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Am I A Bodhisattva?
mindatrisk
Veteran
Well, am I? How would you know? Can you know? What would distinguish me? What would mark me out? Can a small mind understand a great mind enough to recognise a great mind? Could the things that make you think I wouldn't be actually be the reasons that I am? For all appearances, can any one of you state as true that I am not?
I was at a Kadampa Buddhist festival a few months ago, and the resident teacher (Geshe Kelsang Gyatso) was talking about how Bodhisattvas manifest in many varied forms - some subtle, some overt, some to achieve small outcomes, some to achieve great results, but always working for the benefit of all living beings. I'd never heard this idea before and it got me thinking about what forms in our world may be Bodhisattvas and how we'd recognise them as such.
Of course, I offered up Kurt Cobain as an example, which a few of you took very seriously, whilst others got the point I was making about looking. Looking is very important. When we look with open eyes then we begin to see many amazing things, but when we start with eyes shut then even the most ardent seeker is only going to re-inforce their own perspectives.
It's been good to see that a few threads have popped up in response to that initial query, although one seemed to be in jest. It's amazing the vitriol that can be provoked by having a look, seeking in unusual places, connecting curious dots just to see what picture might appear. Even within Buddhism - a philosophy feted for being inquisitive and questioning - there still seem to be many who want remain narrowly locked in on a very small view.
Anyway, back to the question. Am I a Bodhisattva? If so, how do you know? If not, why not? And how are you able to be the judge?
I was at a Kadampa Buddhist festival a few months ago, and the resident teacher (Geshe Kelsang Gyatso) was talking about how Bodhisattvas manifest in many varied forms - some subtle, some overt, some to achieve small outcomes, some to achieve great results, but always working for the benefit of all living beings. I'd never heard this idea before and it got me thinking about what forms in our world may be Bodhisattvas and how we'd recognise them as such.
Of course, I offered up Kurt Cobain as an example, which a few of you took very seriously, whilst others got the point I was making about looking. Looking is very important. When we look with open eyes then we begin to see many amazing things, but when we start with eyes shut then even the most ardent seeker is only going to re-inforce their own perspectives.
It's been good to see that a few threads have popped up in response to that initial query, although one seemed to be in jest. It's amazing the vitriol that can be provoked by having a look, seeking in unusual places, connecting curious dots just to see what picture might appear. Even within Buddhism - a philosophy feted for being inquisitive and questioning - there still seem to be many who want remain narrowly locked in on a very small view.
Anyway, back to the question. Am I a Bodhisattva? If so, how do you know? If not, why not? And how are you able to be the judge?
1
Comments
That's about as looky loo as I can get.
If you think you're a Bodhisattva, then it would be best to start being one. A Bodhisattva is one who has vowed to aid sentient beings in reaching the Awakend State.
Read the 37 Practices of a Bodhisattva:
http://www.garchen.net/resources/37practices.pdf
You may consider taking Bodhisattva Vows at some point.
And, get to work!
If you think you're a Bodhisattva, then it would be best to start being one. A Bodhisattva is one who has vowed to aid sentient beings in reaching the Awakend State.
Read the 37 Practices of a Bodhisattva:
http://www.garchen.net/resources/37practices.pdf
You may consider taking Bodhisattva Vows at some point.
And, get to work!
I think there is a difference between someone taking the vows and becoming a practicing Bodhisattva and someone who is a realised Bodhisattva. What i'm talking about is a realised Bodhisattva, i.e. a being who has perhaps had many incarnations serving as a Bodhisattva in numerous forms. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso said that a Bodhisattva does not need to take the form of an enlightened teacher or even that of a human, but of any form that is beneficial to living beings. For example, penicillin could be regarded as a form that a Bodhisattva has taken.
The Bodhisattva does not necessarily work for the direct and immediate enlightenment of living beings but towards the 'end goal', i.e. a Bodhisattva understands that most living beings will not attain enlightenment in one lifetime - many would not even if they had direct access to a Buddha, so instead they operate to help progress living beings along the path. For example, having good material conditions is very helpful for spiritual practice, so a Bodhisattva could manifest in the form of penicillin, as I said earlier.
So, i'm looking at realised Bodhisattvas, not practicing Bodhisattvas. If I were a Bodhisattva then I wouldn't need to take the vows, and, in fact, as part of my function for being here I might have to break a few vows. Such is skilful means.
The question I ask is because, if there are manifest Bodhisattvas in our world taking forms to help living beings, then it would be ever so helpful to know how to find them! There are many helpful forms on this planet... are all helpful forms therefore Bodhisattvas, or maybe just the very, very helpful forms? Do we have minds capable of seeing them? Or can we simply trust to our karma that we might benefit from them?
