What would you give up?
Cinorjer
Veteran
There is one huge advantage that monks have that we lay people don't when trying to follow the Buddha's example. Monks begin by experiencing what it means to let go of the old in order to discover a new you. They let go of their old life of family and friends, take off their old clothes to put on a robe, and even cut off the hair so it's an entirely different person looking back at them in a mirror. That is a powerful experience that teaches them the lesson that who they are is not defined by family or status or looks. Whether or not they continue from an understanding of what the self is not, to what IS the nature of the self, is all up to them from that point. But, you have to admit they experience something most of us don't and that makes a difference.
As a lay Buddhist, you will experience losses in your life but to lose everything is usually unwanted, unannounced, and so full of tragedy that the pain swamps the experience. But, we can teach ourselves that important lesson that something once important to us, something we thought defined who we are and our understanding of the world...is nothing special at all.
It might be something as specific as giving up smoking, or watching television, or eating meat. It might be getting rid of a house full of stuff you've accumulated and cherish. Or, it might be examining one of your cherished beliefs that get in the way of your practice and finally throwing it into the emptiness trashcan.
In my case, I recently threw away my belief that my actions were going to make a difference in the world. The trouble with believing that is, it kept me focused on expectations, of looking for signs that my actions were making a difference. Trying to stop the suffering of the world is like trying to keep the tide from coming in. It's like pulling someone from a burning building only to see them turn around and run right back inside. Now, this letting go of expectations is not giving up. I help when I can, with what I have to give. Then I go on to the next situation and do the same. I don't go back and check to see if I left a series of happy endings behind me. That is a freedom I never had before, the freedom from expectations. I now expect people to be what they are and the world to be what it is, nothing more or less.
So what would you be willing to give up, to gain understanding in your practice? Or perhaps you have, willingly or not, given up something and I'd like to hear how it changed you. Buddha gave up a life of luxury and monks give up their hair, but it's the act of letting go that's important. And if it's something you can do, then why don't you?
Comments
Not sure if it's relevant or not, but the above reminds me a little of the following:
I heard the tale second hand of a young fellow who took it into his head to become a monk and pursue a more peaceful and perhaps enlightened life. He lived in New York City and he really was quite serious. So be began to give things up. He paid off his bills, quit his job, and bit by bit got rid of his possessions. Then, with his bank accounts and living quarters all-but denuded and the end of his lease coming due on the apartment, he boarded a bus and headed to a Buddhist center in New Jersey, where he knocked on the door.
A monk answered the door. The young man described all of his preparations and announced his desire to become a monk -- a more peaceful and perhaps enlightened being. And the first words out of the monk's mouth were....
"Get a job."
Do we really have to force ourselves to let things go? I understand that to engage ourselves in some sort of discipline may change us, but I think there is a more natural way to that. If you meditate long enough, your perspective will change, your priorities will change. Then, you will naturally begin to let things go... Feelings, possessions, attachments. Not because you want to get somewhere through this, but because you already understood that you don't need much to be well.
"Get a job..."
:-)
I don't know. I suppose there's a huge difference between letting go of something and having something taken from us, and that includes when we feel our practice is forcing us to do something. At what point, though, do we conclude we're just making excuses for not wanting to change? An interesting point I hadn't considered.
I'm giving up my music jams. ( See @lobster 's RIght Effort thread ).
@Rodrigo ... I agree. It's just easier said than done. For example, because of my busy life circumstances...it might be more realistic for me to be mindful about the music going in my ears than schedule more meditation time, that frankly, I just either don't have or bec my monkey/mommy mind tells me thats selfish. It sounds ok to me that it might happen the other way around.....Find something that calms my mind more....so then I can feel/think less about how more meditation for me impacts others.
Anyway...the two threads just came together for me....So...starting tomorrow morning, I won't turn on the radio in the car...or the one at my desk. At home in the evenings is when I think I'll incorporate chanting. ( Hubbie plays nothing but chants in the car...and it used to drive me nuts, hahahaha)...so yep...must be something there worth looking into.....
Of course we all give things up if the choice is made to see it that way. Eg. I give up an hour or so of social time with friends or with the Internet or whatever in order to do a little meditation practice. Or I give up buying a new suit when the rent is due.
But in a more habitual sense, I think that to the extent that practice becomes rooted, there is less need to "give things up" because those things tend to walk away all by themselves. It's not anything sexy or spiritual or holy or virtuous ... it's just what seems to happen. No need to yank teeth when they fall out all by themselves.
