What is the most efficient way (in your opinion) of cultivating metta?
ninjbyte
Explorer
I do not feel compassion. Though detachment comes easier to me now, I realize I do not feel remotely any sense of compassion towards people around me. I'm not even sure what I feel towards myself can be defined as compassion. I kind of (distantly) get the teachings on interconnectedness, but I don't see it. I find myself at odds with the usual description in the suttas, especially the Karaniya Metta. I don't see life as particularly valuable, and I don't see how we're all connected.
Since the Buddha ascribes importance to metta, and I'm starting to trust him a lot more, I'm wondering if this might be very important at this point. Especially also since Daniel considers it the basis of morality and intentional action (which I think is especially important to consider since I find myself wondering if there's anything worth to do, from the reason above). The thing is, I've been searching for instructions for the past day, and there are differing views:
-Loving-kindness (Sharon Salzberg): Metta in this view means "loving-kindness", and one is supposed to cultivate feelings of loving-kindness as a practice, in expanding circles. I'm certain you know what I'm talking about. I feel disinclined to this approach, but it may be personal preference talking. I'd like to hear your opinions.
-Good will (Bhikkhu Thanissaro): In the past three years, Thanissaro has slightly changed his translationof metta as "good-will", involving less emotional content and more cognitive intent. There's his free talk about it if someone's interested.
-Other traditions (Vajrayana, Tibetan): I'd prefer to rule these out because I prefer to stick with one raft of teachings, in this case Theravada. Though other traditions have their known proponents (Pema Chodron and her teachers), I want to stick with one set of teachings, if for nothing else then because I think I remember the Buddha also advising not changing views often.
-Suttas only (Bhante V): I've only recently been introduced to this point of view, and know nothing about it yet. I've seen that here he hasn't been very appreciated because of his attitude towards traditional teachings, but I'd like to know what helped you out most.
There may be even others I'm not aware of.
I'd like to find an explanation and practice of metta that shows me better how interconnected we are and why is it valuable to help others. For instance, a good point Thanissaro makes in his talk is that lovingkindness isn't always the most skillful feeling to have related to others. We may at most render conditions of others more conducive to studying the dharma, but we cannot make them happy.
Could you please help me out?
Comments
In general, I also want to see more clearly: what is the Right Intention for any kind of action? If we cannot help people directly to reach happiness, what is the point of action?
Interesting. Isn't there anyone in your life you care about? Nobody who, if you find out they died, you would be sad and miss them? No family or friends that you worry about once in a while? Not even a pet dog or cat or goldfish?
I suppose it's possible that someone can be totally blocked from feeling compassion for anyone, anywhere, but the term for those people is "sociopath" and they have an illness of the mind. I suspect you might not be giving yourself credit for the compassion you do feel.
It is more like this: I can't see anything I can do for any of them that would help them gain permanent happiness.
My (hopefully) skillful actions may arouse temporary happiness in them, or in rarer cases temporary unhappiness. In any case, these states would be temporary, and would therefore pass rendering them meaningless. Only nibbana is permanent. I can at most cause helpful conditions for people to arise, but I can accomplish nothing of value with my own effort.
Besides, why should I do something in order to gain a result in the future? I am content with what is. It is the leaning into the future that generates suffering.
I feel very tempted to just sit down and do nothing. And I don't know if that is a good thing.
Not to suggest you switch rafts, but you may find more answers in the Mahayana teachings.
If you want to get somewhere with metta then less intellectualizing and more practice.. practice... practice...practice... practice. Doing a complex comparative study of all the types of metta will not get you anywhere, you have to DO metta and see what works for you and what does not.
Do you think that you start off with metta and if you don't feel some sort of magical amazing feelings about how you are all one with all beings right away then you are doing it wrong? hardly! lol. It takes a lot of practice just like any other form of meditation.
We are all connected simply because we are all alive and we all have to suffer, get sick, grow old, and die, that is about as simple and straight forward a truth as your ever going to get.... as I, so them. No need for complex "we are all one" type stuff when you can see the reality of how we are connected right now as you live and breathe.
That ain't a plan. It is a waste. You knows it.
First of all you can be a little kinder to your lack of an attribute. Then you can be kinder. Perhaps do voluntary work or smile and be more civil (I am sure you are). :wave: .
It is precisely that I do not want to do. I see that I'm out of lines with traditional teachings, or I think I see it at least. But I want to stick with these. There must be a reason for not switching rafts.
It might be as you say. But right now I find it difficult to find the right motivation for any kind of action. If I cannot contribute to the direct realization of those around me... why move at all? And why do something that doesn't help in doing so?
