Curious about Dzogchen? I like the vibe of this..
Jeffrey
Veteran
Not that I study Dzogchen, but the teacher (beloved and below) is in that tradition. I like the vibe...
Dzogchen Practice in Everyday Life
by HH Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche (maybe Trungpa, the FB site owner is not sure.. it's from a 10 year old e-mail)
The everyday practice of dzogchen is simply to
develop a complete carefree acceptance, an
openness to all situations without limit.We should realise openness as the playground of
our emotions and relate to people without
artificiality, manipulation or strategy.We should experience everything totally, never
withdrawing into ourselves as a marmot hides in
its hole. This practice releases tremendous
energy which is usually constricted by the
process of maintaining fixed reference points.
Referentiality is the process by which we retreat
from the direct experience of everyday life.Being present in the moment may initially trigger
fear. But by welcoming the sensation of fear with
complete openness, we cut through the barriers
created by habitual emotional patterns.When we engage in the practice of discovering
space, we should develop the feeling of opening
ourselves out completely to the entire universe.
We should open ourselves with absolute simplicity
and nakedness of mind. This is the powerful and
ordinary practice of dropping the mask of
self-protection.We shouldn't make a division in our meditation
between perception and field of perception. We
shouldn't become like a cat watching a mouse. We
should realise that the purpose of meditation is
not to go "deeply into ourselves" or withdraw
from the world. Practice should be free and
non-conceptual, unconstrained by introspection
and concentration.Vast unoriginated self-luminous wisdom space is
the ground of being - the beginning and the end
of confusion. The presence of awareness in the
primordial state has no bias toward enlightenment
or on-enlightenment. This ground of being which
is known as pure or original mind is the source
from which all phenomena arise. It is known as
the great mother, as the womb of potentiality in
which all things arise and dissolve in natural
self-perfectedness and absolute spontaneity.All aspects of phenomena are completely clear and
lucid. The whole universe is open and
unobstructed - everything is mutually
interpenetrating.Seeing all things as naked, clear and free from
obscurations, there is nothing to attain or
realise. The nature of phenomena appears
naturally and is naturally present in
time-transcending awareness. Everything is
naturally perfect just as it is. All phenomena
appear in their uniqueness as part of the
continually changing pattern. These patterns are
vibrant with meaning and significance at every
moment; yet there is no significance to attach to
such meanings beyond the moment in which they
present themselves.This is the dance of the five elements in which
matter is a symbol of energy and energy a symbol
of emptiness. We are a symbol of our own
enlightenment. With no effort or practice
whatsoever, liberation or enlightenment is
already here.The everyday practice of dzogchen is just
everyday life itself. Since the undeveloped state
does not exist, there is no need to behave in any
special way or attempt to attain anything above
and beyond what you actually are. There should be
no feeling of striving to reach some "amazing
goal" or "advanced state."To strive for such a state is a neurosis which
only conditions us and serves to obstruct the
free flow of Mind. We should also avoid thinking
of ourselves as worthless persons - we are
naturally free and unconditioned. We are
intrinsically enlightened and lack nothing.When engaging in meditation practice, we should
feel it to be as natural as eating, breathing and
defecating. It should not become a specialised or
formal event, bloated with seriousness and
solemnity. We should realise that meditation
transcends effort, practice, aims, goals and the
duality of liberation and non-liberation.
Meditation is always ideal; there is no need to
correct anything. Since everything that arises is
simply the play of mind as such, there is no
unsatisfactory meditation and no need to judge
thoughts as good or bad.Therefore we should simply sit. Simply stay in
your own place, in your own condition just as it
is. Forgetting self-conscious feelings, we do not
have to think "I am meditating." Our practice
should be without effort, without strain, without
attempts to control or force and without trying
to become "peaceful."If we find that we are disturbing ourselves in
any of these ways, we stop meditating and simply
rest or relax for a while. Then we resume our
meditation. If we have "interesting experiences"
either during or after meditation, we should
avoid making anything special of them. To spend
time thinking about experiences is simply a
distraction and an attempt to become unnatural.
These experiences are simply signs of practice
and should be regarded as transient events. We
should not attempt to re-experience them because
to do so only serves to distort the natural
spontaneity of mind.All phenomena are completely new and fresh,
absolutely unique and entirely free from all
concepts of past, present and future. They are
experienced in timelessness.The continual stream of new discovery, revelation
and inspiration which arises at every moment is
the manifestation of our clarity. We should learn
to see everyday life as mandala - the luminous
fringes of experience which radiate spontaneously
from the empty nature of our being. The aspects
of our mandala are the day-to-day objects of our
life experience moving in the dance or play of
the universe. By this symbolism the inner teacher
reveals the profound and ultimate significance of
being. Therefore we should be natural and
spontaneous, accepting and learning from
everything. This enables us to see the ironic and
amusing side of events that usually irritate us.In meditation we can see through the illusion of
past, present and future - our experience becomes
the continuity of nowness. The past is only an
unreliable memory held in the present. The future
is only a projection of our present conceptions.
