Giving up hope
Rodrigo
São Paulo, Brazil Veteran
Pema Chödrön talks about giving up hope in her book Start Where You Are: A Guide to Compassionate Living. Here are some excerpts:
"One of the most powerful teachings of the Buddhist tradition is that as long as you are wishing for things to change, they never will. As long as you’re wanting yourself to get better, you won’t. As long as you have an orientation toward the future, you can never just relax into what you already have or already are."
"There isn’t going to be some precious future time when all the loose ends will be tied up."
"There are a lot of support groups and different therapies. Many people feel wounded and are looking for something to heal them. To me it seems that at the root of healing, at the root of feeling like a fully adult person, is the premise that you’re not going to try to make anything go away, that what you have is worth appreciating. But this is hard to swallow if what you have is pain."
"As long as you’re wanting to be thinner, smarter, more enlightened, less uptight, or whatever it might be, somehow you’re always going to be approaching your problem with the very same logic that created it to begin with: you’re not good enough. That’s why the habitual pattern never unwinds itself when you’re trying to improve, because you go about it in exactly the same habitual style that caused all the pain to start."
"Right now today, could you make an unconditional relationship with yourself? Just at the height you are, the weight you are, the amount of intelligence that you have, the burden of pain that you have? Could you enter into an unconditional relationship with that?"
How do you feel about giving up hope?
Comments
Brilliant.
You see, Hope was the Fury left in pandora's box.
The box she was given - on the strict recommendation that she NEVER opened it - contained all the furies and evils of the world.
Not all of them, with one exception - ALL the furies and evils of the world.
HOPE was counted among them.
So Hope is actually a destructive energy, one which builds expectations and invariably proves to be a false friend.
You've heard of the phrase:
" 'Tis better to travel Hopefully, than to arrive".
That's because the arrival is going to disappoint, somehow. It's always a bit of an anti-climax, whereas the journey itself might have been a great adventure....
So Pema has it bang-on the money.
I agree with her.
The thing about hope is that many if not most think it's a good thing and to see it the other way around is easy to see intellectually,...it takes a while to assimilate it as a truism after such a long time thinking the opposite.
I can see your point.
But isn't that just clinging to more illusory attachment?
We don't want to let go (of a pre-conceived idea) because - we don't want to let go!
At the risk of being pelted with wet sponges, it took me very little time to give up on Hope as it being a bad idea.... I learnt my lessons quite quickly.....
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I guess sometimes and for some peeps, it seems that's all they have or believe that's all they have.
I may be a slower learner.![:\](https://newbuddhist.com/plugins/emojiextender/emoji/little/confused.png ":\")
Hah...wet sponges.
Ducks
Hopeless.
I'm not sure if I agree, but I know Pema Chodron is a wise lady, so I suspect there's something wrong with my understanding.
Six years ago I'd been seriously considering suicide for quite some time. I'd planned to get a load of pills, a couple of bottles of whiskey and a sleeping bag, and take a drive upto the Brecon Beacons, walk to a quiet spot and just get it over with. The sleeping bag was to keep me warm while I journeyed towards death (any idiot can be cold lol). I was feeling hopeless; that's why I was going to kill myself.
But as a last resort prior to suicide I went to my first A.A. meeting and what I heard and saw gave me some hope that I too could change and live sober.
Six years on I'm sober and have some peace; I'm no longer considering topping myself.
So what is it I'm misunderstanding?
If you are a believer, then perhaps hope should be given up until a more realistic approach is learned.
If you have confidence that your acts will have certain results, while knowing that those results are not guaranteed, then I think that choosing to have hope is appropriate.
For example. It costs plenty to prepare for a fishing season so we invest each year hoping to make our money back with a profit. We all know how many obstacles and risks there are between the beginning and the successful end of a season. If it works out, great, if not there is always next year. Living in hope is realistic. Without hope we might never even try.
However if I invest my money in lottery tickets or at the casino hoping to strike it rich and be happy, and lose everything then my hopes were not realistic. I deserve to suffer.
Hope and belief fall into the secondary and, while initially useful, tend to fade.
Re-reading the initial post, it seems to be talking more about acceptance to me; accepting the way we are and the way things are; rather than giving up hope.