I don't know should I do it. Is it the right thing to do? What is the right reason to practice? To suffer less. But I can only help myself from not suffering. If I cannot help others directly, why practice?
There isn't a particular emotive feeling that is compassion. It is just wanting someone to be free from harm. You could have compassion for yourself.
Traditionally there are 3 things you can do. Give material things, give fearlessness, and give dharma teachings.
The thing is that I don't feel any motivation in doing such a thing... I don't see anything as worthwhile. I find myself preferring not to move an inch, which is why I think practice of metta could help.
Cultivate a wish to do metta even if you are not ready to do it now. There is time.
Then don't do anything. If you don't see anythong worthwhile on cultivating compassion, then don't bother. You can still practice and stay on the path. Stop beating yourself and others up over things you seem to be unwilling or unable to address. Its not that big a deal, really. There's no rule saying you must have compassion.
Develop a strong practice. Thats enough. Compassion will arise or it won't.
It sounds like Theravada is for you. You feel no compassion or empathy for the suffering of others, and you just want to deal with your own duhkha for your own sake, there is nothing wrong with that...
I guess that could be one approach to it...
And I guess this would be the second extreme to take it. Perhaps I'll try both and see what works best.
As much as I'd like to believe this, I don't believe that true theravada practice is about this. I've read my share of mahayana vs theravada arguments... In each theravada seemed to encompass mahayana teachings pretty well.
Of course @ninjbyte, but sometimes it's about style, and sometimes you might want to put on a display, like a peacock, or wear some make-up before going out there and strutting your stuff. It's all down to what you view as right, and that's alright in my opinion.
Mettha
... \ lol / ...
do that. Regardless of your motivation, practice is the most important thing to do.
Niether are an "extreme".
Wow, sounds like you've got it all figured out. Go for it!
If you want hands on experience I recommend tonglen and the book Training the Mind by Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche.
Just follow the precepts. Metta will eventually find its way towards you. The precepts will compliment your feeling of non-action because it does play a role in them.
Refraining from taking life requires the 'non-action' in kiling.
Refraining from petty theft requires the 'non-action' in stealing.
Refraining from illicit sex requires the 'non-action' in engaging in that type of sex.
Refraining from abusive speech requires the 'non-action' in abusing speech.
Refraining from drugs and alcohol requires the 'non-action' in using drugs and alcohol.
If you believe in non-action, and you have not broken a precept, and you meditate regularly, metta will find you. You're already practicing it before you even know it.
Yeah, I guess I should be a little less uptight about practice and borders and techniques. I've started reading things by Bhante V... it seems like I really should relax a little more.
Thank you
but I don't really think I have it all figured out, I just think that theravada aren't the solitary misanthropic monks I used to think they were.
Thank you for your proposal, but I don't want to change rafts at this point... though I have read most of the books by Rinpoche and Pema, I think and feel that Theravada teachings are more right for me.
I'd like to believe that metta will find me, perhaps it will. For now, though, I feel utterly detached, with only curiosity to guide me. I feel nothing close to the description in the Karaniya Metta sutta. It is this that continues to urge me to keep looking.
Cool. The 'map' is there to guide you when you are ready. I do think your curiosity will guide you. The Karaniya sutra is just a map. If you are not right for it that is ok. As they say "you needn't eat the map". I think a balance between diligence and trying to overly push is in order.
@ninjbyte detach yourself from the bind of being: feeling detached; and start living for yourself.
A sutra (literally a thread), is just a way of writing something down in a way that is memorisable. Sometimes people find they become bounded by the words they use. Others are liberated by the words they receive and use for their own ends.
Bind: to feel attached
Detach: leave or separate oneself from
Liberation: the act of setting someone free from ...
Boundary: a limit of a subject or sphere of activity
Perhaps you will get at what I am getting at here...
there are five faculties (pancha-indriya) to be developed
the five faculties are saddha-faith, viriya-effort, sati-mindfulness, samadhi-concentration, panna-wisdom
if people around us have not developed them, their behavior is not up to our expectation, so we can not have compassion for them
but the fault is not with them
fault is with us because we haven't developed five faculties within us, so we have no compassion for others
You already have it. Meta/compassion/bodhichitta isn't something "out there", external, separate from you. You have Buddha Nature, pure since beginningless time, absolute bodhischitta. You need nothing save to cultivate it. That's why @Jeffrey recommended lojong/tonglen practice. It's intention is to cultivate the compassion you feel lacking.
