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In Vietnam we dropped a staggering amount of bombs but it was not a successful strategy. They dropped 7 million tons of bombs in the Vietnam war! A ton is 907 kilograms or 2000 pounds.
@federica said:
Terrorism succeeds because of propaganda, division and fear.
They purport to be responsible, directly, for every attempt or attack, even though they may not have sanctioned, funded or planned it at all; This makes them appear a lot more widespread and powerful than they really are;
They WANT everyone to be suspicious of any man with an olive-coloured skin, or any woman wearing a niqab or veil;
They want you to be fearful, watchful, paranoid and suspicious.
That is the basis of their campaign.
if they can get you to fear, hate and suspect EVERY Muslim, this is precisely the division they're aiming for.
@genkaku said: [on blog link]
I can't pretend to have answers with the application of my preferred Band-Aids. Band-Aids are just an application that seem to allow me to be less confused, less sad, less horror-stricken without edges. I want a bow to put on this horrific present, a conclusion that will allow me to go more easily into the kitchen and make breakfast.
Yum breakfast. Sheer luxury.
Here is the complete thoughtful breakfast blog read for those that are busy burning their toast. Cheers ...
Here, sure, we can call them Islamic Terrorists because we know what we are talking about. There are already enough ignorant asshats in the world that think all of Islam is terror-based. We don't need to add to that ignorance by using confusing terms.
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited November 2015
Ok, let's calm it down people.
This is a strongly emotive subject, and everyone is bound to have an opinion, view and perception based on personal experience, analysis or accumulated information.
I have had close connections with Muslims, all of whom have been nice, kind, generous, normal people.
WHen I first married, one of my bridesmaids was Muslim. Her family attended my wedding, and Mushtaq, her father, declared himself both proud and privileged to have been involved, and invited.
When our Best Man proposed the toast to the Bride and Groom, he was the first to stand, ready with his glass raised ( containing a small measure of Champagne) to respond.
He, his wife and the two of his 3 sons able to attend, looked smart, marvellous and were extremely respectful throughout.
My Husband ad I had a Roman Catholic Nuptial Mass.
That meant a wedding service incorporating the ceremony of a full church mass.
Mushtaq and his family, sitting behind my parents, followed the service closely, and my mother would turn at times and quietly explain what was going on.
On returning from honeymoon, the family invited us round to their home, for a wonderful feast.
Mushtaq would occasionally have long theological discussions with my father.
My father was not a seriously devout, religious dedicated Christian, but he had studied the Bible closely, by way of literary and historical interest. He adored the lyrical and poetic language of the King James' version.
He and Mushtaq would sit with their respective drinks - Mushtaq did not as a rule, take alcohol - and discuss theology from their respective PoVs.
Mushtaq was quite the dedicated Muslim. He attended a Mosque, regularly, and event though he was a uniformed Bus driver, would always change into his more familiar pakistani clothes once home. His wife always wore a sari. His daughter (my bridesmaid) gave me many pairs of traditional pyjamas (actually day wear) which I wore to death, so comfortable were they.
So he knew his stuff. And sure enough he would talk about Islamic attitudes towards those who were not followers of Islam or Muhammed.
And he insisted such times and attitudes were past, figurative and not indicative of current Muslim thought. No self-respecting, law-abiding Muslim would truly believe that infidels should be beheaded. Such attitudes, while accurate, if one adhered to the Letter of the Qu'ran, would be unthinkable, uncivilised and hostile.
That was then.
This is now.
ISIS represents Islam.
But it represents it in a way that had they their way, would return us all to a state of living in the dim, distant and historical primitive, uncivilised and barbaric past.
So make no mistake: I would venture to suggest that Muslims - law-abiding, devout, dedicated honest, wholesome Muslims - are living in a state of personal confusion, terror and fear, themselves.
Because while they may adhere to the Qu'ran in ways which conform, comply and combine with living in a society in modern age, require, ISIS is adhering to the very primal intention of The Word.
And I would think this scares the crap out of them.
Because that, when all is said and done, is what Muslims are"literally" meant to do.
Follow the letter of The Word.
