Compassion
Padmini42
Explorer
I'll admit that when first traveling on the Buddhist path, I had trouble expressing compassion for others. While this doesn't necessarily mean that I didn't express compassion at all, I was selective with whom I gave it to. Upon some self examination I realized that I had only been practicing half-if even that much-of Buddhist principles. Compassion is not some exclusive trivial gift you fling to a select few but rather an over flowing gift of welcomes and understanding for all. It is easy to hold contempt for others, or express misgivings to people who have done so to you. For example, we all know of the stereotypical American Christian follower is often portrayed as a follower and preacher of dogma. Now while we all know this is not always the case is it easy to assume that some one who identifies themselves with a specific religion does not have the desire or the aspirations to seek enlightenment (as we understand it.)
_I would like to take a moment to point out that in addition to not always be the stereotype, compassion is also an important element in Christian practices. This can be difficult to express on both sides in any situation in which per-concieved notions come into play. _
However, if we look within ourselves (as I have) we may find that we are just as guilty of preaching principles but only practicing them when convenient. Now I will say that this does not go for everyone reading this but it is not a bad idea to step back and view the qualities of ourselves that are reflected in others. In recognizing these qualities we can continue to practice compassion and love without having to be selective.
Now I am no saint but after learning that I share such imperfected qualities I feel much better, and am even working harder to express compassion to everyone.
~*Just food for thought, hope I someone learned a snid-bit of information from reading this 
Comments
Not all people deserve compassion. Sorry, that's my viewpoint.
I don't like the yellow scrolly thing. It is hard to read.
Where does the yellow scrolly thing come from? I've seen it in other posts, I agree, very hard to read especially when it is multiple lines.
I disagree with @vinlyn. I believe we are all the same at our true nature, at our deepest core, however you want to say it. Having compassion for other beings is a recognition of that. But it takes time and practice to develop it for those we are not close to, and the most time of course for the most challenging people in our lives. I have the hardest time with some of my family members, for various reasons, and I practice loving kindness and tonglen for them every single day. It's gotten easier, but I can't say I like them as people whatsoever. But the more I understand about their lives, and why they are the way they are, the easier it is to be compassionate, even if I don't like them. Having compassion doesn't mean being ok with their actions.
In my experience, the more compassion you can muster for yourself (sometimes that is the hardest) and others, the more open and expansive you are. You react better to things, and people react better to you. Every single person suffers, for vastly different reasons that we cannot always understand. Because of that simple fact ,they all deserve compassion for that suffering and for the depth of their obstacles covering their true nature.
When you click on the C (Code, ctrl-O) it puts it in
yellowlike that......not sure what purpose it serves????I understand your POV, Karasti, but I will counter with the example of Pol Pot: "He presided over a totalitarian dictatorship that imposed a radical form of agrarian socialism on the country. His government forced urban dwellers to relocate to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labor projects. The combined effects of executions, forced labor, malnutrition, and poor medical care caused the deaths of approximately 25 percent of the Cambodian population. In all, an estimated 1 to 3 million people (out of a population of slightly over 8 million) died due to the policies of his four-year premiership."
I think we understand Pol Pot pretty well. My compassion goes to the 1-3 million people whom he had killed in tortuous ways, their families and friends, and the children who were never born because of him or never lived long enough to have had a real life due to him.
Any concept of infinite compassion is really no real compassion at all
Just my humble belief; I am not asking anyone else to share it.
You have compassion on Pol Pot hoping he will heal. So that he doesn't do it again in his next life.
I don't think infinite compassion means no compassion. "too much" of something doesn't turn it into nothing. It reminds me of when my 5 year old occasionally tells me "You can't love my brothers AND me!" and like I always tell him, the more love you love others, the more love there is in the world, and the more you can love even more. Compassion is much the same (in my experience).
I'm not saying it's easy to develop that kind of compassion for the Pol Pots and Hitlers in the world. Feeling compassion doesn't mean you are trying to make the "bad guy" feel better. It is just a recognition. They aren't people who simply made a choice to do bad things. That all came from somewhere, and it is those causes and conditions we can look to and find compassion within.
It's taking the same unconditional feelings you might have for someone else (like a child) and expanding it to someone else. My children might one day make horrible choices. I will love them and have compassion for them anyhow. So when I have a rough time finding compassion for someone, I try to imagine myself as their mother. What they were like as a young child. Being able to look at other people in that view changes it entirely.
No, you do.
I meant that as 'one' rather than 'you vinlyn'. You can believe whatever you want, but I meant 'one' (who views as such) has compassion.
Buddha said hate is only abated through love. PP needs some love his next life so he doesn't do the same thing again. We all win.