I'm someone who hasn't felt much love or affection during my life. I'd try to do metta or tonglen practices but I'd get no kind of feeling from them to meditate upon, it was like trying to squeeze water out of a rock.
A couple years ago I decided to make love and compassion a large portion of my daily practice regardless of the results. Now, a couple years in I am able to generate love and compassion to some extent.
What helped motivate me to develop these attitudes was the selfish notion that a sense of warmth and kindness was a happier emotional state for my own self and now from my experience I'd say that that is the case.
The type of practice that I found the most helpful was in the visualizations when imagining others I'd think of people that had the same types of suffering that I myself experience and generate love and compassion for them. It is much easier for my to appreciate their pain when I can more easily relate to it.
In regards to interconnection you can reflect on how in a society we all depend on one another to deliver services and products. Like even though you do your share and pay your taxes, someone else paves the roads or even though you pay for your food it is other people who grow and deliver it to the stores. If you had to do all these things for yourself, like even make your own tools and find your own raw materials you'd never be able to survive.
Excellent advice from @namarupa and experiential advice from @person. As we change through age, maturity, practice, life experiences, falling in love, hating the emotionless/emotive OD etc the ability for understanding if compassion alludes you, may well arise. Be hopeful. It is the kind thing to do . . .
Tried metta bhavna or a mantra or dharani associated with metta?
You want to say that I'm getting too attached to the words of the sutta?
I know it must be there, I just needed a way to cultivate it. Lojong/tonglen seems too Tibetan for me. I read up on Bhante V and I guess I'm going to stick to that for a longer time and see if it works.
I also think this should be my primary motivation right now... also because I can't find in myself any other type.
As I said, mantras and dharanis weren't in the Majjhima Nikaya, so I guess I don't want to change rafts...
However, I think I have reached a decision. I'll practice as Bhante V says, for a month lets say, and then see what effects it has on me
Thank you all for your advice!
I think for most of us, compassion is a learned behavior. Have you ever had someone hurt you? And if so, how did it make you feel? Bad, right? And so, compassion is simply understanding that all people feel this way. Nobody wants to be hurt, everyone wants to have people be kind to them, etc. Remember how you feel when people hurt you and don't do that to other people as a result. Through our own feelings, we can learn understanding of others.
Also remember that you never know when something so small and insignificant as a few kind words can actually make a difference to someone. There are people out there, right now, teetering on the brink of a full collapse or contemplating suicide. You may meet these people every day and never know it. You cannot judge how big or small your effect on these people can be.
To be honest I don't think there is.
Meditating in a compassionate feeling towards all creatures helps, and also to translate it into the way we look at othber beings, and into our attitudes and actions.
@ninjbyte . Actually metta meditation doesn't address what you need. You should do karuna (compassion) meditation. It is also a Brahmavira and is definitely part of the Theravada. In karuna you think of all your loved ones including yourself and think of all the hard times they have had. Hold the pain of that in your heart. Then do it for those you are neutral to and those who are enemies. There is no such thing as success or failure in that method. Just punch in the clock and do a 5 or 10 minute session.
I missed this before. Regardless of which form you're currently practicing, it sounds a lot like zen sickness to me. Zen sickness is when you create a nihilistic perspective on life out of too much emphasis on the concept of "emptiness" or sometimes "impermanence." Kind of an ennui because, "What's the point? Nothing lasts forever...Nothing really exists..."
I think you need to get off the cushion and get some real life experience. See some real suffering from someone else. Maybe doing some volunteer work could kickstart your compassion and help you drop the "pointless" perspective.
I also would like to mention that in regards to small actions... When we look back on life, we often only remember the big events and tend to gloss over all of the minor ones that led to them. Although I am no longer practicing Nichiren Buddhism, the moment I received my Gohonzon was a big one for me because I took an oath and made a commitment. But that wasn't really the beginning... It was maybe 9 years ago or so that my uncle randomly lent me a book on Buddhism... very insignificant at the time, but it ended up opening a completely new path for me. No one can decide what events are important in a person's life but the person themselves... usually in retrospect.
Attachment to life is overcome by reflection on impermanence.
Attachment to pleasure is overcome by reflection on suffering.
Attachment to peace is overcome by love.
Assuming responsibility for other people's happiness is neurotic. Nobody asked you to do that. It's your own happiness you are solely responsible about.
People usually enter a spiritual path urged by the selfish motivation of "What's in here for me ? How can I end my own suffering?"
But since you claim you cant' even define what you feel towards yourself, I would try to sever the connection with the intellect if I were you and make it a point to tune more to my feelings.
