What is this?
how
Veteran Veteran
I was on another Buddhist web site that went through an interesting transition a number of years ago.
Many of the submitting posters who formally hid behind web names and avatars, started deciding to just come out and stand behind their real names and photos. While some of this was in response to much of the subject matter being about the secrecy and manipulations around some Buddhist organizations, I liked the new tone that it brought to that site.
It was like comparing the adversarial levels of how folks respond to other car drivers while driving compared to how they do while walking with other pedestrians along the side walk.
I am not suggesting in any way that it should be a rule. Some folks have legitimate reasons to hide who they are but I was wondering about what the various posters here thought about it?
Comments
i think it just depends on the person. Because everything is searchable by google, including everything here (except members only, I think) a lot of people don't want their religious affiliations exposed by such a simple search. I can understand. We've had multiple members of our small sangha here alone confronted at stores and so on about their beliefs,and it can get very uncomfortable. Add to that that in a small town, that kind of information can make it hard to even get a job, I understand why people don't completely out themselves. So just for that reason alone, I can totally understand it. But I agree with you that it certainly makes people more accountable and seems to make things more civil and open. There are a lot of places I use my real name (and really this one isn't not my real name, it's just not my current legal name, lol) and I certainly am not one to hide my beliefs. If a person won't hire me because of my beliefs, I don't want to work for them. But I understand why others care.
@Karasti
Yeah.. I'd probably have to dance around my porch naked with an Uzi in each hand to get noticed in my neighborhood in a big city..
The reason people are more polite on the sidewalk is that it's a much more personal form of interaction which human culture has had a long time to adapt to. I believe the rancor in online communities has nothing to do with anonymity, because I've seen online communities where everyone knew everyone's real identity, but we were all much more cantankerous with each other than I've ever seen people get on a Buddhist forum, and face-to-face with these people was always much more civilized.
The road and the internet leave much more room for imagination about people's attitudes and intentions, which makes it much easier to project one's internal hostility onto other people's behavior.
I suppose you haven't considered that driving is deadly serious, and it would be rather difficult to harm someone walking on the sidewalk. I also suppose this apparent lack of consideration may reflect the levels of consideration flowing throughout the other forum, yes?
We must be talking about Treeleaf. Kinda funny that you keep the other forum anonymous, in any case, considering the subject.
Indeed.
Quite deliberately, not so much now, I used to write on many levels. It used to astound me how people on the net found an insult, defamation or confrontation, where this was something not intended but on some level was present. However the communication is in the result much more than the intention. Yes, it seems this is how people interact without visual and other cues. :rolleyes:
It is why the emoticons are so important . . .
As for pic plus real name; There are some disturbed people on the net, I and Mr Cushion am 27 of them . . . . :buck: I was cyber stalked for many years with long daily communications which I could not respond to, without making a disturbed person worse. It all started with a name and a pic for the sake of transparency . . .
Also we have the dutiful, who feel the need to protect the innocent, the children and the terminally fragile and educate all on the perceived machinations that reflect their insecurities rather than the good will of others . . .
The younger internet generation is Facebook, selfie savvy, leading to a degree of openness that the more conservative fear. Transparency is coming. It starts symbolically and as an ideal, eventualy what emerges is the pragmatic.
:wave:
What do I think about it?
I think it's my fear.
Fear of a stalker. Fear of ID theft. Fear of being targeted bec of where I work.
Fear of being targeted bec of my social activism.
Fear that my children would be targeted.
I'm old and a bit crabby when it comes to anonymity: If you can't stand responsible for the things you say, why imagine that anyone should take you at your word ... that sort of thing.
My name is Adam Fisher. I live in Northampton, Mass., USA. I use my Dharma name, Genkaku (original realization, original understanding), here because it's kind of a Buddhist venue and I got into the habit a long time ago. Bit by bit, I am trying to change my name in all communications back to what I was born with. I dislike how I look in photos, so ... nuff said... though I did add a pic.
I can understand most of the reasons people give for their desire to remain anonymous, but, probably because of my age and circumstances, have less patience with them than once. I find them weak and somewhat irresponsible ... but as I say, I am old and probably have less to lose, whether imagined or otherwise.
There are places I feel the need for some anonymity, but not here. Vincent Lynch, Colorado Springs.
The only thing that bothers me about a person's anonymity Online is when they then decide to make rude and racist comments.
I like being "Aspiring_Buddhist" on here - first time in a very long while I've changed my Nom de Plume.
It wouldn't be a bad thing to reveal my, ahem* "Christian Name" (snicker) on here, I am a person of very little consequence to those outside of my family - no fame or reputation to be worry about.
Just like being AB.
Lobsterian pragmatism. Who could have foreseen that coming.
I for one am weak and irresponsible in the way that you mean, I believe. That is not to say that I don't strive to be better. Also I don't think it's quite so black and white. The weak and irresponsible may play a part that the strong and responsible cannot play.
