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to sit or not to sit that is the question?
gracelee
Veteran
hullo
I have been meditating a lot recently... and my back REALLY hurts... I'm not in good shape.. I have started getting fit and healthy and I'm working on improving my posture(in general) and my core strength because I have been told the reason my back hurts it because it is to weak to support me in my sitting posture 
so my question is... do I continue to meditate for 30mins at a time even though it really hurts during and after or do I wait untill O've built up the strength?? I really want to keep meditating but I don't want to cripple myself in the process...
would be good to hear your views
Grace
0
Comments
I meditate for just a minute or two multiple times a day. There's nothing special at all about meditating for 30 minutes straight (not for normal meditation anyway). If you do short meditations, you can do them standing up... or you could do long/short ones lying down, so long as your breathing isn't obstructed.
There are no hard-and-fast rules about how you must meditate, except to be comfortable and able to breathe freely.
@gracelee I almost forgot, here's a Meditation Posture Workshop, something's bound to help: http://www.wildmind.org/posture
Have you tried different positions? It's possible to meditate in a chair or kneeling.
What @AldrisTorvalds says is true too, you can do many short sessions throughout the day, Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche recommends three minutes meditation sessions 5 or more times a day.
@gracelee -- Here's a relatively straightforward description of Zen meditation. The relevant stuff, perhaps, is the pictures.
You might cut back on the total sitting time, I suppose. Or change posture. Or wait until you become superwoman.
Whatever your choice, I think it's fair to say that meditation is not just some smarmy walk in the park. Physically and mentally, it can cause pain. Pain is a normal part of life, but how it is addressed varies. Meditation provides an opportunity to re-see what cannot be escaped ... i.e., the obvious. Only you can know what is too much and what is not enough. Listen to yourself and then move forward, gently, but firmly.
Best wishes.
I struggle with lower back pain, and sciatica. I would be so uncomfortable meditating for even 15 minutes, my sciatica would flare up, my back would hurt for a long time after, same kind of situation you describe. But because I knew the problems were related to my core strength, I realized I did myself no favors by going from the cushion to the cushy furniture.
I started doing yoga and other core exercises, and I spent MORE time on my cushion rather than less. These days, I'm far more comfortable on my cushion or a yoga ball than on the recliner or the couch. It took some time, but not as much as I thought it would. In my case, I changed my position, and used other props like a blanket under my cushion to raise my hips up a bit more. Certainly try a straight backed chair, a meditation bench, or what works for you. But for me, forcing myself to build the muscles is what helped the most in the end. I spend about 4-5 hours a day on my cushion now. When my meditation and study is done, I use it just for seating. Now when I use the couch or recliner, I find those hurt my back, because of the poor posture I have. I can't even get into a correct, upright posture sitting in either of those places because they just are not designed for that. The are designed for lounging.
Obviously, you have to decide for yourself if the pain you feel is something you can work through, like exercise pain, or whether you are risking actually injuring yourself or damaging tissues and so on. If you want to work on your core, remember it includes more than just your abdominals and back. It includes your upper legs/butt as well and it all has to be in balance for posture to get better. In addition to my sitting posture, I noticed a HUGE decline in the pain I'd get in my back from sleeping in bed, too.
You, me and the Buddha too . . . that scrawny misfit PBUH nearly died from spiritual anorexia.
So . . . walking meditation, prostrations and metta before and after sitting would be my recommendation.
Yoga and Qi Ong/Tai Chi will get your spine, muscles and meditation moving.
Oh and mindful eating meditation . . .
This has been discussed recently in a thread proposed by @Yorkshireman, who also couldn't meditate in the sitting position for medical reasons.
I have practised yoga for many years, and yoga sessions are always finished by a long relaxation in the corpse asana (lying down). Some teachers like to make a meditation practice of it.
In fact, yoga was historically a preparation to meditation, because the idea was to loosen up your body in such a way that it would not represent an obstacle for the meditation session. You could use this posture to do an informal session before getting up every day, for example, or to unwind in the evening.
Anyway, I think the conclusion in that thread by most experienced meditators was that sitting is still the most recommended position for meditation. But you can include as many variations as you deem possible to find the position that works best for you as suggested by @genkaku and @karasti.
One of the ladies in our centre suffers from back problems, so she's offered a sofa, for example.
I find virtually any everyday situation where you find yourself waiting can become an excuse for a short meditation session: riding the bus, waiting at the doctor's, rebooting the computer...
Just make sure you're comfortable, of course...
Yes, continue meditating but try to find a posture that is basically comfortable - experiment with chairs etc.
You could also try meditating lying down.
sit
every day
frequency is more important then duration
Hi @gracelee - hope you are well?
Have you tried sitting in a chair? I tried for ages sitting on a cushion or stool but my legs couldn't handle it (years of running on roads has wrecked them!).
In the end I just gave up and now sit in a chair. I can still meditate for an hour in comfort and don't think it's any less beneficial than being on the floor.
Take care!
@ gracelee
Meditation when, where and however you can.
Every moment offers a potentially new you with a choice to continue carrying the last moments identity or not.
When physical pain arises in meditation, remember it is just the bodies security system sending warning signals that something needs your attention. It is up to you at that moment to evaluate whether that pain message requires a response or not.
