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In the Interests of Proper Disclosure
nenkohai
Veteran
... will the practicing Buddhists please raise their hands? As a seeker myself, I'm not sure who is a practicing Buddhist and who is not. Further, I sense there may be certain users or contingent of users who would prefer people NOT to be Buddhist. I think its a fair question.
Or could be I'm just not ready for a venue such as this one.
Or could be I'm just not ready for a venue such as this one.
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Comments
Words attributed to the Buddha in the Dhammapada.
If one is looking for evangelical Buddhist expression then it should be pretty easy to find what you want.
I think the value of this site is that it is more tolerant of dissenting views. It is where folks can explore there own Buddhist experiences without fear of site censure for not towing a particular party line. If this then allows the occasional troll, then I think thats an acceptable cost.
Does it matter who is practicing and who is not? It just seems to me that in making a discussion that says "this person is Buddhist and this person is not" it will be easy to discount what someone has to say because they are not Buddhist. Yet all of the members who are either only partially Buddhist, or are simply interested in Buddhism, have plenty to add to the discussion. I do not wish to become so entombed in Buddhism that I cannot value other opinions and discussions, which is why I like it here. I've learned a LOT about Christianity from members here, learned to see it in a different light, mostly because they bring Buddhist and Christianity together.
It just seems like a bad idea to segregate the group into Buddhist and Not-Buddhist. Even some members of my Sangha are not Buddhist, we hardly exclude them or disregard what they have to say.
Honestly, @nenkohai, I'm not sure exactly what you're after. Is it the bullshit artists who talk the talk but wouldn't be caught dead walking the walk? Is it the "authentic" Buddhists bedecked with artifacts and magic rituals? Is it the people with the foreign-sounding names and perhaps a diploma on the wall?
I can understand trying to avoid hanging out with the solemn phonies, the much-applauded charlatans, and the humble-pie artists, but who is a phony and who is the 'real deal?'
If you figure it out, perhaps you'll let me know: I hate doing homework!
There are holes in this but
Trolling seems entirely about the poster whereas a genuine enquiry is about a subject.
and
With trolling, achieving a particular response seems more important than enquiry.
The operant thing I think is the word 'practice'....the underpinning theory is secondary..i.m.o.
Maybe in Zen-Buddhism, Permanent Revolution is a cliché, because one cannot simply parrot the sutras, not even the brilliant ones and think that one has got it now.
The challenge is to forget all that we learned as being true or false and answer the question from the bottom of our own hearts.
When we spit blood and bile, and disagree a bit, and challenge the official party-line, maybe we actually get somewhere.
I and other mods don't give them a lot of time, space or breathing room.
Use the alert button if you suspect anything untoward.
Thank you.
In any case, trolls are easily dealt with. Takes two to make an argument.
it depends on whether you bite off more than others are prepared to chew.
I'm still curious, @nenkohai what your intention is in wanting to know that information. It seems almost like you are asking who you should take seriously and listen to, and who you shouldn't.
As long as I don't say or do anything harmful or misleading in the name of, or as an example of, "Buddhism"... it shouldn't matter how or to what extent I am a practicing Buddhist.
Well anyway, I am a Buddhist- because I say so, and because I do acknowledge and practice the foundations of Buddhism (4NT, 8FP, precepts) to the best of my ability and limitations.
I'm always very up front about my path and how I choose to walk it; like the fact that I'm a 'secular' or 'atheist' Buddhist; the fact that I don't do formal meditation (at this time); the fact that I'm so not the sutra reading / memorizing type. I have little use for that sort of thing. But I'm honest about that and don't pretend otherwise.
I honestly try not to judge others on the ways or means of their path (Buddhist or not) but -sometimes- I will step up to defend my own path if someone else thinks they have the right to judge me on it. And sometimes I don't bother with that at all.... just depends on the day I guess.
Troll: someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response.
Flaming: also known as bashing, is hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users, often involving the use of profanity.
