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Did Buddha Teach the Tantras and Tantric Sex? And What is this Teaching?
"whether or not tantra ("Vajrayana") is legit Buddhism"
I think it would be easier to understand if this was discussed separately from whether it is moral to rape people.
Fair enough. Not a bad idea. It would separate the highly emotional issue from a more intellectual or scholarly debate.
And if you accuse me of liking women in bikinis you aren't far from the truth.
lol! ^_^ This is not about sex being inherently "bad", btw (in case it wasn't clear to some readers.)
Back to "which monks practiced this". Each sect has its own tantra. The Gelugs--the Kalachakra, the Sakyas--the Hevajra, the Kagyu--the Chakrasamvara, and the Nyingmas have their own. In the old days, these were practiced with live consorts, and the first two tantras mentioned (if not all four, I don't know for sure) involved 12- and 10-year old (live, not imaginary) girls, respectively. But that was then, this is now. As has been said here before, we can't know for 100% sure that these rituals involving girls are still practiced. But I think the point of the OP is to question the appropriateness that they were ever practiced in a Buddhist context, or that these texts even exist, even if they're practiced via meditation only.
Michael Parenti's report on Tashi Tsering is inaccurate. Tashi Tsering never wrote that he was raped from the age of 9. What he wrote is that he was coerced by a form of tax to join the Dalai Lama's dance troupe at an early age, and that in his teens he had to become the passive sex partner of a gov't official in exchange for sponsorship and the opportunity to get an education. He writes that he didn't see anything wrong with this. In the end, Tashi Tsering fled a life of what amounted to servitude, making his way to India, where by unusual fortune he connected with an American, who helped get him to the US, where he enrolled in the University of Washington (Seattle) and got a BA, with Tibetologist Turrell Wylie as his mentor there. He chose to return to Tibet to press for Tibetan interests against the Chinese regime, and had some important successes. Tsering's book is available on Amazon, "The Struggle for Modern Tibet".
Public Television in the US did do a report on sexual abuse of Tibetan novices back in the late 1990's, and there's an online report by a monk in the Tibetan tradition that I've posted a link to in the past (no need to rehash, is there?)
I think if one is going to devote oneself to correcting popular misconceptions about Tibet, or bringing current abuses to light, one needs to be careful to speak accurately, and have solid sources. I'm not saying that the Kalacakra text Thao has isn't accurate, I think it's an impeccable source. But we can't say for sure from there whether the most heinous rituals are still in active practice. Red flags pop up from time to time (the Shadow of the Dalai Lama book, for one), but I always look for corroborating reports when anything like this comes up. That's all I'm going to say about that for now.
One thing I don't understand. If the sexuality is not directed towards liberation.... which in directed I make a distinction between deceptive and non-deceptive.
A distinction between deceptive and non-deceptive is not the same thing as effective versus non-effective. For example I could be selling love bracelets which I believe produce more vitality. I may not be giving an effective product but that doesn't mean it is deceptive. In the same way that even though my doctor fails to cure my cancer does not mean my doctor was milking me, deceiving me, and so forth.
Ok are you with me? So lets assume the guru is deceptive. Ok that kinda makes sense that they would try to get laid. But how does the guru get involved in that? I mean they could have just get involved in the party scene. I don't know about Tibet but in America it is not that hard to get laid in the party culture. Additionally there are prostitutes. And thats just casual sex.
So the deceptive lama must not only be interested in casual sex. Its not that simple. They must be caught up in the whole mandala of the system. In some sense they are not deceptive at all. They may believe that they are spiritually progressing. They may have spiritual experiences. They may believe they are helping the girls.
Thao, I wonder what you think of the psychology of the lamas? You seem to just think they are evil. And horny. But that is kinda a flat character don't you think?
If we are going to solve this problem we need to see the problem rather than looking for the easy cop-out of just ranting against Tibetan Buddhism. Without sensitivity to the feelings of TB practitioners I think the action will be less effective.
It would be nice if one of the lamas (a corrupt one) would display themselves as not whole-ly evil. Not whole-ly a dirty old man. If one would display themselves as a compassionate human and speak out about what is truly going on.
There is only so much that can be accomplished by criticizing every aspect of the TB tradition as inferior. The issue of the inferiority must be separated from the issue of criminality/corruption. If someone is killing people and they believe in the kalachakra, the Pali Canon, the Bible, or the Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy. The book is immaterial. The inferiority of the spirituality is immaterial. What is of interest is the corruption and abuse.
In the tantric text commentary that i have, a person practicing it has to have a high level of sexual excitement in order to bring semen into the penis, hold it and then redirect it. it is absolutely sexual because you have to have arousal. and the talk is of the joy of this practice and more joy with a real consort.
but you know i have grown very weary of buddhism. in fact, i quit meditating i know the dangerous of meditation, and i know the dangers of having a lama for a teacher, but only because of what i have read and what women have told me, and this especially goes for Hindu gurus. A guru is a guru no matter whether they are in hinduism or tibetan buddhism.. i am rather fed up with it all.
my plan is to go back to non practice of religion.
is there enlightenment. i really never cared. i came to meditation to experience god, and i experienced what the christian mystics call god, and what buddhist call nothing. but it was the most important experience in my life.
since then i studied the dangers of meditation, and i have talked with people who experienced these dangers, and i am really not interested in any of this anymore.
what bothers me is that people are being hurt badly, and i will always put up a good fight to see that people can read the forums and learn for themselves before joining any abusive group, whether hindu, christian, buddhist, etc.
but there are always men who will put up a big fight to keep these things from being said because they in fact think that tantric sex is good and hope someday to learn it. but i am glad that some of you that are fighting for tantric teachings are at least against abuse. but you don't realize how abusive it is for a woman to be used by a lama in this ritual. what does she get out of it? not much. this is not the same type of relationship that one has in a marriage where the husband takes care of the woman, hopefully, for the rest of their lives and visa versa. this is not the kind of relationship where the man comes home to the woman at night and they enjoy a real relationship. it is a teacher/student relationship, much like one that a woman can have if she is a mistress. the woman's body is only a vessel, she is considered energy and consciousness, and when she gets too old the lama will toss her aside for a younger consort or even have other consorts. why? because he has to continue to be aroused, and the same consort can get boring. a younger woman produces more arousal. this is not religion to me. how would you like to be in a relationship with someone where you have to keep it a secret? where you are only a vessel? where you don't have a real relationship? where you fear to speak out about it for fear of going to hell or being harmed through the psychic powers that a lama claims to have? i knew such a woman who was terribly afraid of her guru's powers. she was a wonderful, sweet lady, but she knew too much of what was going on in the organization, and she feared what her guru could do to her. and if you read of cases that these women talk about with lamas, they are all the same, the threats of death, the fears, suicides.
and so i say again, this is not religion.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
edited June 2011
Thank you, this is much more contructive and persuasive.
Yes, Thao, could you start a thread to discuss the dangers of meditation? I've only read online that it can cause dissociative events in some people, and we had a member once who said she had this problem after beginning a meditation practice. Anyway, it would be an interesting topic, I think, for the "Meditation" category.
Yes, Thao, could you start a thread to discuss the dangers of meditation? I've only read online that it can cause dissociative events in some people, and we had a member once who said she had this problem after beginning a meditation practice. Anyway, it would be an interesting topic, I think, for the "Meditation" category.
I had written a long article on the Dangers of Meditation, and then my ex teacher tried to convince me at the time that there were no dangers. I took down my blog, and yesterday I went looking for the information and couldn't find it. I did have Mary Garden's article on my blog, and last night I started a new blog and put it back up. Then I have a dissertation by a psychologist who did interviews with Buddhist teachers. It is lost, but I have to recopy her dissertation. She also allowed me to put it up. It was titled, Meditation-Related Psychosis from the Buddhist Perspective. And I had Dr. Margaret Singer's book and had quotes from it. I have to get her book again and start over. When I believed my teacher I took down my blog thinking i had a copy of everyone on a disk, and i don't. When I get things together I will start a thread on it. I will have to order Singer's book again. She was a psychologist in Berkeley5 who spend 50 years working with people who meditated and had psychological problems as a result, people who never had problems before. My teacher didn't want to read the dissertation and just brushed it off. I should have seen this as a red flag. Since then a thread has been started on it on Zen International, at which they said you need a teacher, and I said, a teacher can not really help. What is done is done when you break down. In India they used to just send the disciples hoe to the U.S. and Europe.
vinlyn, you asked about this somewhere in regards to whether all of these councils accepted tantra: 1. The World Buddhist Sangha Council 2. The World Buddhist Forum 3. The World Fellowship Of Buddhists
I asked a Theravadist:
All of these three Buddhist traditions come together in an ecumenical spirit to work on agreeable common platforms for the common good of all rather than ending up highlighting each others' differences or being co-erced to accept each others' practices, playing in a neutral advisory capacity rather than legally binding manner. See these examples:
http://dhammasukha.pbworks.com/w/page/5 ... isit--2006 In 1998 three great leaders of Buddhism came together for a meeting in Japan to discuss the future of Buddhism in the 21st Century. The outcome was an agreement to create a World Buddhist Council that would meet very two years in this 21st Century. They would meet in one place to discuss the state of Buddhism, cut through cultural differences and traditions and find their common ground in order to work together as brothers and sisters for the benefit of future Buddhist generations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Poin ... 1y%C4%81na The Basic Points Unifying the Theravāda and the Mahāyāna is an important Buddhist ecumenical statement created in 1967 during the First Congress of the World Buddhist Sangha Council (WBSC), where its founder Secretary-General, the late Venerable Pandita Pimbure Sorata Thera, requested the Ven. Walpola Rahula to present a concise formula for the unification of all the different buddhist traditions. This text was then unanimously approved by the Council. 1. The Buddha is our only Master (teacher and guide) 2. We take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Saṅgha (the Three Jewels) 3. We do not believe that this world is created and ruled by a God. 4. We consider that the purpose of life is to develop compassion for all living beings without discrimination and to work for their good, happiness, and peace; and to develop wisdom (prajñā) leading to the realization of Ultimate Truth 5. We accept the Four Noble Truths, namely duḥkha, the arising of duḥkha, the cessation of duḥkha, and the path leading to the cessation of duḥkha; and the law of cause and effect (pratītyasamutpāda) 6. All conditioned things (saṃskāra) are impermanent (anitya) and duḥkha, and that all conditioned and unconditioned things (dharma) are without self (anātma) (see trilaksana). 7. We accept the thirty-seven qualities conducive to enlightenment (bodhipakṣadharma) as different aspects of the Path taught by the Buddha leading to Enlightenment. 8. There are three ways of attaining bodhi or Enlightenment: namely as a disciple (śrāvaka), as a pratyekabuddha and as a samyaksambuddha (perfectly and fully enlightened Buddha). We accept it as the highest, noblest, and most heroic to follow the career of a Bodhisattva and to become a samyaksambuddha in order to save others. 9. We admit that in different countries there are differences regarding Buddhist beliefs and practices. These external forms and expressions should not be confused with the essential teachings of the Buddha.