The present itself vanishes as soon as we try to
grasp it. So why bother with attempting to
establish an illusion of solid ground?We should free ourselves from our past memories
and preconceptions of meditation. Each moment of
meditation is completely unique and full of
potentiality. In such moments, we will be
incapable of judging our meditation in terms of
past experience, dry theory or hollow rhetoric.Simply plunging directly into meditation in the
moment now, with our whole being, free from
hesitation, boredom or excitement, is
enlightenment.
Comments
Forgive my ignorance isn't this Buddhism?
I do love this @Jeffrey , very very insightful. This is a gorgeous summary of a beautiful way of life. Wow.
@Earthninja, love your forum name, Dzogchen is a school of Buddhism
A few or so people have talked about Dzogchen on New Buddist so I thought it would be interesting to post something from that school.
I was actually checking about a book about Dzogchen earlier today. It does seem very compelling. I would love to hear anything else you learn about it
I am fairly sure its not Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche @Jeffrey.
I am not sure that its HH Dilgo Khyentse either. I think it might be Dudjom Rinpoche.
Obviously the author is less important than the content however.
Yes this is very wonderous!
I love the portion where the author mentions that meditation should be as natural in our life as eating, drinking, breathing, defecating. Holistic and Whole-istique.
And here comes Mr Party Pooper...
Its essential to realise that the 'naturalness' of Dzogchen is only available to those who have been ' artificially ' empowered by a bone fide Dzogchen teacher...
Until then its just ideas about Dzogchen.
www.vajracakra.com
Where is your joy, @Citta...?
Look at it this way. It is like someone finding a restaurant in Town that serves almost everything we adore eating and drinking. We look at the menu and delight in our discovery, but yes, we have to eat a meal there to truly appreciate the cuisine, the excellence, the flavour.
But at least the restaurant is now located....
Can't you be happy, instead of saying.
"Huh, yeah, right... but you have to book, then wait to be served, then actually eat the food...."
OK ..I'll be happy.
Hooray ! Dzogchen ! Yay ! Its a THING !
Been there, done that....:p
But seriously, it's all ideas without practice and connection, regardless of tradition.
Of course.
My only reason for posting was to point out that it takes great effort to be 'natural', so much needs to be unlearned.
Whatever the tradition.
There are several conferences scheduled in Switzerland by the 7th Dzogchen Rinpoche Jigme Losel Wangpo (organized by Shenpen Suisse).
I'm thinking of attending one. Could somebody please tell me what to expect?
http://www.shenpensuisse.org/veranstaltungen
^^^Mr Cushinion says, 'Expect the Unexpected'
I am sure he gets all his Dharma from TV reruns of 'Kung Fu'
Mos Def Dilgo Khyentse.
Thanx
I have quoted parts from it on this site before.
I see it as as a Zen/Tibetan version of the Prajna Paramita as a meditation manual..
You can probably expect to be guided to your Original Mind @dharmamom...the precise way that this will happen is difficult to predict. I don't know Dzogchen Rinpoche , ( although I have met his brother. who is Sogyal Rinpoche ) and all the teachers have their own ' personality display '
Let us know how it goes ?
Sure. If it's anything like @Jeffrey's programme, it should be quite something.
Namaste,
I've read about Dzogchen practises as written by Lama Surya Das in his books. I listen to his podcasts too and they are very uplifting.
Much metta,
Raven
"Dzogchen is extremely simple, but not easy"
Khenpo Ngaga
I'm very excited! This evening I'm finally attending an initiation by the 7th Dzogchen Rinpoche Jigme Losel Wangpo. My first contact with Dzogchen.
http://www.shenpensuisse.org/veranstaltungen
Lama Surya Das explains that the Dzogchen view is often taught via pith instructions, which are applicable both as the base for meditation practice, but also integrable into daily life. Pith instructions are something like this:
*Just as it is
*Let go and let be
*Seeing through, being through
*What we seek, we are
*Not too tight or too loose
*Nowness / immediacy
*We are all Buddhas; we only have to recognize that fact
*Nothing to do and nowhere to go
*Seeing; recognizing; penetrating; releasing
*Pure vision: see the Buddha in everyone and everything
"When I dissolve into that vast expanse -empty and clear- without end, without limits- There is no difference between mind and sky"
Lama Shabkar
Dharma is exciting? Who would have guessed . . . (quiet Cushion, enough from you already). Remember Buddhas are open and kind. Everything will be fine. How wonderful.
@lobster: you're sooo mean, you'll be reborn as a hungry ghost cushion ..
..
So his Eminence's command of the English is not good. I'd like to see you trying to peddle your cushion catalogue in Lhasa...
