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How do Buddhists feel about Mental illness?
ramsi
Northern Colorado New
The First Noble Truth says that life is suffering, even psychological suffering, like loneliness, fear and disappointment. But does that also include psychological illnesses like schizophrenia or bipolar or anxiety? Does the Buddha believe these are real, or things people made up because it's hard to prove?
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The perceptions, thoughts and emotions of those suffering mental illness are horribly "real" for the sufferer and distressing to witness for the friends and relatives. I use quote around "real" because surely it is not straining the teaching of Buddha too much to say that there is no "reality", certainly no absolute "reality" other than Nirvana. But the patient suffers and one of the greatest precepts is "compassion for all". So we seek insight.
Ultimately, all we can say is that these are people with a different reality and one that cannot be absolutely denied. As Bertrand Russell said "Ultimately, all that one can say to a madman who thinks that he is a poached egg is that the Inland Revenue will disagree with him".
Hello
Good question.
Basically it sees a continuum between:
Also please note @federica next post. We have crazy people here [lobster raises claw] and some are considered insightful and able to add to the debate, when not battling demonic fish [one of my hobbies] or similar states ...
Just to let you know, @ramsi, we have members here - log-term, much-valued members - who have some of the conditions you describe. As far as we are concerned they are welcome with open arms, but I will add this:
We are a Buddhist forum, and as such deal with any issue from a Buddhist perspective and perception.
I have mentioned this before, several times and merely reiterate here - we are not clinical advisers, doctors, medically qualified or expert enough to give any form of medical advice, and neither do we aim or wish to do so.
Such specific matters should be addressed to those people who ARE qualified to give response.
But in all matters, whatever they may be, we make every effort to be compassionate, understanding and empathetic. And we're here to listen.
Hope that helps.
We humans just can not realize that this body and materialistic life is impermanent and should not be depended on it for happiness. So it must be lack of understanding or low intelligence which seems like mental problem.
I think you either need to clarify that comment, or I need to delete it, because that's actually pretty insulting by the sound of it, @rohit ...
No, It is not insulting. In that 'We' myself is also included. Many people on this site who are practicing Buddhism under proper guidance have also said that what Buddha discovered is very simple. To avoid extremism and to choose middle way.
We just panic when some passes away and thinks how person was dealing through anger or goodness is vanished unexpectedly. Learns some shock but in one or two day we starts living our life as everything gonna remain same.
I think this much explanation is enough.
Hmm interesting. The losses of those closest to me so far have fundamentally changed myself, and my practice. I did not go back to living my life the same a couple of days later. In some cases, years later, I am still learning and processing the losses and what they mean for how I live my life. I can't even say I went back to normal 1-2 days after losing a pet.
I think there is a big difference though between the "mental illness" that all of humanity suffers due to Samsara and medical diagnosis of mental illness that can make it even more challenging for others to deal with Samsara.
I think @Jeffrey always has amazing and unique insight into these questions. I don't think that Buddha would say the unique suffering brought on by mental illness was "made up" though any more than he would say cancer is made up.
Aw thanks @federica
Heh, first thought - hey, that's us! Federica's saying I'm a long-term and much valued member! Do realize that I could be one of many but I'm making it my own anyway because it caused a smile.
Funny I should happen across this today as I was diagnosed on Friday with a pretty serious psychiatric condition. To those who know me, no worries - it's nothing new. In fact, I diagnosed myself on this forum almost a year ago now and it was from sharing here that I shared with my therapist. So thanks all for making me feel safe enough to share with you all in the first place; you started something.
So anyway, I have DID. DID is what happens to a child when they suffer torture prior to age five. That is, DID is what happens to the ones that live. I lived. I got DID. Cause and effect. We know Buddha believed in that.
Indeed.
Altered states, based on age, experience, madness, addiction or narcotics, extreme asceticism, meditation overload (or underload if you prefer) etc determine the nature of our conclusions.
If you have a mind (method of thinking) do not trust it, even if it is sane, considered, conventional, unconventional, enlightened, barely human ( yep that is me
) and so on. That is the conclusion I have not reached ... [oops] 
I am glad you lived @yagr. Love to you and yours!
DID
http://opcoa.st/04md5
thanks for sharing @yagr
@ramsi
There's no question that there 'is' suffering in whatever form it takes ie, Dukkha "Unsatisfactoriness " and according to the Buddha we all suffer when riding the waves of Samsara...ie, we all suffer from some form of mental dysfunction...I think it would also include those that you have mentioned...
However back in the good ol' days ie, the time of the Buddha, they didn't have the fancy names that we have today for certain 'mental conditions/disorders, ie bipolar, anxiety, depression etc etc...It's possible like in many ancient societies, at the time of the Buddha, people who exhibited strange behaviour were often revered, seen as having "mystical" powers eg, able to communicate with the spirit world...or ostracised, banished from the community, fearing that they were possessed by evil spirits ...
