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@IchLiebte said: No one has a right to pieces of the Earth; let all people use it lovingly with no borders.
That's utterly ridiculous. And I think you're intelligent enough to know it is.
As a Romani person, I sort of take offense to your wording...
Aw shucks, I was being ironic. Jeesh, people are so touchy, for goodness' sake!
Nobody anywhere, is 'pure-blooded' wherever-they-are...
I was raised to believe that private property is wrong and that was based on Christian ideology from my mother. Now I'm a Buddhist and I believe it even more!
Funnily enough, your "no one is pure-blooded" (which I agree with) argument contradicts your "no borders = nonsense" argument. One is brotherly, the other is xenophobic.
Sorry if I was being touchy; the wording just hit me with
No I was actually asking you did that seriously offend you
Yes, it did. I thought I was being too touchy, but my mother came into the room and I read that comment to her -- without saying it offended me first -- and she immediately went on the defensive and said it was a bigoted comment.
Yes, it hurts. Ironic or not, I still had to have my college professor, in a class, corner me and have all the other students make gypsy jokes at me while one man told me I should not leave without being searched. It just brings stuff like that up in me when someone says something that would suggest stereotypical Roma behavior, even if they don't say the word.
I'm going to tell you something that will probably piss you off, but if you're really wanting to practise Buddhism you should think over - something will only really offend you if you let it.
I'm Jewish so I'm no stranger to people honing their skills at being offensive. But at one stage i had to consciously CHOOSE to not be offended. And you have to do that too. My turning point came when someone at work told me a holocaust joke. I had family murdered in Auschwitz and spent hours in tears after hearing that joke. But something kind of clicked in me and I realised that it wasn't about me, it was them pulling a dick move. In this case, @federica wasn't even doing that, but it seems the mentioning of living out of a tent triggered you. Why? Really go deep into why that triggered you and you will be one step closer to understanding the 4 Noble Truths.
In my ultimate world, I believe in a world without borders. In people without labels and personal walls and borders. But in the world we currently live in it's not really possible. I try to treat people that way though, I trust them until they show me that I shouldn't rather than the other way around. I work hard to fight the labels my brain spits out. I don't one bit buy into patriotism and flags and national anthems and being prideful of being born under a flag I had no choice in. Schools from very young ages teach so much of that crap, and I hate it. It just teaches the "us versus them, and we're the BEST!" from the time they are no older than even 3 or 4. Ridiculous way to raise children of the world.
I have been reading this morning that the politicians who lead the Leave camp are now backing out on some of the biggest things they said that led people to vote to leave. That's pretty horrible, at least as I am understanding it. That they got people to vote for something that they now can't do because they didn't quite explain all the facts and instead played on emotion. Typical politics. "We didn't REALLY mean it that way, sorry." Asshats.
Will the petition to have another referendum accomplish anything? Or would it be worse to go through it and have to vote again?
1
silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@karasti said, "I have been reading this morning that the politicians who lead the Leave camp are now backing out on some of the biggest things they said that led people to vote to leave."
What are some of those bigger promises? If nothing else, this vote has started to wake some folks up about the realities of government and we'll have people hanging out of windows and texting and so forth, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"
silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
Thanks for the link, @karasti. I read the leading paragraphs and it seems like it's yet just anther typical bunch of big promises with little or no intention of fulfilling them. Why would they mislead - maybe because they figured Brexit would fail and would make them at least sound good. So it's a good high time to pin them to the wall about these promises- all around the world. (will finish reading the article today)
I think all politicians make promises they can't keep, because like here, no matter how brilliant the idea might be, if congress won't pass it, it doesn't matter. In this case it makes it sound like they outright lied. Like the health care thing, they said "The 350 million pounds we send to the EU will be put back into our healthcare system!" but half of that money is sent back to Britain in the form of subsidies and other things, so that money is already spoken for as a resource for Britain and not available to just use wherever. Obviously they would have known that? So to me that is more of a lie than just making a promise they can't keep I guess. But, being US media who knows if that's even the full story, lol.
And the Sun still rises and the tides still turn. The follies of Man are but dust in the wind.