And this places them in a position they really, honestly would rather not be in.
So while we have every right to roundly condemn and vilify ISIS, we need to demonstrate compassion for those Muslims who really would rather be left alone and out of it to carry on with their everyday, ordinary simple lives.
I wonder what a world with Christians who followed only the Old Testament to the letter would be like. Much like ISIS, it seems. Interesting.
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
@karasti said:
I wonder what a world with Christians who followed only the Old Testament to the letter would be like. Much like ISIS, it seems. Interesting.
I always thought it was odd that Christians of any kind would even tack their books onto the Tanakh because the way of Jesus seems quite far removed from Abrahams deity.
Reading between the lines I doubt very highly Jesus had faith in Abrahams vision. People say Jesus was Jewish but in my eyes it takes more than your mother being of a certain mind to make you take her religion. I think you'd actually have to believe and Jesus didn't seem to.
I don't know... We can say that there is a faction or two within Buddhism that kill over these things but I'd like to see the sutta/sutra/discourse where Buddha calls on his students to kill non-Buddhists or any Buddhist teaching that deals with how to terrorize.
It's in the Bible and it's in the Quran even if it's contradicted elsewhere in the same book.
Your last post was good and informative. It is the kind of dialog I have been long seeking. But as I know no Muslims, aside from one person online, I have not been able to discuss current interpretations of scripture. Even the one person I know, has so far refused to discuss it. I am not sure what to think about it all anymore.
I have a bit of a confession. Recently, I have begun to lose my balance on this issue.
Are they truly peaceful, or lying to pass the time until they can seize control? No need to answer as I do not think it can be answered. It comes down to a matter of trust.
However, there is the issue of Democracy, which most in the Western world feel is the best we have, though not perfect. A global enlightenment could bring about a self-governing people. But that time is not now.
Assuming people believe in Democracy, then they accept that the majority will rule. If the Muslim population reaches a point where they are the vast majority, and decides to act upon Jihad, then how can we argue? Democracy is then on their side, as the majority.
So on the one hand, I am unsure about their intent. On the other, does it matter, given we are democratic?
While I do not harbor hate, it important to be aware of possibilities, and I believe the concerns are justified and rational, whether correct or not.
Some perspective, direction, and / or advice would be helpful here.
Thanks.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
And here, you demonstrate one fundamental flaw in your understanding: (Not a jibe, I assure you. I'm sure the misunderstanding is both unintentional and natural....)
We currently live in a Democratic society.
Muslims do not live their lives according to democratic rule, in an Islamic/Muslim society.
If Muslims become the powerful majority, we can forget democracy.
As one young man pointed out to me in the past:
"We don't need to conquer you by force, necessarily.
We're just happy to out-breed you and ultimately, outnumber you."
And once - and if - they do that, THEN we will have to consider what it will be like for US to live in their world.
No offense taken. That's my point though. If the situation described above happens, regardless of how the Muslims would view it, "we" would still be democratic, and thusly have to bow to their law and become refugees ourselves in another country.
The thing is, and this is where my real problem lays: I do not think I could accept that, and I do not believe most American would either.
The face of the world has seen many changes since the dawn of humanity (more times than most people think). So it is not unheard of, nor is something to fear specifically. But we have to take each change as it comes, and this one, I fear, is too late to stop.
I hope I am wrong, but I see a great civil war approaching in the US between Muslims, non-Muslims and what is left of our government.
Best estimates put Muslims at more than 1.5 billion. If they wanted to take over the world, they wouldn't have to lay in wait for everything. They are the religious majority now.
Most of them are just people. Some have messed up ideas about where they religion should go. Christians, Buddhists, Muslims-all religions have those people. But they are just everyday people for the most part, wanting to live a life and be happy and raise their families like anyone else. In fact their attitude (the ones I know, both in person and online) is better than "ours" in that they truly feel an obligation to give back to those who help them. One of my friends immigrated from Gaza when he was a teenager. He now does quite well for himself, is married, has kids. Is a wonderful father. He puts more than 20% of his income back into the charities of various types and volunteers his time as well. Many of them that I know are the same.