I would give up understanding!
I like what you said, @Cinorjer -- "In my case, I recently threw away my belief that my actions were going to make a difference in the world. The trouble with believing that is, it kept me focused on expectations, of looking for signs that my actions were making a difference. ... Now, this letting go of expectations is not giving up. I help when I can, with what I have to give....expect people to be what they are and the world to be what it is, nothing more or less," because that sounds a lot like me...and what I've done to alter my outlook about making the world better because I made a vow when I was young along those lines. In retrospect, I think I unconsciously/subconsciously thought there would be some sort of personal payoff - NOT!
So...I would give up trying too hard.
I had some issues last week at work, regarding my manager who promised to give me some training budget and forgot about it for two months after. It bothers me a lot that it keeps coming back to my mind this weekend.
Trying to keep reminding myself that I can't do anything now and need to enjoy my free time. It is a tough job to let go of some of things. Forgiving is surely not for the weak. Sorry if I sound whining.
A {hug} to @mmo -- give up whining?
Hard isn't it - yep. I think-whine all the time - slight exaggeration.
I would give up everything except ice-cream. So there.
But seriously, I have found myself leading an increasingly lifestyle and gradually letting go of what seems superfluous. That's partly because of Buddhist practice and partly because I'm a skinflint.
I have tons and tons of garbages in me ( mind & spirit & body ) and getting rid of them as much as possible through practice is one of the main goal of my life now. I am having hard time bc I am a very troubled soul to say the least but slowly but surely I am making a progress thanks to Buddha's teachings. My gratitude to Shakaymuni Buddha grows everyday. I am trying not to eat meat just to exercise a little bit of my endurance towards cravings at the moment, not sure how long I could go on
Also working on my bad temper. and other numerous bad habits, its not so easy!
I give up the so-called social media. Newbuddhist is the only forum I have followed for a long time now and I'm not in Facebook. The truth is somewhere else, for sure
.
Yes, I too give up Facebook some time back. Not purely because my will power is so strong, but because that is where my doomed first and only relationship started. I do like this forum, I checked it constantly and very active around here. I don't find any reason to give up my newbuddhist account.
"What would you give up?"
Attachment to a permanently abiding sense of self ...Well that's the overall plan
I wish I could give up my attachment to permanence.
Not quite to a sense of self, though it's probably implied in my attachment to my beloved ones, to the happy moments in life that I wish could last forever.
It is an ongoing plan, what I aim for in my practice.
Agreed. I've shared this before but thought it might be of interest again:
If we are walking a path, we grow. The lazy gardener under-waters and under-feeds. The eager gardener over-waters and over-feeds. There's probably a middle path that works...
You mean I have to give something up? Oh my!
Facebook is the spawn of the devil and should be avoided by all God-doubting Buddhists.
Nothing!
...And English gentlemen.
Here's what I gave up, and here's how it changed me:
I didn't give up my job deliberately, but the account closed. My company kept me. I spent some time traveling to different sites, and now I have a new permanent assignment at a new site. I never thought this would happen to me. I had a good job with a good company and was quite successful. Magnificent home in spectacularly beautiful Colorado, not too far from the stunning Great Stupa of Darmakaya. Incredible kids, family, friends, community activities. Now I'm in Indiana, by myself, in a very cheap one bedroom apartment, with a sleeping bag, a microwave, a guitar, and a recumbent tricycle. All new work, people, community. It'll be a couple months before my wife can join me. Kids aren't coming. Everything else is gone forever.
And I seem fine. Work is very busy, people are good. Area has some charm, even without the rugged beauty of Colorado. Inside I feel exactly the same. It's surprising to me how I still feel just like me. Cheerful, positive, tell jokes at work. And I'm not putting on a brave front. I really do feel just exactly the same.
Surprising. I fully expected this to be sad, miserable, but endurable. But through no conscious effort of my own, I feel just fine. Life is good.
The impermanence of everything can hit us over the head sometimes. Do you feel your Buddhist beliefs and practice have made a difference in how you are dealing with this change in your life?
Not such a hardcore and evil thing! It's only a display window where people are in sheep's clothes. Mmm...
@Cinorjer Sometimes the quote feature doesn't work for me - this is one of those times, hence the formatting.
I'm left with all sorts of questions after reading your post; the same questions I've asked myself on many occasions.
