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All I have is this moment...and even Trump can't screw up fast enough to mess up this moment.
Time to chop wood and carry water.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
He showed in the past week or so that he is capable of acting like an adult. Hopefully the weight and responsibility of the presidency will keep his pettiness in check.
Jessie Ventura won the governor's race in my state a while back. He had the same sort of thin skinned, childish behavior we've seen from Trump. That didn't go away but he took the job seriously and did a decent job. Fingers crossed that it'll be the same for Trump.
Yep, and we elected Ventura because we were screaming for change. We got it, and quickly after many people didn't want it after he embarrassed the state several times (but overall did an ok job). His interview in Playboy where he said he wanted to be reincarnated as a bra comes to mind. I'm going to have to evaluate my politics from here on out because I'm super unamused at the DNC handling of the Hillary/Bernie stuff and that my elected officials did not stand up for the people in MN and follow their lead in the convention. I don't expect to always get what I want, but I expect people who we've hired to represent us to do so, and they did not.
@SpinyNorman said:
If it's any consolation, us Brits went through something similar with the Brexit result.
I heard on the news that the Republicans have control of both houses, does that put Trump in a stronger position?
Not necessarily. Trump is not driven by ideology and has no loyalty to the Republican establishment. In fact they fought his nomination. If we had to have a Republican in the White House out of the circus car full they picked from, he is actually the most likely to stand in the way of their most extreme wish list.
It will be interesting to see what happens. Will they block him? Despite sharing a party they have some substantial differences and quite a few of them didn't support Trump and what he was doing. How it'll play out, no one knows. However, I think they will come together in some things and I think it's likely they will approve whoever he puts up for the Supreme Court, which in the US is a lifetime appointment. Right now our court is split down the middle with 4 more liberal judges and 4 more conservative (generally speaking) and that will now be filled with another conservative. Hopefully he/she will be better than Scalia was. But Trump loved Scalia so I don't see that happening. It's quite possible he will fill more than one seat, as some of our justices are getting pretty old.
I'm ashamed and embarrassed for the country. I just can't believe it...
Understood.
I was astounded when Brexit happened. I then had to understand what had happened and why. America belongs to its people, not to Trump. You have nothing to be ashamed of, fearful of or embarrassed about. Politicians and other vested interests are always present. Great solutions and new directions and movements will emerge ...
Keep practicing. Be kind. America, Europe, Britain, great countries and continents. The past? Gone. Now we move on ...
Are we terrified of the other side, or of just the politics we've been convinced of on the other side? So many of us are afraid of the other side, it seems like that should be something we can work with. Hey, we have something in common. How can we reach a middle ground? So much of what our elections are based on isn't even real. It's all acting and posturing and manipulating. Now we get down to business. And neither side has a clue right now what that is even going to mean with Trump. Forward we go. There is no other choice. Sending courage and love out to the world. Fear is not a good place to be. We all need to be looking at our fear.
4
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Two party systems are responsible for a lot of adversarial politics. I honestly think the whole thing works better in a multiparty format (see Germany).
I'd have to agree with that @Kerome I think proportional representation and coalition governments lead to better long term planning and stability. Change is slower, but better thought out.
@David said:
From a Canadian perspective, United States politics is like reality TV.
We started our campaign trail the same time but ours was done over a year ago. Our first debate was in a smallish room with the nominees, a few cameras, reporters and a small audience. It was all business and fairly respectful.
When the States were doing theirs it was absolutely hilarious. I thought Hulk Hogan was fighting the Ultimate Warrior all over again. Flashing neon lights, pyro, theme songs... It was embarrassing just to be sharing the same hemisphere.
Many people seem to be surprised Hilary was chosen over Sanders by the Powers that Be but I thought it was understood when Obama beat her out that she would be up next. Sanders is by far the better person for the job but it was already decided that America needs a woman president. Too bad she is also just another war mongering bitch to the Rothchilds and friends.
As for Trump? Come on now. Seriously, where's the gag? Almost anyone would look like the sane choice compared to this guy. It's his whole part in the play but it's like Star Wars bring in Jar Jar Binks. How are we supposed to suspend our disbelief when characters are going out of their way to be unbelievable?
Almost anybody would look like the saner choice. Anybody.