I'll make sure to infuse my veins with extra coffeine just in case, but I'm excited anyway.
^^^ have a great time. Mr Cushion will be there. :clap: .
So here I am, back from the meeting with his Eminence, the 7th Dzogchen Rinpoche, Jigme Losel Wango.
I have no time now to develop much because my son has psychomotor therapy and I have to rush out.
I was privy to a private audience with him, too, at the end of the conference.
He's a very affable person, full of wisdom and simplicity. I really liked what I saw and heard, and like his Eminence a lot.
The Dzogchen group here in Basel are all very nice, a composite of Brits and Swiss.
They're ready to welcome me to the group if I decided to join in and I think chances are very high that I will.
@Citta: do you think it you could be possible for you to give a brief outline of Dzogchen. The general things, that anyone can learn. Of course, I'm already full on into learning as much as I can.
Does Dzogchen have different lineages too, since you have never actually met his Eminence? Is there any controversy I should be aware about, as was the case with NKT, Diamond Way or Rigpa?
Several lineages @dharmamom. There is a particular affinity betwen Dzogchen and the Nyingma school, although Dzogchen is not restricted to any one school..
In the largest school, the Karma Kagyu, it is also known as Mahamudra or Maha-ati
The largest group is the Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu..which is found in many countries.
I am not aware of any huge scandals, although human nature being what it is there are groups who claim that ' their ' Dzogchen is best...
I would be cautious about any western teacher who claims to be teaching Dzogchen..there are a couple of exceptions to this..Lama Surya Das is one, and the Aro Gter is another.
As a general note of caution, just as you would not ( I suspect ) go to a self taught surgeon to have your appendix removed or a self taught dentist to have a molar drilled I would recommend staying away from any teacher or advice unless you know it is coming from a recognised lineage.
( Dzogchen Rinpoche comes from an impeccable lineage. )
I will post a short summary of some points of Dzogchen when I have had a think about ( and asked about ) what is kosher to talk about on a public forum.
_/_
An aside comment on the kosher.
The neighbourhood where I grew up in Buenos Aires is Jewish, and boasts what seems to be the only kosher Mc Donald's, outside Israel.
Ice-cream shops all over Argentina offer kosher alternatives.
Have not seen that here in Europe...
If you go to the East End of London or to Golder's Green in north London you will @dharmamom.
(snip)
Its essential to realise that the 'naturalness' of Dzogchen is only available to those who have been ' artificially ' empowered by a bone fide Dzogchen teacher...
(endsnip)
I get so tired of the "gotta have a guru" argument.
It does not take much inspection to realize
that it is simply not true.
Think about it...
If it were impossible to 'get it'
without being given it by someone else who 'got it' before you...
then nobody would have ever 'gotten it'.
In the history of time, whoever 'got it' first
did not have a guru.
PS: I don't know how to make the quote box thing.
On the subject of Dzogchen @radagast you will find no teacher and no school who would agree with you .
Check it out.
The first to ' get it ' in our era of the world was Buddha Vajrasattva. Who received it from Samantabhadra Buddha.
Who was a self illuminated Buddha.
No one is forcing anyone to embrace Dzogchen. But for those that do there is no alternative to the 'Pointing Out ' instructions of a Dzogchen teacher.
Dzogchen students don't just make this stuff up to annoy people...lol.
@radagast
My sympathies.
The ego/identity creates many obstacles in any meditation practice. A teacher is just someone who has walked the path far enough ahead of the student to point out and offer ways to circumvent the potholes that the teacher has already navigated beyond.
Most Buddhist Schools who make claims of holding some version of the light, the truth or the way, look brainwashed when claiming that only through their "guidance" can this path be traversed. I plunk it into the same reasoning's that folks use for saying unless someone pays something for a retreat, they won't value it as much.
Just another version of "using greed positively" that offers short term gains for those fearing that without making a practice seem special that many potential practitioners wouldn't value it as much as they should..
On the other hand keeping the purity of teachings is a valid reason, but of course one should not trumpet that they are the only way. But it's impossible to dictate that someone cannot feel that their teachings are the most powerful. I don't see how it can be said that any others do not lead to liberation because you can only wear your own shoes and not another persons thus how can you know how liberated they are? Meanwhile, of course, I have heard NB members poo poo teachers because they don't like the way they speak such as Gangaji because she makes pauses..
Just to be clear Dzogchen does not say that The Path can only be traversed through Dzogchen
It does say that Dzogchen is a closed system. So Dzogchen as a path can only be entered on its own terms.
If that does not appeal then there are lots of schools which offer an open system..and Dzogchen students are fine with that.
I am not sure why this would be seen as an issue for those to whom Dzogchen does not appeal anyway...?
These things find their own level.
A very wise and considered statement of fact @Citta.
I only know of Dzogchen through the same writings that the OP started this thread with.