We fear most that which we don't understand, and that is absolutely true. Put yourself out there and get to know some. You might think you don't have any near you, but chances are you do. I live in the sticks in northern Minnesota, and even I know Muslims.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@karasti said:
Best estimates put Muslims at more than 1.5 billion. If they wanted to take over the world, they wouldn't have to lay in wait for everything. They are the religious majority now.
Most of them are just people. Some have messed up ideas about where they religion should go. Christians, Buddhists, Muslims-all religions have those people. But they are just everyday people for the most part, wanting to live a life and be happy and raise their families like anyone else. In fact their attitude (the ones I know, both in person and online) is better than "ours" in that they truly feel an obligation to give back to those who help them. One of my friends immigrated from Gaza when he was a teenager. He now does quite well for himself, is married, has kids. Is a wonderful father. He puts more than 20% of his income back into the charities of various types and volunteers his time as well. Many of them that I know are the same.
We fear most that which we don't understand, and that is absolutely true. Put yourself out there and get to know some. You might think you don't have any near you, but chances are you do. I live in the sticks in northern Minnesota, and even I know Muslims.
I understand all that, intellectually. But if this is the case, then somebody should globally reform the text of their scriptures or something because as long as the excuse clauses are in there, it is a loop-hole for violence.
Yes, all religions have some measure to allow for self-protection and oppression, but Islam (at least the current text) goes further by also allowing for extermination. It is like a dormant virus, at present.
Someone would have to claim the head of the Islamic world for that to happen. To my knowledge, they do not have Popes or Lamas or other charged with that sort of job. I think reform is necessary and I think it will come. But people are not able to start thinking about that stuff until their lives are stable and perhaps continuing to get more of them out of the volatile Middle East can help that to happen. People living in fear and poverty are not people who can start to think about taking charge of such a thing. Not that all Muslims are poor, by any means. But living where they do, their lives are more volatile than stable, I think. Much more than most of us can relate to.
I do not know Bible history well. What point in history did the churches and people start look past the barbarism in the OT? Some of course still hang on it to to make arguments about gay people and other things. But overall most people recognize it is mostly a part of their text better left in the past. What helped them arrive there, and is there anything that can be done to help Islam get to that point?
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I do not know Bible history well. What point in history did the churches and people start look past the barbarism in the OT? Some of course still hang on it to to make arguments about gay people and other things. But overall most people recognize it is mostly a part of their text better left in the past. What helped them arrive there, and is there anything that can be done to help Islam get to that point?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the best way is for them to be shown compassion and friendship by people the books call their enemy.
Are they truly peaceful, or lying to pass the time until they can seize control? No need to answer as I do not think it can be answered. It comes down to a matter of trust [...]
Some perspective, direction, and / or advice would be helpful here.
Thanks.
You really think that the rest of the Muslim world is just waiting for the right moment to strike and take over the world?
@ourself well, yes on the compassion and such. I meant what as society can we do to help them along, if anything. But yes, education and experience is important to break out of our personal prisons, which is why I wonder if having more of them coming to westernized countries is going to move Islam in a different direction. Buddhism has taken on it's own differences as it has become westernized. It seems that Islam will do the same, most likely.
@Invincible_summer I want to believe them at the word. But it is hard when the scripture they support say otherwise. I can not make that leap. If you can, then by all means, bring about change.
@how said:
My response to it today is organizing my basement to offer incoming Syrian refugees a place to live.
Physically, I had a very difficult day today. Throughout the day though I tried to be mindful and not give all my power away to the pain. I kept looking for a positive thought that I could nurture. Again and again I remembered this post and it never failed to bring a smile. Thank you very much for sharing this.
Terrorism is a sign of being out of options. If you can’t mobilize a protest-demonstration, if you can’t win the public debate and if you don’t have an army that will enforce your demands what can you do?
You go out and kill civilians.
I believe Al Qaida tried fighting an American battle ship with a rubber boat first. That didn’t look like they were winning so they thought of something else.
I think it is important to see a terrorist attack, not as a success (for Isis in this case) but for what it really is; the desperate and futile act of the losing side in the conflict.