Maybe I'm splitting hairs?
But it is NOT all we have (hope). We have so much, right now, in this moment, that in a skillful mind, who needs 'hope'?
It's about (to me) attending to the experience of life at this moment. I couldn't list what all I have right now. But before, when all I 'had' was hope, I was inattentive to my immediate experience. The undisciplined mind rates the 'now' beneath 'what I want it to be', and so seems blind to the multitudinous everything always happening. For me it's a matter of training my attention by repetition and practice.
I use some of those Korean koans such as 'What is this?" to zap me into 'now' over and over again, no matter what I'm doing, pleasant or unpleasant experience.
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I can really relate and commiserate with this and yet, it's very possible that when a person feel so down and out that they want to take their own lives, they are just so lost in the turmoil of their own emotions, it boils down to wallowing in self-pity ... but that doesn't stop me from relating very well and having great compassion.
So, what @Hamsaka said - "before, when all I 'had' was hope, I was inattentive to my immediate experience. The undisciplined mind rates the 'now' beneath 'what I want it to be', and so seems blind to the multitudinous everything always happening," helps bring my attention where it will be the most helpful.
Giving up hope is like giving up optimism, patience, kindness etc. A sort of emotional zen stoic nihilism. Pah! Seen too many advanced dharma zombies. Tend to laugh at their emotional stifling . . .
I trust, no need for hope, that most of us accept the present reality in time. How? - refuge/hope/trust.
. . . I am just a hopeless case, thank Buddha . . .
"Hope" itself has a lot of facets, some more helpful than others . . . I've victimized myself with malignant hope, which is hope that refuses to accept facts (I really wanted one plus one to equal anything but two).
I see what you are saying @Lobster. With discrimination and wisdom, hope comforts an unpleasant now, such as grieving a sudden death, even if it is hope that the grief will not be so crippling over time. Hope for increasing discrimination and wisdom is similarly 'good' hope. Whenever hope does not obscure accepting the reality of the moment, it can be 'skillful'.
In that vein I'll join your hopelessness too.
Acceptance of the present as sufficient in itself is not much use to those alcoholics, those suffering, those in turmoil, Dukkha verging on the hell realms etc AND not having the wisdom and capacity to 'just be/accept'. We sometimes need the certainty that the situation can be improved. So the teaching has also to be seen in that context.
Do you hope the far shore exists? Do you hope the Buddhas way improves our being? Or is this 'as good as it gets'? A Buddhist blended blah, nothing to plan for . . .
Most of us are peddling and paddling furiously to get away. However on only one side of a canoe, we end up going around in circles. So we stop the fury that @federica mentions. The current is taking us. Hope is a skilful means as well as a potential over indulged dream state. Know where you are. Know there is hope . . .
I think people have different ideas of what hope means. I think that there is such thing as a recognition that you can do something. Once you know you can do something you kind of turn a corner and get energy to finish it. That's what I have happen in my mind anyways as I am kind of hemmed in my drowsiness. So it is kind of a determination and a recognition that you can do it. This happens in simple things like getting the stack of papers filed. And in the awareness mandala when we recognize the connections and stuff we are accumulating for putting us in a place where we can complete the path. As we build up we have a recognition that the task can be accomplished.
And then the other ideas of hope which I have found in this thread are that hope is like a concept of yourself having something and that would be the turning point from which your whole life is all pleasure and you know everything etc. That greediness of having everything succeed is actually Ratna a Buddha energy is how I have been thinking of it. So there is a process to awareness. Ratna follows Vajra. Vajra is seeing a way to organize your view so that you can defeat an obstacle such as changing a paradigm. And then when you get in a VAM state of clarity then you expand it outward into the mandala but for me something goes wrong because I am sort of pressing to have my VAM fix everything and have only pleasure but that I sense there is a thicket of wrong views and I always get caught and dulled instead of spreading the VAM and shining it through the mandalas.
"One of the most powerful teachings of the Buddhist tradition is that as long as you are wishing for things to change, they never will."
Does she mean to say 'as long as you are ONLY wishing for things to change, they never will'?
"As long as you’re wanting yourself to get better, you won’t." I see nothing wrong or delusional with wanting to get better - and in consequence figuring out how to go about that. Planning. How else are you going to function in society, get educated, find a partner, raise your (or someone else's) kids responsibly? You have to think ahead and want to create that future - knowing the odds..... If you stick with just wanting - yes, things won't work out enough to be satisfactory. Is that what she is saying?
The OP uses the word 'hope' in an effort to interpret Pema Chodron. I am not familiar with the context of these excerpts, but I do not see her refer to 'hope' per se.
Does she talk about wanting something without having done the legwork to give it a chance to come to fruition?
If that is what she is conveying then I agree. However, that is not at all clear from her wording - she makes it sound as though wanting something is bad because it makes you think ahead, separating yourself from the now.
"As long as you have an orientation toward the future, you can never just relax into what you already have or already are."
Again, if she refers to wishful thinking, baseless projections, I agree. But, IMO, she expresses herself much too vaguely to make (common) sense.
Her examples and her wording seem extreme - there is much to be said for choosing 'the middle way'.
My own questions frequently revolve around the concept of looking ahead while remaining in the Now. We hear so much about 'don't live in the past or the future', and it makes sense to avoid losing touch with what is real, but this general view seems to disregard the benefits of learning from the past and planning for the future....
BTW - I admire Pema Chodron, and I've read and listened to several of her talks. Maybe these excerpts really need to be taken in context.
Just for clarification... The chapter in question is called "Abandon Any Hope of Fruition". She starts this chapter by saying:
"Our next slogan is 'Abandon any hope of fruition.' You could also say, 'Give up all hope' or 'Give up' or just 'Give.' The shorter the better."
She also talks about people with addictions and stress, an issue that have been discussed in this topic. I think it may clarify what she means with "giving up hope".
"In Boston there’s a stress-reduction clinic run on Buddhist principles. It was started by Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn, a Buddhist practitioner and author of Full Catastrophe Living. He says that the basic premise of his clinic—to which many people come with a lot of pain—is to give up any hope of fruition. Otherwise the treatment won’t work. If there’s some sense of wanting to change yourself, then it comes from a place of feeling that you’re not good enough. It comes from aggression toward yourself, dislike of your present mind, speech, or body; there’s something about yourself that you feel is not good enough. People come to the clinic with addictions, abuse issues, or stress from work—with all kinds of issues. Yet this simple ingredient of giving up hope is the most important ingredient for developing sanity and healing."
I have a feeling that what she means is giving up our mindset of always looking for an ideal and perfect future. What we have (and will always have) is an unperfect present. Paradoxally, only when we can really accept that, we can really change, like was said by the psychologist Carl Rogers:
"One way of putting it is that I feel I have become more adequate in letting myself be what I am. It becomes easier for me to accept myself as a decidedly imperfect person, who by no means functions at all times in the way in which I would like to function… the curious paradox is that when I accept myself as I am, then I change. I believe that I have learned this from my clients as well as within my own experience – that we cannot change, we cannot move away from what we are, until we thoroughly accept what we are. Then change seems to come about almost unnoticed."
Perhaps it does but it is more about motivation, and acting on the acceptance of the present. If you had no sense of the potential fruition, you might have limited reason to continue.
All dharma is hopeful, promising and leads to fruition, if it did not we might as well spend our time going around in alcoholic, depressed, delusional, conflicted emotional states or other negative entrapments. No thanks. Sounds hopeless.
Examine what is being said. Acceptance and practice. False hope = oh I may just wake up and not be an alcoholic/depressed/missing a leg etc, that is delusional. Magic avoidance type thinking.
There are no fruits of karma? Good luck with that one, just don't beat yourself over the head with all your past life naughtiness (Buddhist past life fairy tales are equally hopeless indulgences that fail to accept now).
Accept where you are. Hope there is a clear way to improve the situation. Do you need hope or certainty? Nothing is absolutely certain. Hope is about potential, probabilities and motivation.
Hope that makes sense. No? No worries, hopefully someone can explain it better . . .
The effective therapies I have experienced are not about giving up hope but about giving up self-reliance. Using someone else's method - such as the Noble Eightfold Path. But if I had no hope that the Four Noble Truths are in fact true (especially the fourth) what reason would I have to practice?
Personally, no. My moments are too often bad - however much I appreciate the blue sky/frost on the hedge/whatever. The idea of my health always being so bad that, at the age of 30 when apologising for walking like a little old woman, my sister told me "Sarah, little old women walk much faster than you" is not one I want to consider. I don't cling to the idea that I will ever get better but equally I don't cling to the idea that I won't. I continue to seek ways to achieve the former, for example in Buddhism. I call that having hope - but perhaps that's my personal interpretation?
Charlotte Joko Beck has a similar chapter in Everyday Zen. I think her definition of hope is similar to what Pema Chodron had in mind.
"We have to give up this idea in our heads that somehow, if we could only figure it out, there's some way to have this perfect life that is just right for us. Life is the way it is. And only when we begin to give up those maneuvers does life begin to be more satisfactory."
Without gilding that lily any further, for me that is Hope, that things are going to be OK.
Hope is one of the three theological virtues. These three abide when all else fails or is lost: Faith, Hope, and Charity. Buddhism is no different than Christianity in this matter.
I beg to differ, if I may.
I discovered the difference between 'Superstitious Hope' and Realistic Optimism' when I took up Buddhism.
The former is definitely evident in many Christian practitioners. The latter in my view, is more prevalent among Buddhists.
Guild the lily...guild the lily!
The way I grew up thinking about what hope is, when people say drop hope, I feel like that song by Sam Cooke - Workin' on a Chain Gang.
![:\](https://newbuddhist.com/plugins/emojiextender/emoji/little/confused.png ":\")
I've given up hope. I'll tell you why. Hope would tell me to continuously doubt and second guess my doctors and neurologists who are treating me. Hope would tell me to screw around with my meds and not take them the way I'm supposed to, or maybe not at all because "you know your body better than those dumb doctors who just peddle medication for the big pharma groups and they only studied for nigh on ten years. What do they really know?"
Hope can lead to false confidence and arrogance. Which is fine when you're talking about a crush on someone or wanting to win the Lotto, get a new job or buy a car. But when you talk about your health or the really serious stuff, hope can be more of a hindrance than a help.
So what do I have instead of hope? Realism, acceptance and oddly enough, that has given me peace of mind and direction. I have accepted I will die, I have accepted that I will have to give up control over my body at any given time, I have accepted it could be any time given the two aneurisms that have booby trapped my brain and I have accepted that if I don't remain calm and logical, death will happen sooner rather than later. In turn this has given me quality time with my family and friends because I have never been more aware of the things that count and those that don't.
Raven
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I believe what she means is that if one learns to love what is or what they are, their life will improve. Not in ways they planned, but in a natural way where they have no control over the outcome. Wishing and wanting and hoping are clinging and set us up for disappointment if things don't turn out as we hoped. Hoping is living in the future. Loving what you have is living now. Learning how to love the journey rather than the destination is how I interpret her powerful teaching of the Buddhist tradition.
Christian hope is not superstitious. Jeremy Taylor's prayer, used at the time of the visitation of the sick by the minister is sublime:
It's the non-classical Calvinist Christians who have abandoned Hope. They preach TULIP:
These things kinda run together, but my main point is that the Calvinists, in their theology about Perseverance (Assurance that they'll be saved no matter what) would more justly be charged with superstition than classical Christians. Despair is not the only polar opposite to hope; presumption has no need for hope, either. The Calvinists have discarded hope from the vocabulary of their theology, also. My point is that, even though Buddhists can make it on their own without an intermediary Savior, hope is probably part of the equation if we're honest with ourselves.
Faith is a confidence, hope is an assurance that doth not presume too much, and charity is the cement that holds everything together.
Very well said @dhammachick ^^^ I feel this is a perfect explanation of the meaning implied in the OP and context in which wishful delusion is a hindrance.
Very stark. Very real.
Sorry, folks, when I'm so thick. Here's another spiel on Christian Hope not being steeped in superstition:
The Christian Theological Virtues, namely Faith, Hope, and Charity [I Corinthians 13:13] are important things to be perfected in the Christian's life (They are called virtues, after all.) Being virtues, they are qualities that are cultivated in differing measures within each person, but they are all important and they do overlap each other's boundaries. Excellence in one of these virtues informs the others, and so on.
St. Paul lists Faith first, and rightly so, for that is the thing upon which our very sanity most depends. At root, faith is RELIANCE on things, that they are what we think they are or are still as we left them before we left the room to check on the oven or whatever. Neither the monetary system or public transport, etc., could exist for a nanosecond without people having the capacity to give things their proper credit and respect. But beyond that simple fundament of faith, there's a broader scope —above the waters of just sheer practical application. Nor does that higher "Faith" need to be precisely laid out in rational argument and proofs; it can also receive the doctrinal teachings in a more mystical and open-minded way. I guess that Faith could be either "steadfastness in belief," if that's your thing, or steadfastness in some kind of beatific vision. Faith informs, as does love; Hope forms and reforms.
St. Paul lists Hope second, and for good reason: It is always at least partly virtuous in that it keeps us from drowning completely in the world's cruel waves. All one's faith, all one's hopes, and all one's loves may be false, but false hopes will never condemn you nor demean you as will the other two failings —which can be fatal to the soul (Anima, fyBot!)... HOPE is a Refuge. We can be absolutely certain of nothing in the "final destination" scope of things, but the Christian Hope, at least, is a non-drowning Refuge, the place in the heart —the lotus— where "God" will be eternally present. This is not a superstition; this is a prayer of the heart and Is Real to the Christian.
Hope forms and reforms: A salient thing about hope is the way it's tied up so intimately with our affections and aspirations for other people. I cannot give up on wishing the best for people; that would do violence to my very core. You just cannot separate hope from charity and still have charity, it seems to me. Hope is the lifesblood of love, and is informed by a reasonable and holy hope —and thereby reformed when need be.
Lastly comes Charity, which thing St. Paul calls the Greatest of these three. And so it is, for it not only informs us (as does Faith), but is the only one of the three that can truly be said to deal with Certainty. The Heart is certain of the love that pumps through it, but can never really hold so tightly hope and faith. The truly excellent Loving Heart, of course, could hold all three —but then they'd all be fused into one single flame. Selfless, unconditional, nearly involuntary loving-kindness sitting on the lotus of the heart radiating Joy, Light, and Peace. Love transforms.
But it takes a whole lot of hope to get there, thus have I heard from the Russian saint.
Lojong training mentions hope in this way
"This slogan undercuts our attachment to either success or failure. It is a kind of positive giving up. Abandoning any hope of fruition does not mean abandoning our projects and ambitions. Instead it points to a way of going about things that is present focused rather than fixated on results."
http://www.tricycle.com/train-your-mind-abandon-any-hope-fruition
I know Pema Chodron is a great believer in Lojong slogans. Perhaps it is particular to Mahayana Buddhism specifically. I don't know.
Following @dhammachick's observations and practical examples... ( @dhammachick, the following does not dispute what you wrote, I think I understand your logic.)
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IMO the concept of "hope" itself can not be blamed for any misgivings or unfortunate outcomes.
It's the conditions that hope is based upon that will determine whether something may or may not come to fruition:
If hope is based on an extremely unrealistic scenario (a person believes s/he is better informed than highly trained specialist) then this is bound to backfire. If one's hope is based on realistic expectations after research and such, one's work is done and an be followed by the opportunity to live in peace, day by day.
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There are no certainties - and yet, if you (general 'you') follow and have reason to trust a certain prescribed method or (8F)path, then you can have hope to overcome known obstacles. In this case, you are aware of obstacles, and you do your best to avoid or overcome them. You are prepared and "hope for the best".
The fact that there is reason to believe that you may succeed, even if only to some degree, can give you hope. No?
What would Pema say or do if she had exhausted traditional medicine in her efforts to overcome a potentially fatal disease, if there is a good track record in alternative medicine that would give her good chance of recovery and thus hope for survival.... "Hope", IMO, just means there is good potential for the outcome one wants to see. It doesn't take away from the sense of Now.
What would motivate her to choose such a path if not hope - given that there is no certainty in medicine. Making a choice and then being seemingly indifferent seems odd.
Is there a buddhistically correct term for positive thinking? ;-)
IMO, hope based on wishful thinking is unskillful.