As elsewhere, the UK politicians promise pounds sterling and only deliver halfpence when pushed. @Lobseter put it in beautiful perspective with her thread on the tic (bird) just by posting the thread. Beautiful counterpoint to the political circuses now showing.
@IchLiebte said: No one has a right to pieces of the Earth; let all people use it lovingly with no borders.
That's utterly ridiculous. And I think you're intelligent enough to know it is.
As a Romani person, I sort of take offense to your wording...
Aw shucks, I was being ironic. Jeesh, people are so touchy, for goodness' sake!
Nobody anywhere, is 'pure-blooded' wherever-they-are...
I was raised to believe that private property is wrong and that was based on Christian ideology from my mother. Now I'm a Buddhist and I believe it even more!
Funnily enough, your "no one is pure-blooded" (which I agree with) argument contradicts your "no borders = nonsense" argument. One is brotherly, the other is xenophobic.
Sorry if I was being touchy; the wording just hit me with
No I was actually asking you did that seriously offend you
Yes, it did. I thought I was being too touchy, but my mother came into the room and I read that comment to her -- without saying it offended me first -- and she immediately went on the defensive and said it was a bigoted comment.
Yes, it hurts. Ironic or not, I still had to have my college professor, in a class, corner me and have all the other students make gypsy jokes at me while one man told me I should not leave without being searched. It just brings stuff like that up in me when someone says something that would suggest stereotypical Roma behavior, even if they don't say the word.
I'm going to tell you something that will probably piss you off, but if you're really wanting to practise Buddhism you should think over - something will only really offend you if you let it.
I'm Jewish so I'm no stranger to people honing their skills at being offensive. But at one stage i had to consciously CHOOSE to not be offended. And you have to do that too. My turning point came when someone at work told me a holocaust joke. I had family murdered in Auschwitz and spent hours in tears after hearing that joke. But something kind of clicked in me and I realised that it wasn't about me, it was them pulling a dick move. In this case, @federica wasn't even doing that, but it seems the mentioning of living out of a tent triggered you. Why? Really go deep into why that triggered you and you will be one step closer to understanding the 4 Noble Truths.
If we preface everything with "we have the choice to be offended" then why would we need to watch our speech at all? Obviously Buddha thought it pretty important that we be cautious in what we say. He didn't tell us to let it be the problem of the person on the receiving end. He didn't excuse poor speech by telling everyone just to not take it personally
We should always be investigating the things that pull us. But it's not really up to us to tell someone that they should do it, when or with what experiences. Especially someone new to the forum who perhaps is quite likely new to Buddhism as well. We all arrive at places in our path at different times and as a result of different experiences. We all learn to look into the things we believe and think as we're ready to face them.
So just sharing one of the things I've learned myself. If I have to preface what I am about to say with "Sorry if this offends you" or "You might not like what I have to say" or "This might piss you off, but..." or "I'm blunt and speak my mind, so...."then I need to stop and check myself before I say anything, because I should be able to find a better way to say it. And if I can't? Then perhaps it shouldn't be said. I most certainly still react poorly sometimes, but I have gotten much better.
There are different versions of this all over, but this is my favorite one from Sai Baba (apparently)
"Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve upon the silence? "
We've talked about these a lot here before, but we tend to excuse ourselves from various parts of it when it's convenient for us.
3
silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@karasti said:
If we preface everything with "we have the choice to be offended" then why would we need to watch our speech at all? Obviously Buddha thought it pretty important that we be cautious in what we say. He didn't tell us to let it be the problem of the person on the receiving end. He didn't excuse poor speech by telling everyone just to not take it personally
We should always be investigating the things that pull us. But it's not really up to us to tell someone that they should do it, when or with what experiences. Especially someone new to the forum who perhaps is quite likely new to Buddhism as well. We all arrive at places in our path at different times and as a result of different experiences. We all learn to look into the things we believe and think as we're ready to face them.
So just sharing one of the things I've learned myself. If I have to preface what I am about to say with "Sorry if this offends you" or "You might not like what I have to say" or "This might piss you off, but..." or "I'm blunt and speak my mind, so...."then I need to stop and check myself before I say anything, because I should be able to find a better way to say it. And if I can't? Then perhaps it shouldn't be said. I most certainly still react poorly sometimes, but I have gotten much better.