The best approach would be to just ignore it. Spree-killers do what do for fame and glory. If we deny it to them they will be just pathetic. Terrorists and spree-killers are pathetic. Their destructiveness is their desperate attempt of hiding their failure in life.
The worst approach is following the example of deliberately killing civilians. It turns the whole idea of killing civilians into a way of settling a conflict. It supplies the terrorist attack with a justification after the event.
Buddhists in Vietnam – by the way – had another answer to the first question; what to do when you’re out of options. They chose self-immolation. That was their ultimate demonstration of love and despair. I would like to suggest it to radical imams. When you’re such a fanatic; make the sacrifice for yourself.
Terrorism is about control through fear. The people may be desperate, true, but it is often also a result of a lack of a lot of things, especially education and a life lived in poverty and in war. It completely changes the mindset of people and some will start to see the side of their "captors" just as with people who are kidnapped and may live a life with their captors after being brainwashed with their story.
Mass murderers may seek fame and fortune but most of them have mental illness that complicates matters quite a lot.
I don't know how much Daesh and Al Qaeda care if they make the news. They seek to terrorize and to make others bow to them. It's much more than simply fame.
I wonder what they think would happen if they controlled the world. Say they killed all their enemies and the rest surrendered to them. Then what? What would they do if they aren't hating the infidels and blowing people up? I wonder what kind of society they envision with them in charge.
I'm finding that the discussion about what terrorism is, is leaving me with a measure of discomfort for the truth. I am not suggesting that I know what the truth is, but it doesn't seem to be getting a fair shake.
England referred to the American colonists as terrorists. Hiding behind rocks and trees to shoot civilized folks who had the decency to march in lines wearing bright colors was the height of terrorism. But, of course, England had the most powerful military in the world and America was weak. England was well outfitted and the colonists were on a shoestring budget using hand me down rifles. The colonists could not have fought England toe-to toe as it were; they would have been annihilated. So they fought in a manner as to negate the English advantage.
How would a small, relatively underfunded group wage war against the most powerful military in the world today? I'm not a proponent of war, of course, but there is little doubt that the United States has become a bully. They hold all the cards. I realize attacking civilians is considered bad form, but the US military has killed more civilians accidentally wielding it's broad sword, than these groups we call radical have while targeting civilians. What civilized manner do they have at their disposal that gives them a chance at the kind of inroads they have made fighting uncivilized?
I'd never argue the US isn't a bully. But I do not think Daesh/ISIS is as underfunded as we think. Plus they have a lot of our weapons, vehicles, tanks and so on that they procured from Syria and Iraq when people ran. Not comparable to the US by any means, of course. If the US held all the cards truly, we wouldn't be passing bills in record time to make nonsensical decisions to refuse refugees in order to prevent a single ISIS person from sneaking in (despite the fact they are most likely already here). We wouldn't be so utterly terrified that so many people are using Jesus as a reason to refuse people in dire need, who risk death without help. Americans are terrified right now, and despite our military, ISIS has a lot of power over us. Because they are unknown. They can be anyone. All the things we love to do now feel unsafe-concerts, sporting events, large gatherings, etc. They are desperate but smart, and with nothing to lose, and us clinging the way we do to everything, I think they hold more cards psychologically than we want to admit.
5
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Every religion might have created social issues but in todays world most people are ready to leave past and waiting for world harmony.
But i have observed that muslims are not ready to accept presence of other faiths. Therefore they try to flosrish fundamentalism. In addition to that there are options are growing for petrol and dominance of arab is slowly vanishing due to that. Florishing islam is the one kind of investment for ruling community of muslims in future.
One of fb freind used to glorify that only islam is right beyond any other religion with some opinions. He is pathan and pathans in indian subcontinent treats self as rulers and keeps distance with others. After frustation due to unemployement he went to saudi arabia. Being considered from ruling community of pathan he did not get the same treatment from saudi arabean people. Because they consider far superior than others muslims specially asians like pakistan. Finally he came back to India and started to preach that saudi are not.following islam but in practice people like him practice inequality as well.