Ven. Walpola Sri Rahula in 1981 offered an alternative to the Nine-point formula above restating it as follows: * Whatever our sects, denominations or systems, as Buddhists we all accept the Buddha as our Master who gave us the Teaching. * We all take refuge in the Triple Jewel: the Buddha, our Teacher; the Dhamma, his teaching; and the Sangha, the Community of holy ones. In other words, we take refuge in the Teacher, the Teaching and the Taught. * Whether Theravāda or Mahāyāna, we do not believe that this world is created and ruled by a god at his will. * Following the example of the Buddha, our Teacher, who is embodiment of Great Compassion (mahākaruṇa) and Great Wisdom (mahāprajñā), we consider that the purpose of life is to develop compassion for all living beings without discrimination and to work for their good, happiness and peace; and to develop wisdom leading to the realization of Ultimate Truth. * We accept the Four Noble Truths taught by the Buddha, namely, Dukkha, the fact that our existence in this world is in predicament, is impermanent, imperfect, unsatisfactory, full of conflict; Samudaya, the fact that this state of affairs is due to our egoistic selfishness based on the false idea of self; Nirodha, the fact that there is definitely the possibility of deliverance, liberation, freedom from this predicament by the total eradication of the egoistic selfishness; and Magga, the fact that this liberation can be achieved through the Middle Path which is eight-fold, leading to the perfection of ethical conduct (sila), mental discipline (samadhi) and wisdom (panna). * We accept the universal law of cause and effect taught in the Paṭiccasamuppada (Skt. pratītyasamutpada; Conditioned Genesis or Dependent Origination), and accordingly we accept that everything is relative, interdependent and interrelated and nothing is absolute, permanent and everlasting in this universe. * We understand, according to the teaching of the Buddha, that all conditioned things (samkhara) are impermanent (anicca) and imperfect and unsatisfactory (dukkha), and all conditioned and unconditioned things (dhamma) are without self (anatta). * We accept the Thirty-seven Qualities conducive to Enlightenment (bodhipakkhiyadhamma) as different aspects of the Path taught by the Buddha leading to Enlightenment, namely: o Four Forms of Presence of Mindfulness (Pali: satipatthana; Skt. smrtyupasthana); o Four Right Efforts (Pali. sammappadhana; Skt. samyakpradhana); o Four Bases of Supernatural Powers (Pali. iddhipada; Skt. rddhipada); o Five Faculties (indriya: Pali. saddha, viriya, sati, samadhi, panna; Skt. sraddha, virya, smrti, samadhi, prajna); o Five Powers (bala, same five qualities as above); o Seven Factors of Enlightenment (Pali. bojjhanga; Skt. bobhyanga); o Eight-fold Noble Path (Pali. ariyamagga; Skt. aryamarga). * There are three ways of attaining Bodhi or Enlightenment according to the ability and capacity of each individual: namely, as a Sravaka (disciple), as a Pratyekabuddha (Individual Buddha) and as a Samyaksambuddha (Perfectly and Fully Enlightened Buddha). We accept it as the highest, noblest and most heroic to follow the career of a Boddhisattva and to become a Samyksambuddha in order to save others. But these three states are on the same Path, not on different paths. In fact, the Sandhinirmocana-sutra, a well-known important Mahayana sutra, clearly and emphatically says that those who follow the line of Śrāvakayāna (Vehicle of Disciples) or the line of Pratyekabuddha-yana (Vehicle of Individual Buddhas) or the line of Tathagatas (Mahayana) attain the supreme Nirvana by the same Path, and that for all of them there is only one Path of Purification (visuddhi-marga) and only one Purification (visuddhi) and no second one, and that they are not different paths and different purifications, and that Sravakayana and Mahayana constitute One Vehicle One Yana (ekayana) and not distinct and different vehicles or yanas. * We admit that in different countries there are differences with regard to the ways of life of Buddhist monks, popular Buddhist beliefs and practices, rites and rituals, ceremonies, customs and habits. These external forms and expressions should not be confused with the essential teachings of the Buddha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesākha Vesākha (Pali; Sanskrit: Vaiśākha वैशाख) is an annual holiday observed traditionally by Buddhists in Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and the South East Asian countries of Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Burma, and Indonesia. Sometimes informally called "Buddha's Birthday", it actually encompasses the birth, enlightenment (nirvāna), and passing away (Parinirvāna) of Gautama Buddha.
The decision to agree to celebrate the Vesākha as the Buddha’s birthday was formalized at the first Conference of the World Fellowship of Buddhists held in Sri Lanka in 1950, although festivals at this time in the Buddhist world are a centuries-old tradition. The Resolution that was adopted at the World Conference reads as follows: “That this Conference of the World Fellowship of Buddhists, while recording its appreciation of the gracious act of His Majesty, the Maharaja of Nepal in making the full-moon day of Vesak a Public Holiday in Nepal, earnestly requests the Heads of Governments of all countries in which large or small number of Buddhists are to be found, to take steps to make the full-moon day in the month of May a Public Holiday in honour of the Buddha, who is universally acclaimed as one of the greatest benefactors of Humanity"
So no, Theravadins are not expected to be Tantrikas but rather their cooperation are invited and sought in matters where it is agreeable for the common good and benefit of humanity. Hope that clears up the air...
"ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE RECEIVED THE KALACAKRA INITIATION ARE PERMITTED TO READ THIS MATERIAL" This book was written by a well known Tibetan teacher that lived in Tibet before coming to Seattle, Washington. In this book he states:
"If the secrets are not kept, one's head and heart will burst."
"If one keeps the secrets, this water will turn into nectar, which gives rise to the siddhis or realizations; but if one fails to do so, it shall turn into the molten iron of the hell realm. This indicates the great danger of disclosing tantric secrets to those who are not fit to receive them."
From the book: The first empowerment states:
“The First Empowerment—The empowerment of the vase.
The point of this empowerment is to ripen the mind of the trainee. First, one imagines offering a girl, between the ages of 12 and 20, to the vajra master...The vase empowerment is actually given when the imagined girl comes back to the trainee who then enjoys her presence thought laughing and foundling her breasts. Together with this, one offers the mandala and prayers to the vajra master and request the empowerments.
The vase empowerment is actually given when the imagined girl coes back to the trainee who then enjoys her presence thught laughing and fondling her breast. As one touches the girl’s breasts there arises the ‘bliss’ which should be experienced as indivisible from emptiness. .."
“The Second Empowerment:
“one imagines that the secret vajra of the vajra master is places in the mouth of the trainee and ones tastes the white bodhicitta (semen) of the vajra master. This white bodhicitta goes down to the heart-chakra of the devotee and there arises ‘great bliss’.
“The third Empowerment:
“a visualized consort, or dakini-consort, is given to the trainee and they enter sexual union. From this union the white bodhicitta descends from the crown of one’s head. When it arrives at the throat-cakra there arises ‘joy.’ When it descends to the heart-cakra thre arises ‘supreme joy’. When it descends to the navel-cakra there arises ‘extraordinary joy’. And when it descends to the genital-cakra there arises the ‘spontaneous joy’, which is the highest of these four…
With out allowing the white bodhicitta to come out, but retaining it, one experiences the ‘supreme immutable bliss’… To allow the white bodhicitta to come out is actually a root downfall in this tantra.”
Another root downfall:
“Another example of this root downfall would be thinking, ‘Oh, I don’t need the external mudras or objects like the vajra, the bell, and the and-drum because the meditation is all inside.’”
“Kunda is a flower and the white bodhicitta refers to the semen. In the Kalacakra practice, the emission of the semen or the white bodhicitta is the root downfall.”
“The fifth major energy, the pervasive is very difficult to draw into the heart. In order to do so, it is indispensable for the yogin to meditate in union with an actual consort or a dakini. In other words, the reason why it is necessary for the yogin to actually engage in such a practice is to bring that final, pervasive energy into the heart.”
“One actualizes Kalacakra with consort, who are composed of just energy and consciousness and attains the rainbow body.”
This book is 163 pages long, so I only took from it the section that interested me, not going into full detail on the directions for meditation.
So no, Theravadins are not expected to be Tantrikas but rather their cooperation are invited and sought in matters where it is agreeable for the common good and benefit of humanity. Hope that clears up the air...
So, nowhere do I see an endorsement of tantric sex.
I have said it before I think a big problem is the expectations of both the lama and the student. The lama may expect a non-relationship with the student. It is somewhat of a mystery why lamas across the board would enjoy vacuous sexuality and discard their lovers and so forth. It seems kind of a flat character and it lends itself to fantasy.
The females have expectations too which get in the way of a relationship. They expect to have a spiritual attainment from the sexuality other than the present moment. They may expect the relationship to be like boyfriend or girlfriend or husband and wife which is not the reality.
It is understandable that there is expectations not in accordance with reality. That is what is meant by ignorance in the four noble truths (I feel).
I am not interested in the commentary. I am interested in the kalachakra. If we are going through this logically and stepwise we should first examine the kalachakra, the relationships of the kalachakra to TB (current), and the effect of the teachings in the kalachakra (current).
Then we can turn to commentaries and criticisms of the kalachakra.
Just so you can compare... My teacher is female with mostly female students. A more popular Tibetan Buddhist is Pema Chodron. As a break from the studies of the flaws of Tibetan buddhism and guru worship you might listen to a youtube video of Pema Chodron and observe her character and the way she holds herself.
So, nowhere do I see an endorsement of tantric sex.
Vinlyn, I don't understand what point you're trying to make in raising this question, could you please explain? It may seem obvious to you, but I'm not getting it. I commented a page ago that these organizations likely have no idea that some of the practices Thao describes exist, so they're not in a position to endorse or condemn. And according to what Thao has just posted here, it's not they're job to pass judgment on other traditions/sects anyway. That's not what the orgs are for, that's what I understood from Thao's post above. Are you doubting that tantric sex is part of the TB tradition? It's an integral part of the highest practices. If you could clarify what your concern is, we would be better able to address it.
And yes, as Jeffrey points out, there ARE good, ethical teachers in TB. They may be rare (as the Lamrim itself teaches), but they're there. It's too bad that there are so many unethical ones who give the tradition a bad name. And as has been commented on this forum before several times, there's no accountability in the system, so it seems there's no way to clean it up, except, as HHDL says, by having victims go public and to the press with their complaints.
compassionate warrior, that is an assumption that they are rare. What the jewel ornament of liberation says (lam rim) is:
The Spiritual Master
Even though we have the excellent working basis, a precious human life, if we are not encouraged by spiritual masters then it will be difficult to follow the path of enlightenment because of the power of nonviruous inveterate propensities of previous lives and the force of habitual tendencies. Therefore, it is necessary to attend spiritual masters. The summary:
Reason and classification, The characteristics of classification, Method and benefits of attending spiritual masters-- These five compromise attending the spiritual master.
I. Reason. There are three reasons explaining why we have to attend a spiritual master:
A. scripture B. logic, and C. simile.
A. Scripture, First from the Condenseed Perfection of Wisdom Sutra:
The noble disciple who has respect for the lama Should always attend the wise lama Because one receives good qualities from him
And from the 8000 Stanza Perfection of Wisdom Sutra
From the beginning, a bodhisattva mahasattva who wishes to achieve the snsurpassable, complete, perfect enlightenment should meet, attend, and pay respect to spiritual masters.
B. Logic One who wishes to achieve the omniscient state should attend a spiritual master because of not knowing how to accumulate merit or how to purify obscurations. The positive illustration of this is the Buddha of the three times. On the other side are Solitary Realizers. To explain: In order to achieve the complete, perfect Buddhahood, all the accumulations, including merit and primordial wisdom must be gathered. The means to do that depend on the spiritual master. All the obscurations to enlightenment, must be purified. The methods to abandon these obscurations also depend on the spiritual master.
C. Simile. A spiritual master is like a guide when traveling to unknown place, like an escort when going to a dangerous place, and like a boatman when crossing a big river. Explanation of the first simile. When traveling to unknown place without a guide, there is danger of mistaking the path, of losing the path, or straying from the path. When a good guide is followed, then there will be no danger of mistaking the path, no danger of losing the path, no danger of straying from the path. We will reach our destination without wasting any steps. Similarly, when entering the path of unsurpassable enlightenment and going the way of Buddhahood, without a Mahayana spiritual master as a guide, then there is a danger of getting lost on the non-Buddhist path, of mistaking the path for that of the Hearer, or of straying to the path of the Solitary Realizer. On the other hand, if the guidance of the spiritual master is followed, then without mistaking the path, losing it, or straying from it, we can arrive in teh city of omniscience. It is said in Srisambhava's life story:
The spiritual master is like a guide who leads one on the path of perfection.
The second simile is of a dangerous place which holds the threat of harm from robbers, thieves, wild beasts, and so forth. When going to such places without an escort, there is danger to one's body, life, and welath. With a proper escort, one can reach the destination without any danger. Likewise, by entering into the path of enlightenment and aspiring to the city of omniscience by gathering the great accumulations of merit and primordial wisdom without a spiritual master as an escort, there is danger of losing the life of favorable conditions and of losing the wealth of virtue to thieves and robbers--the inner discursive thoughts and afflicting emotions and the outer maras, evil spirits and so forth. It is said:
When the crowd of robber-like emotions gets a chance, it will rob your virtues and will even take your life in favorable conditions.
But if you are not separated from a spiritual master, who is like an escort, you will approach the city of omniscience without losing your wealth of virtue or having your life of favorable conditions taken away. Thus, it is said in Srisambhava's life story:
All the merits of bodhisattvas will be protected by the spiritual master.
The life story of Upasaki Acala says:
Each spiritual master is like an escort who takes you to the state of omniscience.