There are different versions of this all over, but this is my favorite one from Sai Baba (apparently)
"Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve upon the silence? "
We've talked about these a lot here before, but we tend to excuse ourselves from various parts of it when it's convenient for us.
Well quite frankly you're all reading too much into it but I'm out so enjoy.
@IchLiebte said:
I literally hate myself so much, please stop.
Understood. Truly. Understood.
Stop hating yourself, you are loved and loveable. You are worthy. Your self hatred can be overcome [ have I mentioned dharma practice lately ... ]
HOWEVER - did you notice I shouted. It is not easy to love our PERCEIVED negative inner voices. It takes time and the right effort.
Some people are tougher than others. I have a hardshell but underneath we are all vulnerable and soft.
... and now back to politics or mind manipulation by people with unrestrained hair (Boris 'the Johnson' and Billionaire Trumpet aka 'The Mexican Wave') or hair removal fetishes (cough ... naive sangha ... cough). Oh I iz wikid to them 'politicians' ...
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited June 2016
British politics is falling apart and all because those the British voted into our parliament didn't plan ahead and consider a contingency plan if gasp! the British public actually did vote 'out'.
Idiots.
I always consider this adage:
"Plan ahead: It wasn't actually raining when Noah built the ark."
And people ask me why I don't vote... :roll my damn eyes:
Personally my feeling is if something is important enough, one should vote regardless of the likely outcome. Voting is action(kamma) and action always have consequences - big or small.
Perhaps the outcome would have been very different. Who knows?
The butterfly effect is the concept that small causes can have large effects. Initially, it was used with weather prediction but later the term became a metaphor used in and out of science.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I honestly, truly and sincerely believe that in any given situation where I would be casting a vote, my single vote would not have made the tiniest, weeniest bit of difference.
Voting is a democratic choice. I choose to not vote, because essentially, I am voting for liars and those whose interests fundamentally focus on themselves.
I don't support dishonest people who cannot fulfil their promises and almost certainly know that, at the time they make them.
We have now left the Euro, defeated by a comedy team of eskimos and vikings (from Iceland) - I am of course referring to the football. People are more upset about that than the demise of parliamentary democracy and a return to mob rule ...
@SpinyNorman said:
It looks like we're heading for a recession. Reports of racism increasing. Political meltdown. Gawd! I'm glad I've got an Irish passport.
If you lose your passport that's ok, i'll be waiting on the beach with a cup of tea for you as suggested in a humorous story you linked earlier.
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Defeated by a supermarket, I have heard others say...
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited June 2016
@Shoshin said:
When you vote you vote and when you don't vote, you vote.... and there in lies the paradox
Pretty much. Whoever wins is who you voted for if you don't vote.
Here in Canada we're thinking of making it mandatory just like paying taxes.
0
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
edited June 2016
There is a growing anger and resentment among the losers of globalization, politicians are only giving lip service to the feelings. Its reaching a critical mass where enough disaffected (plus the racists) are able to say f you to the system and vote Brexit or vote Trump or whatever the next hand grenade on offer is.
@person said:> There is a growing anger and resentment among the losers of globalization, politicians are only giving lip service to the feelings. Its reaching a critical mass where enough disaffected (plus the racists) are able to say f you to the system and vote Brexit or vote Trump or whatever the next hand grenade on offer is.
Yes, it does seem that way, and globalisation means that individual governments are increasingly ineffectual. I suspect the UK government will be more vulnerable to these bigger forces outside the EU.
In my country the hindu fanatics were ecstatic over Brexit. Since hindus hate muslims, they were hoping that brexit would lead to increased racism against Muslims. Instead, I heard news that even hindus are being attacked in places like London. Now hindu fanatics in my country are confused, lol. But they're still happy bcuz they'd rather cut their nose to spite their face than respect Muslims.
This is what hatred does to people - it makes them lose all objectivity.
In London which is a city dependent, run and fuelled by massive influxes and out-fluxes of free moving people, the mood is incredibly positive. Everyone is more polite and mindful of their fellow Londoners. Wonderful to watch this evolve.
The hate fuelled fanatics, racists, ignorant, crazed and intoxicated (today I met one) are busy trying to find opportunities to stir up resentment, fear, division etc. They feel a national mandate for their emotive pain now exists.