Take an example in india muslims are allowed.to live in majority hindues but Jeena who partioned india and made seperate country for muslims. He also threatened riots to fulfill his wish in 1947. Afterwards pakistan inclined to Usa and indian pm decided to.live in non alignment. During this process pakistan floriahed terrorism in india based on islam but usa supported.pakistan.
When usa was attacking iraq onn fake basis of nuclear and biological weapons then it was reaponsibility of Europe and other reaponsible countries to oppose it but they did not.Now we can see that only europe has to pay prise with muslim immigrants in there countries which would ask for partition based on religion in coming years, most probslby not because europeans having very less growth rate.
For muslims it is taught through qoran that islam is ultimate religion and others are kafirs.
Comments
In Vietnam we dropped a staggering amount of bombs but it was not a successful strategy. They dropped 7 million tons of bombs in the Vietnam war! A ton is 907 kilograms or 2000 pounds.
http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_tons_of_bomb_were_dropped_in_Vietnam_War
More excuses. Anything but admit the problem is Islamic terrorism. Political correctness gone mad.
Correct - divide and conquer!
Yum breakfast. Sheer luxury.
Here is the complete thoughtful breakfast blog read for those that are busy burning their toast. Cheers ...
Here, sure, we can call them Islamic Terrorists because we know what we are talking about. There are already enough ignorant asshats in the world that think all of Islam is terror-based. We don't need to add to that ignorance by using confusing terms.
Ok Donald.
Duck or trump?
Pick one
Ok, let's calm it down people.
This is a strongly emotive subject, and everyone is bound to have an opinion, view and perception based on personal experience, analysis or accumulated information.
I have had close connections with Muslims, all of whom have been nice, kind, generous, normal people.
WHen I first married, one of my bridesmaids was Muslim. Her family attended my wedding, and Mushtaq, her father, declared himself both proud and privileged to have been involved, and invited.
When our Best Man proposed the toast to the Bride and Groom, he was the first to stand, ready with his glass raised ( containing a small measure of Champagne) to respond.
He, his wife and the two of his 3 sons able to attend, looked smart, marvellous and were extremely respectful throughout.
My Husband ad I had a Roman Catholic Nuptial Mass.
That meant a wedding service incorporating the ceremony of a full church mass.
Mushtaq and his family, sitting behind my parents, followed the service closely, and my mother would turn at times and quietly explain what was going on.
On returning from honeymoon, the family invited us round to their home, for a wonderful feast.
Mushtaq would occasionally have long theological discussions with my father.
My father was not a seriously devout, religious dedicated Christian, but he had studied the Bible closely, by way of literary and historical interest. He adored the lyrical and poetic language of the King James' version.
He and Mushtaq would sit with their respective drinks - Mushtaq did not as a rule, take alcohol - and discuss theology from their respective PoVs.
Mushtaq was quite the dedicated Muslim. He attended a Mosque, regularly, and event though he was a uniformed Bus driver, would always change into his more familiar pakistani clothes once home. His wife always wore a sari. His daughter (my bridesmaid) gave me many pairs of traditional pyjamas (actually day wear) which I wore to death, so comfortable were they.
So he knew his stuff. And sure enough he would talk about Islamic attitudes towards those who were not followers of Islam or Muhammed.
And he insisted such times and attitudes were past, figurative and not indicative of current Muslim thought. No self-respecting, law-abiding Muslim would truly believe that infidels should be beheaded. Such attitudes, while accurate, if one adhered to the Letter of the Qu'ran, would be unthinkable, uncivilised and hostile.
That was then.
This is now.
ISIS represents Islam.
But it represents it in a way that had they their way, would return us all to a state of living in the dim, distant and historical primitive, uncivilised and barbaric past.
So make no mistake: I would venture to suggest that Muslims - law-abiding, devout, dedicated honest, wholesome Muslims - are living in a state of personal confusion, terror and fear, themselves.
Because while they may adhere to the Qu'ran in ways which conform, comply and combine with living in a society in modern age, require, ISIS is adhering to the very primal intention of The Word.
And I would think this scares the crap out of them.
