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Athiests/Agnostics score highest in religious literacy test.

personperson Don't believe everything you thinkThe liminal space Veteran
edited August 2013 in Faith & Religion
This is a couple years old now but Pew did a survey testing American's religious knowledge, you can also take a small sample test of the questions.
Researchers from the independent Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life phoned more than 3,400 Americans and asked them 32 questions about the Bible, Christianity and other world religions, famous religious figures and the constitutional principles governing religion in public life.

On average, people who took the survey answered half the questions incorrectly, and many flubbed even questions about their own faith.

Those who scored the highest were atheists and agnostics, as well as two religious minorities: Jews and Mormons. The results were the same even after the researchers controlled for factors like age and racial differences...

...That finding might surprise some, but not Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists, an advocacy group for nonbelievers that was founded by Madalyn Murray O’Hair.

“I have heard many times that atheists know more about religion than religious people,” Mr. Silverman said. “Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That’s how you make atheists...”


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/us/28religion.html?_r=3&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1285670836-6/4mJtEgADjP5sQsbgk1SA&
MaryAnneVastmindkarmabluesThinGentlementVictorious42bodhi

Comments

  • It is only through thorough investigation into religion will one see how truly 'blind' faith is....

  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    Perhaps religious folk score higher on secular literacy test. :p
    MaryAnne42bodhi
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited August 2013
    How many cubits is a literacy test? hehe
    Victorious
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited August 2013
    I love religions. It is potentially one of the better forms of sanctioned insanity. Education is leading us into the dharma ending age. Hooray. So many not needing dharma . . .

    The new Maitreya, due in a few hundred years, is gonna have to come up with some more plausible teaching . . . :p
    kayteVictorious
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    Well, if you grow up in a faith tradition and never really question it or feel the need to investigate other religions, it would make sense that you wouldn't be able to score well on a test about other world religions.
    CittaKundozenff
  • Most probably atheists/agnostics know the reasons why they are atheists/agnostics. The rest looks more like sheep.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    footiam said:

    Most probably atheists/agnostics know the reasons why they are atheists/agnostics. The rest looks more like sheep.

    If you lived in the UK you would see that this argument applies equally to British ( and other Northern European ) atheists under a certain age who are overwhelmingly atheist in just as uninformed a way as their parents were nominally Christian. They are just as sheep-like.
    And they are similarly scornful about Buddhism too.
    Lets not kid ourselves that adopting a secularist/rationalist philosophy turns people to Buddhism.
    The evidence is that when it happens on a widespread scale, it doesn't.


    riverflowInvincible_summerkarmablues
  • Citta said:


    atheists under a certain age who are overwhelmingly atheist in just as uninformed a way as their parents were nominally Christian. They are just as sheep-like.
    ..
    And they are similarly scornful about Buddhism too.
    ..

    Very true. A more accurate title for the original report would be "Informed, well-educated people know more about a subject they are interested in than ignorant people who follow the herd". Not exactly newsworthy though eh?

    As you rightfully point out, older atheists had to pro-actively choose to go against the flow (in most cases), whereas the next generation on from the mostly agnostic population of today will just drift into atheism without thought or reason.

    Given the lack of knowledge and insight into religion, Buddhism is bound to be thrown in with everything else in the "weird spiritual stuff for old folks and creepy types".

    To combat this, I think we need better RE in schools. From my observations, my son's school (not even officially CofE) see RE as a means to brainwash the kids into the Church of England and a belief in God, with some token gestures towards mentioning one or two other religions. Other religions are always studied as if they are simple folk superstitions of a barbarian minority, never to be taken too seriously or given the prominence and authenticity of Christianity - which tends to seep into other areas of school life for no good reason.

    The move towards faith schools in the UK is a serious step-backwards in this regard, IMHO. And yes, I would be against a Buddhist faith school just as much as a CofE, Catholic or Muslim faith school. Young people deserve the right to choose their own path and should be shown that they have a personal responsibility to actively choose, even if that means choosing nothing at all.
    Invincible_summer
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    I suspect that a very different dynamics prevail in this sphere in the US and in Northern Europe.
    In many parts of the US I would guess being an atheist or agnostic is to' go against the flow' even now. Whereas as anyone who knows the northern European scene can testify if you are under the age of 40 and NOT an atheist you will stick out like a sore thumb.
    The under 40's have swallowed Dawkins lock stock and barrel. They are fed a constant drip drip of rationalist scepticism from every younger TV celeb, every stand-up comedian , and every writer.
    A friend of mine remarked recently that if you are a 30 year old Brit the only shocking and radical action left open to you would be to go to Mass. :)
    I take your point about allowing young people to make their own choices @ThethinGentlement, but militant secularism is just as much a deterrent to that as any religious brainwashing.
    I suspect it would be a very brave 16 year old Brit who would stand up in a school debating session and admit to being a Christian OR Buddhist..in fact anything but Muslim...Islam is simply off the agenda when it comes to debate .
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Seeing as how Mormons and Jews also scored high and that there are plenty of ignorant atheists in the UK maybe the key to religious literacy is being part of a group that stands apart from the norm, meaning you would be more likely to have to defend your beliefs.
    ThinGentlementVastmindriverflowKundo
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    Many Jews that I've met seem to be quite keen on inter-faith dialogue. I wonder why that is.