Borat won. The kicker is that the people who elected him will have to live with him. They thought he's for putting people back to work, and for the little guy. They have no idea that he's one of the biggest abusers of the H1b visa system; he's imported thousands of Romanians to work in his hotels. He has a recruitment office in Bucharest. He won't hire American workers, because they're too expensive, and as he made abundantly clear, he refuses to even think about hiring Latin American workers.
Bernie, however, was not the better person for the job. He was all talk, no action. He's never gotten a single initiative of his even considered by Congess, let alone--approved. And when he visited the offices of the San Francisco Chronicle, whose staff was ready to promote him, he couldn't answer any of their questions as to how he would implement his plans. He wasn't familiar with the gov't offices and mechanisms needed to implement his measures. They weren't able to do their article, as a result. The staff was surprised and disappointed.
I thought O'Malley came out best in the Dem debates, but Hillary & The Bern were acting from the start as if they already had been chosen. O'Malley was providing detailed and thoughtful answers to the questions, while the other two were only speaking in slogans and sound bites, grinning for the cameras. It was weird. I still think O'Malley would have been best, and now even some Republicans are saying he would have been unbeatable.
I love that line, "It was embarrassing just to be sharing the same hemisphere"! There goes the neighborhood, as they say. My Canuck friends said droves of Americans crowded across the border after one (or both?) of the Bush elections. I wonder if the same will happen now. No one ever expected it could get worse than Bush!
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited November 2016
Even Bush said this guy is f#cked.
Nobody expects him to be a good president except for the goons that like his sound bytes and that is the reason he's in. Just out of spite. Nobody wants to be told they have to vote for a war monger to defeat a loud mouth.
I do think Bernie would have won because he's as radical as Trump but the other way. The majority simply didn't want business as usual and that's what they would have gotten with Clinton. If the Berners voted for her she would have won.
What I'm worried about is the situation at Standing Rock.
@David said:>
What I'm worried about is the situation at Standing Rock.
I've got family there at the moment and spoke with some of them this morning. The implications of Trump being the president-elect is not being ignored. We've got a couple of months though. At the moment however, the position of those I've spoken to is, "It's a good day to die." Perhaps that will change the closer we get to Armageddon I mean, the day Mr. Trump takes office.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
@David said:>
What I'm worried about is the situation at Standing Rock.
I've got family there at the moment and spoke with some of them this morning. The implications of Trump being the president-elect is not being ignored. We've got a couple of months though. At the moment however, the position of those I've spoken to is, "It's a good day to die." Perhaps that will change the closer we get to Armageddon I mean, the day Mr. Trump takes office.
Obama still holds the reigns at the moment and he could do something if he wanted to. Maybe he'll pull it off fast, who knows?
Let's not forget there are still dealings with Saudi Arabia and they have like zero human rights so we can't say the current administration would be ethical to the point of going against self interest. Oil is oil, right?
Obama seems like a good guy but he's still a cog in the machine whereas Bernie or even Trump (perhaps to his chagrin) are wrenches in the gears.
Nobody expects him to be a good president except for the goons that like his sound bytes and that is the reason he's in. Just out of spite. Nobody wants to be told they have to vote for a war monger to defeat a loud mouth.
I do think Bernie would have won because he's as radical as Trump but the other way. The majority simply didn't want business as usual and that's what they would have gotten with Clinton. If the Berners voted for her she would have won.
What I'm worried about is the situation at Standing Rock.
Well, Obama is still Pres., so the situation at Standing Rock can't get too bad. One hopes. Plus, the tribe has a lawsuit going through federal court to halt the action, so we'll see what happens with that. Of course, it's outrageous that the Republicans have held up Obama's Supreme Ct. nominee. That's hijacking government, basically.
Many of the Berners did vote for Hillary. Analysis showed that young people voted overwhelmingly for Hillary in nearly every state. And yes, I've been wondering why the same people who rallied to Trump didn't go for Bernie earlier on. I think that would have entailed Republicans going over to a Dem, which usually only happens in desperate situations. But also, he's Jewish, and you know Trump stirred up the racist vote. arrgh!
Which brings me to one of my main concerns; civility in public discourse will now be out the window. I've noticed a heightened nastiness on political forums since the election; people seem to feel like they've been given permission to lash out at moderates and liberals in a very nasty way. It's worrying. The candidate (and future President) has normalized outrageous talk, made it ok to blurt the worst that's on one's mind.