In order to try and stop the suffering in the world, it is helpful to know what the cause or root of the worlds suffering is. It's a Buddhist forum so I've no doubt that we all share a pretty similar view about the cause of suffering... how can I stop anyone's suffering? It's an inside job. And yet, how does a caring individual walk away and not try to perform first aid on someone's suffering.
Worse, there is no one who enriches my life who has not had more than their fair share of suffering. I couldn't pick a Kardashian or pop star of your choice out of a line up, but I've no doubt that if my life had gone as free from suffering as those who love me might have wished for then I would still be fast asleep. We wake from nightmares, not pleasant dreams. I cannot bring myself to wish nightmares on others, but it is what woke me.
Well yes. That and everything.
"What would you give up?"
A soul......(If I had one to give up that is
)
Searching all directions
with one’s awareness,
one finds no one dearer
than oneself.
In the same way, others
are fiercely dear to themselves.
So one should not hurt others
if one loves oneself.
'Real Buddha quote'
http://fakebuddhaquotes.com/you-yourself-as-much-as-anybody-in-the-entire-universe-deserve-your-love-and-affection/
We really have to address our path before having the capacity to help. Most people here I would suggest are empathic and altruistic. It is no great achievement to be a decent human being UNLESS one has been so severely damaged that this is not part of ones capacity ...
Part of the reason for me giving up 'nothing' is to rather take on board, absorb and implement the teachings ... rather than trying to change or improve my life or others ... that improvement I feel is a by product not a reason to practice ...
... and now back to the give away festival ...
Probably, but not quite in the way I'd have expected. I don't consciously lean on it in a "Let Jesus take the pain" type of transference. I just find that I'm OK. It surprises me, but I'm fine. Looking back, it's probably a combination of mindfulness, meditation, and just having gotten older and wiser.
Try LinkedIn... at least even if we do not find truth there, we can at least get a job requirement listing post.
really? i got the below posts from FB:
http://www.powerofpositivity.com/10-signs-youre-making-life-harder-than-it-has-to-be/
http://www.powerofpositivity.com/11-important-life-lessons-can-learn-wayne-dyer/
http://www.viralalternativenews.com/2015/08/the-tragic-yet-uplifting-story-of-keanu.html
http://thousandthoughts.org/2015/08/22/the-samurai-and-the-monk/
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/nov/03/ten-easy-steps-that-will-make-you-a-happier-person?CMP=share_btn_fb
http://themindunleashed.org/2015/01/11-fantastic-pieces-advice-kung-fu-master-bruce-lee-brilliant-outlook-life.html
I gave up my sanity. Got nothing in return.
"We can't even give up our problems"
Was said in a song that was one the radio a moment ago. In one verse the word 'problems' was replaced with 'stupidity'. Dang those hidden Buddhists!
I dropped off my oldest son at college and drove away. Hardest thing I've done so far, even harder than telling my children that their father had died. I always knew letting go was part of (a major part of) the job description of "parent." But I was surprised at what I had to let go of, things I did not expect. I knew I would have to let him go, to let him spread his wings and be his own person. That is what parenting builds to, after all. It's the entirety of what we prepare for for 18 or so years.
Letting go, however, of his place in our family and in our home has been much harder. Letting go of the idea of his place in our family and lives. Realizing that even when he comes home to visit, even when he is home in the summer, even if he comes home for a while if something doesn't work out-it will never be the same. He will never be home in the same capacity as he was before I left him crying in his dorm room. And that realization, that level of letting go has been incredibly hard. And it was totally unexpected.
@karasti said " He will never be home in the same capacity as he was before I left him crying in his dorm room. And that realization, that level of letting go has been incredibly hard. And it was totally unexpected."
{hug} As hard as that was, that phrase just hit me, "...he will never be home in the same capacity..." I recognized as a sort of mini-death - but one day, you will feel like a real champ for recognizing that phase in his life - that you did a great job of raising him, I think.
Only thing worth giving up is attachment to things....
Although I could devote my life for practice and would like to someday, unfortunately if I were to do it now, it would change the lives of those who are dependent on me too drastically. I'm sure there are others who are in the same boat. It has not been that bad a ride so far. I'm thankful for that.
^^^ Bravo @namarupa the first thing we find worth giving up ... is 'giving up'. I have met quite a few 'greedy for enlightenment' run to the Himalayan cave ignorant misfits, duty abandoners who are still struggling to realise the route of their attachments ...
