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@Jeroen the US govt may support Israel for those reasons. But shockingly many evangelical Christians here suspect that the end times in the Revelation chapter of the Bible have to do with an Israel in the Middle East. And it could be the state of Israel we have right now, at least in their minds. I don't know the details or like say what percentage of people have those thoughts in mind.

@Jeroen said:
I came across an interesting video of Osho on Islam, which I’ll just paraphrase here…

“I haven’t spoken much on Islam because in order to do so I’d have to disagree with some of its beliefs. Islam’s message is meant for more primitive people; it is like teaching a primary school class, while speaking on spirituality in India is like lecturing at a university. But because the Koran says it is the last word from God to man, there hasn’t been much evolution. The Upanishads have been continually refined and interpreted in new ways over the years, and in order to make progress in Islam there should be new commentaries and interpretations of the Koran. As it is, the Koran is a diamond, but a diamond in the rough, uncut.”

I thought it was interesting, because it reflects some of what we see happening in the Middle East over the decades. Dictators, systems of law where they still behead people, a distinct lack of tolerance. And all of that in one of the most religious societies in the world. The whole idea of a “last word” and “the only book you’ll need” removes a lot of incentive for learning and progress, I think.

great advise, eat what you can chew and spit out what you cant chew
duality, every religion has its good and bad sides. take what is good and ignore its bad side.
but buddhas advise to any teacher, inspect and discern the man with his breath speech or is his talk matches his walk. if his breath speech is off dont follow him. because a foul breath stinks the joint.

Yes, there are verses in the Quran that mention violence, but they are not blanket endorsements of violence.
Many of the verses that mention fighting were revealed during times of war or persecution, and were addressing specific circumstances, like defending the Muslim community from attacks. Ignoring the historical and textual context can distort their meaning.

The Bible, especially the Old Testament, contains many more explicit and detailed descriptions of violence, including genocide, conquest, and divine retribution.

The West seems to have learned little from centuries of Judeo-Christian, God-centric belief systems. Just look at the sheer scale of cruel and suppressive violence inflicted on the Global South, from colonisation and slavery to coups, sanctions, and endless wars. Moral superiority rings hollow when these legacies remain unacknowledged or ongoing.

@Jeroen said:
Hmm I have read the Koran, and it actively advises violence against unbelievers. There were also certainly documented incidents where Mohammed - when he was converting people and came up against the Jews - started beheading folks when they refused to convert, killing several dozen Jews.

I’m not interested in the Bible, it’s not really taken seriously and the truthfulness of some of the violent accounts in the Old Testament is contested by the historical record. As a spiritual text it’s primarily useful as a record of the words of Jesus, and many people who read it acknowledge that. More to the point you don’t see its adherents blowing up planes or walking into offices and starting killing people.

Although I can certainly understand that you want to broaden the scope of the discussion to all holy books, it is not really what this thread is about. For the record I’d like to see modern interpretations of holy books move away from seeing violence as a means of enforcing religious ideas. Tolerance seems to be the prime virtue of civilisation.

Nice bit of selective framing there, @Jeroen. You tend to focus on Muslims and Islam whenever violence comes up, but you’re starting to sound like those who blame October 7 alone for what’s happening in Gaza now, ignoring everything that led up to it. Much of the instability in the Middle East today stems from Western powers’ interventions, invasions, and support for oppressive regimes. This goes back as far as the Balfour Declaration, which helped set the stage for decades of conflict and dispossession. Cause, condition, effect.

I know this might be hard for you to grasp, @Jeroen, but the Quran itself isn’t a cause of violence, it’s how people interpret and use it that matters. The same can be said for the Christian and Jewish Bibles. Most Muslims read the Quran as a guide to peace and ethical living. The Muslims I know are peaceful, and when I’ve travelled in Muslim countries, I’ve personally found them to be some of the most friendly helpful and generous people I’ve ever met.

Yes, Islam, like any religion, should not be shielded from criticism, it like all other religions has faults. But the question is, why focus solely on Islam? If we’re going to talk honestly about religious violence or extremism, it needs to include all traditions, not just the one that’s easiest to single out in today’s climate. We need to understand the context: historical, geopolitical, and social, behind why and how these expressions of violence emerge.

And the motivation for the War on Drugs was primarily political, it was a mechanism for the Nixon administration to target left wing hippies and young black people and send them to jail. But it’s basically the scenario from Prohibition years, where gangs were enriching themselves by smuggling liquor and it was found to not work.

But the whole drug trade is even useful to the CIA. There was a story Terence McKenna told, about how at a certain point in the 1980s the US market was flooded with lots of excellent quality Afghani hashish, because the CIA were bringing it in by the boatload and bypassing customs in order to generate untraceable income for the agency.

Yes, it would seem that drugs are winning the war on drugs, a war the US has been waging since 1971. Over 50 years later, it drags on with no real victory in sight. Meanwhile, someone is making a heap of money the longer this war continues.
From private prison operators and arms manufacturers to law enforcement contractors and even pharmaceutical giants, there are powerful interests who stand to profit as long as the system keeps cycling people through courts, jails, and rehab centres, without ever addressing the root causes.