I have had the same copy for some time and found it to be a perfect reflection of my understanding of Zen meditation but I do not confuse the writings though for the meditation.
That someone says that any experience of it is automatically relegated to the realm of ideas as opposed to a "naturalness" offered by an empowerment, seems to be the antithesis of those writings.
@radagast, if you are of a Mahayana school, of which there are as many varieties as there are tomatoes, red yellow and green (possibly blue and purple), you will know that many of them assert that without the liberation of all other beings, your liberation cannot occur by your own device and is pointless, and that is why Theravadans are held in humorous disdain by Mahayana traditions.
Saying all that the above statement is utterly meaningless as you can't practise to become something that you are already!
A teacher is only a teacher when you accept you are just a student. However, the teacher may hold you in higher regard, if only you could have their perspective.
Sorry about that. But Dilgo Khyentse was a very traditional teacher.
For him empowerment ( wang ) was axiomatic.
Dont take my word for that. Check out his other writings. Cross -refer to the teachings of other Dzogchen teachers.
This is not some eccentric personal interpretation of mine.
It is the default Vajrayana/Dzogchen position.
I suggest instead of personal affront and projection of 'egoic ' motivation it might be an idea to see that although some aspects of teachings might appeal , other aspects of those teachings render them useless for some people..
And that this is quite OK.
No one is trying to recruit people to Dzogchen.
I responded to dharmamom's request for info.
I have simply repeated what all Dzogchen students are taught.
Coming Saturday, his Eminence is giving an Empowerment and trasmission in the other end of Switzerland.
@Citta, you mentioned personal transmission is very important.
Problem is my son has his last football match, we have people invited for dinner, and hubby is having a meltdown over my last-minute decision to go.
Since his Eminence comes here only once a year and I can't talk my hubby into going to a seven-day retreat, do you think this event Saturday is important enough to be present? In German, it is something like a Long life initiation and teaching (Könchog Chidü). It lasts from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.
I am going to cop-out @dharmamom. Only you can answer that.
@Citta: I am attending the empowerment on Saturday. Was the only possible answer.
Well I'm pleased for you...sadhu ! ( thats a traditional Buddhist way of saying well done ).
Go.
Könchog Chidü is an excellent practice.
Hope this is of interest
.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/advanced/dzogchen/meditation/fundamentals_dzogchen_meditation/fund_dzogchen_meditation_02.html
@lobster, is that a rangtongpa or Gelug site way of teaching? I try not to confuse myself by mixing rangtong with what my teacher is teaching us which is shentong.
Indeed.
For the confused:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shentong
. . . and for those belonging to the 'yingtong' tradition for a serious answer to a serious question:
Hope that clarifies . . . :bowdown: .
A note of caution..Berzin is an academic who teaches about Dzogchen..he is not a Dzogchen teacher.
Chogyal Namkhai Norbu who is both an academic and a Dzogchen master takes issue with some aspects of Berzin's summation.
@Jeffrey if you think that the Rangtong/Shentong issue has mileage a separate thread might be in order.
@Citta no I don't want to talk about Rangtong/Shentong I just noticed that Berzin is heavily associated with HHDL who is of the Gelug school. As you know there is a little bit of a thing between Gelug and my teacher's school (Kagyu). Her husband teaches in the Nyingma tradition and I'm not sure how Gelug and Nyingma are with one and other. But yeah I think it is confusing to read multiple approaches.
What thing is that? I've been practicing in the Kagyu lineage for over 10 years and I've never heard of any "thing" with the Gelug.
@Chaz they disagree on the meaning of the dharma. I know that's just a wee minor thing hehe.
@Chaz it's hard to in a scholarly fashion chart out the differences because most of the learning going on is Upadesha which as you know means 'pointing out instructions' of the guru. It can be like the zen monk who became enlightened when he kicked a rock. That upadesha might be like the rock. But then someone else can't see how he got enlightened and say "oh i get it... I just have to kick that rock....where is that rock anyway?"
differing on the "meaning" of dharma is a "wee minor thing"?
I don't think so.
There are differences to be sure - a long list of them - but does this mean there's some sort of "thing" between them? No.
If there are "things" they lie within the lineages themselves. The schism between main stream Gelugpas and Shugden practitions is one. The Kagyu divide between the supporters to the two different Karmapas is another.
There is no real divide between the Gelug and the Kagyu. They are different lineages of practice and study, but even a cursory examination will show both lineages teach the same thing.
No they have a different interpretation of shunyata. Rangtong and Shentong.
You are right that it is WAY less a big deal than Shugden and Gelug. Both parties respect each other. But say a Shentongpa goes and gives a dharma talk to a Rangtongpa sangha as a guest. It would be like having a Catholic give a talk. It can happen, but that would be more tense than a Catholic giving a sermon at a Catholic congregation as a guest.