Part of the hemisphere is going to get rowdier. Hopefully, it will only last 4 years. shudder
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
Today I got my vote back. The local government after prompting from central government, decided that I could register for a postal vote, not be on a for-sale-open-database and not have to continually fill out the same form for these basic facilities.
I unsubscribed from a fledgling political centrist movement that wishes to prop up existing politicos. I have become more political in the last few years. In the past I have voted Green but they never really recovered from David Icke being involved (he believes the Queen is a fish or a lizard or something or other). Now I will be supporting the efforts of Jeremy Corbyn, who by American standards is a Communist and leader of the opposition in the UK.
Some of you will have voted for Trump because change is required. That is still always true but the nature of political, social and spiritual change is up to us.
My feeling is that great social upheaval will lead to alternatives to the choices open to us. Please don't retreat from the lay path of Dharma.
Dharma is a friendly path. If I can befriend fish, hell realm sentients, crypto-fascists, communists, mad family, monks etc there is hope for all of us good and reasonably sane people ...
Don't believe what you think or feel. It is only hype.
Be well. Be hopeful. Be happy. You are valuable. Make a difference.
quite a few Bernie supporters swallowed the lump in their collective throats and voted Hillary. Because Bernie asked us to, and because of Trump. Where we lost is the young people. The millions of them who do not want to adopt the system we've been living in. They were on board heavily with Bernie. And we lost them. Hillary excited no one. She inspired little in anyone. Trump was just the opposite, crazy enough.
What I'm worried about is the situation at Standing Rock.
Update: Obama said very recently that we should honor Native Americans' sacred grounds and values, something like that. According to reports, Obama has the power to at least stay the pipeline construction until Trump gets in, but he hasn't chosen to exercise that power yet. So the protesters are waiting to see if he issues an executive order on their behalf. Even so, everything could, and probably will change after the new President is sworn in.
@karasti said:
Where we lost is the young people. The millions of them who do not want to adopt the system we've been living in. They were on board heavily with Bernie. And we lost them.
We never EVER lose our young people. They just grow up.
@karasti, fellow Berliners, brexiteers, Thumpers, Bambi Buddhists and practioners of refuge and kindness [ahem],
The world is complex and full of clowns [lobster raises guiltly claw] and people doing good and working towards an Independent State of Being (which I think is near Texas or it 'might not be in Kansas anymore') ...
That is why we practice. Hold certain Truths as self evident and support the greater good as we understand it.
Some things are as predictable as the sunrise. Right now, everyone is shocked at Trump's win (even the ones who wanted him to win, but they won't admit it) and especially the people who make a living pretending to be political experts are telling you exactly why Hillary didn't win. The natural tendency when something that shocks you happens is to go over and over the event in your mind, and say "Well, if we'd only done this, or paid more attention to that... If only..."
It's all human nature. We are hardwired to seek out reasons so we can avoid unpleasantness in the future. It's how we survived in prehistoric times. "My family got deathly sick. Why? We ate those red berries for the first time yesterday. No more eating red berries!"
But when it comes to millions of people acting together, there is no one reason we can pin down and no one person or group to blame. Sure, if the past was changed, it would change the future in some way. If different people ran for office, then of course someone different might have been elected. If the FBI director had not been a Republican who saw an opportunity to meddle... If only... If only...
Life is Dukkha. In times that cause distress go back and take refuge in Buddha and the basics. Buddhism is more than a philosophy, more than a type of meditation. It is a refuge. Sure, when things are going the way you like, you can play around with questions about reincarnation and levels of meditation. But at times like this, what would Buddha say? "Weren't you listening? What did I tell you? Did I not make myself clear? Life is Dukka! I didn't say we could change the world! Look to your own mind and change yourself!"
That doesn't mean to give up. When the boat springs a leak, you don't say the problem is, you have a desire not to drown. You bail like hell while realizing sooner or later, all boats leak and need repaired. And just like all those other leaks that got patched up eventually, we'll fix this one too.
