Lost in the weeds and struggling – looking for guidance
EonTrinity
Evansville, WI New
Good day all. I am reaching out for some help. I am really struggling at the moment and looking for some words of advice from some of you more experienced in the path… First some quick background (thanks for bearing and reading).
In college I minored in world religion, and took an outstanding class on Buddhism by Rita Gross. It was an awesome class, and as a result I gained a great admiration for Buddhism. I recognized the truth in it, but I was also very young and full of passion. Soon after I took a class on the philosophy of religion and we read a book called “the denial of death”, and that book totaled me. It unveiled some serious death issues, and I began having panic attacks regarding death. This lead me on a two decade obsessive search through the world’s religions for relief to this. Oddly enough in those two decades I pretty much checked out everything except Buddhism. So a couple of years ago, I just gave up, and accepted that I would have this misery. Of course, things got worse. Everything around me was causing suffering, and joy kept getting fewer and farther between. Eventually I hit this spot where I was totally screwed. I was so miserable, that I didn’t want to live any more… but I was afraid of death. Through a series of events I stumbled back humbly to Buddhism, and it finally clicked. The teachings, the suffering, etc.
I spent the next several months submersing myself into Buddhism. Started meditating, read daily, watched videos by great teachers, listened to audio recordings, went to workshops, etc. And great changes began occurring. I began to realize that my suffering was about me, and nobody else. I did an intense inventory of all of the things that “caused me” suffering and realized that all of those issues with people, events, memories, etc were not really about them at all, they were about me. One by one I began changing my approach, and stripping away my “external” causes of suffering and dealing with them as they were – my suffering for trying to make reality be something it is not. A lot of soul searching. A lot of progress. One by one, I was freeing myself from things that were causing me suffering – because I was the one causing my suffering! I was realizing that they were not causing me suffering. All good progress.
Now though, I just seem to be feeling yucky – without any real cause. It is like the excuses are wiped away, and I am left with the yuck – and I don’t know how to address it. I listen to the great masters talk about our notions of dualism self/non-self, birth/rebirth, being/non-being and how they are just notions. And that by removing those notions one finds great joy and contentment. I get that intellectually, but not emotionally. I don’t know how to remove those notions, nor what to replace them with. And I don’t know how to get myself to accept them or not believe them – I can do that intellectually. But I feel like I am missing something crucial. I feel as though by letting go of the self, I am getting lost, and trudging dangerously close to nihilism. I am not sure if it is that I don’t want to believe there is no self. Or that this is really the crux of my death struggles. Am I mourning the loss of self? And if there is no self – how the heck does rebirth fit in? Then there is nothing to be reborn. I am running around in circles.
I honestly just don’t know what to do anymore. So I keep meditating – it has been my life line. I don’t know where to go next. I am just sitting and being in the muck feeling hopeless and hoping something clicks.
I am not thinking of leaving Buddhism – it is the only thing keeping me going. I really need some advice here folks.
Thanks for reading – sorry it was so long. I appreciate any thoughts you may have.
Comments
@EonTrinity
There are few things that we can imagine that won't eventually visit us if we meditate long enough.
These visitors are just the price of admission to an existence beyond our ego's sandbox.
Here we just allow all those visitors to arise, exist and fade without us trying to control** any** part their journey.
Practicing at accepting where you truly are, is my only advise for this moment for you or for me..
Welcome aboard.
The idea of no-self is nihilism. The idea of not-self is closer to what Buddha taught. It's not that we don't have a self, but it's not eternal.
I like this talk about Nirvana from Thich Nhat Hanh, he explains it well.
Is it? Possibly depends how you feel I suppose.
... oh you are being polite ...
Hi.
An emotional state has arisen and you wish to run to ... where exactly? How to get there?
Exercise
music
chocolate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_repair_strategies
However that is just temp. In my experience the difference between yuck and yipee is very slight in the physical sensations and experience. It is like saying this is a yuck breath and this a yipee breath ...
... which brings us to tonglen which might be helpful
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonglen
Dear @EonTrinity: A good dunk into reliable teachings from the steady hand of Thanissaro Bhikkhu might be helpful for orienting yourself with where you are at right now, as you describe it. The Buddha most definitely had us steer away from nihilism while also recognizing the source of yuckiness and how we plant the seeds for it (I well know, having been a farmer raising yucky seeds. That's a metaphor ;-)) : http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/meditations5.html
No mud, no lotus, as TNH says. how long we are in the mud varies by so many factors. And we often find ourselves back in it as we continue through life. But sometimes simply realizing that it happened before, and then it was gone...helps. Because if it happened once and then was done, it'll be done again eventually. Impermanence is a great teaching, and accepting it can help immensely. It's too easy to want to hang onto the "good" feelings in life and then when we run into the difficult ones we think we are doing something wrong. Not true. It is just part of life. But, there is a difference in recognizing and just being with what we are feeling, and feeding negative feelings and not letting them go when it's time.