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Mormon missionaries study other languages/religions quite closely in order to convert people? Perhaps that could be a reason why they scored higher?
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited August 2013

    Many Jews that I've met seem to be quite keen on inter-faith dialogue. I wonder why that is.

    Namaste,

    I believe it is because we are encouraged to question, debate and pull apart everything in order to understand and/or form an opinion on it. Judaism is not a spoon fed religion. As well as the Torah, you have the Talmud, the Gemarah and oral traditions. Plus our most reknowned and respected scholars have at times been divided on issues pertaining to Halachah (Jewish Law). Judaism is more like "the religion with homework" Ask two Jews an opinion on something and you will get three answer ;)

    In metta,
    Raven

    Invincible_summerriverflow
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    ...
    And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Mormon missionaries study other languages/religions quite closely in order to convert people? ...

    They even convert the dead!

    KundokarmabluesInvincible_summer
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    Citta said:

    I suspect that a very different dynamics prevail in this sphere in the US and in Northern Europe.
    In many parts of the US I would guess being an atheist or agnostic is to' go against the flow' even now. Whereas as anyone who knows the northern European scene can testify if you are under the age of 40 and NOT an atheist you will stick out like a sore thumb.
    The under 40's have swallowed Dawkins lock stock and barrel. They are fed a constant drip drip of rationalist scepticism from every younger TV celeb, every stand-up comedian , and every writer.
    A friend of mine remarked recently that if you are a 30 year old Brit the only shocking and radical action left open to you would be to go to Mass. :)
    I take your point about allowing young people to make their own choices @ThethinGentlement, but militant secularism is just as much a deterrent to that as any religious brainwashing.
    I suspect it would be a very brave 16 year old Brit who would stand up in a school debating session and admit to being a Christian OR Buddhist..in fact anything but Muslim...Islam is simply off the agenda when it comes to debate .

    I am open about being a Buddhist in school, many people my age respect it as a peaceful and more logical religion and seem interested however a few ignorant people have shown that they think we worship a fat tiny bald chinese man.

    And I have to agree with @thingentlemen about brainwashing in schools, mu parents aren't religious but up until the age I could think for myself I believed in God becuase in UK Primary schools (4-11) they brainwash you even in state schools they even made us say grace before eating.
  • Indeed. My 8 year old son is obliged to learn hymns, attend church services etc. I always allow him to question this, to ask him the one simple thing which the school never dares: what do you think?
    riverflowMaryAnne
  • These 'new atheists' are a counter movement against the surge of religious dogmatism in the past decade, with 9/11 and the christian lobby against teaching of Evolution in schools as its prominent features. That's it, counter culture (and a welcome one at that) but what raises concern is that it has the looks of a religion with its own fanatical scornful following, prophets (Dawkins, Hitchens) and scriptures/books ... as a former atheist I was part of this flock and I now see how ignorant I was despite all my knowlegde. "If you got rid of God, you got rid of yourself, because you are God" (alan watts)
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    I always allow him to question this, to ask him the one simple thing which the school never dares: what do you think?

    Namaste,

    I applaud that. Though my parents are religious they raised me the same way and I am raising my daughter that way too :)

    In metta,
    Raven
    ThinGentlement
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Citta said:

    Lets not kid ourselves that adopting a secularist/rationalist philosophy turns people to Buddhism.

    Though I think such people are more likely to be attracted to Buddhism than some of the other religions.
  • CittaCitta Veteran

    Citta said:

    Lets not kid ourselves that adopting a secularist/rationalist philosophy turns people to Buddhism.

    Though I think such people are more likely to be attracted to Buddhism than some of the other religions.
    Evidence ?
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran

    Indeed. My 8 year old son is obliged to learn hymns, attend church services etc. I always allow him to question this, to ask him the one simple thing which the school never dares: what do you think?

    If I have Children and they still do this then I will not tolerate that, I will complain to the school and encourage my kids to ignore it.

    Hopefully though it will stop soon considering how fast atheism is growing in the UK and those dreadful half Theocratic conservatives that are in the education system such as Michael Gove can't change that.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Citta said:

    Citta said:

    Lets not kid ourselves that adopting a secularist/rationalist philosophy turns people to Buddhism.

    Though I think such people are more likely to be attracted to Buddhism than some of the other religions.
    Evidence ?
    Because Buddhism "allows" for secularist/rationalist views in a way that many other religions don't. If you mean have I got evidence in terms of data or research, then no, I don't think this exists anywhere. The UK census for example doesn't have a breakdown of which tradition a Buddhist belongs to, it's just the basic numbers. And trying to estimate these relative numbers whould be very tricky.
    So it's anecodotal, and based on personal experience.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Well my personal experience tells me that the section of those under-forties who are weaned on a diet of non stop cynicism and second hand and uninternalised scepticism, find Buddhism only slightly less amusing than they find Christianity.
    The exceptions being those , who to quote Chesterton, having relinquished a belief in God now believe anything.