@lobster I only meant in terms of the democratic part lost them as voters. Almost every young person my son's age (20ish) i know, either didn't vote, or voted 3rd party. Not that voting 3rd party is bad, I'm not saying that. Nor am I saying those inclined to 3rd party should vote otherwise. But most of them made it a protest vote for not getting Bernie as the democratic nominee. They aren't lost of course. The party lost their votes and that is a big part of the reason Clinton lost some of her key states that have historically been democratic states. Because all those young people who flung Bernie to the top during primaries in those states, didn't vote for the democratic nominee. And often out of spite for the DNC and their shenanigans.
Yes, there were some 3rd party voters and write-in voters, but election stats show that in all but 3 states, young people under about 35 voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. The stats don't show how many stayed home/didn't vote. But she carried the vote of those who showed up. Young people were MUCH more consistent nation-wide in their vote for Hillary than older people.
45% of America stayed home. I should have been clearer that I meant specifically in the states where Bernie won primaries, not country-wide. States in the upper midwest that are almost always blue states and Bernie won handily yet they voted for Trump. It wasn't because those Bernie fans in MI and WI went out to vote for Trump. Quite a few counties within those states have historically been blue counties. Strongly. They flipped red this time, and it's not because a lot of people who supported Obama in 2012 suddenly supported Trump. It was like the opposite of the last election, where more red voters stayed home because Romney was a less than ideal candidate. Voter turnout that in states did vote for Clinton was down almost 3% while turnout in states that voted for Trump was about the same. She did not have as much support as she should have in traditionally blue states in the midwest and I think the young vote is a big part of that. In addition to that, red voters who have sat out the past election or 2 because the red candidate was the equivilant to them as Clinton was to a lot of democrats this time.
In conversations locally, I honestly cannot think of a single person age 18-24 (who I keep tabs on because they are my son's age and I know a lot of them) who was a Bernie fan who voted for Hillary. Not that that is a large sample size, lol, but looking at online comments over the month it wouldn't surprise me to see that as a trend in that young age group.
NYTimes columnist David Brooks wrapped up his latest column with the observation,
Trump’s bigotry, dishonesty and promise-breaking will have to be denounced.
We can’t go morally numb. But he needs to be replaced with a program that addresses the problems that fueled his ascent.
After all, the guy will probably resign or be impeached within a year. The future is closer than you think.
Ladbrokes, the largest betting establishment in Great Britain, puts the odds of Trump leaving office "via impeachment or resignation before end of 1st term" at 3/1.
Resignation sounds possible: A guy like Trump likes to sleep in after acknowledging a steady regimen of accolades. What's a bully to do when he achieves what he claims to have wanted to achieve. He stiffed his workers in the past. Is there some reason to suppose he will not stiff the American public as well?
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
One thing we know is that if Clinton won, there would be a war brewing with Russia mainly over globalization attempts by big banks.
I don't really know what to make of Trump. I have a feeling at least half of his over-the-top chauvinism, bigotry and other idiocy was staged to get the dumb apes to vote for him. I have a feeling the ones that were on board with that schtick are going to be the ones that are most disappointed. Like I have the feeling things like the "wall" are going to be metaphors.
People think he hates immigrants but his wife is one. People thinks he hates women but his campaign manager is the first woman to successfully run a presidential run.
I heard that he's even thinking of keeping Obamacare and expanding on it and that his hotels have always allowed the transgender to use whatever bathroom they want.
I'm just sitting here trying to make sense of it all while hearing the many reports of violence from the Dems and I'm a fairly liberal Canadian.
It's interesting because photos of him since the election he looks different. I don't mean in a good or bad way, just...different. I don't know if he's crapping his pants, less stressed, more stressed, or what. But different. Did I happen to mention, different?
Tee Hee! Do you have the saying in USA, 'a weak is a longing time in politics?' - eh ... a week is a long time in politics ...
'The times they are a changing ... '
Lovely pic from @karasti of two hell dwellers happily on their way to the hell realms ... bless their little used hearts ...
People are terrified that Trump has been elected president.