From what I gather (but I could be wrong) there are no suttas that specifically deal with the types of mental disorders that we in the modern world have diagnosed ...However the "Vipallasa Sutta" (Distortion of the MInd) does touch on mental illness...
Also if one looks at the Four Noble Truths from a medical view point
The truth of Dukkha: identifying the illness and the nature of the illness (the diagnosis)
The truth of Origin: identifying the causes of the illness (the etiology)
The truth of Cessation: identifying a cure for the illness (the prognosis)
The truth of The Path: recommending a treatment for the illness that can bring about a cure (the prescription)
Then go onto the first of the Eightfold Path, "Right View/Understanding" this really encompasses all of the Dharma...I'm sure if the Buddha was around today he would be recommending sufferers of the above mental disorders/conditions should be seeking 'professional' help in the form of therapy and medication to help alleviate the symptoms ie, to bring their condition under some form of control...
So much love to you! I was also tortured prior to age five and have a dissociative disorder as well, but it's diagnosed as depersonalization.
Cause and effect, you know, I've never thought of it that way. As far as "what do Buddhists think", I can confirm that we are not scientologists.
Much love to all!
According to the doctors I have "psychosis sensitivity (not otherwise specified)", although it manifests mainly as experiences in hypnagogic or hypnopompic - pre or post sleep - states, which is a condition quite a few historical figures also had and even benefitted from.
I've investigated in the past what the Buddhists think about mental illness, and in some ways it is still quite primitive. The Tibetan tradition has concepts such as rlung and sok rlung, which is a way of thinking of mental illness as mind energies not flowing in their proper channels. There are stories of monks who suffer breakdowns in meditation who are left in their cells until they recover, which doesn't sound terribly compassionate. Also entry to retreats can often be barred if you disclose mental illness.
So it's not that well integrated, if you look at Buddhism as a science of mind the idea of madness or mental illness is a bit of a neglected cousin, and you do hear of people who have to fall back on the regular mental health services when in difficulties.
Fair comment, though you could also argue that Buddhist practice is quite challenging and requires a basic degree of mental health.
For the specific case of meditative practice, perhaps. But I think a lot of people with poor mental health would benefit a great deal from Buddhism, with its focus on compassion and overcoming suffering. In a limited way it is an antidote to what happens with bad mental health.
And more, a lot of people with so-called mental health problems are actually those who are highly sensitive and would in other times have been gifted shamans or healers. By excluding them you might also end up excluding those who can most easily reach advanced states of meditation.
It is a spectrum, some people with intense mental illnesses have a lot of difficulty managing their conditions and are more in need of compassion and care, and less able to practice. Others have reached a point where they have made peace with their condition and have learnt to use their talents and flaws.
I have heard it said, that the mystic has learnt to swim in the waters where the madman is drowning. Quite apt in some ways
I think a "Buddhist" understanding of mental illness is the same as their understanding of any physical illness. While I can't think of any culture that doesn't recognize a "madman" can't be responsible for his actions and the cause of madness is seen as magical or divine because they had no other explanation. I guess in cultures that are heavily invested in past life karma beliefs, they'd believe madness was also caused by something you did in a past life. So you're working off bad karma. As for the more subtle shades of mental illness, mostly it's the invention of medical science that allowed us to even realize the mind's problems could be catagorized and treated that way.
The struggle to eliminate your selfish desires requires a relatively healthy mind, but that just means your practice requires you to be able to live a normal life. What's normal is another debate.
Good article written by a monk on the subject. The Buddha most certainly believed this kind of suffering is real. Although, it does not seem like he spoke about them by themselves. They were always related to the big picture of samsara, dukkha, impermanence, etc.
http://btmar.org/files/pdf/Mental-Illness-Paper.pdf
Suffering comes to us in this life from sources that are vast. Problems are infinite. Some problems we can solve quickly, some we work on for a long long time.
While we're waiting for that to work (or not) Buddhism offers us a way not to change the problem, but to change how we experience it/them. So the source of the problem, or its validity, is quite beside the point. In Buddhism we're dealing less with the source of the problem, and more with the other side of the equation, our side.
Generalized anxiety, check.
I think what the Buddha believed about mental illness is irrelevant, and based on his teachings, it seems he would agree. After all, he had respect for new evidence and knowledge. I don't think the Buddha has much to say about the many psychological, neurological and general scientific discoveries that have happened since he was alive. And yet, much of modern psychology today seems to embrace the practice.
It does seem obvious to me that stigmatizing mental health issues (non understanding) in turn causes unnecessary suffering in both those who are directly dealing with it and their friends and family. As well, this non awareness seems to also cause suffering on a society-wide level. A better understanding of it can prevent unnecessary and destructive behavior in reaction to it.
