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How to gain Faith in Rebirth?
TheEccentric
Hampshire, UK Veteran
As you probably already gathered I am having trouble believing in Rebirth as much as I want to believe as so much of my Practice involves its belief.
How do you banish doubt of it? Have you had a similair conflict to?
How do you banish doubt of it? Have you had a similair conflict to?
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Comments
Why?
On the intellectual/emotional front -- just for conversational purposes or belief purposes -- you might want to consider to what extent you credit the life-fact that everything changes. Everything changes all the time. And so, in the conversational or belief sense, you can easily imagine that the you of five minutes ago is not the current you. It's nothing sexy or religious ... it's just a fact: Everything changes. And perhaps it is in this conversational sense you might want to (but don't have to) credit the notion that in some sense you have been reborn ... second after second you are reborn. A brand-new you ... the same, but different.
All that is just for conversational or belief purposes.
What practice does is to take you out of the make-believe realm of believing. When experience begins to accord with what has been true all along, well, it's just experience ... and experience trumps belief every time.
Just trust your practice. Believe what you like, but practice.
So you've got two choices, seek out someone to brainwash you into believing whatever they say. Or take a step back, look at what you do believe, what you're being told you should believe, what the difference is and why there is a difference. Usually there is a good reason why you don't believe something, understand that and move on from there.
On the ruins of Borobudur there is a bas relief that describes one of Buddha's past lives. In it the Buddha is a turtle, while swimming he comes across a sinking fishing boat and calls out to the fishermen to climb on his back. He swims to shore, saving the fishermen's lives. In return they sit around the Buddha-Turtle and listen to several discourses of dharma teaching. Soon the group realises there is a problem, where they have landed has no source of food. So, the Buddha graciously allows the group to slaughter him and chow down on his turtley goodness.
You could take this story as literal truth, I'm sure many believers do.
You could reconcile the concept of a turtle saving peoples lives, after all dolphins are known to do it.
You could even reconcile the turtle sacrificing himself, were you to believe the Buddha in his pre-enlightenment Boddhisattva form was so aware of his nature that he knew he was doing a wonderful thing for those sailors.
Problem is, turtles have no vocal chords...
My main practice Lamrim has many many Meditations on Samsara and the wish to liberate yourself and others from it.
Really.
The Buddha according to the legends, went into the quest with an open mind. Not with a blueprint.
It's not necessarily a question of believe or not believe. It might be a question about being open-minded about it. No one said to reject it. In fact, I think we're saying just relax about it.
In the early stages we focus on what works, this is what provides impetus and confidence in the dharma. Everything is fine. :clap:
Having established this we can see a similar process of Rebirth occuring when we sleep and dream, In our dream world we are born into a dream body it can possess form with various characteristics or even be formless, The appearance of our surroundings can vary as well, Some people may dream they become a fish and for the entirety of that dream we cannot deny that this appearance is true, For if we are to deny the appearance to the subtle mind as false then we also have to do the same with the appearance to the gross mind. Now imagine that if we were to not wake up from this appearance of being a fish this would become our waking world ! Our Real world the world that appears to the mind for the duration of its Karma.
Understanding Rebirth is as easy as understanding why you have the appearance you do now, The perpetual cycle of karma we create thrusts us into new experiences of being and they are all very similar in nature to dreams.
One time I dreampt of being born into a place that was surrounded by fire where the experiences were dreadful and the beings who inhabited the place burnt and cried out in pain, Where horrendous beings pushed you toward a fiery chasm from which you could not pull your self back up. This was Hell or the mere appearance of one of the Hell realms at that time I asked myself what if I had not have woken up from that dream ?
Rebirth is a mere experience of the mind and so are all other Phenomena.
Initially, I struggled with it because I thought of it in terms of reincarnation which made little sense to me. I think as I studied more, it gradually made sense to me in a way that doesn't rely on the contradictory notion of the transmigration of a soul-entity. I have to see it as another way of understanding nonduality, dependent co-arising, and karma-- and anatta. I won't go into all that here. This works on a micro- and macro- level.
