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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
I think there certainly will be a readjustment - in the uk referendum the people spoke that they don't think that the current form of the EU is entirely satisfactory, and i think a lot of people across the continent think that way too.
Brussels isn't particularly accountable or democratic. It doesn't do a very good job of the practicalities of some things, like managing immigration, European-level policing or defense. It goes too far in acceding to big business, like in the case of TTIP. It is too opaque in what it does do, and doesn't do a good job communicating to the people.
All of these are things that need to be addressed. But I don't think the great European political experiment has run its course - there are too many things which bind the continent together, and too much that benefits everyone working and thinking together. It is just a question of sorting out the wrinkles.
@Kerome said:
I think there certainly will be a readjustment - in the uk referendum the people spoke that they don't think that the current form of the EU is entirely satisfactory, and i think a lot of people across the continent think that way too.
Brussels isn't particularly accountable or democratic. It doesn't do a very good job of the practicalities of some things, like managing immigration, European-level policing or defense. It goes too far in acceding to big business, like in the case of TTIP. It is too opaque in what it does do, and doesn't do a good job communicating to the people.
All of these are things that need to be addressed. But I don't think the great European political experiment has run its course - there are too many things which bind the continent together, and too much that benefits everyone working and thinking together. It is just a question of sorting out the wrinkles.
There are a lot of benefits to European co-operation. But unfortunately the EU is not capable of reform. EU politicians don't like democracy and are not shy about publicly saying so. They are the ones who have ruined the EU project for everyone. It is their behaviour that will lead to the collapse of the EU. The UK won't be the last nation to leave the EU.
@Boru said: What do you think is happening in Europe now? And what do you think the future holds for Europe? If you don't mind me asking
I think to some extent what we're seeing is a right-wing nationalist backlash against a progressive political union. Will the EU survive longer term? I'm not sure it will, at least not in it's present form.
@Boru it is the same here in the US. We are always fed stats about unemployment and economy, but it means nothing to the 2000 people here who lost their jobs this year because our government started importing steel from China instead of from its own workers here. 2000 people is a huge amount of people in a rural area, and it is impossible for the rest of our economy to absorb those people into other jobs. There simply are no other jobs short of selling tshirts to tourists in the summer.
The elite, the corporate, the politicians who are bought by them ARE out of touch, and people have had enough. And if they aren't going to listen to the people via normal channels, we are going to force them to listen otherwise. It could be a really painful process. But i think it has to happen. I don't know of any other way it can happen.
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
@Kerome said:
I think there certainly will be a readjustment - in the uk referendum the people spoke that they don't think that the current form of the EU is entirely satisfactory, and i think a lot of people across the continent think that way too.
Brussels isn't particularly accountable or democratic. It doesn't do a very good job of the practicalities of some things, like managing immigration, European-level policing or defense. It goes too far in acceding to big business, like in the case of TTIP. It is too opaque in what it does do, and doesn't do a good job communicating to the people.
All of these are things that need to be addressed. But I don't think the great European political experiment has run its course - there are too many things which bind the continent together, and too much that benefits everyone working and thinking together. It is just a question of sorting out the wrinkles.
There are a lot of benefits to European co-operation. But unfortunately the EU is not capable of reform. EU politicians don't like democracy and are not shy about publicly saying so. They are the ones who have ruined the EU project for everyone. It is their behaviour that will lead to the collapse of the EU. The UK won't be the last nation to leave the EU.
Perhaps, but I don't think the Netherlands will be second to go. Over here we have still got considerable faith that European cooperation can be made to work, although people are no longer so happy about the current form of things.
0
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
@Boru said: What do you think is happening in Europe now? And what do you think the future holds for Europe? If you don't mind me asking
I think to some extent what we're seeing is a right-wing nationalist backlash against a progressive political union. Will the EU survive longer term? I'm not sure it will, at least not in it's present form.