That seems wise, and perfectly in line with the practice. For what it's worth, my mental chatter is loud and convincing.
i don't have much to say, except for lots of lovingkindness to all of you. I was diagnosed with GAD and adult ADHD last year. It's been a tough go... but easier since I know what's happening now. I think the widespread scientific opinion is that these mental illnesses are just as real and important as physical manifest illnesses. That's enough for me... I don't spread my dx around, though, because the general population in my area tends to look at mental illness as "a fake excuse to be a failure." I find that incredibly insulting. We are all valid. All of us!! Buddhism is helping me to be more aware and accepting of my own differences.... Hopefully if I can love my issues, the ones who matter will, too!
Some great insights guys.
I particularly liked:
I have heard it said, that the mystic has learnt to swim in the waters where the madman is drowning
Don't worry about being crazy @ramsi. IF we can gain wisdom rather than being drowned. Compassion for others comes about because we share flaws. We can relate and empathise due to our inadequacies/Dukkha.
Thanks!
I loved the information, I know it may have been really basic but I've only been interested in Buddhism for about a week and just want to gather everything I can.
Jack Kornfield wrote a wonderful essay on the topic of psychotherapy and meditation. In it, he advocates for the role of both spiritual practice and psychotherapy for people who are struggling. I would also add medication for those who require it.
In the Loka Sutta, the Buddha defines "the World" as "the eye, the ear, the nose, the tongue, and the mind." Thus, the Buddha wasn't interested in defining or elucidating the nature or laws of the external world, but rather the world only as we can experience it: from "the one seat at the center of the Universe", as Ajahn Chah puts it, whatever points of contact touch our six senses.
I think mental illness is a part of "The World" for people who have these conditions. Thus, Buddhism doesn't address the alleviation of the complex symptoms that comprise, say, bipolar disorder or schizophrenia or anxiety or borderline personality organization, etc. But it can address our relationship to the Worlds created by those conditions, in such a way as to allow us to reduce the dukkha associated with them. In my practice, I work with the sights, sounds, thoughts, feelings, etc. associated with my depression and anxiety which comprise "my World." In doing so, I accept them for what they are: sensory or mental input that is either pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral; not-self; impermanent. This hasn't "cured" me of those mental illnesses (therapy is better for that), but it has made them less of a fodder for dukkha.
Interesting! "You don't have to be mad to be a Buddhist, but it helps".
Strange. I always thought, "You don't have to be Buddhist to be mad, but it helps."
Many a true word said in jest.....
Ah ha! Buddhism can help you be mad in a positive way. Good news for wer-lobsters like me
In the dervish Buddhist tradition, the Sufis sometimes describe themselves as 'Madmen or idiots of Allah'. Not to be confused with criminal islamists who are nothing more than crazed destroyers of Islam/Peace.
It is skilful to be as 'little crazed' as possible AND this might require medication/therapy etc.
However unconventional thinking is one of the benefits of freeing ones impediments. It does not give one free rein to amuse oneself, abuse path walkers, exploit the ignorant, naive or gullible. It is a responsibility that only The Idiots and Madmen would contemplate ...
I find that Buddhism has much to do with ones exploration of the self - how you view yourself, understanding yourself, disciplining a self gone wild, evolving a view of the nature of self and the reality around us. These are things you need to do before you even start working on the ego or the perfections.
If you have a mental health condition, these things can be a lot more confrontational. There is more to look at, more challenges to face. In the real work of Buddhism I think you start off with a fuller plate, before you begin on the usual areas you need to resolve those issues.
It's interesting because there is now quite a lot of support that many mental health conditions are driven by social causes or trauma on some level. Following Buddhism is a bit like being your own therapist... The lore gives you a number of powerful concepts which can open doors, tools like meditation, but it's up to you to confront and resolve the stuff that comes up.
When I was younger I did an acting course, it was quite liberating to play different roles, to become different people, like loosening up self-view. We do this naturally anyway of course, playing different roles in different situations.
Buddhism is my psychotherapy. It's cognitive behavioral therapy, emotional relative therapy, trauma counseling, Learning new behaviors, being compassionate to others regardless of how I "think" or "feel" they may have wronged me. It's teaching me patience to calm the anxieties. when I almost had a complete break with reality it helped me to keep feeling my feet touch the ground. That's not to say I don't still need a therapist.... It's just that now I'm not drowning without one. I would say that it is extremely relevant to mental illness.... To those that can interpret it as such.
By the way, I have a schizophrenic aunt. I often wonder is she could be taught not to believe her mind... To quiet the voices in her head. But she's Christian.... How he hell is anybody going to convince her that God isn't talking to her when he spoke to so many people in the bible?
Buddhism is a good accompaniment for psychotherapy, but it has to be said that many therapists will tell people with mental illnesses to be careful with meditation. It is not well understood how the unusual phenomena in meditation compare to psychosis, and many therapists consider intense meditative practices and especially breakthrough ones to be a form of self-induced psychosis.
But I think there are so many other benefits to following Buddhist teachings that you get plenty out of it even with little actual meditation practice.