Because that, when all is said and done, is what Muslims are"literally" meant to do.
Follow the letter of The Word.
And this places them in a position they really, honestly would rather not be in.
So while we have every right to roundly condemn and vilify ISIS, we need to demonstrate compassion for those Muslims who really would rather be left alone and out of it to carry on with their everyday, ordinary simple lives.
You mean we are not allowed to hate anymore?
Seems a little extreme 
http://yinyana.tumblr.com/post/37828256797/click-for-a-bit-of-light-relief
Here is some info on the jihad for those who wish to lose their heads instead ...
http://islam.uga.edu/jihad.html
I wonder what a world with Christians who followed only the Old Testament to the letter would be like. Much like ISIS, it seems. Interesting.
I always thought it was odd that Christians of any kind would even tack their books onto the Tanakh because the way of Jesus seems quite far removed from Abrahams deity.
Reading between the lines I doubt very highly Jesus had faith in Abrahams vision. People say Jesus was Jewish but in my eyes it takes more than your mother being of a certain mind to make you take her religion. I think you'd actually have to believe and Jesus didn't seem to.
I don't know... We can say that there is a faction or two within Buddhism that kill over these things but I'd like to see the sutta/sutra/discourse where Buddha calls on his students to kill non-Buddhists or any Buddhist teaching that deals with how to terrorize.
It's in the Bible and it's in the Quran even if it's contradicted elsewhere in the same book.
@federica
Your last post was good and informative. It is the kind of dialog I have been long seeking. But as I know no Muslims, aside from one person online, I have not been able to discuss current interpretations of scripture. Even the one person I know, has so far refused to discuss it. I am not sure what to think about it all anymore.
I have a bit of a confession. Recently, I have begun to lose my balance on this issue.
Are they truly peaceful, or lying to pass the time until they can seize control? No need to answer as I do not think it can be answered. It comes down to a matter of trust.
However, there is the issue of Democracy, which most in the Western world feel is the best we have, though not perfect. A global enlightenment could bring about a self-governing people. But that time is not now.
Assuming people believe in Democracy, then they accept that the majority will rule. If the Muslim population reaches a point where they are the vast majority, and decides to act upon Jihad, then how can we argue? Democracy is then on their side, as the majority.
So on the one hand, I am unsure about their intent. On the other, does it matter, given we are democratic?
While I do not harbor hate, it important to be aware of possibilities, and I believe the concerns are justified and rational, whether correct or not.
Some perspective, direction, and / or advice would be helpful here.
Thanks.
And here, you demonstrate one fundamental flaw in your understanding: (Not a jibe, I assure you. I'm sure the misunderstanding is both unintentional and natural....)
We currently live in a Democratic society.
Muslims do not live their lives according to democratic rule, in an Islamic/Muslim society.
If Muslims become the powerful majority, we can forget democracy.
As one young man pointed out to me in the past:
"We don't need to conquer you by force, necessarily.
We're just happy to out-breed you and ultimately, outnumber you."
And once - and if - they do that, THEN we will have to consider what it will be like for US to live in their world.
@federica
No offense taken. That's my point though. If the situation described above happens, regardless of how the Muslims would view it, "we" would still be democratic, and thusly have to bow to their law and become refugees ourselves in another country.
The thing is, and this is where my real problem lays: I do not think I could accept that, and I do not believe most American would either.
The face of the world has seen many changes since the dawn of humanity (more times than most people think). So it is not unheard of, nor is something to fear specifically. But we have to take each change as it comes, and this one, I fear, is too late to stop.
I hope I am wrong, but I see a great civil war approaching in the US between Muslims, non-Muslims and what is left of our government.
That is not a world in which I wish to live.
Best estimates put Muslims at more than 1.5 billion. If they wanted to take over the world, they wouldn't have to lay in wait for everything. They are the religious majority now.