The third simile: When crossing a big river aboard a boat without a boatman, you will not cross to the other side because the boat will either sink under the water or be taken by the river current. With a boatman, you will cross to the other shore by his efforts. Likewise, when crossing the ocean of samsara without a spiritual master to act as a boatman, then even if you enter into the boat of the holy Dharma, you will be carried by the current of samsara or will drown in samsara. It is said:
The boat will not take you to the other shore of the river without a boatman. Even if you have the complete qualities, you will not be freed from samsara if you are without a lama.
So therefore, if you attend a spiritual master who is like a boatman, you will reach the dry bank of nirvana on the other side of the ocean of samsara. Planting the Noble Stalk Sutra says:
A spiritual master is like a boatman who crosses the ocean of samsara.
Therefore, you should attend spiritual masters who are like guides, escorts, or boatman.
II. Classification. There are four classifications of spiritual masters:
the ordinary spiritual master, the bodhisattva spiritual master who has attained certain bhumis, the Nirmanakaya spiritual master, and the Sambhogakaya spiritual master.
These four types are related to an individual's spiritual realizations. When one is ordinary or just beginning, one cannot attend Buddhas and bodhisattvas who have attained higher levels as spiritual masters, so one attends an ordinary spiritual master. When one's karmic obscurations are purified, one can attend a bodhisattva spiritual master who has attained the higher levels. After one accomplishes the great accumulation path, one can attend a Nirmanakaya spiritual master. When one attains the bodhisattva's level, one can attend a Sambhogakaya master.
Of these four, who is the greatest benefactor? When we are in the obscuring darkness of the karma of afflicting emotinos we have no opportunity to even see the face of a superior spiritual master, so how could we attend one? By meeting ordinary spiritual masters, receiving the light of their teachings and shining it on the paths, one will gain the opportunity to see the superior spiritual masters. So therefore, the greatest benefactor for us is the ordinary spiritual master.
C. Ordinary Spiritual Masters. There are three types of ordinary spiritual masters: those who possess eight qualities, those who possess four qualities, and those who possess two qualities. Concerning the first one, Bodhisattva Bhumis says:
One should understand that a bodhisattva who has eight qualities is a perfect spiritual master. What are the eight? One who possesses moral ethics of a Bodhisattva, is learned in the bodhisattva's teachings, possesses realization, possesses compassion and kindness, possesses fearlessness, possesses patience, possesses and indefatigable mind, and is expert in verbal expression.
The second is described int the Ornament of Mahayana Sutra:
Possessing great scholarship and dispelling doubt, Whatever he says is acceptable, distinguishing the two realities This is a perfect bodhisattva spiritual master.
"Possessing great scholarship" refers to being able to give more extensive teachings because of vast wisdom. The spiritual master can dispel doubt because he has profound discriminating awareness. His words are acceptable because his action is pure virtue. He explains the primary characteristics of afflicting emotions and of their purification. The third is portrayed in Engaging in the Conduct of Bodhisattvas:
A spiritual master is always Expert in the Mahayana teachings. He will not abandon the bodhisattva's vow Even at the risk of his own life.
In other words, a spiritual master is learned in the Mahayana vehicle and holds the bodhisattva's vow.
Of course Jeffrey what you have written is to be expected. If I had the real text and not the commentary, you would argue with it on it too. You would say, well, it isn't the real text or something else. But I am not here to convince you, I am here to let especially women know what it is about, and if they know they can make a better decision, not one that the lama gives to them because a lama will always be for this practice. Women don't always know what they are getting in to when they join a sangha.
IV. Method. When this kind of authentic spiritual master is found there are three ways to attend him. These are:
A. attending him through respect and service, B. attending him through devotion and reverence, and C. attending him through practice and persistence in the teachings.
A. Respect and Service. the first has two subdivisions. Attending him "through respect" means doing prostrations, standing quickly, bowing down, circumambulating, expressing yourself with a feeling of closeness at the right time, gazing at him on and off without satiation, and so forth. The example is how Sudhana, the son of a merchant, attended his spiritual masters. The Planting the Noble Stalk Sutra says:
One should never be satisfied by gazing at the spiritual master because it is difficult to see spiritual masters, it is rare for them to appear on the earth and it is difficult to meet them.
Attending the spiritual master "through service" means to offer him Dharmic food, clothes, bedding, seats, medicine, and all other types of necessary things even at the risk of one's body and life. The example is the way Sadaprarudita attended spiritual masters. It is stated in Srisambhava's life story:
The enlightenment of a Buddha will be achieved through service to spiritual masters.
Jeffrey: Here is an example I think of how a student may behave (one example one personality)...
B. Devotion and Reverance. To attend him "through devotion and reverence" means that one should regard the spiritual master as the Buddha. One should not disobey his teachings. One should develope devotion, respect, and a clear mind. The example is the manner in which Naropa attended his spiritual masters. The Mother of Victorious Perfection of Wisdom says:
You should persistently, repeatedly, and constantly revere spiritual masters. Be very generous with them and cherish them.
Furthermore, one should avoid wrong view toward the skillful actions of spiritual masters. Instead, one should respect them highly. For example, refer to the life story of Kng Anala.
C. Practice and Persistence. Attending him "through practice and persistence int he teachings" means to truly integrate and practice the teachings of spiritual master through hearing, contemplation, and meditation practice and through persistence. This will make the spiritual master supremely pleased. The Ornament of Mahayana Sutra says:
Attending the spiritual master means practicing whatever is taught By this, he will be completely pleased.
One will achieve Buddhahood when the spiritual master is pleased. As it says in Srisambhava's life story:
When you please the spiritual master, you will achieve the enlightenment of all the Buddhas.
There are three steps to receiving the teachings with bodhicitta, the mind of enlightenment. While actually recieving the teachings, you should regard yourself as the patient, Dharma as the medicine, and the spiritual master as the physician. Listening to and firmly practicing the Dharma should be regarded as recovering from a sickness. As a consequence, the faults of being like a pot turned upside down, a leaking pot, and a pot filled with poison will be avoided.
V. Benefits. The beneficial effects of attending a spiritual master are mentioned in Srisambhava's life story:
Noble Family! A bodhisattva who is well guarded by spiritual masters will not fall into the lower realms. A bodhisattva who is escorted by spiritual masters will not fall into the hands of an evil person. A bodhisattva who is well guided by the spiritual master will not turn away from the Mahayana path. A bodhisattva who is well guided by the spiritual master will go veyond the ordinary person's level.
The Mother of the Victorious One Pefection of Wisdom says:
A bodhisattva-mahasattva who is well guided by a spiritual master will quickly achieve unsurpassable, complete enlightenment.
This is the third chapter, dealing with the spiritual master, from The Jewel Ornament of Liberation, the Wish=fulfilling Gem of the Noble Teachings.
Women don't always know what they are getting in to when they join a sangha.
That's for sure! Posting about such topics, IMO, is simply preventive medicine, getting the "caveat emptor" word out. Always research your teacher before joining, check him/her out on the internet. The Dalai Lama has said it's ok to "spy" on your teacher, meaning, I think, putting an ear to the ground to see what kind of gossip may be circulating. OR you can join one of those rare sanghas that actually has strict ethical rules in place, and the students' well-being at heart. Spirit Rock, and any sangha associated with DharmaPunx and Against the Stream are like that.
Jeffrey, that's very interesting about how own is supposed to progress to ever more realized teachers, I'd never heard that. It can be tough to find good, trustworthy ones (especially for women, since most are male), so I can't imagine going through the extensive vetting process four times. But I guess if one is dedicated to that particular path, one does what one has to do, and hopes that appropriate teachers are able to be found.
I have said it before I think a big problem is the expectations of both the lama and the student. The lama may expect a non-relationship with the student. It is somewhat of a mystery why lamas across the board would enjoy vacuous sexuality and discard their lovers and so forth.
Many teachers are ego-driven and haven't achieved non-attachment to cheap thrills. Plus I strongly suspect that word of Trungpa's exploits spread like wildfire throughout the TB community in India & Nepal, which attracted the attention of flawed teachers who made a bee-line for the West.
The females have expectations too which get in the way of a relationship. They expect to have a spiritual attainment from the sexuality other than the present moment. They may expect the relationship to be like boyfriend or girlfriend or husband and wife which is not the reality.
It is understandable that there is expectations not in accordance with reality. That is what is meant by ignorance in the four noble truths (I feel).
Yes, some women become infatuated with the teachers, there's no doubt about that, but the teachers are supposed to maintain professional ethical standards, and not fall for starry-eyed young women rushing to serve them tea with great excitement. I don't think anyone expects a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. The women I've talked to never expected sex to be pushed on them at all. I can't say about the young ga-ga types who are enthralled by the teacher, I haven't spoken to any.
In any case, TB is frought with problems, I'd like to see them addressed and solved by as many constructive means as possible, so people don't have to abandon their tradition, or feel ashamed of it or embarrassed about scandals, or get upset or defensive when malfeasance is brought to light. We should all be able to respect our tradition, whatever it may be.
"But I am not here to convince you, I am here to let especially women know what it is about, and if they know they can make a better decision, not one that the lama gives to them because a lama will always be for this practice. Women don't always know what they are getting in to when they join a sangha."
I commend you. You are doing things based on a good intention whether that is enacted in the wisest way possible I don't know; not everything I have done in this thread and otherwise has been wise. I hope we both keep a good intention and learn. I can see that you have not given up on compassion through your action with women and also men to show them the dangers of certain gurus.
I will share that my sangha is lead by a woman and most of the people in the sangha are women (majority). I have never practiced a tantric teaching in my 5 years with the sangha. I have never seen any. I have received mahayana teachings from a teacher who is approved to teach the mahamudra. What she is teaching me is the basic teachings of buddhism: 3 marks, four noble truths, 8 fold path and so forth. Her teaching is colored by the mahamudra background of course.
"In any case, TB is frought with problems, I'd like to see them addressed and solved by as many constructive means as possible, so people don't have to abandon their tradition, or feel ashamed of it or embarrassed about scandals, or get upset or defensive when malfeasance is brought to light. We should all be able to respect our tradition, whatever it may be."
I agree which is why I wrote to my teacher. Thanks, Dakini.
So, nowhere do I see an endorsement of tantric sex.
Vinlyn, I don't understand what point you're trying to make in raising this question, could you please explain? It may seem obvious to you, but I'm not getting it. I commented a page ago that these organizations likely have no idea that some of the practices Thao describes exist, so they're not in a position to endorse or condemn. And according to what Thao has just posted here, it's not they're job to pass judgment on other traditions/sects anyway. That's not what the orgs are for, that's what I understood from Thao's post above. Are you doubting that tantric sex is part of the TB tradition? It's an integral part of the highest practices. If you could clarify what your concern is, we would be better able to address it.
And yes, as Jeffrey points out, there ARE good, ethical teachers in TB. They may be rare (as the Lamrim itself teaches), but they're there. It's too bad that there are so many unethical ones who give the tradition a bad name. And as has been commented on this forum before several times, there's no accountability in the system, so it seems there's no way to clean it up, except, as HHDL says, by having victims go public and to the press with their complaints.
Let's put it in the Catholic perspective as an example. With the abuse of boys that has occurred so frequently, there are different positions the Catholic Church could have taken: 1. The Church might have said we approve of it or we officially condone it. 2. The Church might have said it is wrong and we don't condone it. 3. The church might have said it is wrong, but we are going to overlook it. 4. The Church might have said it is wrong, but we have no control over our priests.
In Thao's post...well, frankly, not many people are wading through the LONG LONG LONG LONG rants. In my views she (at least on early on) gave the impression that tantric sex is a Buddhist ritual. It is not, and should not be labeled as such.
There is a big difference between some Buddhists do X and X is a Buddhist teaching.
Having sex with children is wrong in Mormon polygamist colonies, it's wrong in the Catholic Church, and it's wrong in an Buddhist community.
If Tibetan Buddhism involves the practices described, then I no longer care to hear anything about any aspects of Tibetan Buddhism. If world Buddhist bodies condone such behavior, then I would consider the conclusion that Buddhism is not a belief system (moral code) that I could honor. If, on the other hand, splinter factions do something that is not under anyone's control...then I can't blame the "mother" body. But to think that an international Buddhist body cannot have the guts to condemn these activities is pure hogwash.
I agree which is why I wrote to my teacher. Thanks, Dakini.
OK, gang, have we reached a truce? We're actually on the same team when it comes to aiming to help students find a safe way to practice, with ethical teachers. I feel like we've achieved something here.