But don't force it, as others have suggested. You don't have to get any doctrinal ducks in a row. The more you practice, the more other aspects of the Dharma come into focus. It will come in due time in your own way, in your own understanding. That matters far more than any assent of an external belief.
I'm open to it. It seems plausible considering there are animals, others in different circumstances than I, etc.
One can take a very Eternalistic view on rebirth and examine horoscopes, connect dots where others don't see, etc.
But I don't know. It seems like rebirth as an idea is just another way human beings make sense of the world around them.
That is why I personally take the practical route. Rebirth for me is down to earth, everyday life. Its causality and working with conditions. So rebirth is the effect of karma.
Karma in a pragmatic sense is perception and reaction or response.
Generally we act impulsively based on previous experiences, etc. If we have a stressful day then that will carry on when we come home. We may act out and not really be present.
But if we have a meditation practice we can sit and relax and let the stress work itself through the body and eventually release.
So to me that process showcases how karma works. There is causality and conditions working. And the effects is the rebirth which is happening moment to moment in our lives.
Now it gets complex because its not as linear. Causality is not from a to b but rather its coming from all directions. So you may have a cause that may not ripen unless there is a certain condition. So effects can occur and compound without time or space.
Its something you start see in meditation practice and if you really observe how things are working and how conditions and causes work. Karma starts to make sense in light of rebirth. And rebirth in the moment to moment process makes a bit more sense too.
Now the human birth and death and rebirth thing is a bit abstract and not tangible.
But one can see how present causes and conditions propel one towards a future. Like for instance if I study then its very likely that I will do good on an exam. But thats just looking at one cause and one condition, sampling a small situation. Its not obvious that we can actually examine multiple conditions, multiple causes. This is why one can not study and still do well, and etc the various different outcomes. I hope that is clear and I hope I am not talking over anyone.
So TLDR: One has to understand dependent origination and how karma relates to rebirth on the micro scale. Then the macro scale of birth, death and rebirth may be more plausible.
But you're right in that Buddhadharma requires rebirth. Without it, it becomes a Nihilistic religion. Not to say that those who deny rebirth are Nihilistic, but these issues do need to resolve themselves. Because the Buddha did envision samsara and suffering to be countless lifetimes, not just one. And I don't think it was to scare us but rather to motivate us and to even truly make our present better and work and practice meditation to really help our future selves. Its a motivation thing.
Hope this helps.
So just Buddhism is nihilistic without belief in postmortem rebirth? What about other religions, are they all nihilistic? Is everything except belief in postmortem rebirth nihilistic? Hows that working out?
Its a great motivator. Not only does one become peaceful in the present, but because one is peaceful in the present that creates a cause for future peace. And future me deserves that.
We all do.
One can see how their life circumstances are due to previous life circumstances.
One can take this knowledge and decide to make a better life for oneself.
Practice the dharma, study the dharma, be kinder to oneself and others.
Just like when I was a Christian I believed in God, this helped me to be a better person.
But replace God with Rebirth. Its working the same level. And that may kind of sound offensive but I find its true.
Or pick science as a belief system. Science can definitely make one wonder, make on more compassionate, etc.
Or not.
I think one has to figure it out by oneself. No one here is going to convince anyone. We all have to walk, talk and find out for ourselves what works and what does and be open enough to evolve.
That is all. Faith in rebirth isn't necessary.
But as a Buddhist one at least must put their faith in causality/conditions and then actively engage and investigate through meditation and life if such constructs are worthy of following.
Be it for present benefit or future benefit that is up to the individual. There is no black and white, you're a bad buddhist or good buddhist.
What truly matters for any buddhist is suffering and the cessation of suffering. Everything is just wasting your time, imho.
Many Buddhists don't believe in literal rebirth. I myself don't believe in literal karma.
I think for a lot of people, the "what happens when I die?" is such a big question that causes stress and worry that for a person to get to the point they can even seriously study religion (or much else) they need to feel they have some sort of answer to that, even if the answer is "I'm not sure, but I'm open to learning more." Because having such a big question hanging over us tends to paralyze us, and we focus so much on our lack of an answer to that question that we can't see wisdom teachings for what they are.