What kind of suffering has put you on the Buddhist path in the first place? Where are you hurting? What is missing in your picture?
Once you have figured out what's going on inside you, you can't fail to relate to other people's suffering. When you begin to connect to your personal suffering and to your deep longing for inner peace, you will begin to see that these feelings connect you to other people.
Buddhism is a path with heart. The intellect is good to develop right thought, to help you shake off your subjective distortions and accept reality for what it is, but it will only take you that far.
My personal impression is that you're totally disconnected to your emotional self and "dry" the Buddhist doctrine to acommodate that colourless personal view.
As long as you fail to make that emotional connection, you'll be sticking to the written word of Buddhism, and Buddhism is a doctrine that comes to life only when you put it into practice.
I think I replied on Dhamma Wheel, but basically, start with yourself.
Not to ask sort of unrelated questions, but I like this here post. My question though, and a possibly not well thought out one is that I have little trouble understanding the first two, but can't quite get the contrast of peace and love?
Usually love is the anti-dote to ill-will, so I'm not sure what this means.
If one has attained a truly peaceful state then it would be easy to just rest there and let the world go by. By meditating on love one will want to help others. Peace isn't overcome the attachment to it is.
@SpinyNorman, @Captain_America, It's in the Jewel Ornament of Liberation and is referred to as 'what the dharma is all about'. The JoL is the main lam rim text for the Karma Kagyu. It is sectarian I think. Basically, what person said is correct. I'm too lazy today to read more from that chapter but hopefully my coffee will kick in and I can unpack the idea of peace and love from the JoL text. An example is that you notice a child playing in poison ivy and you go into it out of love to protect the child. That example is just to give someone the 'gist'.
I'll be back when I have researched this from my text!
I'm going to avoid posting about the Jewel Ornament of Liberation because it is sectarian and is not in the Theravada like the OP.. Sorry for any derail, OP..
'attachment to peace' is a mahayana notion. But if you have or want a JoL the section on attachment to peace is Chapter 7 and it is titled: The Method: Loving-Kindness and Compassion.
I haven't read the whole thread . Perhaps some one has already suggested this-
Act as if .It may feel not genuine at first but it (compassion) will come. Ive found I can't think my way into right acting as easy as I can act my way into right thinking. Make compassion a verb and see what happens...
For me its the simple stuff first. Asking someone how's things and really listening to the response.Being more concerned with some one else's troubles rather than my own.Coming from a very self centered place this seemed foreign to me. As I practiced it it became more second nature. My empathy grew a bit at a time but I acted my way there and need to continue to do so. This was not my idea but rather suggested to me. Bob
Sometimes it takes another showing us compassion for it to arise on its own.
When and if somebody helps you in just the right way, you will feel it and there will be no unfeeling it after that.
Maybe just try seeing the universe in its entirety and every being in it as your body. Helping others is just like putting on a bandage, see?
If there is an underlying personality disorder where you can feel no empathy then there could be problems here but I believe Buddha got through to some with these issues.
I understand from your follow up post that we're kind of off track here, but just as a last bit regarding this, it's essentially giving up that comfort you'd prefer to have in order to show love/compassion for another, even if it inconveniences you/takes you out of your comfort zone? "going out of your way" for someone?
Yeah it is pretty much going out of your comfort zone to help beings. It's not complicated, just loving kindness. The new idea here is that peace is sometimes an attachment. An example is mothers and fathers sacrificing their sleep etc to nurture their child.
Most words have multiple definitions. One definition of compassion is to simply feel or experience what another is experiencing. It requires no thoughts or actions. By simply being present with another and sharing their experience we can aid them and ourselves by escaping from the illusion of being alone and separate, which often is worse than the presenting issue. I used this often in my past work as a chaplain. I did and said nothing, yet I felt their feelings and heard their thoughts with them, not trying to fix them or flee from their suffering.
Kia Ora,
What is the most efficient way (in your opinion) of cultivating metta?
An Hindu sage once said (again I can't remember who)
"If you don't feel that you're enlightened, you can always try to be !"
In other words "Fake it till you make it!" and as the saying goes 'practice makes perfect'...
Metta Shoshin
That's a common approach. The visualization, or "creation stage" practices used in Mahayana, are intended to cultivate the enlightened qualities of a particular Bodhisattva. For example the Bodhisattva Mahasattva, Avalokiteshvara, is always associated with compassion. Visualizing oneself as the Bodhisattva includes his enlightened qualities including his limitless compassion.
Fake it til you make it.