RE: your lamrim quotes: I don't know (I have studied the lamrim), all I know is that someone months ago posted that the Lamrim says that it' very difficult to find a knowledgeable and ethical teacher. It might've been on the "Do SPeak Ill of the Three Treasures" thread, I'm not sure. Anyway, I think it's an important point. It's probably on reason why HHDL and others recommend spending years investigating a teacher before committing to working with him/her. Because it's in the Lamrim, and it's there for good reason, I assume.
IV. Method. When this kind of authentic spiritual master is found there are three ways to attend him. These are:
A. attending him through respect and service, B. attending him through devotion and reverence, and C. attending him through practice and persistence in the teachings.
A. Respect and Service. the first has two subdivisions. Attending him "through respect" means doing prostrations, standing quickly, bowing down, circumambulating, expressing yourself with a feeling of closeness at the right time, gazing at him on and off without satiation, and so forth. The example is how Sudhana, the son of a merchant, attended his spiritual masters. The Planting the Noble Stalk Sutra says:
Attending the spiritual master "through service" means to offer him Dharmic food, clothes, bedding, seats, medicine, and all other types of necessary things even at the risk of one's body and life.
I see a potential pitfall there. I think the part about risking one's body and life (or offering body and life, as it's sometimes stated in books lamas have written) is outmoded. I think the rest of it is a very valuable guideline and clarification.
It depends what you mean by difficult (to find a good teacher). Difficult could mean that it is difficult to find ANY teacher or it could mean that granted you had found a teacher that it is difficult to find one who is ethical.
Even if both are true the meaning of 'difficult' is not quantified. Difficult might mean that 50% of teachers are unethical. 10, 20, 30, 40, 60, 80, 99.
"I see a potential pitfall there. I think the part about risking one's body and life (or offering body and life, as it's sometimes stated in books lamas have written) is outmoded. I think the rest of it is a very valuable guideline and clarification."
I agree. My teacher has never asked me to offer body and life. It may be due to differences in the world at that time. For example it was normal to offer the king body and life. Today it is not normal to offer the president or prime minister body and life. Unless in the military.
In Thao's post...well, frankly, not many people are wading through the LONG LONG LONG LONG rants. In my views she (at least on early on) gave the impression that tantric sex is a Buddhist ritual. It is not, and should not be labeled as such.
There is a big difference between some Buddhists do X and X is a Buddhist teaching.
Having sex with children is wrong in Mormon polygamist colonies, it's wrong in the Catholic Church, and it's wrong in an Buddhist community.
If Tibetan Buddhism involves the practices described, then I no longer care to hear anything about any aspects of Tibetan Buddhism. If world Buddhist bodies condone such behavior, then I would consider the conclusion that Buddhism is not a belief system (moral code) that I could honor. If, on the other hand, splinter factions do something that is not under anyone's control...then I can't blame the "mother" body. But to think that an international Buddhist body cannot have the guts to condemn these activities is pure hogwash.
Thanks for your valuable post, Vin. Allow me to respond. a) Tantric sex IS Buddhist practice, in Tibetan Buddhism, often referred to as Vajrayana Buddhism. It is clearly labeled as such in Vajrayana texts, and portrayed in Tibetan Buddhist iconography. b) "X" IS a Buddhist teaching. But most of "X" is held secret, as we've discussed c)The orgs you mention aren't charged with ethical oversight, AFAIK, and Thao quoted from their literature passages saying they have a policy against criticizing other traditions. THIS IS THE CRUX OF THE MATTER: there is NO accountability in Tibetan Buddhism for rogue lamas/teachers, of which there are many. That's why HHDL told Western dharma leaders to tell aggrieved students to "go to the newspapers and, if necessary, to the police". It's the only way to introduce accountability.
Having sex with children is definitely wrong, but no one is enforcing the rules. Child novices in Taiwan and Sri Lanka have leveled lawsuits against monks and abbots who molest them, but this hasn't happened very often. How it is those boys are able to get legal representation, I don't know. Why can't the Tibetan boys do the same? The time is long overdue for that to happen, OR for some authority in TB to proactively address the potential train wreck in negative publicity for TB, by implementing changes. Children do not belong in housing alongside celibate adults. Ever. Period. Obviously, if the rituals involving girls continue, they should be stopped. A member here PM'd me a month or so ago to say that the Chinese discovered these rituals, and as a result, placed fake monks in the monasteries to keep an eye out for human rights abuses going on in the monasteries. (Yes, I know, kind of ironic...)
What I do know, because it was reported on PBS "MacNeil-Lehrer Newshour" years ago, is that there is a practice that is clearly of Hindu origin but is practiced by Tibetans as well, known as the "kumari" tradition. A "kumari" is a virgin aged 10-12 (if I recall correctly) by tradition. She's treated as a goddess while she's of kumari age, carried by devotees in a palanquin, like the DL used to be, and attends ceremonies and gives blessings. The Newshour reporter asked someone what happens when her stint as kumari is over, when she ages out of "kumari" status? She was told that the kumari goes back to a secular, ordinary life.
What the reporter wasn't told is that on the last day of her kumari status, she is told to come to a ceremony nude, and she will be worshipped by all the men present, and will receive a blessing. Much to her surprise, she's gang-raped by the crowd. This is her introduction to "womanhood", which she officially enters by enduring that "ceremony" and "blessing". This is contemporary practice in India, the kumari that the Newshour filmed was Tibetan, as were many (possibly all) in the crowd following her during a ceremony. We have no idea what happens to these girls, whether their trauma is ever dealt with (not likely), what kind of adults they grow up to be. Same with the 10 and 12-year old who were used in the tantric rituals.
There's nothing in Tibetan Buddhism about kumari festivals or rituals. "Kumari" is a Hindu word.
This is our sad, samsaric planet, Vin, this is the human condition.
Sexuality is part of tantric buddhism. I don't know much about it but there are two types of sexuality: visualization and physical. The goal of tantric sex is to release grasping to the pleasure of the sex. This can be confused with the course goal of sex: pleasure. This is also confused with the higher goal of sex: love. The goal of love is more inline with tantric sex in my opinion because it is motivated by having a more lasting positive outcome of a loving state of mind and support of the two partners in their developement. Similarly the tantric practioner is not: romantic, married, ball and chain, children, dating, attached etc. The goal is to let go of craving for pleasure. There may be other spirituality in the tantric practice such as embodying compassion and wisdom. I speculate that there is a lot of energy during sexuality. One tibetan teacher said that love was one experience that for awhile liberates people from ego; consider the happy feeling you have when you are full of love and how you are more kind and you are more resilient to dissapointments.
Then what happens? A rebound and soon you are disillusioned with your partner due to attachment to the emotions during the love state. The love state is freedom, but people mistake the emotions and pleasure of love for what is valuable. Continuously we expect our romance to make our life 'happy'. When I am married I will be happy. When I have children I will be happy. When I am retired I will be happy. How about we be happy now? (laughs).
Nonetheless there is potential to be deceptive. There is potential to take advantage of women and men by a guru. There is also potential to take advantage of the guru actually. An ethical guru is interested in liberation from grasping. Taking advantage of the guru would be to waste your time at this goal and only have a desire for a fantasy of attainment. The heart sutra says that there is no attainment and thus no fear.
In preparation for tantra there is a long path to reach that. One must know the fundamental yana teachings: 4 noble truths, 3 marks, 8 fold and precepts. One must have taken the bodhisattva vow of working tirelessly for all beings. Without these preparations there is more possibility of becoming harmed by tantra.
Make no mistake that tantra is more dangerous to the mind than the fundamental yana or the mahayana. The purpose is to more rapidly become a buddha for the benefit of beings.
Very good post, Jeffrey. I might add that the other religions had "spiritual sex" practices (it's a discipline, it's not fun-and-games) back around the 1700's, 1800's. Emanuel Swedenborg, the mystic, was one devotee. A number of Christian sects and Judaism has very similar practices to tantric Buddhism/Hinduism. I'm not condoning or condemning, just stating a fact.
The oldest archaelogical settlement had large stones (if I recall my dad's story) larger than in stonehenge and much earlier. It predated agriculture which had been thought to have been the start of civiliztion.
Presumably the hunter gatherers met at some time sort of like the native american potlatchs in the northwest america. Each year they presumably built more structure to the settlement before dispersing.
It is believed that religious practice was the motivation to get together.
(I should ask for my dad to give the name (link) and start a thread)
Tantric sex is NOT the only practice of Tibetan buddhism.
Most people never see that. Tibetan buddhism teaches: meditation, the 8 fold path, the 6 paramitas, the 3 marks of existance, the four noble truths. The five precepts are also important though one is not excluded (from laypersons) if they do not practice all of them. The ten skillful actions and avoiding the ten unskillful are also important. Scholarship of the mahayana canon and debate are also important.
Because one cannot integrate and practice simultaneously all the sutra themes without previously training in each individually, tantra practice is extremely advanced.
The Definition of the Word Tantra
Buddha's teachings include both sutras and tantras. The sutras present the basic themes of practice for gaining liberation from uncontrollably recurring problems (Skt. samsara) and, beyond that, to reach the enlightened state of a Buddha, with the ability to help others as much as is possible. The themes include methods for developing ethical self-discipline, concentration, love, compassion, and a correct understanding of how things actually exist. The tantras present advanced practices based on the sutras.
The Sanskrit word tantra means the warp of a loom or the strands of a braid. Like the strings of a warp, the tantra practices serve as a structure for intertwining the sutra themes to weave a tapestry of enlightenment. Moreover, tantra combines physical, verbal, and mental expressions of each practice, which braid together creating a holistic path of development. Because one cannot integrate and practice simultaneously all the sutra themes without previously training in each individually, tantra practice is extremely advanced.
The root of the word tantra means to stretch or to continue without a break. Emphasizing this connotation, the Tibetan scholars translated the term as gyu (rgyud), which means an unbroken continuity. Here, the reference is to continuity over time, as in a succession of moments of a movie, rather than to continuity through space, as in a succession of segments of pavement. Moreover, the successions discussed in tantra resemble eternal movies: they have neither beginnings nor ends.
Two movies are never the same, and even two copies of the identical movie can never be the same roll of film. Similarly, everlasting successions always maintain their individualities. Furthermore, the frames of movies play one at a time, with everything changing from frame to frame. In the same manner, moments in everlasting successions are ephemeral, with only one moment occurring at a time and without anything solid enduring throughout the successions.
Yes, right, I think most people do know. I think most people have no idea sex is part of TB, until some get a rude surprise. But it is considered the highest, most advanced practice in the tradition.
I like Shamar's concept of Bodhi Path Centers, that focus on the non-tantric aspects. I think I'd enjoy attending one of those Centers, but I couldn't find any in the Western US. I really respect Shamar for making this effort to restore order and legitimacy to at least his corner of TB. I know he's a controverial figure now for other reasons, but he's doing something constructive with these centers.
Sexuality is not the only aspect of tantric buddhism.
Right again. The Chenrezig Empowerment (which is about Bodhisattva vow, isn't it? Anyway, it's about compassion) is tantra. Tantra is about transformation. So when one takes empowerments, one transforms from an ordinary ego-clinging schmoe to someone on the bodhisattva path, or on the healing path (Medicine Buddha empowerment), etc. In sexual tantra, ordinary desire is transformed into a spiritual experience and spiritual bliss and insight. AFAIK. It's supposed to be a short-cut to Enlightenment (Enlightenment in one lifetime), but I question whether it brings true Enlightenment. Anyway, I already had a thread on that question, no need to rehash here.
The Sanskrit word tantra means the warp of a loom or the strands of a braid. Like the strings of a warp, the tantra practices serve as a structure for intertwining the sutra themes to weave a tapestry of enlightenment. Moreover, tantra combines physical, verbal, and mental expressions of each practice, which braid together creating a holistic path of development. Because one cannot integrate and practice simultaneously all the sutra themes without previously training in each individually, tantra practice is extremely advanced.
The root of the word tantra means to stretch or to continue without a break. Emphasizing this connotation, the Tibetan scholars translated the term as gyu (rgyud), which means an unbroken continuity. Here, the reference is to continuity over time, as in a succession of moments of a movie, rather than to continuity through space, as in a succession of segments of pavement. Moreover, the successions discussed in tantra resemble eternal movies: they have neither beginnings nor ends.