Incidentally, I don't think any self-respecting nihilists would approve of you capitalizing the N in nihilist.
I think that we are meme copying machines. And like any copying machine we have no protection against conflicting content.
And also our emotions and feelings don’t have such a barrier. Our brain is composed of different systems that can have different outcomes and we want / don’t want the same thing at the same time.
My practice is to just allow that to be. The more I try to settle some inner conflict the more it grows.
When I fight the conflict grows; when I don’t fight at all there is no conflict left; just different ideas and different feelings.
Have some inner ahimsa. Be at peace with your doubts. Ultimately we don’t know anything at all.
See what's in front of you, that's where life lies.
The rest is pie in the sky and wishful thinking.
The advice that is already given I think is good - keep open minded about it and don't force a belief. You can also take rebirth as true as an intellectual assumption and work from there. Nothing much can go wrong.
But I understand your confusion, because then again, the understanding of rebirth is a part of right view, so it is also not something to fully neglect. Contemplating dependent origination -the process of rebirth- I think is important. But then again, even if you contemplate it for years, it won't be convincing in itself.
What will be more convincing is recalling previous lives. Some people have this happen naturally, and some have it as a result of meditation, either intentionally or unintentionally. If you are interested in it, I think it's best to find a teacher that can tell you how to do it and support in the process. But not everybody can do it, so don't point all your arrows at it.
In the end, the way is to practice the 8-fold path, nothing more, nothing less.
With metta,
Sabre
Rebirth seems to make sense to me and it cuts out the middle man (that which would otherwise reincarnate). Like @TheEccentric, I had a hard time believing in rebirth because to me, it seemed like well meaning but wishful fluff. It didn't seem to have any bearing on the problem at hand which is our collective suffering. So I let it go.
It came back like a boomerang though. Some of my current belief in rebirth could come from a "feel good, fluffy" place (We are one, let's explore together) but it's also the only way I can explain instinct.
@Sabre, I think I may have had past life recall in dreams but they could have just been dreams. Very strange and convincing though.
Not as "my" past life, just "a" past life.
This book has been mentioned on NB:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Cases_Suggestive_of_Reincarnation
This is a website of a cardiologist who has studied near death experiences over a period of 20 years:
http://www.pimvanlommel.nl/home_eng
Beliefs are optional.
As the 4 Noble Truths tell us,suffering is caused by attachment. By wanting this life, this moment, to be other than what it is. Notice all your attachment is centered around an imaginary you, this self. Seen as such, rebirth of this self is not such a great thing. Yet it happens. Part of practice to see this process as a process and let it go. Freedom from cyclic existence is no more clinging to the idea of you that causes your rebirth. Till then practice by meditating. Learn to see impermanence in everything that arises. Gain peace in knowing that the way you come to experience this present moment is through dependent origination.
Best Wishes
Buddhism without eightfold path seems a bit strange to me.
by
Bhikkhu Bodhi
Pretty good article! He's a very "pro-literal rebirth" writer. People who really don't want to believe in it? Probably better to not read his stuff.
But what I wanted to say with that is that practice (whether we call it 8-fold path or other system) will lead to more faith. Reading articles and pondering things won't necessarily do this as effectively. If you gain more insight into what the Buddha taught by replicating it, it also becomes more acceptable that he was right on other things that you don't yet understand. For example, seeing the implications of karma on a day to day basis, gives an idea that it could go beyond one life.
Metta,
Sabre
That the world is flat makes an awful lot of sense. But it could be interesting to ask about the scientific validity of the idea..
That’s not necessarily true.
If someone understands psychological mechanisms on a day-to-day basis, that’s no guarantee he understands what happens after death.
It’s a different category of knowledge.
If someone is trying to deceive you (I’m not talking about the Buddha here) he may use this. He will be reliable on a number of occasions and when you trust him enough he will take your money and run.