Watching Trump lately, I get the impression that he is one of those terrified people. The stuff he said in the campaign reflects not his mastery of reality, but his mastery of showmanship. Now he has the intimidating responsibility of not blowing up the world, and he appears to realize it. Everything changed with that stunning vote, EVERYTHING. I don't think there will be an actual wall. I don't think that Hillary will go to jail. I don't think Obamacare will be scrapped. It was all showmanship. He said it because he knew it would resonate; he had not a care at all about whether it was true. I don't think he expected to actually win, and have to actually chart a direction for the country. That's what's different. Yesterday circus barker. Tomorrow president. He will age greatly, very greatly indeed, before inauguration. And I've never, ever, seen a president-elect who so very desperately needs to rapidly gather some age, wisdom, maturity, and vision.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
He may surprise everyone yet. He didn't become this successful in business by being an entire moron....
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Buddhist teachers respond to Trump win on Lions Roar
Buddhist teachers respond to Trump win on Lions Roar
buddhist teachers respond to news of trumps presidential win
@kerome -- Amazing to notice how sincerely this gathering uses the word "we."
"We" is a binding word, an inviting word, a word that seems to promise, a soothing and healing word. And yet there is scant attention paid to the in-your-face dis-ease which this easing word addresses.
What "we" is anyone talking about so blithely? Until that question is honestly assessed, there is something wobbly about the assessments... at least from where I sit. Is my broken arm less painful because "we" acknowledge how painful it is? Like any other kid, when I was little I would run to my mother when I scraped a knee ... and she would "kiss it better." But for how long does anyone rely on being a kid?
Not sure if this is what @genkaku is getting at, but it reminded me and is a worthwhile read. It's long, get a cup of tea and sit down for a while though. It's a worthy read. I had a few tears yesterday reading it, realizing that I did some of these things. It's one of those articles you have to read open-minded and let go of your "but isn't that how it really is?" ideas. Good stuff. http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
edited November 2016
@karasti said:
Not sure if this is what @genkaku is getting at, but it reminded me and is a worthwhile read. It's long, get a cup of tea and sit down for a while though. It's a worthy read. I had a few tears yesterday reading it, realizing that I did some of these things. It's one of those articles you have to read open-minded and let go of your "but isn't that how it really is?" ideas. Good stuff. http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
My favorite kind of article, when a source that generally leans one way takes a position against its own side. It feels more likely to be true to me.
When I read or listen to sources from the left and the right it sounds like largely the same framework only with different ideologies inserted in the blanks then backed up with reasons. The difference seems to be largely in the emotional quality, the right is angry and the left is smug.
In that the article takes a shot at smugness and lack of empathy towards conservatives by liberals I can get on board. When it goes after "good knowledge" though I'm not sure I can buy in fully. Liberals can cling to certain ideas even if they aren't true or conditional but I still think there must be some ideas and information that are better or truer than others.
The article was written back in April but here is one prescient paragraph.
Trump capturing the nomination will not dispel the smug style; if anything, it will redouble it. Faced with the prospect of an election between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, the smug will reach a fever pitch: six straight months of a sure thing, an opportunity to mock and scoff and ask, How could anybody vote for this guy? until a morning in November when they ask, What the fuck happened?
@federica said:
He may surprise everyone yet. He didn't become this successful in business by being an entire moron....
He has had 6 bankruptcies. He used the bankruptcy laws as an economic tool.
@Steve_B I don't think he expected to win, either. Now that he's won, he has to figure out what to do.
There may not be a wall. He doesn't want to pay for it, and he's said he would slash tax revenues, so he's cutting expenses as well. Also, he's said the wall would only be on a certain part of the border in Texas, not the entire length of the border. Still, even a short-ish leg of it would be very expensive.
@karasti I haven't analyzed the vote, and the youth vote, in WI and MI, but election analysts have said that if those states and Pennsylvania didn't have a winner-take-all system, Hillary would have had enough EC votes to win the election. She won in some key urban precincts there, apparently, as well as a few more rural ones, or suburban ones, or something. So there's much discussion now about changing the winner-take-all law in the states that have it (which are the majority), rather than doing away with the EC altogether.
@Dakini yes, changing the EC would be a much easier task, it could be like NE and ME have-split electorates. Doing away with it all together would involve changing the constitution so that would be a much bigger undertaking. I assume it could be altered without changing the constitution anyhow, since those couple of states do it.
Comments
All I have is this moment...and even Trump can't screw up fast enough to mess up this moment.
Time to chop wood and carry water.