Jeffrey, I'm not asking you to change your view. But I see your message to Pol Pot as meaningless claptrap. He's dead. He can't hear you. You wouldn't know him if you tripped over him in the street. And whatever you said to his...what...ghost...he wouldn't understand your language (I assume you don't speak Khmer). In my personal view -- which I am not asking you to accept -- that's just let's all feel good and happy flower power language. It doesn't DO anything.
Now, if you have compassion for a person convicted of a crime and do something for him or for his family (or for that matter his victims), to me, that is compassion.
If you see a child being beat up by bullies and you step in and help protect the child, to me, that is compassion.
If you work in a soup kitchen that feeds the homeless, to me, that is compassion.
If you donate money to a charity, to me, that is compassion.
If you hold the hand of someone who is experiencing great sorrow or stress or suffering, to me, that is compassion.
Again, that's just my viewpoint. I'm not asking it to be yours.
For all any of us know, we could be a reborn Hitler or Polpot. Or maybe they are one of those little fruit flies that keep getting drown in my shower.
I like this quote about it:
We cannot choose who we invite to our compassion party. Our mother may show up, but so may Hitler. So may other people who are very confused, and who act out of that confusion and harm innocent people. We have to offer them all the guacamole dip and invite them to take a seat. We are all in this society together. We cannot close our hearts to psychopaths, or potential psychopaths. We have to be willing to help everyone. In fact, the potential psychopaths are the ones who need our help most of all.
Perhaps if Pol Pot had gotten loving kindness and compassion to start with, he would not have ended up in a situation where he was doing what he did. The question is, where are the Pol Pots, the Adam Lanzas, the Charlie Mansons now, and what can we do to prevent them from doing something? How many people are dismissed, bullied, not honored for who they are, who are brewing acts of horrendous qualities? We can't predict at this point who will be the next serial killer or cruel dictator. But we can look at people in our lives around us and offer compassion to them before it's too late for them and their potential victims.
There is a little girl at my son's preschool who is 3 years old. She's not mean but she's a bit unrefind, and quite a bit younger than a lot of the other kids. Her classmates have already labeled her as someone not to like. 2 boys in line said they hated her. Another group of girls sit in a corner and talk about her. She plays by herself almost all the time. She's 3. THREE! Another mom and I got together and met with the teachers about the comments we were hearing from the kids while waiting in line at the door and so on, and then we both talked to our son's and how this little girl might feel, and what we might do to help. Today when I picked the boys up, they told me they had invited her to play with them and they all had fun. Will it make a huge difference in that girl's life? Who knows. But she was a girl who was hurting and needed someone to step in. She deserves compassion. But so do the kids who aren't being so nice to her because that is where the change comes from.
But we cannot help everyone. It's impossible. We're lucky if, in our lives, we actually help a few hundred people.
I am able to find compassion for folks like Pol Pot or Hitler so much easier than I can find it for that snooty, uptight, snooki-want-to-be that was rude to me at the gas station counter today while I was in a hurry and suffering from every chronic health issue I have all at the same time. Okay, that was a made up example but it's close.
It's moral laziness on my part - I've felt compassion for folks who have done much worse, but folks I come in contact with every day, folks who haven't done anything that requires me to break out some of the spiritual heavy equipment - they're my challenge and my teachers.
I do understand your position vinlyn, I just can't go there myself. I'm reminded of the line, "You are not punished for your anger; you're punished by your anger." Insert resentment, lack of compassion, etc., in there and it still works out pretty much the same. There are plenty of people who have done more than their part to deserve vilification, but it hurts me when I do. And because our true natures are the same, what hurts me hurts all.
From start to finish - brilliant.
I'm keeping this.
Wow.....now I'm just depressed.
I did a charity event a couple of years ago where I lived on $2 a day for 5 days. That money went toward building a school in PNG for under privileged kids. Let's say there were 100 kids at that school. That means I helped 100 kids in 5 days!!
That's a third of my quota in under a week.
I'll stop and put my feet up now
Ah, okay Bunks, what about the other 7 billion?
But seriously, Bunks, you just made my point for me. You did something. You actively helped some other people. You made a clear impact. You didn't just think something....have warm, fuzzy feelings. That's actually my point.
And BTW, congratulations for your effort! Now that's compassion!
So Jeffrey, it seems to me that you are saying that what you do for Pol Pot now will affect him in his next life. So 2 questions:
How exactly does that work...that something that you do affects another person's karma...a person you have no contact with whatsoever?
Are you admitting there is a soul and that there is a Pol Pot in a future life?
I believe, that having made a great start, Bunks is leaving the rest to us.
Seriously though, I have a question. What do you mean by 'help'? There is dropping a dime in someone's parking meter as you walk by and see the meter maid coming - and there is donating a kidney to a stranger. If any and all things helpful qualify as 'help' then I think you are grossly underestimating the number of people we can help. If you have parameters on how much help is actually needed to qualify than of course, the number can be whittled away till we can help almost no one.