Two movies are never the same, and even two copies of the identical movie can never be the same roll of film. Similarly, everlasting successions always maintain their individualities. Furthermore, the frames of movies play one at a time, with everything changing from frame to frame. In the same manner, moments in everlasting successions are ephemeral, with only one moment occurring at a time and without anything solid enduring throughout the successions.
Much as I respect the Berzin archives-fabulous resource!-the above explains nothing. The tapestry is a nice, evocative image, but it still doesn't tell us exactly what tantra and tantric practice is. I find it completely uninformative. And possibly inaccurate in that I don't think the Buddha taught tantra. Show me suttric material that could be considered tantric teaching, and I'll change my mind. Don't talk to me about movies and tapestries. :rolleyes:
Sutric material is definitively not tantric. This website doesn't fully describe tantra. I think the most important thing they explained is that one needs to have wide understanding of the threads of the sutras before even beginning the weaving of the tantra. It is an advanced discipline.
vinlyn, i am sorry if it sounded like i was saying that all buddhism teaches sex with meditation. i was only referring to tibetan buddhism.
it is very hard to check out a teacher before you get into an organization. certain things are kept very secret. i had to join organizations and then be there for a while before i began to even hear gossip from the insiders, and then i had to check out to see if the gossip were true. not easy
Tantric buddhism is not the whole of Tibetan Buddhism. There is the fundamental yana which used to be called hinayana. Incidentally hinayana did not mean that small teaching is inferior to big 'better' teaching. It meant that liberation of one being is less vast then liberation of all beings. Isn't that the case? And there is the mahayana. Three vehicles.
The Commentary of the Kalachakra Tantra goes into detail on how to practice it, but I am not willing to post all of that material, plus, it is said that without teacher it can be dangerous, and I believe that it can, because it is much like kriya yoga without the sex, and kriya can be dangerous. I remember a guru in the Vedanta Society saying that it should not be practiced because it can damage your lungs or cause insanity. I learned that they had members from a certain kriya group coming to their organization due to severe problems that they were having after practicing it. But of course anyone can buy the book and read it, but it is hard to understand and so a teacher is needed.
But basically you are either visualizing sex in the 6th chakra or actually having sex, you are saying a mantra, which from the book i assume is om ah hum, you visualize energy going up through the canals. i think the energy goes from the 6th to the 1st chakra. i would have to read it again, and then maybe back up again, but i think this gives you an idea. it is much more detailed than this.
Tantric sex is NOT the only practice of Tibetan buddhism.
Most people never see that. Tibetan buddhism teaches: meditation, the 8 fold path, the 6 paramitas, the 3 marks of existance, the four noble truths. The five precepts are also important though one is not excluded (from laypersons) if they do not practice all of them. The ten skillful actions and avoiding the ten unskillful are also important. Scholarship of the mahayana canon and debate are also important.
This is true Jeffrey. It is not the only practice. They do teach Buddha's teachings on suffering, etc. They have esoteric teachings, which are tantric, and they have regular meditation and the sex, which special people that the lama likes gets to partake in. Sorry if I sound cynical here, but I am after what I have dealt with in regards to gurus.
Sexuality is part of tantric buddhism. I don't know much about it but there are two types of sexuality: visualization and physical. The goal of tantric sex is to release grasping to the pleasure of the sex. This can be confused with the course goal of sex: pleasure. This is also confused with the higher goal of sex: love. The goal of love is more inline with tantric sex in my opinion because it is motivated by having a more lasting positive outcome of a loving state of mind and support of the two partners in their developement. Similarly the tantric practioner is not: romantic, married, ball and chain, children, dating, attached etc. The goal is to let go of craving for pleasure. There may be other spirituality in the tantric practice such as embodying compassion and wisdom. I speculate that there is a lot of energy during sexuality. One tibetan teacher said that love was one experience that for awhile liberates people from ego; consider the happy feeling you have when you are full of love and how you are more kind and you are more resilient to dissapointments.
Then what happens? A rebound and soon you are disillusioned with your partner due to attachment to the emotions during the love state. The love state is freedom, but people mistake the emotions and pleasure of love for what is valuable. Continuously we expect our romance to make our life 'happy'. When I am married I will be happy. When I have children I will be happy. When I am retired I will be happy. How about we be happy now? (laughs).
Nonetheless there is potential to be deceptive. There is potential to take advantage of women and men by a guru. There is also potential to take advantage of the guru actually. An ethical guru is interested in liberation from grasping. Taking advantage of the guru would be to waste your time at this goal and only have a desire for a fantasy of attainment. The heart sutra says that there is no attainment and thus no fear.
In preparation for tantra there is a long path to reach that. One must know the fundamental yana teachings: 4 noble truths, 3 marks, 8 fold and precepts. One must have taken the bodhisattva vow of working tirelessly for all beings. Without these preparations there is more possibility of becoming harmed by tantra.
Make no mistake that tantra is more dangerous to the mind than the fundamental yana or the mahayana. The purpose is to more rapidly become a buddha for the benefit of beings.
I doubt if this tantric practice every really releasing the grasping of the mind in regards to sex, but it is likely to increase it, which is one reason why so many TB lamas end up harming others.
While they learn the precepts, once they are taking the higher tantras, they let go of those precepts if you remember. sex, alcohol. And as with my own ex teacher, lying to keep me from knowing that the practice is sexual.
I really don't want any lama becoming enlightened for my sake, but basically I don't believe that they are enlightened, especially not by this practice. I feel that this is all an excuse to have sex.
"Sorry Jeffrey, but bodhicitta has two meanings, and the second meaning, which shocked me, is that it is semen. Its states in in the book."
That is two contradictory definitions. Bodhicitta means awakened mind. The wish to bring all beings to enlightenment. I cannot fathom how semen is bodhicitta. It would be like saying love is pack of cigarettes. Could someone say that?
The white bodhicitta in your quotation says that it descends from the crown and is turned into joy in the various chakras. Anybody who studies anatomy knows that semen does not come from the crown of the head. There is no channel for such. The channel for semen is in the genital region.
The chakras do not refer to anything physical. You can not dissect a body and find the chakras. They refer to subtle energies that are subjective experience. Bodhicitta is also a subjective experience.
Semen too is a subjective experience. It is the form skanda and there can be feelings of good bad or neutral regarding semen. For example one may experience it as gross (bad). There is also the perception skanda which would be the tactile qualities of semen. The viscosity saltiness and sweetness of semen. Wether there are globules or discoloration in the semen. All of that is perception. Finally there are fantasies and ideas about semen. Fourth skanda of karmic formations which form are formed out of perceptions into craving (or aversion) and so forth. The consciousness skanda I don't understand correctly, but intuitively consciousness... well its consciousness.
All of the five skandas are citta. Bodhicitta is awakened citta. Because there is no pure or impure semen can be included in bodhicitta? All things are included. Anger is included in bodhicitta. The realization of bodhicitta is the start of actually (as opposed to vowing) a bodhisattva (in my understanding). At that point the bodhisattva recognizes that all beings (and situations) can be brought to an awake nature.
Sexuality and the five skandas of semen can also be brought and used to bring an awake nature.
"While they learn the precepts, once they are taking the higher tantras, they let go of those precepts if you remember. sex, alcohol. And as with my own ex teacher, lying to keep me from knowing that the practice is sexual."
The bodhisattva vows over ride the five precepts. For example if it benefits sentient beings. The bodhisattva is not omniscient and they do not have the ability to foresee their actions. For example I have a good intention in this thread to bring understanding and dialogue. (not that I am a bodhisattva). I can not foresee how my input into this discussion will affect others. Will it help or hurt? I can not foresee if it will help or hurt myself.
But based on the bodhisattva vow to help all beings I may break the five precepts. (I haven't actually taken the bodhisattva vow. And I do not lie, steal, kill, have any kind of sex, or take any alcohol or anything other than tea and coffee since I recovered from alcoholism).
There are also tantric vows. These come after you have studied the sutras and the bodhisattva path. I am not aware what the tantric vows entail. But much like the bodhisattva vows the tantric vows override the five precepts.
Comments
Back to "which monks practiced this". Each sect has its own tantra. The Gelugs--the Kalachakra, the Sakyas--the Hevajra, the Kagyu--the Chakrasamvara, and the Nyingmas have their own. In the old days, these were practiced with live consorts, and the first two tantras mentioned (if not all four, I don't know for sure) involved 12- and 10-year old (live, not imaginary) girls, respectively. But that was then, this is now. As has been said here before, we can't know for 100% sure that these rituals involving girls are still practiced. But I think the point of the OP is to question the appropriateness that they were ever practiced in a Buddhist context, or that these texts even exist, even if they're practiced via meditation only.
Michael Parenti's report on Tashi Tsering is inaccurate. Tashi Tsering never wrote that he was raped from the age of 9. What he wrote is that he was coerced by a form of tax to join the Dalai Lama's dance troupe at an early age, and that in his teens he had to become the passive sex partner of a gov't official in exchange for sponsorship and the opportunity to get an education. He writes that he didn't see anything wrong with this. In the end, Tashi Tsering fled a life of what amounted to servitude, making his way to India, where by unusual fortune he connected with an American, who helped get him to the US, where he enrolled in the University of Washington (Seattle) and got a BA, with Tibetologist Turrell Wylie as his mentor there. He chose to return to Tibet to press for Tibetan interests against the Chinese regime, and had some important successes. Tsering's book is available on Amazon, "The Struggle for Modern Tibet".
Public Television in the US did do a report on sexual abuse of Tibetan novices back in the late 1990's, and there's an online report by a monk in the Tibetan tradition that I've posted a link to in the past (no need to rehash, is there?)
I think if one is going to devote oneself to correcting popular misconceptions about Tibet, or bringing current abuses to light, one needs to be careful to speak accurately, and have solid sources. I'm not saying that the Kalacakra text Thao has isn't accurate, I think it's an impeccable source. But we can't say for sure from there whether the most heinous rituals are still in active practice. Red flags pop up from time to time (the Shadow of the Dalai Lama book, for one), but I always look for corroborating reports when anything like this comes up. That's all I'm going to say about that for now.
A distinction between deceptive and non-deceptive is not the same thing as effective versus non-effective. For example I could be selling love bracelets which I believe produce more vitality. I may not be giving an effective product but that doesn't mean it is deceptive. In the same way that even though my doctor fails to cure my cancer does not mean my doctor was milking me, deceiving me, and so forth.
Ok are you with me? So lets assume the guru is deceptive. Ok that kinda makes sense that they would try to get laid. But how does the guru get involved in that? I mean they could have just get involved in the party scene. I don't know about Tibet but in America it is not that hard to get laid in the party culture. Additionally there are prostitutes. And thats just casual sex.
So the deceptive lama must not only be interested in casual sex. Its not that simple. They must be caught up in the whole mandala of the system. In some sense they are not deceptive at all. They may believe that they are spiritually progressing. They may have spiritual experiences. They may believe they are helping the girls.
Thao, I wonder what you think of the psychology of the lamas? You seem to just think they are evil. And horny. But that is kinda a flat character don't you think?
If we are going to solve this problem we need to see the problem rather than looking for the easy cop-out of just ranting against Tibetan Buddhism. Without sensitivity to the feelings of TB practitioners I think the action will be less effective.
It would be nice if one of the lamas (a corrupt one) would display themselves as not whole-ly evil. Not whole-ly a dirty old man. If one would display themselves as a compassionate human and speak out about what is truly going on.