He showed in the past week or so that he is capable of acting like an adult. Hopefully the weight and responsibility of the presidency will keep his pettiness in check.
Jessie Ventura won the governor's race in my state a while back. He had the same sort of thin skinned, childish behavior we've seen from Trump. That didn't go away but he took the job seriously and did a decent job. Fingers crossed that it'll be the same for Trump.
Yep, and we elected Ventura because we were screaming for change. We got it, and quickly after many people didn't want it after he embarrassed the state several times (but overall did an ok job). His interview in Playboy where he said he wanted to be reincarnated as a bra comes to mind. I'm going to have to evaluate my politics from here on out because I'm super unamused at the DNC handling of the Hillary/Bernie stuff and that my elected officials did not stand up for the people in MN and follow their lead in the convention. I don't expect to always get what I want, but I expect people who we've hired to represent us to do so, and they did not.
Gratitude. I needed to hear that.
I've been in my feelings all morning, and that was the sandal slap I needed.
If it's any consolation, us Brits went through something similar with the Brexit result.
I heard on the news that the Republicans have control of both houses, does that put Trump in a stronger position?
Not necessarily. Trump is not driven by ideology and has no loyalty to the Republican establishment. In fact they fought his nomination. If we had to have a Republican in the White House out of the circus car full they picked from, he is actually the most likely to stand in the way of their most extreme wish list.
It will be interesting to see what happens. Will they block him? Despite sharing a party they have some substantial differences and quite a few of them didn't support Trump and what he was doing. How it'll play out, no one knows. However, I think they will come together in some things and I think it's likely they will approve whoever he puts up for the Supreme Court, which in the US is a lifetime appointment. Right now our court is split down the middle with 4 more liberal judges and 4 more conservative (generally speaking) and that will now be filled with another conservative. Hopefully he/she will be better than Scalia was. But Trump loved Scalia so I don't see that happening. It's quite possible he will fill more than one seat, as some of our justices are getting pretty old.
Understood.
I was astounded when Brexit happened. I then had to understand what had happened and why. America belongs to its people, not to Trump. You have nothing to be ashamed of, fearful of or embarrassed about. Politicians and other vested interests are always present. Great solutions and new directions and movements will emerge ...
Keep practicing. Be kind. America, Europe, Britain, great countries and continents. The past? Gone. Now we move on ...
I don't generally like Stephen Colbert, but...
Are we terrified of the other side, or of just the politics we've been convinced of on the other side? So many of us are afraid of the other side, it seems like that should be something we can work with. Hey, we have something in common. How can we reach a middle ground? So much of what our elections are based on isn't even real. It's all acting and posturing and manipulating. Now we get down to business. And neither side has a clue right now what that is even going to mean with Trump. Forward we go. There is no other choice. Sending courage and love out to the world. Fear is not a good place to be. We all need to be looking at our fear.
Two party systems are responsible for a lot of adversarial politics. I honestly think the whole thing works better in a multiparty format (see Germany).
I'd have to agree with that @Kerome I think proportional representation and coalition governments lead to better long term planning and stability. Change is slower, but better thought out.
Borat won. The kicker is that the people who elected him will have to live with him. They thought he's for putting people back to work, and for the little guy. They have no idea that he's one of the biggest abusers of the H1b visa system; he's imported thousands of Romanians to work in his hotels. He has a recruitment office in Bucharest. He won't hire American workers, because they're too expensive, and as he made abundantly clear, he refuses to even think about hiring Latin American workers.
Bernie, however, was not the better person for the job. He was all talk, no action. He's never gotten a single initiative of his even considered by Congess, let alone--approved. And when he visited the offices of the San Francisco Chronicle, whose staff was ready to promote him, he couldn't answer any of their questions as to how he would implement his plans. He wasn't familiar with the gov't offices and mechanisms needed to implement his measures. They weren't able to do their article, as a result. The staff was surprised and disappointed.
I thought O'Malley came out best in the Dem debates, but Hillary & The Bern were acting from the start as if they already had been chosen. O'Malley was providing detailed and thoughtful answers to the questions, while the other two were only speaking in slogans and sound bites, grinning for the cameras. It was weird. I still think O'Malley would have been best, and now even some Republicans are saying he would have been unbeatable.