Some here seem me as a pain-in-the-arse, that is certainly true, but why is that? Is it because I am a pain-in-the-arse, or is it just that I am perceived as a pain-in-the-arse, and if it is just perception (and how could it not be) then what are the causes of the perception? Am I a pain-in-the-arse because I speak utter and total nonsense, in which case, you could (and would) just ignore me, or am I a pain-in-the-arse because I get between the cracks of spiritual comfort zones and expose the bull-shit? I'm going to be a pain-in-the-arse and suggest it is the latter.
One thing is for certain, that my presence here exposes a fundamental flaw in the spiritual practice of many here. Buddhism is ALL about our own mind, and yet the amount of times certain people have told me that I am X, Y and Z and that I do X, Y and Z when, in truth, it's just their minds imputing everything... everything. Someone like me should be regarded as an absolute blessing in a Buddhist forum...
'Oh, great, Mindatrisk is causing trouble again, what a wonderful chance to practice patience and to observe my mind and to extend my compassion and understanding to this unfortunate sod' etc. etc. And YET... well, we know how people respond to me here.
So, back to the question - only now with another layer, because we can see that not only might Bodhisattvas take on non-human, non-overt forms, but they might take on forms that actually cause quite a bit of trouble. Therefore, could George W. Bush be a Bodhisattva? His actions certainly woke a fair few people up to certain political insanities. What is the measure? What criteria should we be using? Is it even possible for us to know what form a Bodhisattva has manifested? Maybe our minds are simply too small to understand the being and doing of a Bodhisattva. Still, for the sake of discussion...
The Bodhisattva does not necessarily work for the direct and immediate enlightenment of living beings but towards the 'end goal', i.e. a Bodhisattva understands that most living beings will not attain enlightenment in one lifetime - many would not even if they had direct access to a Buddha, so instead they operate to help progress living beings along the path. For example, having good material conditions is very helpful for spiritual practice, so a Bodhisattva could manifest in the form of penicillin, as I said earlier.
So, i'm looking at realised Bodhisattvas, not practicing Bodhisattvas. If I were a Bodhisattva then I wouldn't need to take the vows, and, in fact, as part of my function for being here I might have to break a few vows. Such is skilful means.
The question I ask is because, if there are manifest Bodhisattvas in our world taking forms to help living beings, then it would be ever so helpful to know how to find them! There are many helpful forms on this planet... are all helpful forms therefore Bodhisattvas, or maybe just the very, very helpful forms? Do we have minds capable of seeing them? Or can we simply trust to our karma that we might benefit from them?
REALIZED Bodhisattva??????
Okay now I understand.
Still, it'a maybe/maybe not.
Do they look like this?
I'm joking somewhat ... that's a depiction of a Sambodhakaya form. You're talking about Nirmanakaya. Beings like us can't see the Samboghakaya form. We can see Nirmanakaya. The form of the Buddha that turned the wheel of Dharma was Nirmanakaya.
I think you can't always recognize a Bodhisattva. You may go through a life and meet one or many, but never truly recognize them. They say the Dalai Lama is an emanation of the Bodhisattva Mahasattva Avalokiteshvara (pictured above). Do you you recognize him as such (don't worry, you don't have to ...)? If you don't recognize that, then a more subtle or obscure manifestation will most likely escape you.
Interesting what Geshe-la said about penicillin. I hadn't considered that.
Remember, Bodhisattvas pass through countless lifetimes, just like we all do. Through skillfull means they manifest for the benefit of beings on their path to awakening.
Ultimately you don't have to know if a Bodhisattva has crossed your path, but it's safe to say that one or more already has across your innumerable lifetimes.
That's why I started this whole conversation going as an example of looking... we have a much better chance of seeing when we are looking. If we begin to look for Bodhisattvas (and there's no reason or rule why we should not) then we can harness their benefits so much more, and share those benefits with others. I am sure that Bodhisattvas want to help as many living beings as possible, I don't think they need or desire to be shrouded in mystery or unseen by us. If penicillin is a Bodhisattva emanation then i'm sure said Bodhisattva is delighted that so many have benefited from it!
So, I disagree with you on this one, Chazzy Chaz Chaz. I think we should be looking for help and helpers, and I think we need to broaden our perspective of what that help and those helpers might look like. The one i'll offer up is Ayahuasca. For me, if what Geshe-la taught is true then I can see no better contender for an emanation of a Bodhisattva in a non-human form. It's even regarded as a 'teaching plant', and has been described as like 20 years of therapy in one night. Here is a great article about it in National Geographic...
http://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/adventure/0603/features/peru.html
Nowhere in a any teaching I've ever heard of is there any instruction to seek out Bodhisattvas. They'll find you if that's your karma. That said, if you want to keep on looking, then knock yourself out!