There is only so much that can be accomplished by criticizing every aspect of the TB tradition as inferior. The issue of the inferiority must be separated from the issue of criminality/corruption. If someone is killing people and they believe in the kalachakra, the Pali Canon, the Bible, or the Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy. The book is immaterial. The inferiority of the spirituality is immaterial. What is of interest is the corruption and abuse.
but you know i have grown very weary of buddhism. in fact, i quit meditating i know the dangerous of meditation, and i know the dangers of having a lama for a teacher, but only because of what i have read and what women have told me, and this especially goes for Hindu gurus. A guru is a guru no matter whether they are in hinduism or tibetan buddhism.. i am rather fed up with it all.
my plan is to go back to non practice of religion.
is there enlightenment. i really never cared. i came to meditation to experience god, and i experienced what the christian mystics call god, and what buddhist call nothing. but it was the most important experience in my life.
since then i studied the dangers of meditation, and i have talked with people who experienced these dangers, and i am really not interested in any of this anymore.
what bothers me is that people are being hurt badly, and i will always put up a good fight to see that people can read the forums and learn for themselves before joining any abusive group, whether hindu, christian, buddhist, etc.
but there are always men who will put up a big fight to keep these things from being said because they in fact think that tantric sex is good and hope someday to learn it. but i am glad that some of you that are fighting for tantric teachings are at least against abuse. but you don't realize how abusive it is for a woman to be used by a lama in this ritual. what does she get out of it? not much. this is not the same type of relationship that one has in a marriage where the husband takes care of the woman, hopefully, for the rest of their lives and visa versa. this is not the kind of relationship where the man comes home to the woman at night and they enjoy a real relationship. it is a teacher/student relationship, much like one that a woman can have if she is a mistress. the woman's body is only a vessel, she is considered energy and consciousness, and when she gets too old the lama will toss her aside for a younger consort or even have other consorts. why? because he has to continue to be aroused, and the same consort can get boring. a younger woman produces more arousal. this is not religion to me. how would you like to be in a relationship with someone where you have to keep it a secret? where you are only a vessel? where you don't have a real relationship?
where you fear to speak out about it for fear of going to hell or being harmed through the psychic powers that a lama claims to have? i knew such a woman who was terribly afraid of her guru's powers. she was a wonderful, sweet lady, but she knew too much of what was going on in the organization, and she feared what her guru could do to her. and if you read of cases that these women talk about with lamas, they are all the same, the threats of death, the fears, suicides.
and so i say again, this is not religion.
2. The World Buddhist Forum
3. The World Fellowship Of Buddhists
I asked a Theravadist:
All of these three Buddhist traditions come together in an ecumenical spirit to work on agreeable common platforms for the common good of all rather than ending up highlighting each others' differences or being co-erced to accept each others' practices, playing in a neutral advisory capacity rather than legally binding manner. See these examples:
http://dhammasukha.pbworks.com/w/page/5 ... isit--2006
In 1998 three great leaders of Buddhism came together for a meeting in Japan to discuss the future of Buddhism in the 21st Century.
The outcome was an agreement to create a World Buddhist Council that would meet very two years in this 21st Century.
They would meet in one place to discuss the state of Buddhism, cut through cultural differences and traditions and find their common ground in order to work together as brothers and sisters for the benefit of future Buddhist generations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Poin ... 1y%C4%81na
The Basic Points Unifying the Theravāda and the Mahāyāna is an important Buddhist ecumenical statement created in 1967 during the First Congress of the World Buddhist Sangha Council (WBSC), where its founder Secretary-General, the late Venerable Pandita Pimbure Sorata Thera, requested the Ven. Walpola Rahula to present a concise formula for the unification of all the different buddhist traditions. This text was then unanimously approved by the Council.
1. The Buddha is our only Master (teacher and guide)
2. We take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Saṅgha (the Three Jewels)
3. We do not believe that this world is created and ruled by a God.
4. We consider that the purpose of life is to develop compassion for all living beings without discrimination and to work for their good, happiness, and peace; and to develop wisdom (prajñā) leading to the realization of Ultimate Truth
5. We accept the Four Noble Truths, namely duḥkha, the arising of duḥkha, the cessation of duḥkha, and the path leading to the cessation of duḥkha; and the law of cause and effect (pratītyasamutpāda)
6. All conditioned things (saṃskāra) are impermanent (anitya) and duḥkha, and that all conditioned and unconditioned things (dharma) are without self (anātma) (see trilaksana).
7. We accept the thirty-seven qualities conducive to enlightenment (bodhipakṣadharma) as different aspects of the Path taught by the Buddha leading to Enlightenment.
8. There are three ways of attaining bodhi or Enlightenment: namely as a disciple (śrāvaka), as a pratyekabuddha and as a samyaksambuddha (perfectly and fully enlightened Buddha). We accept it as the highest, noblest, and most heroic to follow the career of a Bodhisattva and to become a samyaksambuddha in order to save others.
9. We admit that in different countries there are differences regarding Buddhist beliefs and practices. These external forms and expressions should not be confused with the essential teachings of the Buddha.
Ven. Walpola Sri Rahula in 1981 offered an alternative to the Nine-point formula above restating it as follows:
* Whatever our sects, denominations or systems, as Buddhists we all accept the Buddha as our Master who gave us the Teaching.
* We all take refuge in the Triple Jewel: the Buddha, our Teacher; the Dhamma, his teaching; and the Sangha, the Community of holy ones. In other words, we take refuge in the Teacher, the Teaching and the Taught.
* Whether Theravāda or Mahāyāna, we do not believe that this world is created and ruled by a god at his will.
* Following the example of the Buddha, our Teacher, who is embodiment of Great Compassion (mahākaruṇa) and Great Wisdom (mahāprajñā), we consider that the purpose of life is to develop compassion for all living beings without discrimination and to work for their good, happiness and peace; and to develop wisdom leading to the realization of Ultimate Truth.
* We accept the Four Noble Truths taught by the Buddha, namely, Dukkha, the fact that our existence in this world is in predicament, is impermanent, imperfect, unsatisfactory, full of conflict; Samudaya, the fact that this state of affairs is due to our egoistic selfishness based on the false idea of self; Nirodha, the fact that there is definitely the possibility of deliverance, liberation, freedom from this predicament by the total eradication of the egoistic selfishness; and Magga, the fact that this liberation can be achieved through the Middle Path which is eight-fold, leading to the perfection of ethical conduct (sila), mental discipline (samadhi) and wisdom (panna).
* We accept the universal law of cause and effect taught in the Paṭiccasamuppada (Skt. pratītyasamutpada; Conditioned Genesis or Dependent Origination), and accordingly we accept that everything is relative, interdependent and interrelated and nothing is absolute, permanent and everlasting in this universe.
* We understand, according to the teaching of the Buddha, that all conditioned things (samkhara) are impermanent (anicca) and imperfect and unsatisfactory (dukkha), and all conditioned and unconditioned things (dhamma) are without self (anatta).
* We accept the Thirty-seven Qualities conducive to Enlightenment (bodhipakkhiyadhamma) as different aspects of the Path taught by the Buddha leading to Enlightenment, namely:
o Four Forms of Presence of Mindfulness (Pali: satipatthana; Skt. smrtyupasthana);
o Four Right Efforts (Pali. sammappadhana; Skt. samyakpradhana);
o Four Bases of Supernatural Powers (Pali. iddhipada; Skt. rddhipada);
o Five Faculties (indriya: Pali. saddha, viriya, sati, samadhi, panna; Skt. sraddha, virya, smrti, samadhi, prajna);
o Five Powers (bala, same five qualities as above);
o Seven Factors of Enlightenment (Pali. bojjhanga; Skt. bobhyanga);
o Eight-fold Noble Path (Pali. ariyamagga; Skt. aryamarga).
* There are three ways of attaining Bodhi or Enlightenment according to the ability and capacity of each individual: namely, as a Sravaka (disciple), as a Pratyekabuddha (Individual Buddha) and as a Samyaksambuddha (Perfectly and Fully Enlightened Buddha). We accept it as the highest, noblest and most heroic to follow the career of a Boddhisattva and to become a Samyksambuddha in order to save others. But these three states are on the same Path, not on different paths. In fact, the Sandhinirmocana-sutra, a well-known important Mahayana sutra, clearly and emphatically says that those who follow the line of Śrāvakayāna (Vehicle of Disciples) or the line of Pratyekabuddha-yana (Vehicle of Individual Buddhas) or the line of Tathagatas (Mahayana) attain the supreme Nirvana by the same Path, and that for all of them there is only one Path of Purification (visuddhi-marga) and only one Purification (visuddhi) and no second one, and that they are not different paths and different purifications, and that Sravakayana and Mahayana constitute One Vehicle One Yana (ekayana) and not distinct and different vehicles or yanas.
* We admit that in different countries there are differences with regard to the ways of life of Buddhist monks, popular Buddhist beliefs and practices, rites and rituals, ceremonies, customs and habits. These external forms and expressions should not be confused with the essential teachings of the Buddha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesākha
Vesākha (Pali; Sanskrit: Vaiśākha वैशाख) is an annual holiday observed traditionally by Buddhists in Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and the South East Asian countries of Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Burma, and Indonesia.
Sometimes informally called "Buddha's Birthday", it actually encompasses the birth, enlightenment (nirvāna), and passing away (Parinirvāna) of Gautama Buddha.
The decision to agree to celebrate the Vesākha as the Buddha’s birthday was formalized at the first Conference of the World Fellowship of Buddhists held in Sri Lanka in 1950, although festivals at this time in the Buddhist world are a centuries-old tradition.
The Resolution that was adopted at the World Conference reads as follows:
“That this Conference of the World Fellowship of Buddhists, while recording its appreciation of the gracious act of His Majesty, the Maharaja of Nepal in making the full-moon day of Vesak a Public Holiday in Nepal, earnestly requests the Heads of Governments of all countries in which large or small number of Buddhists are to be found, to take steps to make the full-moon day in the month of May a Public Holiday in honour of the Buddha, who is universally acclaimed as one of the greatest benefactors of Humanity"
So no, Theravadins are not expected to be Tantrikas but rather their cooperation are invited and sought in matters where it is agreeable for the common good and benefit of humanity. Hope that clears up the air...
"ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE RECEIVED THE KALACAKRA INITIATION ARE PERMITTED TO READ THIS MATERIAL" This book was written by a well known Tibetan teacher that lived in Tibet before coming to Seattle, Washington. In this book he states:
"If the secrets are not kept, one's head and heart will burst."
"If one keeps the secrets, this water will turn into nectar, which gives rise to the siddhis or realizations; but if one fails to do so, it shall turn into the molten iron of the hell realm. This indicates the great danger of disclosing tantric secrets to those who are not fit to receive them."
From the book: The first empowerment states:
“The First Empowerment—The empowerment of the vase.
The point of this empowerment is to ripen the mind of the trainee. First, one imagines offering a girl, between the ages of 12 and 20, to the vajra master...The vase empowerment is actually given when the imagined girl comes back to the trainee who then enjoys her presence thought laughing and foundling her breasts. Together with this, one offers the mandala and prayers to the vajra master and request the empowerments.
The vase empowerment is actually given when the imagined girl coes back to the trainee who then enjoys her presence thught laughing and fondling her breast. As one touches the girl’s breasts there arises the ‘bliss’ which should be experienced as indivisible from emptiness. .."
“The Second Empowerment:
“one imagines that the secret vajra of the vajra master is places in the mouth of the trainee and ones tastes the white bodhicitta (semen) of the vajra master. This white bodhicitta goes down to the heart-chakra of the devotee and there arises ‘great bliss’.
“The third Empowerment:
“a visualized consort, or dakini-consort, is given to the trainee and they enter sexual union. From this union the white bodhicitta descends from the crown of one’s head. When it arrives at the throat-cakra there arises ‘joy.’ When it descends to the heart-cakra thre arises ‘supreme joy’. When it descends to the navel-cakra there arises ‘extraordinary joy’. And when it descends to the genital-cakra there arises the ‘spontaneous joy’, which is the highest of these four…
With out allowing the white bodhicitta to come out, but retaining it, one experiences the ‘supreme immutable bliss’…
To allow the white bodhicitta to come out is actually a root downfall in this tantra.”
Another root downfall:
“Another example of this root downfall would be thinking, ‘Oh, I don’t need the external mudras or objects like the vajra, the bell, and the and-drum because the meditation is all inside.’”
“Kunda is a flower and the white bodhicitta refers to the semen. In the Kalacakra practice, the emission of the semen or the white bodhicitta is the root downfall.”
“The fifth major energy, the pervasive is very difficult to draw into the heart. In order to do so, it is indispensable for the yogin to meditate in union with an actual consort or a dakini. In other words, the reason why it is necessary for the yogin to actually engage in such a practice is to bring that final, pervasive energy into the heart.”
“One actualizes Kalacakra with consort, who are composed of just energy and consciousness and attains the rainbow body.”
This book is 163 pages long, so I only took from it the section that interested me, not going into full detail on the directions for meditation.
The females have expectations too which get in the way of a relationship. They expect to have a spiritual attainment from the sexuality other than the present moment. They may expect the relationship to be like boyfriend or girlfriend or husband and wife which is not the reality.
It is understandable that there is expectations not in accordance with reality. That is what is meant by ignorance in the four noble truths (I feel).