That said, make sure you are taking care to realize that perhaps this is not simply a religious or philosophical issue and might have ventured into mental health/depression. It is normal to have "yucky" times. But if you find them lasting quite long periods of time, you might have something else going on that perhaps you would benefit from a little extra help with.
Sitting in the muck is all there is
Hey @EonTrinity - sorry to hear about your woes.
Have you spoken to a therapist about your feelings? That might be helpful.
The Lam Rim has been the answer for me. It has put me on the straight and narrow and made me realise what is important in my life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamrim
There are many wonderful modern versions of it out there (along with audio meditation CD's).
I suggest you check it out.
Good luck!
I am reading 'Nothing Special' by Charlotte Joko Beck this evening and the following passage seemed relevant
' Practice has to be a process of endless disappointment. We have to see that everything we demand (and even get) eventually disappoints us. This discovery is our teacher '.....'Christians call this realisation the ' dark night of the soul'. We've worn out everything we can do, and we don't see what to do next. And so we suffer. Though it feels miserable at the time, that suffering is the turning point. Practice brings us to such fruitful suffering, and helps us stay with it.'
Winding through our minds we move through happier places and muddier places, the only way out is through. Its not fun but if you can keep on keeping on I haven't heard of any stories where someone continued practicing Buddhism only to stay continually down.
As a direct antidote though often some version of metta or compassion meditation can be very helpful to counter misery, as well as daily remembrance of things you are grateful for.
Welcome @EonTrinity . Hope you find something useful here.
Consider, as suggested above, some counseling. Death is probably the bedrock bogeyman of all religious/spiritual persuasions, but it's strange: At the same time death may scare the pants off one person or another, still, the ability to say what, precisely, anyone might be afraid of is misty and uncertain.
The Buddhist writer, Christmas Humphreys once observed more or less, "The opposite of death is not life. The opposite of death is birth. The opposite of life is form." Not that some written words are worth much ... I just liked that observation.
To the best of your ability, try not to use Buddhism == whether in theory or practice -- as a means of getting you out of something. If escapism is your goal, see your local drug dealer. In Buddhist practice, bit by bit, students make friends with what is and leave what is not to its own devices.
Patience. Courage. Doubt.
And ice cream if necessary.
Best wishes.
... always a good idea to have a circle of ass kickers willing to suggest, 'yuck is all', drug taking [lobster faints] or fat and sugar addiction via ice cream, chocolate etc. Ay caramba! Did I misunderstand again ...
These Buddhists are heartless! They should be sentenced to death ... oh they have been ...
Assuming you are not depressed in which case as @Bunks says, treatment is required for a chemical imbalance ...
What to do? Well ... you have not yet reached a falling away of a indulgence in temporary states ... So you already have the solution.
Continue.
Iz plan. When the going gets ignorant, the ignorant keep going ... something like that ...
There is hope. Always. This too will pass ... as the Bodhi said to Mara and I tell all my befriended demons when visiting the soul-less, yuck monsters, Trumpies and happy bunnies [iz hobby] ...
@EonTrinity
Perhaps you should delve a little deeper into Tanha ( Craving) and Dukkha ( unsatisfactoriness )...
Also the Skandhas (the five aggregates) are another important subject to explore
A short intro into how they function....
An important thing to remember is... whatever is happening to you right now... "This too shall pass!"
Google nibbida and read about it. See if that's what you are having.
Regards
Thanks for the new word, @pegembara.
Nibbida
From Dhamma Wiki
nibbida [nibbidaa;]: Disenchantment; aversion; disgust; weariness. The skillful turning-away of the mind from the conditioned samsaric world towards the unconditioned, the transcendent; Nibbana.
(All I can say is, I feel like I'm in the process of turning, fwiw.)
Perhaps some of Thich Nhat Hahn's teachings on emptiness and interdependence will clear things up for you. There was a great talk on YouTube on this, which I've linked below. I found it to be a great pre-cursor to concepts of non-self and non-being, because the initial focus is on the connection with everything.
I do understand the feeling of yuck though. If you have removed all the excuses, you no longer have the option of not looking at the yuck. I would stick with working on yourself, my experience is that in these cases it is more a question of a wrong view persisting.
