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Am I looking at Buddhism the wrong way
Mingle
Veteran
I want inner peace as does everyone and I want to be happy this is why I have become a Buddhist. I find it Ironic though as Buddhism shows you the path to inner peace but I find adopting a religion into your beliefs is the best way to create massive conflict in ones mind. I'm basing my happiness values and morality on the strength that Buddhism is true and I can get very upset when I read something that contradicts my beliefs. How can you guys keep your cool when someone says something like Buddha may not have existed?
2
Comments
Quoting some dude that may or may not have lived thousands of years ago....
In the Akkosa Sutta, a man named Akkosa found out that one of his clansmen had just become a disciple of the Buddha. Outraged, Akkosa went to the Buddha to give the Buddha a piece of his mind – he hurled abuse and insults at the Buddha, telling the Buddha what he thought of him in no uncertain terms.
The Buddha was unmoved in the slightest by this barrage of insults and just asked a question in return:
“Do you sometimes receive visitors as guests?”
“Yes I do” replied Akkosa.
“And when they come, do you offer them food and drink and courtesies?” asked the Buddha.
“Yes, sometimes I do” Akkosa said.
“So what if your guests don’t accept what you offer to them – where do the food, drink and courtesies return to?”
“They return to me of course!” Akkosa answered.
“Akkosa, you came here today, hurling insults and abuse at me. I do not accept what you have offered. So where do these insults and abuse return?”
Why's that?
Protip: Don't care whether he really existed or not
You have to understand that people have opinions, views and perceptions that may or may not entirely correlate with what your opinions, views and perceptions bring you to think.
That you disagree with them, is your prerogative.
That you find their opinions, views and perceptions skewed distorted, incorrect, inaccurate, unskilful... those are your opinions views and perceptions.
Think, say and do what you have come to firmly believe is right, for you.
Follow the path you have considered, examined, investigated and come to accept, as your path.
They have their own ways to travel.
You are neither obliged, not compelled to walk in their footsteps.
Nor they in yours.
I would replace the word "religion" with "dogma".
It is a good thing when beliefs are contradicted. It perfectly illustrates why we call them beliefs and not facts.
Not necessarily.
I think that's something everyone experiences (or has the potential to experience) to some degree in the earlier stages of their practice, when we see or suspect that there may be a path to happiness contained in a religious tradition or some other means.
When we're drawn towards something like Buddhism, for example, we explore, study, and begin to adopt certain views and practices, which we often find helpful and reassuring. The trouble comes at this stage, when we start to cling to these things (i.e., the Buddha's proverbial raft) and make them a part of our identity, so that when we hear or read criticism, it causes us dukkha. I can't count the number of hours I've spent on this forum and others like it defending Buddhism or my particular set of views about it.
But after time practicing and reflecting on these things, that tendency will lessen. We'll start to unravel our ego/self-identity and lessen our attachments to our views, seeing them as the rafts they are. At this stage, we no longer feel as strong of a need to defend anyone or anything. We can express our ideas and experiences without suffering if people disagree.
Eventually, if we're consistent in our practice and don't spend too much time losing ourselves in debate, we'll learn how to trade the short-term suffering that comes from clinging to skillful views and practices for the long-term happiness of letting go.
-If I may gently suggest, perhaps you might want to reconsider your premise. When we attach to the desire for happiness, it seems to me this will only lead to our suffering. The trick is to let go of the desire for happiness and practice what works for you to relieve your suffering; just a thought concerning what might be a relevant aside...
@Mingle you have to believe or put faith in something in the beginning right? Trust your heart.
Most people get upset when we have contradictions to our beliefs. Hence all the wars etc. The trick is to see that different beliefs is a part of life, can you imagine what it would be like if we were all the same? How boring. So no point getting upset.
If you get to a point where Buddhas teachings are bearing fruits, who cares if he existed or not? You have directly seen what he has said to be true. You don't need your belief in it anymore. You know.
Nobody could sway you. So trust your heart and sincerely go find out what's true for you. I really like your honest posts
Metta
That's the thing though, I don't think the practice has brought me any real certainty. Does it eventually? My mind is so skeptical at the moment and I feel like everything I'm doing I'm just kidding myself with. Is this natural though as I have heard the ego does resist the process.
Yes.
Practice eventualy makes you OK with uncertainty ...
Fake it till you make it baby.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
... and now back to the processing ...
Don't worry, trust your heart mate. It will lead you to the right path for you. It happens at different speeds for everyone. It will eventually give you aha moments that the teachings talk about. Some are small but your trust grows.
I think the first one for me was meditating and realising I couldn't ultimately control thoughts. The damn things kept coming. That was a big relief for me and my trust grew.
Another indirect thing I noticed is that when I have an argument with my wife, I put down "my swords" in minutes. It used to be days a few years back.
My path isn't directly the one I started on. Keep going, don't have expectations and try see what the teachings are talking about. Ask is it true?
Metta
Well, by not caring what others think or say about Buddha or Buddhism, and while I didn't read the responses yet, I'm pretty sure many said the same thing in on form or anther. If someone says the moon does not exist, or that the moon does not create the tides, do you get mad? Of course not. You know what makes the tides, and it is the moon and someone spouting nonsense doesn't change that.
The difference is, you are not attached to the moon or tides, so someone may cuss the moon all they want, and you shrug. Stupid is as stupid does. Without attachment, you understand the moon does not belong to you. It is not a part of you. So you feel no anger from being attacked. But our religions, we become so attached to the beliefs that an attack on Buddha or Buddhism becomes an attack on us personally.