Most of them are just people. Some have messed up ideas about where they religion should go. Christians, Buddhists, Muslims-all religions have those people. But they are just everyday people for the most part, wanting to live a life and be happy and raise their families like anyone else. In fact their attitude (the ones I know, both in person and online) is better than "ours" in that they truly feel an obligation to give back to those who help them. One of my friends immigrated from Gaza when he was a teenager. He now does quite well for himself, is married, has kids. Is a wonderful father. He puts more than 20% of his income back into the charities of various types and volunteers his time as well. Many of them that I know are the same.
We fear most that which we don't understand, and that is absolutely true. Put yourself out there and get to know some. You might think you don't have any near you, but chances are you do. I live in the sticks in northern Minnesota, and even I know Muslims.
Makes sense....
I understand all that, intellectually. But if this is the case, then somebody should globally reform the text of their scriptures or something because as long as the excuse clauses are in there, it is a loop-hole for violence.
Yes, all religions have some measure to allow for self-protection and oppression, but Islam (at least the current text) goes further by also allowing for extermination. It is like a dormant virus, at present.
Someone would have to claim the head of the Islamic world for that to happen. To my knowledge, they do not have Popes or Lamas or other charged with that sort of job. I think reform is necessary and I think it will come. But people are not able to start thinking about that stuff until their lives are stable and perhaps continuing to get more of them out of the volatile Middle East can help that to happen. People living in fear and poverty are not people who can start to think about taking charge of such a thing. Not that all Muslims are poor, by any means. But living where they do, their lives are more volatile than stable, I think. Much more than most of us can relate to.
I do not know Bible history well. What point in history did the churches and people start look past the barbarism in the OT? Some of course still hang on it to to make arguments about gay people and other things. But overall most people recognize it is mostly a part of their text better left in the past. What helped them arrive there, and is there anything that can be done to help Islam get to that point?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the best way is for them to be shown compassion and friendship by people the books call their enemy.
That and a modernized education.
You really think that the rest of the Muslim world is just waiting for the right moment to strike and take over the world?
Some perspective: they aren't.
@ourself well, yes on the compassion and such. I meant what as society can we do to help them along, if anything. But yes, education and experience is important to break out of our personal prisons, which is why I wonder if having more of them coming to westernized countries is going to move Islam in a different direction. Buddhism has taken on it's own differences as it has become westernized. It seems that Islam will do the same, most likely.
@Invincible_summer I want to believe them at the word. But it is hard when the scripture they support say otherwise. I can not make that leap. If you can, then by all means, bring about change.
Physically, I had a very difficult day today. Throughout the day though I tried to be mindful and not give all my power away to the pain. I kept looking for a positive thought that I could nurture. Again and again I remembered this post and it never failed to bring a smile. Thank you very much for sharing this.
Terrorism is a sign of being out of options. If you can’t mobilize a protest-demonstration, if you can’t win the public debate and if you don’t have an army that will enforce your demands what can you do?
You go out and kill civilians.
I believe Al Qaida tried fighting an American battle ship with a rubber boat first. That didn’t look like they were winning so they thought of something else.
I think it is important to see a terrorist attack, not as a success (for Isis in this case) but for what it really is; the desperate and futile act of the losing side in the conflict.
The best approach would be to just ignore it. Spree-killers do what do for fame and glory. If we deny it to them they will be just pathetic. Terrorists and spree-killers are pathetic. Their destructiveness is their desperate attempt of hiding their failure in life.
The worst approach is following the example of deliberately killing civilians. It turns the whole idea of killing civilians into a way of settling a conflict. It supplies the terrorist attack with a justification after the event.
Buddhists in Vietnam – by the way – had another answer to the first question; what to do when you’re out of options. They chose self-immolation. That was their ultimate demonstration of love and despair. I would like to suggest it to radical imams. When you’re such a fanatic; make the sacrifice for yourself.
For your info:
The Jains, a sort of complementary contemporary influence on Buddhism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Jainism
have their own ahimsa 'suicide' squad, not to be confused with this crack team ... The Judean Peoples Front ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallekhana
Live long and prosper
A book cannot make you a terrorist. Circumstances do. No one reads a book and says, 'hey thats a great idea, let me blow things up tomorrow."
