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Alcohol
Mingle
Veteran
Had a rather heavy drinking session the other day as it was my 26th bday and I drunk ALOT. I even missed my before bed meditation and now I am paying the price. Since then my meditation has been very difficult as I've had almost zero breath concentration. Do many of you guys still like to drink? How does it effect your practice?
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I'm 4'10" petite and relatively slight, (though I'm aiming to lose a few lbs....) so I don't 'hold' alcohol at all well. If I have a glass of wine, I can tell after 3 mouthfuls that it's affecting me...
So I avoid it completely. I don't drink.
I still drink from time to time. Whenever I have a hangover, I just let things run their course. When I feel better, I get back to the practice. I don't think you have to force yourself into meditation. If you do that, it will feel like a chore and make you feel even worse.
Hahahah oh the hangover after drinking!
I still drink alcohol but it does affect concentration, normally a day or two after.
I don't think it's great for health and it negatively affects concentration but it depends on your point of meditation. You can still observe a chaotic mind and not attach.
I would like to stop drinking but I think when I want to stop I will.
Don't best yourself up about drinking on your birthday
hope it was a great day!
I'm an alkie and therefore can't drink (safely or sensibly) so totally abstinent here. I don't miss hangovers.
Obviously meditating with a hangover is not ideal! On the other hand getting drunk on your birthday isn't the end of the world, assuming it doesn't become a regular habit.
Nah. Probably about once a week.
Once a week doesn't sound like a problem. That's not a strictly Buddhist answer, but I'm Irish.
Your body is recovering from a toxin, so you'll note how different it feels when you try to meditate. That's probably not a bad thing
I drink, but I don't remember the last time I had a hangover. It's been years. I don't drink to that point, just have no reason to do so. We brew our own beer and mead, so I might have a beer in the evening or a glass of wine with a date night. Not only does drinking too much affect my mediation, it affects my balance in yoga horribly for a day or 2 after, and it affects my running and recovery. It also makes me unpleasant as a person, lol. Because I have so many other things that are too important to me drinking to a point those things are affected isn't worth it.
Not to sound high and mighty, but I don't drink at all. I don't like the way it makes me feel woozy and out of control, and hangovers suck. It didn't give me much pause to take the fifth precept. Now the fourth precept, that's a whole other ball of wax.
New years eve was the worst. Drink and weed combined I felt so out of touch with the meditation after. Although I have meditated whilst smoking the herb on its own and things felt so crystal clear.
I do miss the mushrooms. Now I have to spend hours on bleedin jhana.
Happy Birthday.
Had three glasses of wine today. I am not a monk or drunk, the last time I had alcohol was several weeks ago.
Hangups interfere with meditation? Can it be true? Good gracious the things we learn ... [I think you knew that really]
That's a habit, and it's regular. If it doesn't bother you then perhaps you should not meditate the day after your drinking day/night.
_ /\ _
Pardon me? Crystal clear? My mind is so free of delusion ... in my dreams ...
Did anyone spot the deliberate mistake? Come on! Really?
Maybe I am just a little sceptical ...
I've smoked weed before and had a similar experience. Almost like heightened awareness, very clear. I can see why Rastafarians use it in religious practices. I'm sure more groups do.
No, alcohol is like a shot of steroids for the monkey mind. Monkey mind is an idiot. It's better to not give him any help. All he does is make problems!
Altered conciousness, which is what 'heightened awareness' is, can be induced by hallucinogens, stimulants, hyper ventilation and sport/yoga/dance etc. The list is endless: paranoids have greater clarity, the psychotic, the hormonally or moon effected all report 'greater clarity'. Some mind states are pleasant, attractive, some not.
As a pastafarian I would not trust 'his noodly appendages' let alone those overly sauced. I like rastas, chillum sadhus and the chilled hippies that roll spliffs in Tantric Temples. However clarity with an untainted mind is rare enough.