  • If I have Children and they still do this then I will not tolerate that, I will complain to the school and encourage my kids to ignore it.

    I have to be fair to the school here. My son is autistic (and possibly ADHD too) and the school have been very supportive of us with his needs. So, I try to cut them some slack in this area, knowing all the other schools are just as bad, if not worse.

    As a last resort, I'm perfectly within my rights to say I want to withdraw him from RE and any religious stuff during school hours. However, I prefer not to do this, as A) some RE is a good thing (shame they spoil it by using it as a platform to sell Christianity) and B) I don't want him to be set apart from the other kids. Bless him, he has enough difficulty fitting in as it is.

    Like I say, nobody forces this stuff on the kids directly, but who wants their kid to be the odd one out? I had a childhood friend who was a Jehovah's Witness, her parents withdrew her from all assemblies and RE because of this. This definitely made her something of an outcast. Rock and a hard place.
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    If I have Children and they still do this then I will not tolerate that, I will complain to the school and encourage my kids to ignore it.
    And the key word here is IF. If classes are elective you have the choice to have your children not attend. No need to be hostile and aggressive.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    If I have Children and they still do this then I will not tolerate that, I will complain to the school and encourage my kids to ignore it.
    And the key word here is IF. If classes are elective you have the choice to have your children not attend. No need to be hostile and aggressive.

    Exactly. We experienced this in the school where I was principal occasionally, although it was about sex-ed...even though it was an opt-in program.

  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    I'm kinda glad this old thread got pulled.....I was wondering where
    @person is........it's been a couple of weeks since we've seen him.....
    Hey Mr. person...u doing ok?
  • Yes we miss you @person hope you and yours are all well
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran

    Maybe it is just that religious people are less intelligent than atheists?

    Yes I am being provocative but I did not write the article nor have anything to do with the 53 seperate studies saying so...

    Cheers.
    /Victor :p

    PS.
    Poll:

    Is this the ultimate proof that

    a. All Scientists are biased atheists
    b. All Scientists are Loons
    c. The definition of intelligiance is flawed
    d. Intelligence has nothing to do with happiness

    DS. :ninja:
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    @Victorius - you? Provocative? Say it isn't so!
    Victorious
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    @dhammachick.

    You know I just throw sh*t up in the air and if people stand around to get hit when it falls down...
    :D
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Which may explain why you often don't get much discussion going.
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    Yes I've seen the shitfights you like to start. Sorry I don't find it as amusing as you do. Must be that silly Aussie sense of humour of mine.
    VictoriousCitta
  • Yes ..most of it tend to fall straight back down.
    Leaving chips on shoulders.
    KundoVictorious
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    @Citta, The day someone else wins a fight that I picked that is gonna be the day after I died.


    @dhammachick In my defence I must say I normally get picked into those storms. Not that I mind though.
    :)

    /Victor
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    vinlyn said:

    Which may explain why you often don't get much discussion going.

    Dude I love you. I really do.


    With metta and karuna.
    /Victor
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited September 2013

    @Citta, The day someone else wins a fight that I picked that is gonna be the day after I died.


    @dhammachick In my defence I must say I normally get picked into those storms. Not that I mind though.
    :)

    /Victor




    Where does the inferiority complex stem from ? Have you experienced a lot of discrimination ?
    Victorious
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    @Citta promising start but I really gotta work! lol.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited September 2013
    No a finish actually. I don't want to engage anymore with puffed up forum 'tough guys ' with an emotional IQ that fits their shoe size. I do that for a living I don't want to do it here too.
    And passive/aggressive lol smileys do not fool anyone either.
    vinlynKundo
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    @Citta The temple is not the only place to cultivate. I am offering you a mirror. With whom lies the enimosity? You or me?

    No need to answer. Just be true and you will learn something I promise.

    The lol was real. And my metta too. I do not lie nor deceive.

    Peace
    /Victor
  • Now, whatever other problems you have Victorious ( snicker ) a basic grasp of the English language doesn't seem to be among them..
    So I am unclear which bit of ' not engaging with you ' is unclear to you.

    Toodle-pip old bean. Have a good life.
    VictoriousKundo
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    Citta said:

    Now, whatever other problems you have Victorious ( snicker ) a basic grasp of the English language doesn't seem to be among them..
    So I am unclear which bit of ' not engaging with you ' is unclear to you.

    Toodle-pip old bean. Have a good life.

    Dear @Citta. I really Dunno. Maybe the same part that evades you? lol.

    I want you to know that nomatter what You decide is best for you in this situation I have absolute, 100% no respect whatsoever for your decision.

    Live long and prosper my old chum in a bun. (Is that an idiom? It should be.)

    /Victorious
  • Wow, and someone said recently *I* was a snarky one around here! LOL




    VictoriousKundo
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Vastmind said:

    I'm kinda glad this old thread got pulled.....I was wondering where
    @person is........it's been a couple of weeks since we've seen him.....
    Hey Mr. person...u doing ok?

    Jeffrey said:

    Yes we miss you @person hope you and yours are all well

    Thanks for asking, I've just been away from the site, nothing drastic.
    Vastmind
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