Greed for progress is still greed. Funny that ... or maybe not ...
some more posts from Facebook, which i found today:
http://themindunleashed.org/2015/09/meet-kazim-gurbuz-a-95-year-old-yogi-from-turkey-who-looks-half-his-age.html
http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-20677/a-92-year-old-yogi-shares-her-secrets-to-happiness-longevity.html
http://www.doyouyoga.com/104-year-old-yogi-still-teaching-and-thriving-42987/
hope somebody would find something insightful in above web-pages.
have you ever tried to live on one meal a day (giving up other meals)?
it is the best thing to check how strong your giving up ability?
i tried several times but i couldn't, i failed
i have tried once for fasting. what i did was on one day, i thought the next day i will keep fast. so i ate dinner at around 10pm that day, next day morning when i woke up, i thought that since i am thinking of having fast today, so i will not eat anything today(usually when people keep fast, they eat fruits, potatoes etc, but i thought to not eat anything), i kept at it, but by evening 4pm, my wife was pressurizing me too much to eat something, but i kept changing the topic of discussion. finally around 8pm, my wife started driving me crazy for making me eat, so around 9pm i finally gave up and then had some food, but i was drinking water and tea through out the day.
Well....I'm a couple days in of giving up my car and desk music. Its.....different. Hahaha....but yesterday on the way home I noticed how much like sitting it was. The quiet is awkard at first...then my mind is having a thousand thoughts.....then...by the time I pulled in the driveway my mind was pretty quiet. I wasn't amped up or anything. Hmmmm????? Its getting interesting....to be cont.......
A wise teacher once told me "There is no such thing as will power. There is only sufficient motivation." I think that holds true for anything we are trying to give up that we desire.
I know a guy who keeps track of everything he's "given up" and then makes a point to tell people "I don't believe in that, I've given that up." Like, when we were having discussions on how to help people with mental illness, he said he gave up believing in therapy and even mental illness. Then he lectured the rest of us for believing in such things. It was odd. I don't think he's quite gotten the idea of letting go or giving up things
I've never really felt a need to make a concentrated effort to give up something, in terms of letting go of attachment in a Buddhist sense. It just happens when I am ready. I don't think I've ever said "Ok, as part of my Buddhist practice, today I will give up video games." I might think about my attachment to various things and consider how I can lessen that attachment but it's not really a logical process for me.
"Don't desire to give up more desire than you can, and if you find that a problem, don't desire to be successful in giving up more desire than you can!" "The Middle Way"
If a devout Buddhist monk practicing in a war torn area were captured and held in a concentration camp, would his life cease to be devoted to his practice? What of a lay follower who was captured and held by circumstance and commitment?
I have tried that and much more. And succeeded. Eventually I determined that my success was a measure of the strength of my ego. I mean, how spiritual must I be to have accomplished that, eh? My motivation, unknown to me at the time, was to nurture the self.
I'm not giving up my jams all together.... I love music too much...
. but because I commute about 40 mins each way a day....it's interesting to watch how it impacts my mentality and thoughts for the next place of responsibility. I'm doing retreat time frame....hahaha.
Well said @Rodrigo
Most of us equate a change of interior emphasis, mind moved to other areas as giving up. In fact it is take up, installing different but ultimately useless attachments.
Unfortunately many of us have to go along with this charade because our falsity is so embedded. In other words we have to first be in good company, studied the dharma and been grabbed by the Buddhas (so to speak).
It is always time to meditate and time is always available, yet it may take longer than required to realise ...
If the practice doesn't experiencing difficulty, there is no need to give up something. I was taught that only when things are not smooth, then we could evaluate what it is that we could give up for the practice.
There are things we should give up, but can't;
there are things we can give up but won't.
There are things we are willing to give up - but they just won't lie down and die!!
There are things we willingly give up joyfully - but the damn things keep coming back.
We spend our entire lives either running from, or running to....
I think we should just stop trying to give up, and give up, gracefully, by dropping everything within.
Then everything without, can take care of itself.....
So....is anyone else trying this experiment right now? I'm starting to feel like a rhino....the deep quotes and sayings are nice...but I'm not sure Monks and Nuns would agree its the point of the OP.
Anyway.....other than when I gave up smoking cigs and ganja...this has been the next big give up thats teaching me some stuff. I'll admit....I'm a little jealous if it happens for everyone here like you guys are implying....." oh....it just falls to the waistside...that's how it's supposed to be".
Maybe facing the uncomfortable and different patterns is what is needed for me..or not...only one way to find out.....