I will try and keep a clear mind ... just like @Rowan1980 in the following post ...
Iz plan.
I haven't imbibed in over a year. My stomach can't handle it, and I no longer enjoy feeling "toasty," and I prefer to keep my mind clear. Your mileage may vary.
Yes, unless you're out to party, smoking and drinking is a bad combination.
I know what you mean about the herb but the intention of using it as a tool has to be there or it can increase the likelihood of monkey-mind chatter or sleepiness. It can't be snuck in, it has to be incorporated into the process.
I used to drink. Heck, I used to do whatever I could get my hands on except for anything that had to be injected.
Since I switched to vaporizing, I hardly even smoke cigarettes anymore but I do still partake in the herb a few times a week.
The three glasses of poison you ingested may also have something to do with it.
I don't really want to be the one to point it out but just because you can not achieve clear mindedness using some herb to help clear the fog does not mean others can not. It's all in the approach and experience.
I know I certainly can't do it after a couple glasses of wine even if the intent is there. I can't even do it if I've had too much coffee throughout the day.
I can and have done it with the herb.
I wouldn't suggest smoking weed every day or anything like that because it can lead to laziness which can lead to being unhealthy and unmotivated but if people can have their wine, I would suggest they don't go knocking the herb.
Overdose on alcohol and it can kill you and many people have died this way.
Overdose on the herb and you will experience hunger and then sleepiness and not one single person has ever died this way.
They tried to claim 37 people died in Colorado but it was a hoax designed to test the peoples gullibility.
Too much of anything is bad for us... We can die from drinking too much water and we're 60% water.
I haven't drank or smoked (herb or tobacco) in almost 7 years. (I am an alcoholic)
I remember my patterns of thought (or lack thereof) when I was actively using. I have a hard enough time taming the monkey mind without.
Actually, no, nevermind, lol.
A drinker dissing mary-jane is the pot calling the kettle potato.
Tsk, tsk you require a list of the drugs I have taken, when and how? LOL.
I have never known from extensive personal experience any time or person including myself, who achieved permanent clarity through drugs.
Never.
My experience may be limited to too few years and drugs. [lobster fails again]
Ignorance is believing that relaxation or feelings of benevolence or loosening or breaking boundaries with hallucinogens as done by shaman, Timothy Leary or myself has anything but personal ignorance and confusion as the basis and 'insightful clarity' achieved is temporary, flawed and [spoiler alert:] deluded. There is a good reason why taking drugs is not part of the middle way ...
I have no objection to people drinking or taking drugs if that is their inclination. None.
You may be exceptional in your achievement of greater clarity through intoxicants. Somehow I doubt it. [shrug] Sounds to me like justification of personal habits as in 'the spiritual benefits of [insert behavour]'
... and now back to the partying ...
@lobster;
lmao.
You are trying to move the goal posts but you have to be quicker than that.
Nice try, though.
Nobody said anything about permanent clarity but if you know anyone that has achieved permanent clarity then do tell.
Have you or anyone you know ever had moments of clarity on a day where caffeine was ingested?
I have had at least one moment of clarity during walking meditation on a day where the herb was ingested. I can only speak for myself just as you can only speak for yourself.
Trying to compare weed to alcohol, cocaine or other dangerous drugs is just well...
Silly.
I just read an article the other day suggesting that religion came from hallucinagenic experiences and not the other way around (ie people who experienced things via various drugs created religion). It was interesting to think about. I can't find the exact article but this one talks about it, too. I know it's not a new idea, but it wasn't something I had read before.
Puts a new spin on things to wonder if any or even all religions are a result of people in such an altered mind state, and whether that experience makes religion more, or less, valid.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/12/religion-as-a-product-of-psychotropic-drug-use/282484/
That almost happened to me about 11 years ago but it wasn't even drug related, it was food poisoning with a lack of sleep.
I wrote about it here:
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/15160/the-way-of-infinity#latest
Even when I shared it here 3 years ago it brought back shivers.