Terrorism is about control through fear. The people may be desperate, true, but it is often also a result of a lack of a lot of things, especially education and a life lived in poverty and in war. It completely changes the mindset of people and some will start to see the side of their "captors" just as with people who are kidnapped and may live a life with their captors after being brainwashed with their story.
Mass murderers may seek fame and fortune but most of them have mental illness that complicates matters quite a lot.
I don't know how much Daesh and Al Qaeda care if they make the news. They seek to terrorize and to make others bow to them. It's much more than simply fame.
I wonder what they think would happen if they controlled the world. Say they killed all their enemies and the rest surrendered to them. Then what? What would they do if they aren't hating the infidels and blowing people up? I wonder what kind of society they envision with them in charge.
I'm finding that the discussion about what terrorism is, is leaving me with a measure of discomfort for the truth. I am not suggesting that I know what the truth is, but it doesn't seem to be getting a fair shake.
England referred to the American colonists as terrorists. Hiding behind rocks and trees to shoot civilized folks who had the decency to march in lines wearing bright colors was the height of terrorism. But, of course, England had the most powerful military in the world and America was weak. England was well outfitted and the colonists were on a shoestring budget using hand me down rifles. The colonists could not have fought England toe-to toe as it were; they would have been annihilated. So they fought in a manner as to negate the English advantage.
How would a small, relatively underfunded group wage war against the most powerful military in the world today? I'm not a proponent of war, of course, but there is little doubt that the United States has become a bully. They hold all the cards. I realize attacking civilians is considered bad form, but the US military has killed more civilians accidentally wielding it's broad sword, than these groups we call radical have while targeting civilians. What civilized manner do they have at their disposal that gives them a chance at the kind of inroads they have made fighting uncivilized?
I'd never argue the US isn't a bully. But I do not think Daesh/ISIS is as underfunded as we think. Plus they have a lot of our weapons, vehicles, tanks and so on that they procured from Syria and Iraq when people ran. Not comparable to the US by any means, of course. If the US held all the cards truly, we wouldn't be passing bills in record time to make nonsensical decisions to refuse refugees in order to prevent a single ISIS person from sneaking in (despite the fact they are most likely already here). We wouldn't be so utterly terrified that so many people are using Jesus as a reason to refuse people in dire need, who risk death without help. Americans are terrified right now, and despite our military, ISIS has a lot of power over us. Because they are unknown. They can be anyone. All the things we love to do now feel unsafe-concerts, sporting events, large gatherings, etc. They are desperate but smart, and with nothing to lose, and us clinging the way we do to everything, I think they hold more cards psychologically than we want to admit.
Just found this image.
You're welcome.
It is time to fight back. Prepare the lobstermobile ...
Every religion might have created social issues but in todays world most people are ready to leave past and waiting for world harmony.
But i have observed that muslims are not ready to accept presence of other faiths. Therefore they try to flosrish fundamentalism. In addition to that there are options are growing for petrol and dominance of arab is slowly vanishing due to that. Florishing islam is the one kind of investment for ruling community of muslims in future.
One of fb freind used to glorify that only islam is right beyond any other religion with some opinions. He is pathan and pathans in indian subcontinent treats self as rulers and keeps distance with others. After frustation due to unemployement he went to saudi arabia. Being considered from ruling community of pathan he did not get the same treatment from saudi arabean people. Because they consider far superior than others muslims specially asians like pakistan. Finally he came back to India and started to preach that saudi are not.following islam but in practice people like him practice inequality as well.
Take an example in india muslims are allowed.to live in majority hindues but Jeena who partioned india and made seperate country for muslims. He also threatened riots to fulfill his wish in 1947. Afterwards pakistan inclined to Usa and indian pm decided to.live in non alignment. During this process pakistan floriahed terrorism in india based on islam but usa supported.pakistan.
When usa was attacking iraq onn fake basis of nuclear and biological weapons then it was reaponsibility of Europe and other reaponsible countries to oppose it but they did not.Now we can see that only europe has to pay prise with muslim immigrants in there countries which would ask for partition based on religion in coming years, most probslby not because europeans having very less growth rate.
For muslims it is taught through qoran that islam is ultimate religion and others are kafirs.