It does not.
All that has happened is social, political and economic evolution has been accelerated.
Those people fueled by a positive emotional outlook will accept and adapt to the change.
Increase in Love as the Fanatical Muslim mystics say ...
There are times I have wondered if not voting would say more than voting. Not that anyone cares on a national level here in the US. But our state prides itself on always being one of the highest voting populace, and if there is nothing worth voting FOR...
In the end, I have always voted. I feel like I have to. Like women fought so damn hard for my right to do so, not all that long before I was born in the 70s. I would't really want Susan B Anthony to be pissed off at me. I have a dollar with her on it, I owe her something, lol.
But I do vote for/with my values and I'm not going to take responsibility for all the people who vote to elect Trump. I'm not voting for someone who inherently goes against so many things that are important to me just to keep him out of office.
@dhammachick I'm not reading too much into anything. I was only going based on what you said, nothing more or less. If my response made no sense maybe it was your delivery and not my response that was off.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited June 2016
Moderator note:@karasti No, I don't think so.
Enough now.
Nicola Sturgeon is trying to keep Scotland in the EU but it all sounds rather complicated.
Maybe one day when Scotland is independent Nicola will get on some warpaint and invade lower England to rescue us from Longshanks Boris!
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Angela Merkel has stated that there will be no 'informal talks' with Cameron, until the UK formally files Article 50.
I completely agree with her.
Cameron wanted to stay in.
Now, he has stated he's resigning, but not until October, and then his successor can file Article 50.
Unacceptable.
He's stonewalling.
It's his responsibility to serve the British Public as their representative, until such a time as he leaves.
he therefore has a duty to follow Public wishes, and comply with the decision made, whether he agrees with it or not.
@lobster said: I was so looking forward to a new Hadrians Wall. Is the skinhead known as Trump still in the Highlands? He knows all about implausible wall building.
Trump is going to turn Scotland into one huge golf-course. Edinburgh will be hole 9.
0
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Boris Johnson has just ruled himself out of the race for the new PM. Contenders will include Michael Gove, Theresa May, Liam Fox and Stephen Crabb.
Jeremy Corbyn is still hanging on as Labour Party leader, Angela Eagle is likely to challenge him for the leadership.
What a soap opera!
Sadly and not unexpectedly the racists have been bolstered. Some are openly offering travel advice to UK citizens.
Fortunately the RAF have just taken delivery of a stealth fighter bomber. Hurrah!
(First RAF F-35B stealth fighter jet lands in UK) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36670106
We must now attack Iceland for beating us at football and rename it neo-Ozland.
We can then use it as a holding ground for bankers, breakaway kilt wearers, guy fawkes type politicians, robin hoodies and as a guantanamo bay type holding ground for American colony Mexican haters and other people of dubious hair orientation or Buddhist extremism.
This might be a good time to initiate the long-planned Celtic invasion of lower England. The Scots will invade from the north, the Welsh from the west, the Irish bowmen will not be detected because they got pissed on the ferry...
But seriously. The remain majority in the North of Ireland EU vote nudges things further towards a united Ireland. Probably not in my lifetime, but one day. As a young man I got involved in Irish Republicanism, it was very dark for a while, then I got involved in Buddhism and probably a lot of lives were saved, including mine. My generation is stuck with the legacy of The Troubles, but I hope the next generation will have a brighter future.
@SpinyNorman said:
This might be a good time to initiate the long-planned Celtic invasion of lower England. The Scots will invade from the north, the Welsh from the west, the Irish bowmen will not be detected because they got pissed on the ferry...
Don't forget that the Welsh voted to leave with England. They should be sacked and pillaged too!
And I take great exception to the Irish getting pissed on the ferry, for we know one should be pissed before entering thy ferry in case ones booze be taken away by party pooper security(English agents in disguise)
I have been saying to friends for a while now to expect a "peasants revolt" because there are a lot of people in society who are being left behind while big business advances and pushes ahead. Politicians might see a growing economy on some spreadsheets or an increase in tax revenue but these things mean very little to a lot of people who continually struggle whether the economy is "good" or "bad" so I suspect they don't know how bad things really are.