Now it's just a bunch of chatter.
I don't drink alcohol at all these days.
When I did, there was no real clarity and it impeded my cognition.
I figure that anything interfering with my cognition is a hindrance to my practice.
It's a strange thing. My ex was an alcoholic and a prescription drug addict (adderall and xanax). Before he got to the point of the drugs, he was an alcoholic from probably the age 16 or so on. I met him when he was 21. He was a terrific artist and musician. But when he was clean and sober, he lost the ability to write music and draw. When he'd drink it would come back again. I'm not saying the alcohol gave him those abilities. I think he was blocking himself and when he drank that inhibition (like so many others) disappeared. It removed obstacles for him. So many better ways to do that. It always made me sad that he was so incredibly smart and gifted and he thought it was a result of drinking.
That happened to so many talented people.
It's sad because although the drink or the drugs are sometimes the catalyst that brings it out, it only means it was there all along waiting to be seen.
Mental dependence sucks.
I think this question of alcohol is simply a demonstration of the priority one makes of
facing ones own ignorance
or not
in each moment.
I do enjoy a good bottle of wine from time to time. I do feel the difference during meditation when under the influence of alcohol. However, I don't think it matters at all. It is still meditation and surely that can only be a good thing
See,I don't get that. When I drank I didn't feel out of control, I felt very much IN CONTROL (even if I couldn't walk properly).
@Tosh Not sure how to explain the difference, but I always felt like I was on the verge of doing something impossibly stupid. I always had issues with social rejection, and always felt that if I got drunk I would "get stupid" and do something that would make me a pariah. And after 3 or 4 tequilas, I always had a feeling of impending doom if I were to imbibe more.
Just like my 10+ years with stims. And heroin was the only drug I turned down offered to me. I've been clean now three years, but I still drink alcohol just to get even short breaks with my chronic anxiety.
"The best strategy for an individual depends upon what the majority of the population are doing. Since the rest of the population consists of individuals, each one trying to maximize his own success, the only strategy that persists will be one which, once evolved, cannot be bettered by any deviant individual." — Richard Dawkins
I do drink now and then over a good dinner or at parties.
When I begin to feel tipsy I stop, and "giddy tipsy" is the farthest I'll usually go, though once in a blue moon I have gone beyond the limit, though with no heavy hangover.
I suppose the difference lies in the attachment factor.
Do I need to drink? Do I control my drinking or my drinking is controlling me? Who runs the show?
I have never attmpted to meditate after drinking, though.
I've been told by meditation instructors it's not ideal.
I think self-medicating with booze is a dodgy path to go down; it's what alkies basically do; we don't drink for the taste you know. Can't you get anti-anxiety medication from your doctor?
And maybe investigate ways - such as Buddhists practises - to deal with your anxiety in a more healthy way?
Mrs Tosh is the same as yourself. Me? After three-or-four drinks I thought of myself as six-inches-taller, handsome and incredibly sharp, witty and humorous.
I was probably a real arse-hole though.
I don't like the lack of control, either. I don't feel so "I might do something stupid!" probably because I'm not at bars drinking with friends and stuff. When I was younger I never worried I'd be stupid, because of course when I was partying with friends I was the smartest and best lookin' person around! Nothing stupid to happen there! LOL
I don't like even the remotest effect of alcohol. Every once in a while I brain fart and sit down with a beer after mowing the lawn but too many hours after I last ate. I'll start to feel it half way through, and I stop drinking it. I just do not like the feeling at all. I feel fuzzy and slow and invincible (more in word than deed). I lose my awareness of what my ego is up to and it takes control. That is the lack of control I do not like.