I think it really depends if politicians can address the concerns over some of the key right wing issues such as immigration.
@Kerome said: I think it really depends if politicians can address the concerns over some of the key right wing issues such as immigration.
Difficult to see how those concerns can be addressed while the current free movement of people continues in Europe - that was a strong argument from the Leave camp of course.
""Sabba dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" " ("Nothing whatsoever should be clung to !" )
I think the Buddha was on to something.... "Form is Emptiness ...Emptiness is Form !"
0
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
@Kerome said: I think it really depends if politicians can address the concerns over some of the key right wing issues such as immigration.
Difficult to see how those concerns can be addressed while the current free movement of people continues in Europe - that was a strong argument from the Leave camp of course.
Well, they have been trying to address the streams of refugees from outside the EU. From inside the EU there is not such a strain on resources... When a polish plumber sets up in the area he usually brings some seed capital with him, and he is not going to automatically go to the head of the social housing queues.
I'd like to see some figures for net migration within the EU, I really haven't heard anyone make a big deal of it here. I saw England had totals of 1m citizens living outside the uk, and 2.9m eu citizens living in the uk, but it's quite likely that England got it worse than many other countries because everyone speaks English.
Comments
I think there certainly will be a readjustment - in the uk referendum the people spoke that they don't think that the current form of the EU is entirely satisfactory, and i think a lot of people across the continent think that way too.
Brussels isn't particularly accountable or democratic. It doesn't do a very good job of the practicalities of some things, like managing immigration, European-level policing or defense. It goes too far in acceding to big business, like in the case of TTIP. It is too opaque in what it does do, and doesn't do a good job communicating to the people.
All of these are things that need to be addressed. But I don't think the great European political experiment has run its course - there are too many things which bind the continent together, and too much that benefits everyone working and thinking together. It is just a question of sorting out the wrinkles.
There are a lot of benefits to European co-operation. But unfortunately the EU is not capable of reform. EU politicians don't like democracy and are not shy about publicly saying so. They are the ones who have ruined the EU project for everyone. It is their behaviour that will lead to the collapse of the EU. The UK won't be the last nation to leave the EU.
I think to some extent what we're seeing is a right-wing nationalist backlash against a progressive political union. Will the EU survive longer term? I'm not sure it will, at least not in it's present form.
@Boru it is the same here in the US. We are always fed stats about unemployment and economy, but it means nothing to the 2000 people here who lost their jobs this year because our government started importing steel from China instead of from its own workers here. 2000 people is a huge amount of people in a rural area, and it is impossible for the rest of our economy to absorb those people into other jobs. There simply are no other jobs short of selling tshirts to tourists in the summer.
The elite, the corporate, the politicians who are bought by them ARE out of touch, and people have had enough. And if they aren't going to listen to the people via normal channels, we are going to force them to listen otherwise. It could be a really painful process. But i think it has to happen. I don't know of any other way it can happen.
Perhaps, but I don't think the Netherlands will be second to go. Over here we have still got considerable faith that European cooperation can be made to work, although people are no longer so happy about the current form of things.
I think it really depends if politicians can address the concerns over some of the key right wing issues such as immigration.
Difficult to see how those concerns can be addressed while the current free movement of people continues in Europe - that was a strong argument from the Leave camp of course.
""Sabba dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" " ("Nothing whatsoever should be clung to !" )
I think the Buddha was on to something....
"Form is Emptiness ...Emptiness is Form !"
Well, they have been trying to address the streams of refugees from outside the EU. From inside the EU there is not such a strain on resources... When a polish plumber sets up in the area he usually brings some seed capital with him, and he is not going to automatically go to the head of the social housing queues.
I'd like to see some figures for net migration within the EU, I really haven't heard anyone make a big deal of it here. I saw England had totals of 1m citizens living outside the uk, and 2.9m eu citizens living in the uk, but it's quite likely that England got it worse than many other countries because everyone speaks English.