I believe this vote to leave was apart of that revolt. Too punish politicians and their friends in big business. Being in or out of the EU makes very little difference to a lot of people, they will still be poor either way so why not hurt the elites by voting out? Look at Northern Ireland, 44.2% voted to leave. That is a LOT of people voting out of something that pumps loads of money into their area. But good jobs are scarce and youth unemployment is high.
There seems to be a lot of racists coming out of the woodwork after this vote who mistakenly believe that 52% of British people in the UK are just like them. I believe unfortunately that things will get more divisive as I don't think politicians have got the message of what Brexit really means and instead the "little people" will be ignored once again and the media will do their bit by throwing petrol on the fire.
This situation isn't unique to the UK. Anti-establishment and Anti-EU sentiment is growing across Europe as politicians ignore the masses and pursue their own interests. Has Europe suddenly become racist after years of being socially liberal? I don't think so.
Surprise, surprise, Osbourne has warned the deficit now won't be cleared by 2020 due to the worsening economic situation, which means even more austerity in the years ahead. I bet the treasury are already working out how to get the deficit down with the EU "savings" due in a couple of years. So much for spending it all on the NHS! Pah!
@Boru said: Has Europe suddenly become racist after years of being socially liberal? I don't think so.
Yes, there are some worrying signs. I heard for example that a lot of Jewish people are leaving France because of an increase in anti-semitism there.
Do you think there is more intolerance in Europe? Maybe there is. I read some news stories that blame Jewish emigration on the influx of Muslim migration.
Not saying that there isn't a rise in the far right, some of which have had anti-Jew pasts like the National Front in France which is gaining popularity.
Comments
I'm going to tell you something that will probably piss you off, but if you're really wanting to practise Buddhism you should think over - something will only really offend you if you let it.
I'm Jewish so I'm no stranger to people honing their skills at being offensive. But at one stage i had to consciously CHOOSE to not be offended. And you have to do that too. My turning point came when someone at work told me a holocaust joke. I had family murdered in Auschwitz and spent hours in tears after hearing that joke. But something kind of clicked in me and I realised that it wasn't about me, it was them pulling a dick move. In this case, @federica wasn't even doing that, but it seems the mentioning of living out of a tent triggered you. Why? Really go deep into why that triggered you and you will be one step closer to understanding the 4 Noble Truths.
_ /\ _
In my ultimate world, I believe in a world without borders. In people without labels and personal walls and borders. But in the world we currently live in it's not really possible. I try to treat people that way though, I trust them until they show me that I shouldn't rather than the other way around. I work hard to fight the labels my brain spits out. I don't one bit buy into patriotism and flags and national anthems and being prideful of being born under a flag I had no choice in. Schools from very young ages teach so much of that crap, and I hate it. It just teaches the "us versus them, and we're the BEST!" from the time they are no older than even 3 or 4. Ridiculous way to raise children of the world.
I have been reading this morning that the politicians who lead the Leave camp are now backing out on some of the biggest things they said that led people to vote to leave. That's pretty horrible, at least as I am understanding it. That they got people to vote for something that they now can't do because they didn't quite explain all the facts and instead played on emotion. Typical politics. "We didn't REALLY mean it that way, sorry." Asshats.
Will the petition to have another referendum accomplish anything? Or would it be worse to go through it and have to vote again?
@karasti said, "I have been reading this morning that the politicians who lead the Leave camp are now backing out on some of the biggest things they said that led people to vote to leave."
What are some of those bigger promises? If nothing else, this vote has started to wake some folks up about the realities of government and we'll have people hanging out of windows and texting and so forth, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"
@silver This is the article I read, with similar headlines seen in other places but I haven't delved too deeply into it otherwise.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/27/news/economy/brexit-broken-promises/index.html
Thanks for the link, @karasti. I read the leading paragraphs and it seems like it's yet just anther typical bunch of big promises with little or no intention of fulfilling them. Why would they mislead - maybe because they figured Brexit would fail and would make them at least sound good. So it's a good high time to pin them to the wall about these promises- all around the world. (will finish reading the article today)
I think all politicians make promises they can't keep, because like here, no matter how brilliant the idea might be, if congress won't pass it, it doesn't matter. In this case it makes it sound like they outright lied. Like the health care thing, they said "The 350 million pounds we send to the EU will be put back into our healthcare system!" but half of that money is sent back to Britain in the form of subsidies and other things, so that money is already spoken for as a resource for Britain and not available to just use wherever. Obviously they would have known that? So to me that is more of a lie than just making a promise they can't keep I guess. But, being US media who knows if that's even the full story, lol.
And the Sun still rises and the tides still turn. The follies of Man are but dust in the wind.
As elsewhere, the UK politicians promise pounds sterling and only deliver halfpence when pushed.
@Lobseter put it in beautiful perspective with her thread on the tic (bird) just by posting the thread. Beautiful counterpoint to the political circuses now showing.
Peace to all
I literally hate myself so much, please stop.
If we preface everything with "we have the choice to be offended" then why would we need to watch our speech at all? Obviously Buddha thought it pretty important that we be cautious in what we say. He didn't tell us to let it be the problem of the person on the receiving end. He didn't excuse poor speech by telling everyone just to not take it personally
We should always be investigating the things that pull us. But it's not really up to us to tell someone that they should do it, when or with what experiences. Especially someone new to the forum who perhaps is quite likely new to Buddhism as well. We all arrive at places in our path at different times and as a result of different experiences. We all learn to look into the things we believe and think as we're ready to face them.
So just sharing one of the things I've learned myself. If I have to preface what I am about to say with "Sorry if this offends you" or "You might not like what I have to say" or "This might piss you off, but..." or "I'm blunt and speak my mind, so...."then I need to stop and check myself before I say anything, because I should be able to find a better way to say it. And if I can't? Then perhaps it shouldn't be said. I most certainly still react poorly sometimes, but I have gotten much better.
There are different versions of this all over, but this is my favorite one from Sai Baba (apparently)
"Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve upon the silence? "
We've talked about these a lot here before, but we tend to excuse ourselves from various parts of it when it's convenient for us.
~~~~
Well quite frankly you're all reading too much into it but I'm out so enjoy.
_ /\ _
Understood. Truly. Understood.
Stop hating yourself, you are loved and loveable. You are worthy. Your self hatred can be overcome [ have I mentioned dharma practice lately ...
HOWEVER - did you notice I shouted. It is not easy to love our PERCEIVED negative inner voices. It takes time and the right effort.
Some people are tougher than others. I have a hardshell but underneath we are all vulnerable and soft.
Metta. All around.
Iz plan. Starts with Self.
... and now back to politics or mind manipulation by people with unrestrained hair (Boris 'the Johnson' and Billionaire Trumpet aka 'The Mexican Wave') or hair removal fetishes (cough ... naive sangha ... cough). Oh I iz wikid to them 'politicians' ...
British politics is falling apart and all because those the British voted into our parliament didn't plan ahead and consider a contingency plan if gasp! the British public actually did vote 'out'.
Idiots.
I always consider this adage:
"Plan ahead: It wasn't actually raining when Noah built the ark."
And people ask me why I don't vote... :roll my damn eyes:
Personally my feeling is if something is important enough, one should vote regardless of the likely outcome. Voting is action(kamma) and action always have consequences - big or small.
Perhaps the outcome would have been very different. Who knows?
The butterfly effect is the concept that small causes can have large effects. Initially, it was used with weather prediction but later the term became a metaphor used in and out of science.
I honestly, truly and sincerely believe that in any given situation where I would be casting a vote, my single vote would not have made the tiniest, weeniest bit of difference.
Voting is a democratic choice. I choose to not vote, because essentially, I am voting for liars and those whose interests fundamentally focus on themselves.
I don't support dishonest people who cannot fulfil their promises and almost certainly know that, at the time they make them.
^^^ There is a butterfly effect and the bigger the internal transformation, the bigger the butterfly. To put it another way:
Buddha = Mothman
However politicians are nothing but trouble. They couldn't organise a sit down in a Buddhist monastery ...
@lobster said, "Buddha = Mothman"
Holy Batman! Powerful way to look at it.
It looks like we're heading for a recession. Reports of racism increasing. Political meltdown. Gawd! I'm glad I've got an Irish passport.
Voting is generally a hit and miss judgement on what is the lesser of two evils.
When you vote you vote and when you don't vote, you vote.... and there in lies the paradox
Yes, abstaining is still a vote.
Um perhaps for many it was a case of :
"Se couper le nez pour faire depit a son visage"
Cutting off the nose to spite the face
We have now left the Euro, defeated by a comedy team of eskimos and vikings (from Iceland) - I am of course referring to the football.
People are more upset about that than the demise of parliamentary democracy and a return to mob rule ...
The impossible is possible.
Sponsored by 'Lobster for Buddhahood' campaign
If you lose your passport that's ok, i'll be waiting on the beach with a cup of tea for you as suggested in a humorous story you linked earlier.
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/06/24/thousands-of-british-refugees-make-dangerous-journey-across-the-irish-sea/
Oh, and watch out for the dolphin evangelists on the way over:
Defeated by a supermarket, I have heard others say...
Pretty much. Whoever wins is who you voted for if you don't vote.
Here in Canada we're thinking of making it mandatory just like paying taxes.
There is a growing anger and resentment among the losers of globalization, politicians are only giving lip service to the feelings. Its reaching a critical mass where enough disaffected (plus the racists) are able to say f you to the system and vote Brexit or vote Trump or whatever the next hand grenade on offer is.
Yes, exactly. And in this sphere, facts are relatively unimportant. Votes are won on emotion.
Yes, it does seem that way, and globalisation means that individual governments are increasingly ineffectual. I suspect the UK government will be more vulnerable to these bigger forces outside the EU.
In my country the hindu fanatics were ecstatic over Brexit. Since hindus hate muslims, they were hoping that brexit would lead to increased racism against Muslims. Instead, I heard news that even hindus are being attacked in places like London.
Now hindu fanatics in my country are confused, lol. But they're still happy bcuz they'd rather cut their nose to spite their face than respect Muslims.
This is what hatred does to people - it makes them lose all objectivity.
Exactly right @techie
In London which is a city dependent, run and fuelled by massive influxes and out-fluxes of free moving people, the mood is incredibly positive. Everyone is more polite and mindful of their fellow Londoners. Wonderful to watch this evolve.
The hate fuelled fanatics, racists, ignorant, crazed and intoxicated (today I met one) are busy trying to find opportunities to stir up resentment, fear, division etc. They feel a national mandate for their emotive pain now exists.
It does not.
All that has happened is social, political and economic evolution has been accelerated.
Those people fueled by a positive emotional outlook will accept and adapt to the change.
Increase in Love
as the Fanatical Muslim mystics say ... 
There are times I have wondered if not voting would say more than voting. Not that anyone cares on a national level here in the US. But our state prides itself on always being one of the highest voting populace, and if there is nothing worth voting FOR...
In the end, I have always voted. I feel like I have to. Like women fought so damn hard for my right to do so, not all that long before I was born in the 70s. I would't really want Susan B Anthony to be pissed off at me. I have a dollar with her on it, I owe her something, lol.
But I do vote for/with my values and I'm not going to take responsibility for all the people who vote to elect Trump. I'm not voting for someone who inherently goes against so many things that are important to me just to keep him out of office.
@dhammachick I'm not reading too much into anything. I was only going based on what you said, nothing more or less. If my response made no sense maybe it was your delivery and not my response that was off.
Moderator note: @karasti No, I don't think so.
Enough now.
Nicola Sturgeon is trying to keep Scotland in the EU but it all sounds rather complicated.
Maybe one day when Scotland is independent Nicola will get on some warpaint and invade lower England to rescue us from Longshanks Boris!
Angela Merkel has stated that there will be no 'informal talks' with Cameron, until the UK formally files Article 50.
I completely agree with her.
Cameron wanted to stay in.
Now, he has stated he's resigning, but not until October, and then his successor can file Article 50.
Unacceptable.
He's stonewalling.
It's his responsibility to serve the British Public as their representative, until such a time as he leaves.
he therefore has a duty to follow Public wishes, and comply with the decision made, whether he agrees with it or not.
^^^ Who is the ozzie in tartan face paint? Is he a Rastafarian? Nicola Sturgeon is the only non fishy politico at present.
I was so looking forward to a new Hadrians Wall. Is the skinhead known as Trump still in the Highlands? He knows all about implausible wall building.