Non-attachment does not mean non-caring, though. I care about Buddhism very much. It pains me to see it misunderstood or misused. And an attack on Buddhists is very much a concern, as is an attack on anyone because of their religion, Muslim or Christian or non-religious.
That is where practice comes in. For example in anapanasati (mindfulness of breathing), you are training to calm your body and mind. Once your practice matures you will appreciate the peace and calm that comes with it. You will also come to see how the mind plays tricks by creating stories that cause doubt and disturb the essential peace. You then stop believing those stories.
Have faith in the process as many of us can vouch for its effectiveness.
When we do things in order for lasting happiness we are setting ourselves up for a fall eventually. Even if it is practicing Buddhism.
Buddhism doesn't have to be a religion or a set of beliefs. It can just be a process of awakening.
That could be a problem because as you can see, even Buddhists have differing beliefs and experiences. I don't assume anything is true but can still argue the merits and delusions of certain views.
By knowing that Buddha may not have existed and seeing how that can't take away from the dharma if it works.
Yes, confidence does develop, or at least the ability to deal with uncertainty.
There will always be things you can read that will contradict your beliefs. No matter what your beliefs are, or what they become in the future, there will be wrings that disagree.
Here's what I find helpful: I don't worry about Buddha. I have a set of principles and practices. I find great value, and great peace, in this collection of wisdom and it isn't external -- all the changes are within me.
If Budda existed, or if he didn't, has no impact at all.
Trust me, there's far more confusion if you keep up browsing all the religions of the world trying to find the one that is true.
They all lie a little, perhaps it's there where your faith and practice is measured.
But don't trust me. I do exactly the opposite.
Here is what Buddha said and I never doubt him ever.
" You wise ones, do not give in to doubt! Banish all doubt forever! The Buddha’s words are true, never false. "
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/OldWeb/resources/sutras/lotus/sources/lotus16.htm
bit different in translation but same meaning.
@KarikoPuppies , source please. Link to quoted text is required....
There was a Buddha in the historic sense, the founder of what came to be known as Buddhism. Exact descriptions, details, etc are of little consequence. As has already been pointed out, it is the practice and principles that matter.
@KarikoPuppies -I looked at your citation - Chapter 16, Lotus Sutra, a(rather broad citation) and found it near the end of the verse section from the bottom the 24th through the 21st lines. I copied it exactly as it appeared, text hiccup and all:
"Those of you with wisdom,
Should not have doubts about this.
Cut them off entirely and forever,
For the Buddha�s words are real, not false."
I already knew where to look, but as fedrica is right. (and in this case, the enforcer)
Citing a book or a sutra or a chapter won't cut it. We need a bit more specifics there.
Peace to all
Thanks @Lionduck.
@KarikoPuppies, it's a general rule here that if you wish to cite a specific quotation, you do so, and give link, references and directions to source. The quote you gave, is a different one to the one in your link. Therefore, it is either your interpretation, or a different source.
The two, should be the same, and match.
Many thanks.
Thanks for letting me know that, I didn't know the rule, my apology to all : )
The quote I first copied was from my computer so I couldn't give you the link so I found the one on the internet but the slightly different translation, meaning should be the same.
(btw the chinese translation of the verse form of this chapter is so beautifully written)
The quote is from the Lotus Sutra chapter 16. Lifespan of the Tathagata.
He is revealing the truth about the buddha's life span.
Wishing you all a fabulous rest of the week.
thank you!
So you don't question anything?
If you're going to pick someone to not doubt, you could do worse than the Buddha.
hello Invincible summer!
otherwise you have to go prove things for yourself and you will not learn anything. One thing I can tell you is that I could not bear to live but through Buddha's teachings now I am well and happy. So I just want to thank to Buddha's teaching and him coming to Saha world for us. Wishing you a happy evening and thank you for asking me the question : )
Whenever I have questions about teachings I ask my teacher and he gives answers.
I don't doubt Buddha's existence nor truth about what he said ( he did reveal that his previous teachings were expedient means( that doesn't mean his teachings were lie, they were skillful means to let sentient beings enter the buddha way ).
And I would not go where people say his later teachings were made up, I do not even consider that as worth considering )
If anyone calls that a blind faith or whatever I don't know what to say because I cannot scientifically prove my experience or my faith. When you learn from a teacher you need to trust your teacher and I have good reason for it but cannot prove is what I can tell you for now
I think that sometimes westerners get so caught up in aversion to "blind faith" that they throw the baby out with the bathwater and resort to a kind of nihilistic ultra-scepticism.
The middle way is probably more useful here.
Indeed. I think one of the main problems in Western Buddhism is the arrogance towards faith and belief. And a sense of supremacy, kind of 'Buddhism is the religion for intellectuals'.
People can be intelligent and still believe in something. Our own cleverness is not the only refuge there is.
Generally by ignoring it.
How can you guys keep your cool when someone says something like Buddha may not have existed?
Generally by ignoring it
I think that is a great way to deal with it.(which I have hard time doing it...) Once I asked my teach what should I do if anyone talk bad about Buddha and he replied " Give them a big smile : ) "
Just reminded of an old Vulcan saying that Spock liked to say. Well, ok it was Ronald Reagan in reality.
"Trust but verify"
I think there's a difference between faith as in trusting through experience and blind faith though.
@KarikoPuppies talked about having blind faith but the kind of faith he/she talked about wasn't really blind faith because there is a teacher that demonstrates the qualities @KarikoPuppies is looking to embody.
Hug it out.
The historical Buddha never did exist .....(from his own side)
You can't control what other people say. Why get angry about it?