We see some flaming here sometimes, though not often compared to other internet forums. But I'm not sure I can even say I've ever seen what I'd say is an actual troll on here. I'm sure it's happened, but I've personally never seen it.
Anyhow to stay on topic, I have never felt that there were users here who thought other users shouldn't be Buddhists. I've seen people disagree on what they think certain things mean, especially precepts. I've seen them disagree on things within other traditions. I've seen a few people seemingly suggest to others that perhaps they are bad Buddhists in some way, but that's pretty rare, and even then probably mostly happens due to miscommunication and misunderstanding. The fact is there are people here who are much, much farther a long in their Buddhist practice than others. Many of the people here are pretty new to it. I appreciate the wisdom of the members who have been practicing so long, I think it's invaluable even though sometimes I perceive it as them being judgmental of us less-studied Buddhists. I understand that to be my problem though, and not theirs. I'm glad they stay and converse and share what they have learned, it takes patience to do that. Imagine if the community was nothing but really new Buddhists, LOL. There would be a lot of confusion going around! Some of the more advanced people maybe wish there were more people like them to have more serious, in-depth analytical discussion of sutras and such with. Maybe there is a better place for those sorts, though I think it fits here just fine, there just might not be as many people to comment. When someone is new and looking at some of the more advanced ideas of people who have been practicing for years and even decades or a lifetime, it comes across as a foreign language. I read, but I don't attempt to participate most of the time because I just do not grasp it well enough to do so. I'm interested, I'm just not there yet. It would be like attempting to do high level algebra without having yet learned multiplication tables.
I do meditate, though sometimes it feels like intuition plus contemplation mixed in a hodgepodge. I just let it go then.
^That video always makes me smile and chuckle.
Ve haf vays.....mwah hah hah...
Again, sincere apologies.
I didn't think you did anything wrong. My father says he did 7 years of therapy with the culmination of having realized that he is allowed to be a 'prick' sometimes.
@Chrysalid You don't need to avoid calling yourself Buddhist because you don't believe certain beliefs; there are no hard and fast rules where Buddhism is concerned. I would have said in the past that I don't believe in karma or rebirth but I now see that they cannot be proved by me to be true or not true and so have an open mind; I neither believe nor disbelieve in them as there is simply no need to make myself sit on one side of the fence or the other, just be here now.
I participate in two sanghas: a local monastery and also a small budding group that meets in town. I used to be more of a "solo freelancer" in the past. Participating in a real flesh-and-blood sangha makes a big difference I think.
Karma and rebirth (i.e. not reincarnation of a "soul") I don't see as "supernatural" at all, but simply causality understood in light of emptiness and interdependent origination.
Nagarjuna, Dogen, Chan/Zen and the Huayen school are other areas of interest to me that I find helpful.
I am _trying_ to be a Buddhist. I follow the Eightfold Noble Path, take refuge daily and try to attend classes and meditation at my Sangha when possible.
In metta,
Raven
Some things learned from my past and now are very helpful in how I grasp things as a Christian especially some of the more esoteric material that I'm drawn too. It is like a synergy thing between the two now. When reading Buddhist material I'm finding it not as difficult to grasp certain things as before, because of the Christian influence.
I don't often label myself a Buddhist,
Not because I'm not a Buddhist but because an attachment to a Buddhist identity can be so much more difficult to identify & let go of than a worldly one.
I think the Dharma is everywhere to an open mind & a wide heart. Someone posting here who doesn't wish anyone to be a Buddhist is no less a teacher than a Buddhist Evangelist.
Appreciate your self awareness.
I hope you know you are very welcome to be angry and frustrated in such a genteel way . . .
Just remember how convoluted and cloaked some arisings are . . .
. . . back to your originating post . . .
I tell everyone, even the Buddha statues and any passing trees, that I am a Buddhist on my way to Buddhahood. I practice formal sitting every morning. That really is the cornerstone of my name calling. Other practices as they arise. In Buddhism, failure is an option. Then we try again. That is why it is called practice.
:wave: