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Western Sanghas need to be stronger and younger
shadowleaver
Veteran
in Sanghas
I am in my early 30's and have been practicing Zen with a Sangha for a couple of years. Overall, joining in took my practice to a whole new level, far beyond what I had before, when I was meditating alone and reading books. There is one aspect, however, that I feel is missing.
The group has about 25-30 members that could be called the core. At this point I can probably be counted as one of them. There is also quite a bit of in and out traffic, especially on Beginner's nights: people get curious, come in a few times and then "disappear". There are also people who stick around for a few months and seem to show genuine interest in the Practice but then drop out nevertheless. I have to say that this transience has been getting to me (a funny thing for a Buddhist to say, I know
).
Now as far as the core group goes, I'd say two thirds to three quarters of the folks there are 50 years old and above. They are wonderful people and I've been inspired by a lot of them but, of course, there are generational concerns that are more relevent to them than to me and vice versa. I would be lying to myself if I didn't admit that such a difference of concerns creates a bit of a barrier.
As far as the remaining younger quarter to third goes, I've found it not so easy get close to them. I've been trying to set up movie nights and hikes and that was somewhat successful. However, that often felt like an uphill battle: folks tend to be pretty busy with their personal and career lives and not all that interested in forming closer bonds with fellow practitioners. For the most part, the only folks I could "get" were either older or those who are "in between things", trying to figure out their lives. Once they did figure them out, they would become more and more involved in their new pursuit and drop "below the radar".
Honestly, a big part of my motivation for joining a group was finding a circle of steady spiritual friends. Coming to a scheduled practice, having a few brief conversations and going home just doesn't quite meet that need. As a result, I feel pretty lonely at times. Now I understand that here in America it is notoriously difficult to make and keep deep, meaningful friendships and everyone, Buddhist or not, is infuenced by the same culture and pressures. But the loneliness feels real and I feel I need to somehow deal with it.
To summarize, I am really talking about two things here. First, a stronger sense of a community within the Sangha in general and second, the apparent prevalence of the Baby Boomer generation (this second point is being vigorously discussed on various forums and blogs, by the way). Sangha is one of Three Jewels for a very good reason and I feel that at least in America it needs to be stronger and it needs grow with younger members. Without that, I am afraid that Western Buddhism can fall by the wayside as a fad of 60's and 70's.
Can anyone relate to what I'm talking about? Any insights? Most importantly, any practical advice on strengthening and rejuvinating the Sangha? I don't want this to come across as a rant and am willing to put time and effort into addressing what I believe to be issues standing in the way of the Dharma in the West. I just don't know how.
The group has about 25-30 members that could be called the core. At this point I can probably be counted as one of them. There is also quite a bit of in and out traffic, especially on Beginner's nights: people get curious, come in a few times and then "disappear". There are also people who stick around for a few months and seem to show genuine interest in the Practice but then drop out nevertheless. I have to say that this transience has been getting to me (a funny thing for a Buddhist to say, I know
).Now as far as the core group goes, I'd say two thirds to three quarters of the folks there are 50 years old and above. They are wonderful people and I've been inspired by a lot of them but, of course, there are generational concerns that are more relevent to them than to me and vice versa. I would be lying to myself if I didn't admit that such a difference of concerns creates a bit of a barrier.
As far as the remaining younger quarter to third goes, I've found it not so easy get close to them. I've been trying to set up movie nights and hikes and that was somewhat successful. However, that often felt like an uphill battle: folks tend to be pretty busy with their personal and career lives and not all that interested in forming closer bonds with fellow practitioners. For the most part, the only folks I could "get" were either older or those who are "in between things", trying to figure out their lives. Once they did figure them out, they would become more and more involved in their new pursuit and drop "below the radar".
Honestly, a big part of my motivation for joining a group was finding a circle of steady spiritual friends. Coming to a scheduled practice, having a few brief conversations and going home just doesn't quite meet that need. As a result, I feel pretty lonely at times. Now I understand that here in America it is notoriously difficult to make and keep deep, meaningful friendships and everyone, Buddhist or not, is infuenced by the same culture and pressures. But the loneliness feels real and I feel I need to somehow deal with it.
To summarize, I am really talking about two things here. First, a stronger sense of a community within the Sangha in general and second, the apparent prevalence of the Baby Boomer generation (this second point is being vigorously discussed on various forums and blogs, by the way). Sangha is one of Three Jewels for a very good reason and I feel that at least in America it needs to be stronger and it needs grow with younger members. Without that, I am afraid that Western Buddhism can fall by the wayside as a fad of 60's and 70's.
Can anyone relate to what I'm talking about? Any insights? Most importantly, any practical advice on strengthening and rejuvinating the Sangha? I don't want this to come across as a rant and am willing to put time and effort into addressing what I believe to be issues standing in the way of the Dharma in the West. I just don't know how.
0
Comments
When I occasionally go to a Methodist church, it is mostly middle age to old people. If I go to a Catholic church, same thing. That's the nature of most religion in the US. It's not going to adapt to you, you have to adapt to it.
Then also if you think about the history of buddhism in the west, it exploded and spread in the 60s and 70s with the hippie movement and just the general feeling of exploring new things. Its a different time now.
So its not hard to understand why younger people would not be involved this day and age.
I created a meditation meetup group in my area. Ive had 40 people join it from a variety of ages and backgrounds. It hasnt gotten anywhere because no one wants to put in the effort to even get together but me, and i cant do it on my own, nor should i, because its supposed to be a group of equals, not lead by one person. People cannot be forced to have a desire to put in effort, either it is a priority for them, or it isn't.
And i agree with @vinlyn in that Buddhism is very young in the west. Also less than 1% of people identify as Buddhist, not that many of us.
This quote of Ajahn Lee from blistered feet, blissful mind Is really talking about the monastic sangha, but i like it for modern buddhism in general.
Ajahn Lee showed some interest in a gigantic chestnut tree which was slowly dying. He pointed to it and said it was similar to the Sangha in Thailand, spectacular and impressive, but largely dead wood. Most of the useful stuff is high and out of reach or very hard to find. Then he compared it to a young sapling, which he said was like the Sangha in the west, small, fragile , but full of life and great potential. He said many of the great teachers in Asia believe that the real Dhamma, even the next Buddha will arise in the west. Traditionally a Buddha statue would always face east but there are teachers in Thailand who have built their temples with the Buddha facing west. "
The labour and the wounds are vain,
The enemy faints not, nor faileth,
And as things have been they remain.
If hopes were dupes, fears may be liars;
It may be, in yon smoke conceal'd,
Your comrades chase e'en now the fliers,
And, but for you, possess the field.
For while the tired waves, vainly breaking,
Seem here no painful inch to gain,
Far back, through creeks and inlets making,
Comes silent, flooding in, the main.
And not by eastern windows only,
When daylight comes, comes in the light;
In front the sun climbs slow, how slowly!
But westward, look, the land is bright! "
You have emotional needs and are looking for good company.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/bps-essay_26.html
Perhaps volunteering some time for 'bad' companions aka the suffering, might widen the circle . . .
How do you propose to deal with loneliness?
Underlying my entire adult life has been a deep sense of disconnection from those around me and as a result, sharp loneliness. What probably didn't help was that I was brought to America in my mid-teens before I had a chance to develop a grown up personality. I've been here for a decade and a half now but I have seemingly failed to "get" how things here work people-wise. Often I feel as deeply foreign as ever. Maybe I'm just slow or socially inadequate but whatever it is, I have to somehow deal with it as it is burning me like a fire of hell.
Don't get me wrong, while the above sounds dramatic, it's not that I'm depressed all the time. I manage to chug alone, even somewhat successfully. I regularly manage to put on a rather outgoing phase to the point that a lot of people find me funny and energetic. And there are some close people around me too, just not as many as I'd like and not as close as I'd like. I am doing various things to stay sane, to live yet another day, it's just that there's always this Big Loneliness, Big Apartness down below and with Buddhist practice I am able to see it better and to talk about it.
As for my original concern with having a stronger and younger Sangha, I do realize that I'm missing the point somewhat. Yes, I experience a considerable degree of social marginalization (whether real or imagined) and I need to somehow keep addressing that so as not to go off the deep end. However, in some ways, I have come to approach Sangha as a way to get something that would make me feel good. I hope that the answer to my Big Loneliness can come from outside.
Of course, the reason that Sanghas even exist is because someone somewhere did the hard work of understanding the Great Loneliness (or whatever they perceived that unbearable aspect of their existence to be), somehow transforming it and sharing their experience with others. Yeah, whenever there is a Dharma Center (or any spiritual institution, for that matter), it can be traced to someone's original insight mined from the depths of existence with own hard work. Others can nudge me along but the journey is mine.
So I guess there's just no substitute for individual courage, determination and preseverance. In my case, through whatever methods work for me, I must get to the bottom of this thing that seems to be eating me alive. And if I do, by God, I'll have no option but share it with others. That is the only way the Dharma will be alive. For there to be light here, electricity must run through me. And if there are others to help me with that, that is precious. If not, then it's so much harder but what option is there, really?
Come here @Zero let me give you a big hug!
Formal organizations, be it home owner associations or religious organizations have always been run by those who have the spare time, so that means financially secure or retired and that means old.
And we don't have a significant monastic tradition in the west yet-- I imagine if we did, that it would have a broad range of demographics.
Exquisite.
hi shadow
i can relate
i really admire your username
miraculous things can happen.
pray on.
and don't forget to say thanks! lol (not to me, but when you get some wisdom or things go well)
the sangha i visited a few times is very kind. older gentlemen and ladies usually. sometimes new people would really have profound experiences, very inspiring! you mentioned that there is a barrier. why? is death less of a reality to you than to them? plane engines fall out of the sky.. you know? a reality for the egoic grasp that holds fast, but not for pure awareness.
so yeah. just some things to munch. friendship is very important, and being from an immigrant family myself i can resonate on the identity thing. might i suggest finding a super amazing coffee shop / tea house to establish a mini residence in (so to speak) - you need not drop the word "buddhism" or "religion" to have friends or explain your views. just a head's up from my own experience in chasing people away haha. sometimes i think i have fallen into all these pits just to climb out and show others how it's done. in a similar way, see all experience as teaching and do your best to be receptive. one thing that helped me become more close with people was practicing listening. even when i had such a hilarious experience to interject with and share, following peoples' streams to the end really engenders a sense of closeness
also, even if people are not "buddhist" they can still have had deep insights. wisdom and compassion are universally wonderful
Love and wisdom my bru
Can it be? There are ignorant Buddhists and wise people outside the dharma? Next we will be talking to rivers and asking them where they are going in such a rush. We will be questioning clouds on how the changing from ocean to sky walker is going. In fact I may just enquire of my cup of tea about all its journeys . . .
Then of course we have the inner people, residents and passing ghosts of former being. Good dharma gods and demonic hindrances. Lonely little animals and fierce wild animal brains from former monkey minds. All chattering their silent accumulations.
. . . and then we read and breath life into the great masters and hermits of old and new and share them with our online sisters, mother beings and lurking sangha . . .
Time to sit in a forest where I can not see the trees and connect to my inner companions . . .
America is The Golden Mountain. We have freedom and a true classless society. That's important to Buddhist.
I am not a member of a formal sangha. If anything, I've had the opposite reaction to the world of other people -- a chosen solo-er. I grudgingly (and suspiciously, deep down) join groups, and all because of personal experiences that deeply impacted me so I developed a weird kind of aversion. I don't 'believe' my aversion, it's a bunch of shit; but it's a relative reality my karma has resulted in, and I work with it. Originally, its intent was to protect me from being bullied or whatever, so I don't knock it or think it is 'wrong'. Your loneliness is a genuine, worthwhile need, it is on your side, looking out for your best interest. That it persists so painfully is what needs compassionate examination
I encourage you @shadowleaver, to look INSIDE for the source and resolution for your painful loneliness. We are all already profoundly connected to each other, nay, we all all One. If a person does not feel that (and I don't to the degree it is true) it is not for lack of other people to be in deep relationship with. It is some other internal misinterpretation of reality. Yeah, easily said, huh.
So perhaps you and I have experiences at 'opposite' ends of the same continuum, and our karma creates our end result -- loneliness or deliberate isolation. Either way, the solution is not for the outer circumstances of our lives to change, but how we perceive the truths we exist within.
Gassho
We meet up both inside and outside of meetings, we have meetings everywhere, we organise formal social functions and informal meetings in coffee shops. We try to support each other in anyway we can.
There's an Anglican priest at my homegroup and he says religious organisations are jealous of our community. I think you Buddhists could learn something from A.A. here!
Start them young!
Hermit
Permit
Summit
Love it
For example, you may well succeed in changing the demographic of the sangha and then making more friends but then perhaps still people will move on and you will be even more hurt by the loss of closer friends or maybe you fall out with your friends and then feel awkward and stop attending the sangha altogether or any myriad of other possibilities.
It is possible to deal with the loneliness yourself from the 'inside' so to speak and sort of permanently...
Keep your mind open to possibilities and keep practicing is probably my best go at an overall advice.
Which assumes, in Shadowleaver's case, that a group of steady spiritual friends even exists in the way Shadowleaver conceives them. "Steady spiritual friends" is just an idea, a mental/emotional appellation, not something I've seen in my near 50 years to exist. Human beings, in groups, are inevitably in some form of conflict with each other (thanks to pervasive illusion of separateness); 'dynamics' inevitably develop, including those striving for a greater portion of power, greater entitlement to dependency, the list goes on. There is NO ideal ultimately supportive group of humans who are on the same lovely wavelength in existence, not even in Buddhist sanghas.
What folks DO get their 'fix' from incessant grouping in multiple retreats, therapy groups, workshops, church groups, knitting groups, internet forums (ahem) that keeps them comin' back for more is that IDEA, I guess, that Shadowleaver is genuinely yearning for. The idea that the loneliness will be assuaged once a proper likeminded group of others is assembled. The problem is assembling them and keeping them from acting like bald monkeys fighting over the best branches and throwing shit at each other.
Gassho
PS: Egads, what a vision of sunlight and violets I have written
but buddha tells me not to dwell in the doom and gloom - liberation beckons!
that only leaves the pertinent question...
what the hell is heaven?
There's nothing wrong with wanting social connection. As you noted, the sangha plays a central role in Buddhism for a reason, and the Buddha emphasized the importance of wise companionship on the path many times. There's also the fact that social connection is a basic human need. "No man is an island" and having close connections is important to our mental and even physical health. In the not-so-distant past, it was also a matter of life and death. Without the support of a tribe, we would have little hope of survival in an indifferent or often hostile environment. So I think you're doing a very good job of honoring and acknowledging the suffering, the dukkha, that is caused by the absence of this connection in your life. I've experienced it at many points in my life, and so have others, many on this forum.
Having affirmed the role of the First Noble Truth in this context, however, I think you'll need to pay attention to the rest of the chain of suffering/dependent origination: that is, the ways in which you have (and continue to) perpetuate your own suffering, or make it worse. Obviously, no one does this on purpose. I constantly find myself downstream of a wrong turn, over and over again. That's the practice. In this case, I see two ways in which you may be creating unnecessary suffering for yourself:
1.) You created a strong sense of "self" around the differences you perceived between you and your American peers when you were younger. This is not to say there weren't salient cultural differences that you needed to account for when you arrived here. As an immigrant myself, I know how alienating American culture can seem. That initial awkward stage is inevitable, and the learning curve for social integration is pretty steep one. That is the first arrow -- the inevitable pain or adversity that life sends everyone. But the second arrow -- the one the Buddha said we shoot ourselves with -- is that it seems like you may have created an identity around it -- one that seems to have followed you over the last 15 years, and which may be affecting your thoughts, emotions, and behaviors in unhelpful ways. Gil Fronsdal has a wonderful image for "selfing": he calls it "wind drag", that is the resistance of the wind against a vehicle that is not aerodynamic. It's extra baggage. It makes life harder. It's unnecessary.
2.) I think you've picked the wrong venue in which to find the connection you need. Or at least, one that isn't really working well for you. While the sangha is certainly an important part of the Buddhist path and, yes, it could stand to attract some younger or more committed members, this isn't something that can be forced and will need to happen in its own time. Organized religion is dwindling in the West, especially among younger generations. Fewer and fewer are attending church, and even fewer will bother to looking into alternative spiritual traditions from the one they grew up in. As has been mentioned, Buddhism is a minority religion in the U.S. (understatement), and younger people are usually still in the aquisitive "suck the marrow out of life while I still can" stage. It's a rare 20-something who will be attracted to a religion that focuses on suffering, renunciation, and has a precept that proscribes drinking alcohol.
So, I would try to drop the comfortable storyline you have about your "foreignness" as much as you can. Apply the teaching of anatta like a salve to these ancient wounds. And then, since it seems your current endeavors aren't working for you, try alternative venues to meet like-minded friends. They're out there. The world is huge. As lobster mentioned, perhaps try volunteering. (VolunteerMatch.org is a very good site to find opportunities.) It will take time. I find that many young people just don't have the social skills that my generation took for granted -- specifically, the ability to keep in touch and be proactive about fostering friendship. This age of technology is making all of that seemingly (but not really) irrelevant. But there are still plenty who aren't, and still many other who are but are feeling just as lonely and cut off as you are and are willing to make the effort.
I hope my post wasn't too presumptuous. I may have read much into your posts that wasn't there. If so, I am sorry. Good luck.
Oh, and the low commitment stuff, that is true for all groups. Except those involving retirees, who essentially can dedicate themselves to recreational groups full time. That is why home owner associations, neighborhood watches, and so on are all run by old people. You just have to be at peace with the fact that memberships in groups is like an iceberg-- 90% of the members are invisible and only 10% show up and it isn't always the same 10%.
It's all about the marketing.
A Sangha is just those who take refuge in the Dharma and the Buddha.
Your hope for turning a Sangha into a "friends episode" may just be a way of trying to assuage the human condition, instead of facing and accepting what causes it.
That being said, the Sangha in my neck of the woods were once held up by a large Buddhist organization as an example of how social & spiritual needs can comfortably work together. In truth it took many years to evolve that way and perhaps was just us enjoying the company of other like minded practitioners intent on keeping their own ego's on a diet program. Those comings and goings of the many, is a sieving process that collects over time, folks who tend to share similar Dharmic aspirations and that can be a good ground to form Dharmic friendships.
The age deal is interesting.
40 years ago, the folks coming and going out of the Buddhist groups and Western Buddhist monasteries were mostly 20 year old, 10 years later the folks coming and going were mostly around 30, 10 years later 40, 10 yrs later 50, and so on.
I am still not sure what ever caused this particular aging demographic to become the main one forever finding and staying with Buddhism.
The Sangha I (rather infrequently now), attend is a bit of a mixture. Most of the members are older, however I've never found that to be an issue.
@vinlyn - I'm curious when you mention the Catholic church. In Australia, well Sydney in particular there has been a BIG change in attendance at the Churches my family (My dad and his side) attend and there are a lot of young people attending. I put it down to the priests though, they are genuinely caring, Christians who try to actually follow Jesus' teachings.
In metta,
Raven
In my home town in western NYS, the population has been pretty steady since I was a kid...with a slight increase. Yet, the Catholic Church there has become so moribund that it is now only a sub-parish, and has seen the number of weekly Masses decline by 75% (estimated). On the other hand, I recently attended a Catholic Church here in Colorado Springs that seems to be booming. So, I'm thinking that the "spirit of the community" and the leadership of the church still leads some Catholic churches to thrive, while in other places the Catholic populace no longer goes to church as a regular thing.
not to obtain what one longs for is suffering
http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/Texts-and-Translations/Short-Pieces/Dhammacakkappavattanasuttam.htm