We cannot pick and choose karma, for karma is all, but we can have the wisdom to see, we can have the wisdom to understand, we can have the wisdom to see and understand that not every discussion is a YOU vs ME but is sometimes a 'knock, knock' from your said karma.
The Dalai Lama is an obvious contender. He is probably responsible for spreading Buddhism and the Dharma further than anyone in Buddhist history. There is no doubt to me that he is a Bodhisattva... Geshe-la too.
If you really DO something compassionate, that enables another being to see that there is much, much more than their miserable self-obsession, you have moved mountains.
All the rest is mental masturbation and shouldn't be mistaken for anything more.
Gassho
That they descend into 'pissing contests' is the responsibility of the participants, not the opening post. I am here as a genuine seeker, and yeah, I ask challenging questions, I share unusual perceptions, but I am 100% sincere in doing so, and I can promise you that. I don't judge anyone, I don't attack anyone, I don't make personal comments, I just discuss the points at hand.
I think a time will come - and do hold me to this, but be patient too - when some here will look back on what i've said and recognise the truth in my words. I think the problem now is that I have a reputation, and that reputation sullies my posts and casts them in a certain, undeserved, light, i.e. that I post to stir people up, which, if you knew me, you'd realise how ridiculous a statement that was. Alas, you don't.
But the point remains the same - and I think this is what upsets people - is that your perceptions, your thoughts, your feelings, are your responsibility. If you are pissed off by me then that is because of you, not me. I don't think people like that being said to them, and yet, that is the essence of Buddhism.
Many times i've felt anger, despondency, frustration, and upset here. In my life it has been hard to find others so dedicated to the spiritual life, and so to come here and to expect to form connections only to find people wanting to chase me out of town has been difficult. But I know myself, I know my intentions, I know my actions, and, sadly, they are misunderstood here, but that is okay!
I am responsible for my mind. Any anger, any despondency, any frustration, etc. that I feel is MY responsibility. To me, it does not matter how anyone acts towards me here, how I respond is my choice and my responsibility. I can assure you with all my heart that all my actions here are born of a desire to be helpful and beneficial here... it just so happens that maybe the biggest help and benefit I can offer here is to have the role that I have now. The truth is the truth whether it is liked or not - and i'll say again for posterity - one day some here will look back and see that I have spoken truth.
If you really DO something compassionate, that enables another being to see that there is much, much more than their miserable self-obsession, you have moved mountains.
All the rest is mental masturbation and shouldn't be mistaken for anything more.
Gassho
So, why are you replying here?
I think a similar thing would apply here....
"If you have to ask then you can't be it....."
~diamond sutra
:thumbsup:
Because I thought you might want to know
If there is nothing else in Buddhist wisdom, it is putting the most amount of work into seeing yourself (your mind, your actions, their consequences etc) as clearly as possible.
What you intend, and how you are perceived, is excellent grist for the mill. If what you intend is different than how you are perceived, who do you think is responsible for that, and how is that responsibility assigned?
If you have an important message, and have a hard time getting the point across, if your first conclusion is that THEY are Jews and you are Jesus (for metaphor's sake, not literally) then I trust your intention less and less. And before you say it doesn't matter, it does matter, very much, if you tend to inspire lack of trust in your intention.
Obviously your brain is alive with ideas, and frankly, I believe that is an excellent thing, possibly for everyone whom you meet and interact with. However, the attitudes you have beneath your ideas do you no favors
Gassho
Did you mean 'who is not bound up?' Otherwise most of us are bodhisattvas.
You're over-analyzing. Right now, the chances are that if you wouldn't recognize a Bodhisattva, of any sort, if one knocked you down and sat on you, so don't worry about it. Better to practice to gain the skillful means to know one when you see him or her or it. It'll be of greater benefit to beings to practice than to concern yourself with this ........ meeting.
So, to answer your question, we are each responsible for our own perceptions, always. There might be a huge gap between how I am and how you see me, but whether that is justified or not, you remain responsible for your perceptions. If it is creating a problem for me that I wish to change then it is for me to change, but it actually isn't. I trust myself. I know my mind and intentions very well. I know that if you met me you would love me, and to some degree that gives me the freedom to remain true to myself here. How you and others are reading my words on a screen and how they are actually being written are two very different things. But in this case i've decided not to change, because I think there is a bigger picture and a bigger lesson for us all to learn through this. There was a wink at the end of that sentence which should have told you all you needed to know about what I was saying, but even if there wasn't, I ask again, are my words on a screen really sufficient for you to have any judgements or conclusions about me? Do you feel it is fair to lose trust in someone based on some pixels? I've said this many times here before... if you really want to judge me then at least meet me in person and spend time with me, but doing it based on this is a bit silly. I'm 31! And I am NOT arrogant! Again, please, if you want to judge then meet me! You have no idea who you are talking to, and likewise I have no idea who I am talking to. I know nothing about you at all, and I wouldn't for a second presume that I could know anything about you from your words on a screen. I'm not here to share a message. But I feel that I and a few others here are locked in a karmic dance for whatever reasons, and for as long as I feel impelled to be here then i'm happy (and curious) to play my part. But do me a favour, forget about personal comments, it's pointless, just comment on what is being said and leave the assumptions to one side. You don't know me, I don't know you, so let's respect that and just enjoy the discussion.
