality.
Gratefulness:
They appreciate the blessings in their lives and are not easily discouraged by setbacks.
Purpose:
They have a sense of meaning and purpose in their lives, and are driven by a desire to contribute to the world.
Self-actualization is an ongoing process:
It is not a destination but a journey of personal growth and development.
Maybe you're talking about something slightly different? You referred to Osho, I'm not that familiar with his teachings, I think I remember something about laughing practice or something along those lines. I don't understand it, so its hard to give an opinion about their validity according to my understanding.
person
@person said:
@Shoshin1 said:
@Tozan started a similar threat back in 2021 @person .https://newbuddhist.com/discussion/26878/which-book-are-you-reading
Thanks, I'm going to bump that one up and repost. Please ignore this one, so I don't add unnecessarily to my notifications.
I think you’re going to have to ask @federica to close this thread…
Jeroen
“Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.”
― Alan Watts
I like that this implies that the meaning of the universe is for amusement. It seems a better reason than many… when you are young and go skipping through the park and looking at the clouds while you are full of dreams about what you might do later in your life you don’t appreciate that you are perhaps closer to the real meaning of the universe than many an aged philosopher.
I think as you get older the mind and the brain get clogged up with “facts” and “methods” and “seriousness”… and you lose “magic” and “dreams” and “spontaneity”. The mind becomes a burden, casting the same world that seems wondrous in childhood with somber, dreary and grey overtones. It is what happens to many in old age.
Which is why I love Alan Watts, he has a great and playful understanding.
Jeroen
Since the last thread, I have joined the library and have a book on Linux out at the mo.
Do not really read anything but the endings, which in this case, has tips on bash/terminal scripting (whatever that is).
Also, have ordered a book by a Tree
Wilding – the Return of Nature to a British Farm ~ Isabella Tree
meanwhile...
https://secularbuddhistnetwork.org/the-lotus-library-free-buddhist-ebooks-on-the-internet/
lobster
Odd how this thread hasn't been created yet.
Anyway, this winter I read a non fiction series. It had been a while since I got into one, but it looked like a slower winter, and it was for a couple months. I read the Mistborn trilogy by Brandon Sanderson, it comes up in lots of top 10 fantasy series lists and I think it delivered. I also got Steven Kings Gunslinger series, but have only gotten part way through the first book, it seems good I've just been distracted.
The non fiction books I've read in the past year are, The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth by Jonathan Rauch which is about the institutions such as journalism, law and academia and the systems and methods they use to establish what is true and what isn't and how they are deteriorating or under attack.
The Cancelling of the American Mind by Greg Lukianoff and Riki Schlott. The title is a play on Greg's previous book with Jonathan Haidt, the Coddling of the American Mind, which I read when it came out a few years ago and can also recommend which is about the dangers and harms of "safetyism". Cancelling is similar to the Constitution of Knowledge in that it tackles the deterioration of thought and knowledge production. Even though I think "cancelling" is popularly thought to be a left thing, the right are the original cancellers and the book spends just as much time going into their oppressions on free thought and expression.
At the moment I'm working through Yuval Noah Harari's newest book Nexus: A Brief History of Information Networks. He goes through human information technologies, from face to face group interaction to the printing press, radio and now the internet and AI and how the changes in technology disrupted social systems and allowed for both positive and negative changes, such as radio allowed for both modern autocratic regimes like USSR and modern democracies with a much greater voter franchise than in their origination. He's fairly pessimistic about the likely changes the internet has brought and the potential of AI, which is different than past techs in that they are more than passive tech, they are agents capable of influence themselves. But he does believe there is a path to a positive future.
person