Narcotics are even worse. I won't take them. When I had knee surgery, I refused any pain meds. I hate them. I took advil and turmeric and nothing more. That feeling of being under water, slow and dense, I just cannot stand it. One time when I was young, probably 21, 22 somewhere in there, I took one of my boyfriend's ADD meds. I don't remember what it was anymore Cylert maybe. Now that would be the drug for me! So I never did it again. Hyper-aware and full of energy are 2 things I looooove. But getting them from drugs would be incredibly dangerous for me, and I knew that right away thankfully. My ex was hooked, he took sometimes 7 of them a day (at that point he was taking adderall, which I never took). I get the same general feeling from a clean and healthy diet and a good run, swim, bike ride, or playing with my kids. And coffee now and then, lol. So I stick to that. There is nothing that makes me feel as good as working really hard and sweating my butt off during a good workout. It sets up my whole day. I exercise after I meditate and carry my meditation into my exercise. It sets up a good state of mind to let my body do it's thing and be aware of how everything is going without the ego popping in to give me bad advice.
You're very good, @karasti. I wish I had some of your discipline.
I dont drink or smoke, you can have it so much fun without.
I eventually gave up alcohol, caffiene and processed sugars. I lost weight quickly and feel great. But I don't think you need to be osessive about it. Take the middle path eh?
@Tosh mostly fear. All 4 of my grandparents were alcoholics and anything addicting was always something our parents warned us about. So I did not want to go through what they did. Then I spent a lot of years with an addict/alcoholic and saw what it did to him and his family and eventually to our family. It wasn't that I didn't want to try things or take another ADD med. I was too afraid of the risks. In time, I realized I didn't want to try them anyhow. I wouldn't try them today if they were legal. I just don't care to alter my mind in that way anymore. I'm happy with my life, it's rare I want to escape (though there are days!).My kids kept me in line, too. Because my ex was always throwing our lives into chaos, I felt I needed to provide stability (though the best thing would have been to leave much earlier than I did) and that kept me from falling into the life he lived.
I think almost everyone goes through phases in life where they want to pretend they aren't there, where they want to escape loneliness, mental illness, family dynamics, school, parental pressure, or whatever. I was no different. When I left home, I found the internet.When I went home for summer, internet wasn't here yet, I had to dial into AOL long distance, and boy my parents weren't happy about that, lol. Despite that it had no physical effects on my health, it was just as bad as anything else one can be addicted to. It was my escape, very much. Even now I take long breaks from the internet just to make sure I still can. It is a constant, conscious effort to pay attention to my time spent, and how I feel when I'm online. To shut the computer off and not spend hours doing nothing on it. Winter time especially. I can pick up a beer and put it down. I can have 1 and be done for weeks. Some people are the same with internet. They can turn off the computer and not turn it on for days. Not me. So it's no different really. I am careful with anything that occupies a lot of my time or when my thoughts become obsessive.
^^^ Well said @karasti As a repetive behavour junkie, in my case internet junkie, it is all too easy to feel superior on the basis of 'well I don't do that'.
So widening the idea of addiction we can see what behavour is beneficial and what delusion.
As a meditation junkie (daily habit) I notice no effect from three glasses of wine at a family get together. I occasionally still drink tea during meditation. Others take self or prescribed medication to help them block pain, feel alert or [insert reason]. I drink a lot maybe once year, usually Christmas. Personally I try not to go beyond being tipsy but a couple of years ago got it wrong.
An example of mood effecting 'addiction' is music or sex. On the whole this can be skilfull but we can be very dependent on it. Who has a shopping or TV addiction? Attachment/dependency/addiction is a continuum IMO.
I feel daily meditation is a helpful and skilful addiction.
... and now a message from my sponsor ...
Video games are my drug of choice. If only I had spent all those wasted hours meditating instead...
Oh, and coffee. Give me another quad espresso!
Not always, but often times, I am heedless when I drink. I have also noticed that as I grow older it takes longer for me to bounch-back after getting trashed.
..."Bounch"....back...?
No I haven't been drinking :-)
I'm surprised you didn't catch mingle up about " I drunk a lot."
A popular thread this turned out to be.
I'm as jober as a sudge right now