You humble guys . . . such fun . . .
Yours in humility (almost)
Good answer, but how do you know? That's what i'm interested in.
You are not a bodhisattva, because you haven't taken the vows.
The vows are everything that a bodhisattva is. It's a personal journey to enlightenment.
The bodhisattva vows to help all beings to liberation as a skillful means to avoid spending aeons of delusion believing that nirvana is the enlightenment of a Buddha.
That's my understanding right now. A Tibetan Buddhist can correct me.
The vows are everything that a bodhisattva is. It's a personal journey to enlightenment.
The bodhisattva vows to help all beings to liberation as a skillful means to avoid spending aeons of delusion believing that nirvana is the enlightenment of a Buddha.
That's my understanding right now. A Tibetan Buddhist can correct me.
Read up a few posts. I'm talking about something else, although I didn't make that clear in my OP.
No because I know. :om:
Talk about fairies, leprechauns, and witches. Whatever you want.
If you don't know what it means to be a bodhisattva, why speculate about whether you might be one or not?
I do not think I am a Bodhisattva. That is not the point of that thread. I think you know this. Are you not stirring the pot by saying this?
me....that's the only way I can connect to/with you. Do you mean meet/know
is just ..."Hi, my name is Chuck...dont ask nothing else"?
...... Just my style I guess.....I want to know a little more about
how you 'be' in the world....then I can rap Dharma with you
You seem to be pushing the book at me...but not showing much
compassion/concern/interest in what I got going on.
Are you responsible for that part?
Of all the threads of mine....your absent.
I need some love with my truth...just sayin'....
Along the Bodhisattva path the first bumhi is to have the kleshas all taken care of because you realize they are essenceless.
The rest of the bodhisattva path is to develop skills to help sentient beings.
That's fine if you have your own definition of a bodhisattva. I could define a cat as a being with six legs.
If you don't know what it means to be a bodhisattva, why speculate about whether you might be one or not?
The thread is not about whether I am a Bodhisattva or not, but about how we would know one way or the other. I think that is clear in the OP and in the ensuing discussion. I am talking about a concept shared by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. I really think that is clear. There doesn't need to be any misunderstanding here. If there is then I apologise, but I think i've shared my thoughts very clearly in this thread.
I meant here. You would be surprised how heart filling of a
connection you can make here...when you spend time and
attention on others...then yourself.
I'm off...take care....and between you and me..... when it comes
to Truth...you can show 'em better than you can tell 'em.
May you be well.
I'm a group kind of gal.....hahaha
But, now that you've explained your conditioning/experience...It
helps me to understand your approach to us....Thank-you for that.
From my own experience here....I think the admins are going for
a community vibe...not a discussion shoot off...with no mercy.
We kinda like mercy around here....
It is just too cute to throw up this kind of response when you receive criticism. Not just you, when anyone throws up that straw man 'the real person' behind the words like that has ANYTHING to do with addressing the responses you are getting!
I feel confident I would like you very much, I thoroughly enjoy the 'kids' in my kids' cohort
In fact, just from your words, I can sense you are sincere and kind-hearted. I can tell you enjoy a lively debate, and that it means very much to you to be right. I can tell you have cultivated a capacity for 'reasoning' away those presenting challenges to you ideas. I can tell you are intelligent, but that you've yet to grasp there other 'tools' to make sense of life than intellect, but rarely smart folks your age do. That is NOT an insult, it is merely an observation by virtue of vantage point. The human mind develops to a certain point and then seems to 'undevelop' past a certain point. I must say there is so much more available to understand now that I don't take how smart I am so seriously.
You, as a being, are invaluable and not subject to judgment. Your ideas, on the other hand, are on the table. You are not your ideas, or your intelligence or your accomplishments. You confuse criticism of your ideas with criticism of you, but I personally am only criticizing the processes of your mind.
I don't quite believe you when you say you are quite comfortable inside your mind and self, your behavior (as evidenced by your OP, and responses to it) says otherwise. HOWEVER, that is OK!!! That is fantastic, and completely a good thing, not bad. It's OK to admit you are struggling to understand, I already know that. It's a bit stinky to deny your struggle to me, but it doesn't matter, we're all struggling off and on
Gassho