If there is no rebirth then there is no point of thinking about pol pot. But I believe in rebirth. Also I don't agree that you have to do something for it to be compassion. Compassion is an attitude and feeling and not a measure of the results. I can have compassion for someone else without being able to help them.
I understand your PoV, but you don't have to give extreme examples like Pol Pot straightaway. What you say is right, but this can be understood even by observing the people in our own lives (so you don't have to point to extreme instances to prove your point).
Let's see if I can handle these questions!
I don't cultivate bodhicitta for a certain person. I cultivate for all people. If I can do that then it is like I have an eternal flame candle and go around lighting each persons candle. So just by my dharma practice such as precepts or meditation if I practice that then whoever I meet in this life and next benefit.
Also it is a mystery. People dedicate their Buddhist practice to other people. I would say that is ubiquitous in many sanghas. I know when I have a loved one who is sick or dead I ask that they be put on the dedications list for my sangha to dedicate merit. Merit is named Punya.
Another mystery. It depends what you mean by soul. The dzogchen term for a soul is
'clear light'. I don't have enough knowledge to unpack that into something we can analyze. But your questions are good. And that said they have all been asked a thousand times before. Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable about clear light. I get sent facebook updates from a Dzogchen teacher. If you want a link let me know.
I did a charity event a couple of years ago where I live> @vinlyn said:
Thanks @vinlyn!
You've missed my point, even though you've practically restated it. I was talking about...and so were you...actually changing lives. Not just feeling warm and fuzzy. And yes, depending on your job or your associations you can help dozens or hundreds or thousands. I'm not going to quibble over numbers.
Would you like me to give the example of Gene?
Jeffrey, talking about mysteries doesn't answer a thing. It's no different than the Christian who talks about, "God works in mysterious ways". No sense of pursuing that conversation. Thanks.
The word mystery means there are no answers. It is a tautology to say talking about mysteries does not answer them. If the meaning could be pinned down then definitively they would not be mysterious.
10 000 ripples
Do what you can. With enough ripples, no matter how weak, every petal, no matter how fragile, reaches the far shore . . .
Here is one of the ripples I started in someone's garden . . .
That's good advice, @Lobster.
.. what she said
having compassion does not mean that we dont hold people accountable for their actions or that we allow people to treat others badly. I don't have an answer for those like Pol Pot, HItler, Kony but I think that if people developed MORE compassion then chances are that they would speak up earlier or act to help those who are subjected to great suffering from others. with more compassion it is much more difficult to turn away from the suffering of others and the less chance of these types of people rising to power.
How about showing compassion for others who hold different views from ours for starters?
Who says we don't? It's perfectly possible to be compassionate AND argumentative....
A compassion that does not include all beings unconditionally is a flawed compassion! The first step to correcting this flaw is first to recognize that it is a flaw. And then to want to correct the flaw.
Do we cultivate compassion by incorporating it from outside ourselves ?
Or is it always there waiting to be uncovered ?
The term compassion obviously has many meanings and levels. I believe that it is ultimately seeing the state of the world as it truly is, holding all with equanimity, and responding or acting without passion as needed. It has nothing to do with condoning or condemning the destructive actions of others or oneself.
Here is a scenario. A woman steals your purse and gets caught. In her car it is discovered that the whole back seat is brimming with purses. She knows you are a Buddhist, because she stole your purse while visiting your temple services. She says she has hungry mouths to feed and pleads with you to have Buddhist compassion and let her go.
Do you let her go or do you press charges?
Is your response infused with passion?
Do you stay in contact and try to help her afterward, or once she is gone out of your life you just go about your own as before?
Also, what I find interesting is that despite the Buddhist teachings and commentaries on the interdependence and interconnectedness of all things there seems to be some lack of acceptance or rather focus on the fact we are all in some way responsible for the Pol Pots and Hitlers of the world, because our own negative actions are seen as small in comparison and are often thought of as not affecting others or influencing the world we live in.
As Sting sings in a couple of his songs "We can all sink or we all float 'Cause we're all in the same big boat" - One World (Not Three), and "How can you say that you're not responsible? What does it have to do with me?" -Driven to Tears.
If all of us who were capable of helping, we could help millions, even billions every day. Of course one person cannot help everyone. But I can help some people here in my area, and by some projects and donations when possible, people from afar. Others can do the same, and that is where the chain comes in. In the US especially, most people are capable of helping others to some degree, whether with money or time or whatever. But many of them prefer not to dirty their hands. Not long ago, my mom said to me "I don't buy this idea that we have to live in service to others. What if we don't like to do that?" I was literally speechless. I didn't even respond for a couple days, when finally I asked what she thought that meant. She had limited it to having to work in a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter. She is terrified of having to do that kind of work. A lot of people are the same.