So is Treeleaf the shining example of strength and responsibility, @how?
@ Nevermind
I have no idea what Treeleaf is like but I gather that you do.
Interesting enough, the other site is mostly filled with older ex monks and nuns who, like Genkaku, find that their practice is better reflected through a manifestation of transparency and public disclosure.....that.......perhaps some of the differences here are because there are so many younger posters.
Perhaps this is an age related phenomena?
Doesn't it strike you as odd that you should keep the forum anonymous, considering the subject matter of this topic?
Another situation is people who work in social services and other such things. My sister works at a women's abuse and crisis center and while their last names aren't used with clients, having a unique first name and being a state or city employee means you are a public employee, and your information is in the public white pages. So then you have angry spouses who were left looking for case workers and so on (it happens more than you'd want to believe).
I certainly have nothing to hide here and the people who live around here already know I'm a Satan-worshipping, witchcraft-practicing Buddhist. Karasti is my maiden name. I use it a lot because it is just me. I am 100% Finnish and it is a Finnish name, so I tend to stick with it despite having taken my husband's name when we got married. First name is Kimberly. Kim to everyone except my grandma. But I won't give my married name because my husband is a public employee in a somewhat sensitive job. Anyone friends with me on FB already knows my married last name.
I started using my picture when I fell into teaching at the buddha center. since then on buddhist websites I've always used a pic and my real name, which turned into Jayantha when I was given it after taking the 8 lifetime precepts. I think it brings a sense of community, personality, and honesty when you get to know who you are dealing with.
im taking that coursara course buddhism and modern psychology, and on that forum you can actually make your post anonymous.., which imo is the worst thing you can do for a web forum. At least when I say something that offended others or that people took exception to, they know who they are talking to and it gives me a chance to reevaluate my mindful typing and break down the ego by getting to apologize.
ha! Is it the course offered thru princeton? I'm taking it as well. I think i'm under my married name there because its how I registered. I'm from more of an old school day where the actual anon. function should be reserved to protect sensitive topics and nothing else.
I do have a Buddhist name as well but I never use it in public, not even on our sangha page on FB. It's just too much work to have 2 pages! Gyurme Palmo is my given Buddhist name.
Whew. Now I'm totally out of the Buddha closet!
@Nevermind
I only asked what folks thought about posting behind being anonymous.
Just as I respect your wish to remain anonymous, I am not prepared to out the other web site although I have occasionally PM'ed folks about it here when I thought the other site might better address their particular difficulties..
Howard Mitchell
I'm trying to think of any possible reason why you would keep that forum anonymous. Is it perhaps a secret society?
Do they perhaps engage in illegal activities on this other forum?
There's a lot of helpful stuff I say as fivebells which I wouldn't say in a way google would tie back to me.
It's just a figleaf, though. There is at least one social data-mining company who has tied fivebells back to my real name, and hundreds of people who know the connection.
Please, please, please, please leave your fig leaf on!
Just think of it as resistance training for the practice of restraint of the senses....
Vajracakra.com the specialist Dzogchen site requires full disclosure of name and other checked details before you are allowed to join. Just sayin'.
When posting you can use any name you like. But the admin know who you actually are.
And they have run checks.
I'm curious as to what our admins think about this.......
@Lincoln
The owners (myself and @Brian) are both well-known entities on the web with basically no anonymity whatsoever. It would take you precious little research to land on our doorstep or be talking to us on the phone (please don't interpret that as a challenge; I'm a social introvert and wouldn't appreciate it).
I witnessed this type of transition on our other site, Icrontic.com, as Facebook & Twitter rose to popularity, specifically the avatar -> face transition. As you can see, I sit on the other side of that chasm as I have for years. A few have done the same; most haven't. Hell I didn't even know @federica's real name until a few years ago!
On the other hand, you'll notice I don't post a helluva lot in many topics here. I don't really put myself in a position of debate & argument very often; I think I used to more frequently when I was just a screen name (or was it because I was younger or less intellectually lazy? I don't know).
Many people are not in a position to advertise their identity. I would discourage children from sharing identifying information, or even reusing their screen names in multiple places. Many people have jobs that demand social conformity on some level. Some need space from a spouse, their family, or friends to explore who they are; in general, I think someone exploring their identity is (and should be) less inclined to declare their identity beforehand. And of course, some folks are the victims of stalkers or other unwanted attention that do not feel safe having their identity known. That needs to be respected.
I do think it changes the dynamic, overall, to have your name or face known. I'm not sure it's all better or all worse; it's just different. Some will like the change and some won't. I made my own choice.
Wow, are they insane? Who wants that level of liability and work? Can you imagine that list being leaked? They're probably storing all that in a bloody web-connected database that's a few keystrokes away from being hacked. Talk about solving a social problem the wrong way. :eek2: Not impressed.