The politicians are already backtracking, I suspect we will end up with something rather similar to the present arrangement.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/dutch-britain-quitting-eu-geert-wilders-netherlands
Trump is going to turn Scotland into one huge golf-course. Edinburgh will be hole 9.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/brexit-great-news-eu-britain-sovereignty
Boris Johnson has just ruled himself out of the race for the new PM. Contenders will include Michael Gove, Theresa May, Liam Fox and Stephen Crabb.
Jeremy Corbyn is still hanging on as Labour Party leader, Angela Eagle is likely to challenge him for the leadership.
What a soap opera!
You could not make it up.
Sadly and not unexpectedly the racists have been bolstered. Some are openly offering travel advice to UK citizens.
Fortunately the RAF have just taken delivery of a stealth fighter bomber. Hurrah!
(First RAF F-35B stealth fighter jet lands in UK)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36670106
We must now attack Iceland for beating us at football and rename it neo-Ozland.
We can then use it as a holding ground for bankers, breakaway kilt wearers, guy fawkes type politicians, robin hoodies and as a guantanamo bay type holding ground for American colony Mexican haters and other people of dubious hair orientation or Buddhist extremism.
We are British Boris Borg. Resistence is Futile.
Stay tuned ...
This might be a good time to initiate the long-planned Celtic invasion of lower England. The Scots will invade from the north, the Welsh from the west, the Irish bowmen will not be detected because they got pissed on the ferry...
But seriously. The remain majority in the North of Ireland EU vote nudges things further towards a united Ireland. Probably not in my lifetime, but one day. As a young man I got involved in Irish Republicanism, it was very dark for a while, then I got involved in Buddhism and probably a lot of lives were saved, including mine. My generation is stuck with the legacy of The Troubles, but I hope the next generation will have a brighter future.
Don't forget that the Welsh voted to leave with England. They should be sacked and pillaged too!
And I take great exception to the Irish getting pissed on the ferry, for we know one should be pissed before entering thy ferry in case ones booze be taken away by party pooper security(English agents in disguise)
I have been saying to friends for a while now to expect a "peasants revolt" because there are a lot of people in society who are being left behind while big business advances and pushes ahead. Politicians might see a growing economy on some spreadsheets or an increase in tax revenue but these things mean very little to a lot of people who continually struggle whether the economy is "good" or "bad" so I suspect they don't know how bad things really are.
I believe this vote to leave was apart of that revolt. Too punish politicians and their friends in big business. Being in or out of the EU makes very little difference to a lot of people, they will still be poor either way so why not hurt the elites by voting out? Look at Northern Ireland, 44.2% voted to leave. That is a LOT of people voting out of something that pumps loads of money into their area. But good jobs are scarce and youth unemployment is high.
There seems to be a lot of racists coming out of the woodwork after this vote who mistakenly believe that 52% of British people in the UK are just like them. I believe unfortunately that things will get more divisive as I don't think politicians have got the message of what Brexit really means and instead the "little people" will be ignored once again and the media will do their bit by throwing petrol on the fire.
This situation isn't unique to the UK. Anti-establishment and Anti-EU sentiment is growing across Europe as politicians ignore the masses and pursue their own interests. Has Europe suddenly become racist after years of being socially liberal? I don't think so.
Yes, there are some worrying signs. I heard for example that a lot of Jewish people are leaving France because of an increase in anti-semitism there.
Surprise, surprise, Osbourne has warned the deficit now won't be cleared by 2020 due to the worsening economic situation, which means even more austerity in the years ahead. I bet the treasury are already working out how to get the deficit down with the EU "savings" due in a couple of years. So much for spending it all on the NHS! Pah!
Do you think there is more intolerance in Europe? Maybe there is. I read some news stories that blame Jewish emigration on the influx of Muslim migration.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/jews-are-leaving-france-in-record-numbers-amid-rising-anti-semitism-and-fears-of-more-isis-inspired-a6832391.html
Not saying that there isn't a rise in the far right, some of which have had anti-Jew pasts like the National Front in France which is gaining popularity.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/12/marine-le-pen-front-national-france/420348/#article-comments
Things are happening and changing very quickly, or have they always been the same? Vichy France over again?
What do you think is happening in Europe now? And what do you think the future holds for Europe? If you don't mind me asking