I am not interested in the commentary. I am interested in the kalachakra. If we are going through this logically and stepwise we should first examine the kalachakra, the relationships of the kalachakra to TB (current), and the effect of the teachings in the kalachakra (current).
Then we can turn to commentaries and criticisms of the kalachakra.
Just so you can compare... My teacher is female with mostly female students. A more popular Tibetan Buddhist is Pema Chodron. As a break from the studies of the flaws of Tibetan buddhism and guru worship you might listen to a youtube video of Pema Chodron and observe her character and the way she holds herself.
metta
And yes, as Jeffrey points out, there ARE good, ethical teachers in TB. They may be rare (as the Lamrim itself teaches), but they're there. It's too bad that there are so many unethical ones who give the tradition a bad name. And as has been commented on this forum before several times, there's no accountability in the system, so it seems there's no way to clean it up, except, as HHDL says, by having victims go public and to the press with their complaints.
The Spiritual Master
Even though we have the excellent working basis, a precious human life, if we are not encouraged by spiritual masters then it will be difficult to follow the path of enlightenment because of the power of nonviruous inveterate propensities of previous lives and the force of habitual tendencies. Therefore, it is necessary to attend spiritual masters. The summary:
Reason and classification,
The characteristics of classification,
Method and benefits of attending spiritual masters--
These five compromise attending the spiritual master.
I. Reason. There are three reasons explaining why we have to attend a spiritual master:
A. scripture
B. logic, and
C. simile.
A. Scripture, First from the Condenseed Perfection of Wisdom Sutra:
The noble disciple who has respect for the lama
Should always attend the wise lama
Because one receives good qualities from him
And from the 8000 Stanza Perfection of Wisdom Sutra
From the beginning, a bodhisattva mahasattva who wishes to achieve the snsurpassable, complete, perfect enlightenment should meet, attend, and pay respect to spiritual masters.
B. Logic One who wishes to achieve the omniscient state should attend a spiritual master because of not knowing how to accumulate merit or how to purify obscurations. The positive illustration of this is the Buddha of the three times. On the other side are Solitary Realizers. To explain: In order to achieve the complete, perfect Buddhahood, all the accumulations, including merit and primordial wisdom must be gathered. The means to do that depend on the spiritual master. All the obscurations to enlightenment, must be purified. The methods to abandon these obscurations also depend on the spiritual master.
C. Simile. A spiritual master is like a guide when traveling to unknown place, like an escort when going to a dangerous place, and like a boatman when crossing a big river. Explanation of the first simile. When traveling to unknown place without a guide, there is danger of mistaking the path, of losing the path, or straying from the path. When a good guide is followed, then there will be no danger of mistaking the path, no danger of losing the path, no danger of straying from the path. We will reach our destination without wasting any steps. Similarly, when entering the path of unsurpassable enlightenment and going the way of Buddhahood, without a Mahayana spiritual master as a guide, then there is a danger of getting lost on the non-Buddhist path, of mistaking the path for that of the Hearer, or of straying to the path of the Solitary Realizer. On the other hand, if the guidance of the spiritual master is followed, then without mistaking the path, losing it, or straying from it, we can arrive in teh city of omniscience. It is said in Srisambhava's life story:
The spiritual master is like a guide who leads one on the path of perfection.
The second simile is of a dangerous place which holds the threat of harm from robbers, thieves, wild beasts, and so forth. When going to such places without an escort, there is danger to one's body, life, and welath. With a proper escort, one can reach the destination without any danger. Likewise, by entering into the path of enlightenment and aspiring to the city of omniscience by gathering the great accumulations of merit and primordial wisdom without a spiritual master as an escort, there is danger of losing the life of favorable conditions and of losing the wealth of virtue to thieves and robbers--the inner discursive thoughts and afflicting emotions and the outer maras, evil spirits and so forth. It is said:
When the crowd of robber-like emotions gets a chance, it will rob your virtues and will even take your life in favorable conditions.
But if you are not separated from a spiritual master, who is like an escort, you will approach the city of omniscience without losing your wealth of virtue or having your life of favorable conditions taken away. Thus, it is said in Srisambhava's life story:
All the merits of bodhisattvas will be protected by the spiritual master.
The life story of Upasaki Acala says:
Each spiritual master is like an escort who takes you to the state of omniscience.
The third simile: When crossing a big river aboard a boat without a boatman, you will not cross to the other side because the boat will either sink under the water or be taken by the river current. With a boatman, you will cross to the other shore by his efforts. Likewise, when crossing the ocean of samsara without a spiritual master to act as a boatman, then even if you enter into the boat of the holy Dharma, you will be carried by the current of samsara or will drown in samsara. It is said:
The boat will not take you to the other shore of the river without a boatman. Even if you have the complete qualities, you will not be freed from samsara if you are without a lama.
So therefore, if you attend a spiritual master who is like a boatman, you will reach the dry bank of nirvana on the other side of the ocean of samsara. Planting the Noble Stalk Sutra says:
A spiritual master is like a boatman who crosses the ocean of samsara.
Therefore, you should attend spiritual masters who are like guides, escorts, or boatman.
the ordinary spiritual master,
the bodhisattva spiritual master who has attained certain bhumis,
the Nirmanakaya spiritual master, and
the Sambhogakaya spiritual master.
These four types are related to an individual's spiritual realizations. When one is ordinary or just beginning, one cannot attend Buddhas and bodhisattvas who have attained higher levels as spiritual masters, so one attends an ordinary spiritual master. When one's karmic obscurations are purified, one can attend a bodhisattva spiritual master who has attained the higher levels. After one accomplishes the great accumulation path, one can attend a Nirmanakaya spiritual master. When one attains the bodhisattva's level, one can attend a Sambhogakaya master.
Of these four, who is the greatest benefactor? When we are in the obscuring darkness of the karma of afflicting emotinos we have no opportunity to even see the face of a superior spiritual master, so how could we attend one? By meeting ordinary spiritual masters, receiving the light of their teachings and shining it on the paths, one will gain the opportunity to see the superior spiritual masters. So therefore, the greatest benefactor for us is the ordinary spiritual master.
......... (Nirmanakay, Samboghakaya, Bodhisattva Spiritual Masters.)
C. Ordinary Spiritual Masters. There are three types of ordinary spiritual masters: those who possess eight qualities, those who possess four qualities, and those who possess two qualities. Concerning the first one, Bodhisattva Bhumis says:
One should understand that a bodhisattva who has eight qualities is a perfect spiritual master. What are the eight? One who possesses moral ethics of a Bodhisattva, is learned in the bodhisattva's teachings, possesses realization, possesses compassion and kindness, possesses fearlessness, possesses patience, possesses and indefatigable mind, and is expert in verbal expression.
The second is described int the Ornament of Mahayana Sutra:
Possessing great scholarship and dispelling doubt,
Whatever he says is acceptable, distinguishing the two realities
This is a perfect bodhisattva spiritual master.
"Possessing great scholarship" refers to being able to give more extensive teachings because of vast wisdom. The spiritual master can dispel doubt because he has profound discriminating awareness. His words are acceptable because his action is pure virtue. He explains the primary characteristics of afflicting emotions and of their purification.
The third is portrayed in Engaging in the Conduct of Bodhisattvas:
A spiritual master is always
Expert in the Mahayana teachings.
He will not abandon the bodhisattva's vow
Even at the risk of his own life.
In other words, a spiritual master is learned in the Mahayana vehicle and holds the bodhisattva's vow.
A. attending him through respect and service,
B. attending him through devotion and reverence, and
C. attending him through practice and persistence in the teachings.
A. Respect and Service. the first has two subdivisions. Attending him "through respect" means doing prostrations, standing quickly, bowing down, circumambulating, expressing yourself with a feeling of closeness at the right time, gazing at him on and off without satiation, and so forth. The example is how Sudhana, the son of a merchant, attended his spiritual masters. The Planting the Noble Stalk Sutra says:
One should never be satisfied by gazing at the spiritual master
because it is difficult to see spiritual masters, it is rare for them
to appear on the earth and it is difficult to meet them.
Attending the spiritual master "through service" means to offer him Dharmic food, clothes, bedding, seats, medicine, and all other types of necessary things even at the risk of one's body and life. The example is the way Sadaprarudita attended spiritual masters. It is stated in Srisambhava's life story:
The enlightenment of a Buddha will be achieved through service to spiritual masters.
Jeffrey: Here is an example I think of how a student may behave (one example one personality)...
You should persistently, repeatedly, and constantly revere spiritual masters. Be very generous with them and cherish them.
Furthermore, one should avoid wrong view toward the skillful actions of spiritual masters. Instead, one should respect them highly. For example, refer to the life story of Kng Anala.
C. Practice and Persistence. Attending him "through practice and persistence int he teachings" means to truly integrate and practice the teachings of spiritual master through hearing, contemplation, and meditation practice and through persistence. This will make the spiritual master supremely pleased. The Ornament of Mahayana Sutra says:
Attending the spiritual master means practicing whatever is taught
By this, he will be completely pleased.
One will achieve Buddhahood when the spiritual master is pleased. As it says in Srisambhava's life story:
When you please the spiritual master, you will achieve the enlightenment of all the Buddhas.
There are three steps to receiving the teachings with bodhicitta, the mind of enlightenment. While actually recieving the teachings, you should regard yourself as the patient, Dharma as the medicine, and the spiritual master as the physician. Listening to and firmly practicing the Dharma should be regarded as recovering from a sickness. As a consequence, the faults of being like a pot turned upside down, a leaking pot, and a pot filled with poison will be avoided.
V. Benefits. The beneficial effects of attending a spiritual master are mentioned in Srisambhava's life story:
Noble Family! A bodhisattva who is well guarded by spiritual masters will not fall into the lower realms. A bodhisattva who is escorted by spiritual masters will not fall into the hands of an evil person. A bodhisattva who is well guided by the spiritual master will not turn away from the Mahayana path. A bodhisattva who is well guided by the spiritual master will go veyond the ordinary person's level.
The Mother of the Victorious One Pefection of Wisdom says:
A bodhisattva-mahasattva who is well guided by a spiritual master will quickly achieve unsurpassable, complete enlightenment.
This is the third chapter,
dealing with the spiritual master, from
The Jewel Ornament of Liberation,
the Wish=fulfilling Gem of the Noble Teachings.
Jeffrey, that's very interesting about how own is supposed to progress to ever more realized teachers, I'd never heard that. It can be tough to find good, trustworthy ones (especially for women, since most are male), so I can't imagine going through the extensive vetting process four times. But I guess if one is dedicated to that particular path, one does what one has to do, and hopes that appropriate teachers are able to be found. Many teachers are ego-driven and haven't achieved non-attachment to cheap thrills. Plus I strongly suspect that word of Trungpa's exploits spread like wildfire throughout the TB community in India & Nepal, which attracted the attention of flawed teachers who made a bee-line for the West. Yes, some women become infatuated with the teachers, there's no doubt about that, but the teachers are supposed to maintain professional ethical standards, and not fall for starry-eyed young women rushing to serve them tea with great excitement. I don't think anyone expects a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. The women I've talked to never expected sex to be pushed on them at all. I can't say about the young ga-ga types who are enthralled by the teacher, I haven't spoken to any.
In any case, TB is frought with problems, I'd like to see them addressed and solved by as many constructive means as possible, so people don't have to abandon their tradition, or feel ashamed of it or embarrassed about scandals, or get upset or defensive when malfeasance is brought to light. We should all be able to respect our tradition, whatever it may be.
I commend you. You are doing things based on a good intention whether that is enacted in the wisest way possible I don't know; not everything I have done in this thread and otherwise has been wise. I hope we both keep a good intention and learn. I can see that you have not given up on compassion through your action with women and also men to show them the dangers of certain gurus.
I will share that my sangha is lead by a woman and most of the people in the sangha are women (majority). I have never practiced a tantric teaching in my 5 years with the sangha. I have never seen any. I have received mahayana teachings from a teacher who is approved to teach the mahamudra. What she is teaching me is the basic teachings of buddhism: 3 marks, four noble truths, 8 fold path and so forth. Her teaching is colored by the mahamudra background of course.
I agree which is why I wrote to my teacher. Thanks, Dakini.
1. The Church might have said we approve of it or we officially condone it.
2. The Church might have said it is wrong and we don't condone it.
3. The church might have said it is wrong, but we are going to overlook it.
4. The Church might have said it is wrong, but we have no control over our priests.
In Thao's post...well, frankly, not many people are wading through the LONG LONG LONG LONG rants. In my views she (at least on early on) gave the impression that tantric sex is a Buddhist ritual. It is not, and should not be labeled as such.