Decisions based on good judgement can be accompanied by hope that the outcome will be positive. I see nothing wrong with that.
Is this a Lojong slogan?
I guess it points towards acceptance!
It's also an incorrect translation, and all too common.
The original phrase runs:
"Lasciate OGNI speranza voi Ch' entrate." Correct Translation:
Abandon ALL Hope ye who enter here.
The 'ALL' precedes the 'Hope'.
It doesn't refer to the entrants.
It refers to 'Hope'.
(It is the Sign written over Hell's Door, and is a quotation from Dante's "Inferno" which John Bunyan famously plagiarised. )
With hope, we want things to change instead of using what we have right now as it is for positive results.
All who enter here, abandon all hope but pack a lunch. (Sorry, a play on @Lobster s picnikin in the hell realms)
Abandon ALL Hope ye who enter here.
Does it affect the basic meaning though? I'm not seeing it.
It's a greater emphasis, a more sombre and depressing message.
Besides, the meaning isn't the point, Dante's intention was to highlight the stark dramatic no exit policy of entering through Hell's portals.
The correct translation conveys the intended never-ending despair.
Does holding out hope, effect patience and acceptance of reality?
Indeed.
Dharma, the eightfold path, is immersed in hope for a future way out of samsara.
The idea of accepting the present is part of an initial appraisal not some sort of 'abandon all hope those who enter the hell of Buddhist Nowism'.
Avoiding the constant whining of 'where is my samadhi,/progress that I expected/peace of mind/dropping of the skandha' etc. is part of the attachment to fruition that needs as much abandoning as possible . . . that is useful, skilful advice.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skandha
Unrealistic and fantastical dreamlike hope for siddhi, lotus born supreme Buddahood, my little pony dharma, is just useless escapism.
Not all hope is abandoned, hope takes on a new maturity, based in skilful and pragmatic implementation of dharma. Awareness of the past or future is not lost, even for the enlightened.
Happy New Year?
Of course Happy New Year.
Isn't hope yearning for a fantasy? A mental construct supposing the way things "should be"?
I have found that Jack Kornfield, who practices Tharavada Buddhism, also teaches presence rather than hope.
“When we let go of our battles and open our heart to things as they are, then we
come to rest in the present moment. This is the beginning and the end of spiritual practice. Only in this moment can we discover that which is timeless. Only here can we find the love that we seek. Love in the past is simply memory, and love in the future is fantasy. Only in the reality of the present can we love, can we awaken, can we find peace and understanding and connection with ourselves and the world.”
― Jack Kornfield, A Path with Heart: A Guide Through the Perils and Promises of Spiritual Life
What a great discussion.
I suspect part of why we agonize over defining "hope" is that, in Western culture
(and most especially the US, I think), we are taught that living without hope is tantamount to death. You must believe you can get and have to participate in the American Dream, or else what good is your life?
Discovering new goals and paths to end pieces of your suffering is wonderful. I'm not sure I'd call that "hope", however. It's progress.
"Living without hope."
Those are just words. But like the next American, I experience a wistful aversion to them, without really understanding them, nor the context for that matter!
Take away my hope? Might as well rip my heart out of my chest, rob me of all possibility! Bury me alive, I might as well be dead without hope.
Writing that out is effortless, but to be honest, it is a meme and if I examine it mindfully, it doesn't make a lot of sense, and it's not exactly true.
@dhammachick inspires me with hope for those undergoing mind numbing Dukkha. Just as I know that metta is Love and should be unleashed without restraint not constipated by Buddhist trained compassion - pah - you go @Hamsaka . . . get that Heart expanding . . .
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Came across another article about hope and how it is viewed in Buddhism.
http://www.rimecenter.org/dharma/2008/11/15/transcending-fear-hope.html
'When trying to think of a Dharma talk for today I noticed the Obama sticker on the back my car that had a photo of him with the one word “hope.” Unlike our Christian brothers and sisters the word “hope from the Buddhist perspective is considered negative - something to be avoided. ” In Christian terms it is usually referred to as ‘hope’ in God. In Buddhist terms it is often associated with the word “fear.”"
Since reading this discussion I have often attempted to live without hope, and I find it giving me more peace. Not from giving up, but from being able to accept what is going on around me.