//Edit: Let me add that I can certainly think of scenarios where that's an appropriate check to make. I'm a participant on a forum that requires an application including your full name, contact into, and field-related experience. However, that's not a public forum. If you're participating in a public internet space on a general topic, that's a really heavy participation barrier and one that is troubling from a data-management perspective (a Buddhist group running a simple phpBB install doesn't scream data security to me). If you all volunteered your names and addresses I'd tell you to get the hell away from my server with that kind of data! I don't even like having IP addresses logged as long as they are.
Not suggesting its wider adoption @Lincoln.
The result is a small membership which is self selecting. Which was probably the intention.
It makes no pretence at being other than elitist...
Anyone joining who is not pretty much already committed to Dzogchen is made unwelcome.
Out of curiosity, how long are IP addresses logged for?
An IP is logged for every post forever. The forum also retains your last active IP address at any given moment.
Around 1993, I joined a BBS that required your name and address (you had the option to hide that information). It was hosted by a college, so it wasn't much of a deal. Until the college opted to stop hosting and someone took it over privately at their home. So now they have all that information, lol. But, I've been there for more than 20 years now (holy moly!) and I've never had a problem. It wouldn't have dawned on me at the time to be concerned with who had such benign information as my name and address and email. I am more cautious now, but the internet is a different world now, too.
Self selecting and elitist? It appears to be a monoculture comprised largely of those dissatisfied with dharmawheel.net. Not unlike ZFI and Treeleaf, in being monoculture.
It is a monoculture. I don't think that they would disagree. It doesn't seek to be anything else.
Point being, anonymity is a moot point in a monoculture, because all dissonant voices are "made unwelcome," as you say, regardless of anonymity.
Belt and braces.
Who cares really, as a forum we are just talking about existential issues... The only people interested are those who have an interest in there own existence, and what it means to them. Putin/Obama - they are so self-interested that we mean nothing to them in reality, so I am Jason - but do you care, would you rather have anataman argue and dispute and challenge you whilst he cringe at his comments after posting them. No didn't think so!
Bless you all - [cringe]
I am Jay Bardsley, 30 yrs old, from Manchester, UK... Love this thread :-) lovely to meet you all... Again... I work for the police in the counter-fraud squad... I'm a retired - read "failed" musician who took it badly and found the dharma, lol xx
Am I the only one who misses Howard when he's gone? ..
..
May he be well.....
Nope, you aren't alone. I miss his input. He has a gift for saying much with few words. Unlike myself
Fascinating. I'd have never imagined that there was this much behind the anonymity of screen names. To me they've always seemed like fun, fanciful sparkles, and some of them are witty. I liked the thread where some people explained their screen names. I guess I'm pretty boring in this regard. Interesting perspective on identity. If people in my management chain knew I posted on a Buddhist forum, it'd probably just confirm what a looney I am.
Personally I think everybody in the world is too self absorbed to even care about what I do. The only reason others would care is so they can have something to talk about or something to judge. But I believe that judgement is temporary, just like feelings. You can change how others feel about you in seconds.
>
Which is why so many are ready to respond to your posts with support, encouragement and assistance....
>
Do we make you feel judged? Do you think you merit judgement?
>
Possibly. But you cannot change WHAT they feel about you. That is their choice.
You too eh @karasti.
In some parts of USA, that is how the uncodly non Christians are demonised. Being in a big metropolis here, people can leave Buddhas in their front yards, without fear of burning crosses and people in bed sheets turning up with requests to 'believe in Cheeze 'r US' (Jesus).
It's a toss up here. Putting out a garden Buddha might result in nothing, or more likely would result in someone kidnapping him and leaving him in a ditch along with all the other non-Christian things they steal and discard, from political signs to prayer flags, and so on.
@heyiamacrab that's not always the case. Sometimes, once people find out you believe differently than them, they find you a threat and not only will they not like you much, but they won't hire you for a job, won't watch your kids in daycare, and so on. When people are set in their beliefs in that manner, their loyalty to their beliefs come before being willing to listen to what you have to say about yours.
Somebody forgot to put an april fools joke in the thread explaining forum names haha
So sad for them . . .
. . . however great news. The other day I was cycling in the east end along the Thames. There are some expensive houses on one side of the road. On the other, traditional east end poverty housing. On one of the poor flats I saw Tibetan prayer flags. A practitioner. Hope. On the same route is an elephant. Probably Ganesh inspired rather than Republican.
The prayer flags are quite near this Churchyard which is where the Pilgrim Fathers in the Mayflower to USA sailed from . . . (I only know because a small blue plaque mentions it).
The Lama on my street, yes there really is one, used to have prayer flags. Now just a diamond type window decoration, very ordinary, nothing extraordinary to mark ones being . . .
Wind. Flutter. Gone.
St Mary Rotherhithe ?