There is a big difference between some Buddhists do X and X is a Buddhist teaching.
Having sex with children is wrong in Mormon polygamist colonies, it's wrong in the Catholic Church, and it's wrong in an Buddhist community.
If Tibetan Buddhism involves the practices described, then I no longer care to hear anything about any aspects of Tibetan Buddhism. If world Buddhist bodies condone such behavior, then I would consider the conclusion that Buddhism is not a belief system (moral code) that I could honor. If, on the other hand, splinter factions do something that is not under anyone's control...then I can't blame the "mother" body. But to think that an international Buddhist body cannot have the guts to condemn these activities is pure hogwash.
RE: your lamrim quotes: I don't know (I have studied the lamrim), all I know is that someone months ago posted that the Lamrim says that it' very difficult to find a knowledgeable and ethical teacher. It might've been on the "Do SPeak Ill of the Three Treasures" thread, I'm not sure. Anyway, I think it's an important point. It's probably on reason why HHDL and others recommend spending years investigating a teacher before committing to working with him/her. Because it's in the Lamrim, and it's there for good reason, I assume. I see a potential pitfall there. I think the part about risking one's body and life (or offering body and life, as it's sometimes stated in books lamas have written) is outmoded. I think the rest of it is a very valuable guideline and clarification.
It depends what you mean by difficult (to find a good teacher). Difficult could mean that it is difficult to find ANY teacher or it could mean that granted you had found a teacher that it is difficult to find one who is ethical.
Even if both are true the meaning of 'difficult' is not quantified. Difficult might mean that 50% of teachers are unethical. 10, 20, 30, 40, 60, 80, 99.
'Difficult' is too vague to get discouraged by.
I agree. My teacher has never asked me to offer body and life. It may be due to differences in the world at that time. For example it was normal to offer the king body and life. Today it is not normal to offer the president or prime minister body and life. Unless in the military.
a) Tantric sex IS Buddhist practice, in Tibetan Buddhism, often referred to as Vajrayana Buddhism. It is clearly labeled as such in Vajrayana texts, and portrayed in Tibetan Buddhist iconography.
b) "X" IS a Buddhist teaching. But most of "X" is held secret, as we've discussed
c)The orgs you mention aren't charged with ethical oversight, AFAIK, and Thao quoted from their literature passages saying they have a policy against criticizing other traditions. THIS IS THE CRUX OF THE MATTER: there is NO accountability in Tibetan Buddhism for rogue lamas/teachers, of which there are many. That's why HHDL told Western dharma leaders to tell aggrieved students to "go to the newspapers and, if necessary, to the police". It's the only way to introduce accountability.
Having sex with children is definitely wrong, but no one is enforcing the rules. Child novices in Taiwan and Sri Lanka have leveled lawsuits against monks and abbots who molest them, but this hasn't happened very often. How it is those boys are able to get legal representation, I don't know. Why can't the Tibetan boys do the same? The time is long overdue for that to happen, OR for some authority in TB to proactively address the potential train wreck in negative publicity for TB, by implementing changes. Children do not belong in housing alongside celibate adults. Ever. Period. Obviously, if the rituals involving girls continue, they should be stopped. A member here PM'd me a month or so ago to say that the Chinese discovered these rituals, and as a result, placed fake monks in the monasteries to keep an eye out for human rights abuses going on in the monasteries. (Yes, I know, kind of ironic...)
What I do know, because it was reported on PBS "MacNeil-Lehrer Newshour" years ago, is that there is a practice that is clearly of Hindu origin but is practiced by Tibetans as well, known as the "kumari" tradition. A "kumari" is a virgin aged 10-12 (if I recall correctly) by tradition. She's treated as a goddess while she's of kumari age, carried by devotees in a palanquin, like the DL used to be, and attends ceremonies and gives blessings. The Newshour reporter asked someone what happens when her stint as kumari is over, when she ages out of "kumari" status? She was told that the kumari goes back to a secular, ordinary life.
What the reporter wasn't told is that on the last day of her kumari status, she is told to come to a ceremony nude, and she will be worshipped by all the men present, and will receive a blessing. Much to her surprise, she's gang-raped by the crowd. This is her introduction to "womanhood", which she officially enters by enduring that "ceremony" and "blessing". This is contemporary practice in India, the kumari that the Newshour filmed was Tibetan, as were many (possibly all) in the crowd following her during a ceremony. We have no idea what happens to these girls, whether their trauma is ever dealt with (not likely), what kind of adults they grow up to be. Same with the 10 and 12-year old who were used in the tantric rituals.
There's nothing in Tibetan Buddhism about kumari festivals or rituals. "Kumari" is a Hindu word.
This is our sad, samsaric planet, Vin, this is the human condition.
Sexuality is part of tantric buddhism. I don't know much about it but there are two types of sexuality: visualization and physical. The goal of tantric sex is to release grasping to the pleasure of the sex. This can be confused with the course goal of sex: pleasure. This is also confused with the higher goal of sex: love. The goal of love is more inline with tantric sex in my opinion because it is motivated by having a more lasting positive outcome of a loving state of mind and support of the two partners in their developement. Similarly the tantric practioner is not: romantic, married, ball and chain, children, dating, attached etc. The goal is to let go of craving for pleasure. There may be other spirituality in the tantric practice such as embodying compassion and wisdom. I speculate that there is a lot of energy during sexuality. One tibetan teacher said that love was one experience that for awhile liberates people from ego; consider the happy feeling you have when you are full of love and how you are more kind and you are more resilient to dissapointments.
Then what happens? A rebound and soon you are disillusioned with your partner due to attachment to the emotions during the love state. The love state is freedom, but people mistake the emotions and pleasure of love for what is valuable. Continuously we expect our romance to make our life 'happy'. When I am married I will be happy. When I have children I will be happy. When I am retired I will be happy. How about we be happy now? (laughs).
Nonetheless there is potential to be deceptive. There is potential to take advantage of women and men by a guru. There is also potential to take advantage of the guru actually. An ethical guru is interested in liberation from grasping. Taking advantage of the guru would be to waste your time at this goal and only have a desire for a fantasy of attainment. The heart sutra says that there is no attainment and thus no fear.
In preparation for tantra there is a long path to reach that. One must know the fundamental yana teachings: 4 noble truths, 3 marks, 8 fold and precepts. One must have taken the bodhisattva vow of working tirelessly for all beings. Without these preparations there is more possibility of becoming harmed by tantra.
Make no mistake that tantra is more dangerous to the mind than the fundamental yana or the mahayana. The purpose is to more rapidly become a buddha for the benefit of beings.
Presumably the hunter gatherers met at some time sort of like the native american potlatchs in the northwest america. Each year they presumably built more structure to the settlement before dispersing.
It is believed that religious practice was the motivation to get together.
(I should ask for my dad to give the name (link) and start a thread)
Most people never see that. Tibetan buddhism teaches: meditation, the 8 fold path, the 6 paramitas, the 3 marks of existance, the four noble truths. The five precepts are also important though one is not excluded (from laypersons) if they do not practice all of them. The ten skillful actions and avoiding the ten unskillful are also important. Scholarship of the mahayana canon and debate are also important.
From the below:
Because one cannot integrate and practice simultaneously all the sutra themes without previously training in each individually, tantra practice is extremely advanced.
The Definition of the Word Tantra
Buddha's teachings include both sutras and tantras. The sutras present the basic themes of practice for gaining liberation from uncontrollably recurring problems (Skt. samsara) and, beyond that, to reach the enlightened state of a Buddha, with the ability to help others as much as is possible. The themes include methods for developing ethical self-discipline, concentration, love, compassion, and a correct understanding of how things actually exist. The tantras present advanced practices based on the sutras.
The Sanskrit word tantra means the warp of a loom or the strands of a braid. Like the strings of a warp, the tantra practices serve as a structure for intertwining the sutra themes to weave a tapestry of enlightenment. Moreover, tantra combines physical, verbal, and mental expressions of each practice, which braid together creating a holistic path of development. Because one cannot integrate and practice simultaneously all the sutra themes without previously training in each individually, tantra practice is extremely advanced.
The root of the word tantra means to stretch or to continue without a break. Emphasizing this connotation, the Tibetan scholars translated the term as gyu (rgyud), which means an unbroken continuity. Here, the reference is to continuity over time, as in a succession of moments of a movie, rather than to continuity through space, as in a succession of segments of pavement. Moreover, the successions discussed in tantra resemble eternal movies: they have neither beginnings nor ends.
Two movies are never the same, and even two copies of the identical movie can never be the same roll of film. Similarly, everlasting successions always maintain their individualities. Furthermore, the frames of movies play one at a time, with everything changing from frame to frame. In the same manner, moments in everlasting successions are ephemeral, with only one moment occurring at a time and without anything solid enduring throughout the successions.
I like Shamar's concept of Bodhi Path Centers, that focus on the non-tantric aspects. I think I'd enjoy attending one of those Centers, but I couldn't find any in the Western US. I really respect Shamar for making this effort to restore order and legitimacy to at least his corner of TB. I know he's a controverial figure now for other reasons, but he's doing something constructive with these centers.
by the way I am pretty certain that the white bodhicitta does not refer to semen.
:rolleyes:
it is very hard to check out a teacher before you get into an organization. certain things are kept very secret. i had to join organizations and then be there for a while before i began to even hear gossip from the insiders, and then i had to check out to see if the gossip were true. not easy
But basically you are either visualizing sex in the 6th chakra or actually having sex, you are saying a mantra, which from the book i assume is om ah hum, you visualize energy going up through the canals. i think the energy goes from the 6th to the 1st chakra. i would have to read it again, and then maybe back up again, but i think this gives you an idea. it is much more detailed than this.
While they learn the precepts, once they are taking the higher tantras, they let go of those precepts if you remember. sex, alcohol. And as with my own ex teacher, lying to keep me from knowing that the practice is sexual.
I really don't want any lama becoming enlightened for my sake, but basically I don't believe that they are enlightened, especially not by this practice. I feel that this is all an excuse to have sex.
That is two contradictory definitions. Bodhicitta means awakened mind. The wish to bring all beings to enlightenment. I cannot fathom how semen is bodhicitta. It would be like saying love is pack of cigarettes. Could someone say that?
The white bodhicitta in your quotation says that it descends from the crown and is turned into joy in the various chakras. Anybody who studies anatomy knows that semen does not come from the crown of the head. There is no channel for such. The channel for semen is in the genital region.
The chakras do not refer to anything physical. You can not dissect a body and find the chakras. They refer to subtle energies that are subjective experience. Bodhicitta is also a subjective experience.
Semen too is a subjective experience. It is the form skanda and there can be feelings of good bad or neutral regarding semen. For example one may experience it as gross (bad). There is also the perception skanda which would be the tactile qualities of semen. The viscosity saltiness and sweetness of semen. Wether there are globules or discoloration in the semen. All of that is perception. Finally there are fantasies and ideas about semen. Fourth skanda of karmic formations which form are formed out of perceptions into craving (or aversion) and so forth. The consciousness skanda I don't understand correctly, but intuitively consciousness... well its consciousness.
All of the five skandas are citta. Bodhicitta is awakened citta. Because there is no pure or impure semen can be included in bodhicitta? All things are included. Anger is included in bodhicitta. The realization of bodhicitta is the start of actually (as opposed to vowing) a bodhisattva (in my understanding). At that point the bodhisattva recognizes that all beings (and situations) can be brought to an awake nature.
Sexuality and the five skandas of semen can also be brought and used to bring an awake nature.
The bodhisattva vows over ride the five precepts. For example if it benefits sentient beings. The bodhisattva is not omniscient and they do not have the ability to foresee their actions. For example I have a good intention in this thread to bring understanding and dialogue. (not that I am a bodhisattva). I can not foresee how my input into this discussion will affect others. Will it help or hurt? I can not foresee if it will help or hurt myself.
But based on the bodhisattva vow to help all beings I may break the five precepts. (I haven't actually taken the bodhisattva vow. And I do not lie, steal, kill, have any kind of sex, or take any alcohol or anything other than tea and coffee since I recovered from alcoholism).
There are also tantric vows. These come after you have studied the sutras and the bodhisattva path. I am not aware what the tantric vows entail. But much like the bodhisattva vows the tantric vows override the five precepts.