Of course, as I also told her, that is not the only way to be of service, to help others. There are opportunities all around if you are open to them. The problem is too many people who are capable, are not open. And then many of us, when we are open, place expectations on our compassion or our offering of help. To me, compassion isn't what you do, it's the attitude with which you do anything. But one cannot expect certain reactions to their helpful attitude or compassion. If you go out and help a group of kids, you don't get to basically bill them by thinking "I was nice to you, so now you must do well in school" or whatever.
One thing I always tell my kids (the younger one doesn't quite have the concept of time yet but he hears it anyhow) is to think back to the past couple years, and think about the kids or people who were good to them or the people who were mean. Which person do you want to be when someone else is thinking back on the past of their life?
Sorry it was supposed to be italicized. I didn't know it would do the scroll thing P:
Yes but if we help even just one person it always makes a difference. We do what we can, and have to accept that sometimes we are helpless, this is what it is to surrender control (or realize that we really don't have much.)
We can't change everything only time can do that.
Thank you for agreeing with me, Padmini42.
^^This^^.
My father was a teacher of music and english, and until he found a permanent position with a small private school near to where we lived, he was peripatetic, and often went to schools where, to be perfectly blunt, he did not 'fit the norm'. He referred to teaching such pupils as: 'Throwing imitation pearls before real swine'. But even in such circumstances and surroundings, when he finally left, two or three pupils got together and bought him a card and leaving gift... and he told me how touched he was by such a small gesture.... he said this, that if even, in all his time at that particular school, he touched just one - just ONE - person, positively, then the whole ordeal had been worth every minute.
And sure enough, one pupil from that school actually kept in touch with him until the time he died.
Compassion should be an important element in human practices. If it is practised every minute and every second, it becomes rather artificial though. And most proabbly too it cannot be practised with everyone without it becoming unfair to some. Would you think it is fair to treat a murderer and his victim in the same compassionate manner?
I'm going to suggest that one can't treat the dead with compassion. But barring that detail - let's say treat the murderer and the victim's family in the same compassionate manner - then yes, absolutely.
True.
Fake it till you make it as the dakini said to Sally . . .
(I'll have what she's having)
Sorry to disappoint, but what applies to orgasm may not apply to compassion.
>
The analogy is deeply flawed (what a surprise....:rolleyes: )
If you 'fake' compassion, you're still being compassionate, no matter what the motive, and the recipient cannot judge whether you're faking it or not. All they know, is that they are receiving compassion, from you.
If you fake orgasm, you not only cheat yourself, you cheat your partner.
What's the point of pretending to enjoy it? That's just being deceitful for a selfish motive.
So for instance a sociopath could fake compassion to help gain the trust of a potential victim and regardless that would still be compassion?
Yikes!?
initially, that's the way it would be taken; on trust. I think we can all pretty much concur that our trust has been broken at some time or another, to some degree or another, by somebody we previously considered trustworthy; that's not to say they were sociopaths, but that we all trusted someone whose intentions appeared compassionate - only to be proven incorrect later.....
No because the intention is not to connect to the real. The motivation is elsewhere. The ideal is to find real compassion for something you care about. A sociopath can only understand their needs. You might say they have no empathy or capacity for compassion outside of themselves. Whether this is a way into a higher form of compassion for them I don't know.
What is the reason for trying to be compassionate? Of being kind in action and intent despite not feeling kindly or loving towards some situations or people? I would suggest it is knowing the ideal, the real exists and trying to implement it. It is like diplomacy or civility. It is false but it leads to real resolution and potential. Being 'real' would just end in tears, wars and dukkha . . .
If compassion and loving kindness are on one end of the spectrum, greed and hate would be on the other end. It takes practice to develop compassion and put it into practice. We like to think of it as something that's natural, we already have it, and we should already be using it. But it's just not that easy sometimes because of our pride, greed, hate, and delusions. On top of having greed, hate, and delusions ourselves, we have to be confronted and deal with it from others. That is why it's difficult sometimes and not as simple as we think.
So it's only fake if you can tell that it's fake? An orgasm, I mean.
I once had a kitten teach me something about compassion. I must first say, I am not a cat person. If I had my druthers, a cat is a pet I would not select. But what happened was I lived in an apartment and found a kitten wandering around, looking lost and abandoned. I thought the cat was not a very good looking cat. It was dirty, scared and I assumed starving. So I picked the cat up and it clung to me with its little claws. I could not locate the owner, so I took the cat in, I fed it, cleaned it up, took care of getting it spayed and medical expenses. It transformed something inside of me. The more time, effort and caring I gave the little cat, the more beautiful it became to me. The cat was always very small, it's colors and markings remained the same, and it was still a cat, but it was beautiful. That taught me a lot about the transformative power of compassion. I believe it applies to other people, and I believe it applies to ourselves. It is impossible to waste time and effort when we are being loving, no matter who it is towards.