If you decide to continue sitting and the pain becomes too distracting to your meditation, then switch to one of the alternative positions already mentioned.
One of the most common hindrances for a meditator to let go of is the identifying of their meditation to a particular state or with a maintained body posture.
Exactly so.
Can you stand or walk without pain? Standing with hands in prayer posture is used for meditation in some yoga and with hands relaxed by side in tai chi. Chair meditation is OK. Too many people think meditation is a form of sado masochism - 'no pain, no gain'.
In fact no pain is the gain.
That is formal meditation but what about formal practice whilst active? Perhaps eating or cleaning? Doing things at half speed meditavely would be very beneficial.
It's good to be regular...
Thanks very much for your advice, I already sit on a chair but I will now combine that with lying down (especially if I can't sleep at night), walking and standing meditation. I suppose I felt that it was important to sit for long periods but until I build my strength up, I will sit for 10- 20 mins every day.
Thanks again, I appreciate the support.
Everyone gets back pain, especially when they start sitting for longer periods. The body just isn't accustomed to that posture.
It will get better, but in the meantime don't push it. A chair is your best alternative.
Short bursts may be better than 'marathon' sessions... It depends on why you are meditating in the first place. Would you care to share that reason? It might add perspective. Also if you've been exercising a lot the muscles may be a little too much strained to sit for 30 minutes. Who sits in a meditation posture all the time - not me!
I want to meditate to develop my ability to be present in my daily life, I have anxiety and addiction issues, mediation has been helping with both... I tried sitting through the pain but it carries on after I have sit and I end up with a bad back constantly.. I have been seeing a physio who told me that my problems are probably due to my back being to weak to support me... she told me to strengthen it by doing yoga and weight lifting...
Sounds like your physio has some good methods. For mindfulness you could start counting 1...in breath 2....outbreath. So during the day when you are really lost in your head you might pause and do a 'one two'.
There is a meditation I was taught called the one breath:
First breath in and out naturally. Breath in and then on the outbreath close your eyes. Breath in and then note the hinge point where in breath changes to outbreath. It totally switches directions. When the outbreath is over then open eyes and meditatively return to your surroundings. You may repeat.
Note the above one breath was not a teaching of my guru. It was an internet chat group leaders teaching. He had practiced a long time.
No it appears as if 'the physio.' has not fully assessed whether @gracelee has a physical problem or whether this is just due to increased effort of practice (note: she has prescribed yoga! The suggestion of weight-lifting suggests ignorance of any possible underlying physical problem and risks possible further damage and or pain...
Have you gone from zero to hero (i.e. started meditating for 30 minutes everyday immediately), or eased yourself into it listening to the aches and pains early?
Physio=physiotherapist=physical therapist, usually. They are who you see when you have an injury or a surgery that need rehab. So I would think they would have done a proper assessment. Usually they will give the person specific exercises to do though, not just tell them "do weight lifting" with no guidance as to what to do, and how to do it.
Unfortunately, that is the ideal @karasti, I know this is not always the case. It's like asking a general physician for advice on physical exercises - they know what is right for certain individuals, but not all... and vice versa
I know, I was just saying, 2 years ago, I didn't know what a physio was, in the US they aren't called that, so when I was researching my knee problem, I was so confused, LOL. I was just clarifying for those who might not know the term. I had an awesome physical therapist, thank goodness.
I gave up seeking fitness advice from anyone though, I read up on anatomy, and figured it out myself using my body as my guide. I just got too many conflicting answers from everyone. But taking up weight training for the back or even the overall core is certainly best taken up with someone trained in such matters, at least to start with. It's so easy to end up unbalanced and injured, and much worse off than one started.
If @gracelee's physio regularly neglects to do proper assessments and sends clients on their way, I'm sure they would no longer have their license. People who see private physios are pretty serious about their bodies and the money they are paying!
Yoga and weight-lifting are extremely broad categories of exercise that could encompass anything from isometric contractions to Olympic powerlifting. I'm sure @gracelee is simply giving us the barebones info to update us in this thread, not expecting anyone to actually ask for the specifics of her physio's treatment.
Considering that it sounds like @gracelee's issue is chronic and not acute (e.g. she hasn't just recently strained any muscles in her back), just waiting out the pain isn't necessarily going to help much.
Furthermore, while a physio may prescribe to a client stretching and strengthening exercises to do at home, during a visit to the physio clinic, they usually will do a bunch of modalities (e.g. Ultrasound, massage, TENS) to supplement the exercise and relieve pain.
tl;dr @anataman, I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that @gracelee's physio is a quack.
Now back on topic...
@gracelee - Have you tried using a lumbar support cushion on your meditation chair?
I didn't call the physio. a quack, I merely suggested that they may have missed what was really going on as they are just as human as everyone else. @gracelee can put us right as to that if they wish.
As you rightly pointed out @Invincible_summer there is not always enough information in a posted comment to properly evaluate what was meant. I certainly had no intention of questioning someone who I have never met. I shall try and be clearer next time I make such a comment.
Improving your health, doing exercise, and meditating will do wonders for you. Hope your physio has you on some good exercises. Stay with it!