Here is another passage I hope might be helpful
Everyday is a Good Day - by Nonin Chowaney
A couple of years ago, it snowed in Omaha on April 29th. I had wanted to work in the garden that day and when I looked out the window, my heart sank.
Later, I walked downstairs and mentioned that it was snowing to Albert, one of our group. "Yes," he responded, "there's something quite beautiful about these late Spring snowstorms."
Indeed there is, if you can approach them with an open mind; if you approach them with complaint because there'll be no gardening, they can be a real pain.
Lama Govinda writes that, "All suffering arises from attitude. The world is neither good nor bad. It is solely our relationship to it which makes it either one or the other." Snow on April 29th, or any weather condition on any other day, for that matter, is neither good nor bad. Good and bad is a question of mental attitude.
Moment-by-moment, we create the world in the mind. We can look out and create a gloomy, depressing world on any day by the condition of mind we bring to it. A depressed mind can make a bright, sunshiny day black and dreary, and a contented mind can create heaven out of rain and storm.
I am reminded of the old Zen saying, "Every day is a good day." What determines this? The mind that dwells nowhere; the mind that accepts everything. This is nirvana.
Nirvana may be understood as the absence of greed, anger (or aversion), and delusion. In other words, it's a state of mind. If we can approach whatever life brings us with the mind free from greed, aversion, and delusion, or accept things as they are without grasping for more or turning away from what's there, we cultivate the mental state known as nirvana, quiescence, or, heart-mind at peace with what is.
This does not mean passivity. It does not mean that we lay back and not move. What it means is that we start from zero, from acceptance of our lives as they are, and move from there. In that way we are not kept from or hindered in our living by complaining, grousing, or blaming others for the conditions of our lives. Every moment, then, affords us the opportunity to practice awakening, nirvana, enlightenment. When we sit zazen, we cultivate this practice.
The instruction for zazen is to cultivate the mind that abides nowhere, the mind of non-attachment. We are to allow thoughts to come and go, to arise without denial or suppression and to pass away without clinging. Angry thoughts about the boss? Let them come and let them go. Contentment with a lover? Let it come and let it go. I can't garden because it's snowing? Let it come and let it go. This practice does not aim for any particular state of mind; it is in and of itself the awakened state; sometimes it is called "cultivating the natural condition of mind."
Buddha, the awakened one, taught the Way to end human dissatisfaction, and nothing more. He taught that the end to suffering is non-attachment, non-clinging. This is the practice of zazen. Gradually, we are able to also cultivate this practice when standing, walking, or lying down; our life itself is enlightenment.
A mind that can abide anywhere is always content, even when suffering greatly. This is liberation; suffering is gone through. We accept what comes, live it, and move on.
...
... One moment, pain and suffering; the next, joy and relief. This all occurs in the mind; we create the world we live in. We sometimes cannot change the circumstances we live in, but we can always change our attitude. If we can learn to let go, it will change by itself.
As Lama Govinda said, "All suffering arises from attitude. The world is neither good nor bad. It is solely our relationship to it which makes it either one or the other." So, even if it's a bad day, "every day is a good day."
It's interesting you bring this up. I recently read a lecture by Ajahn Brahm where he was advising other monks to feel revulsion towards samsara. But didn't the Buddha advise acceptance of things the way they are, rather than craving or aversion?
Well, I didn't make up the definition above, perhaps they should've stopped at 'Disenchantment' as a descriptive ... In any event, I felt that "skillful (emphasis on skillful) turning-away of the mind from the conditioned samsaric world towards the unconditioned..." pretty much says it all, from my perspective.
This isn't exactly the lecture by Ajahn Brahm that I read, but the sentiment is very similar. From this webpage: http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/articles/item/1189-joy-at-last-to-know-there-is-no-happiness-in-the-world.html
I'm not sure this is what the original poster was describing, since I've not felt this pervasive disgust or disenchantment with samsara. From my vantage, it seems to have good and bad. Is feeling revulsion towards reality or samsara throwing the baby out with the bath water?
But I fear I'm drifting off topic and not helping @EonTrinity . Should I start a new thread?
A new thread might be a good idea. I sort of agree, @nakazcid, that feeling revulsion is a bit much, but maybe it's a way of trying to advance the notion of motivation to put one's focus on the unconditioned.
A watered down version of nibbida as expressed by Ajahn Sumedho, another student of Ajahn Chah.
^^^ We will never find a permanent banana, nirvana, heaven, pureland or First Nobel Truth? [lobster faints]
I bet we can't even get a refund?
What's the plan? ... We haz 8 fold path?
Yes, but you have do do all 8 folds to get your scout badge, no cheating or short-cuts.
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses.
ET