I love that line, "It was embarrassing just to be sharing the same hemisphere"! There goes the neighborhood, as they say. My Canuck friends said droves of Americans crowded across the border after one (or both?) of the Bush elections. I wonder if the same will happen now. No one ever expected it could get worse than Bush!
Even Bush said this guy is f#cked.
Nobody expects him to be a good president except for the goons that like his sound bytes and that is the reason he's in. Just out of spite. Nobody wants to be told they have to vote for a war monger to defeat a loud mouth.
I do think Bernie would have won because he's as radical as Trump but the other way. The majority simply didn't want business as usual and that's what they would have gotten with Clinton. If the Berners voted for her she would have won.
What I'm worried about is the situation at Standing Rock.
I've got family there at the moment and spoke with some of them this morning. The implications of Trump being the president-elect is not being ignored. We've got a couple of months though. At the moment however, the position of those I've spoken to is, "It's a good day to die." Perhaps that will change the closer we get to Armageddon I mean, the day Mr. Trump takes office.
Obama still holds the reigns at the moment and he could do something if he wanted to. Maybe he'll pull it off fast, who knows?
Let's not forget there are still dealings with Saudi Arabia and they have like zero human rights so we can't say the current administration would be ethical to the point of going against self interest. Oil is oil, right?
Obama seems like a good guy but he's still a cog in the machine whereas Bernie or even Trump (perhaps to his chagrin) are wrenches in the gears.
It will be interesting to see the machine twist.
Well, Obama is still Pres., so the situation at Standing Rock can't get too bad. One hopes. Plus, the tribe has a lawsuit going through federal court to halt the action, so we'll see what happens with that. Of course, it's outrageous that the Republicans have held up Obama's Supreme Ct. nominee. That's hijacking government, basically.
Many of the Berners did vote for Hillary. Analysis showed that young people voted overwhelmingly for Hillary in nearly every state. And yes, I've been wondering why the same people who rallied to Trump didn't go for Bernie earlier on. I think that would have entailed Republicans going over to a Dem, which usually only happens in desperate situations. But also, he's Jewish, and you know Trump stirred up the racist vote. arrgh!
Which brings me to one of my main concerns; civility in public discourse will now be out the window. I've noticed a heightened nastiness on political forums since the election; people seem to feel like they've been given permission to lash out at moderates and liberals in a very nasty way. It's worrying. The candidate (and future President) has normalized outrageous talk, made it ok to blurt the worst that's on one's mind.
Part of the hemisphere is going to get rowdier. Hopefully, it will only last 4 years. shudder
Can a divided America heal?
Guys
Today I got my vote back. The local government after prompting from central government, decided that I could register for a postal vote, not be on a for-sale-open-database and not have to continually fill out the same form for these basic facilities.
I unsubscribed from a fledgling political centrist movement that wishes to prop up existing politicos. I have become more political in the last few years. In the past I have voted Green but they never really recovered from David Icke being involved (he believes the Queen is a fish or a lizard or something or other). Now I will be supporting the efforts of Jeremy Corbyn, who by American standards is a Communist and leader of the opposition in the UK.
Some of you will have voted for Trump because change is required. That is still always true but the nature of political, social and spiritual change is up to us.
My feeling is that great social upheaval will lead to alternatives to the choices open to us. Please don't retreat from the lay path of Dharma.
Dharma is a friendly path. If I can befriend fish, hell realm sentients, crypto-fascists, communists, mad family, monks etc there is hope for all of us good and reasonably sane people ...
Don't believe what you think or feel. It is only hype.
Be well. Be hopeful. Be happy. You are valuable. Make a difference.
Iz my plan.
quite a few Bernie supporters swallowed the lump in their collective throats and voted Hillary. Because Bernie asked us to, and because of Trump. Where we lost is the young people. The millions of them who do not want to adopt the system we've been living in. They were on board heavily with Bernie. And we lost them. Hillary excited no one. She inspired little in anyone. Trump was just the opposite, crazy enough.
Update: Obama said very recently that we should honor Native Americans' sacred grounds and values, something like that. According to reports, Obama has the power to at least stay the pipeline construction until Trump gets in, but he hasn't chosen to exercise that power yet. So the protesters are waiting to see if he issues an executive order on their behalf. Even so, everything could, and probably will change after the new President is sworn in.
We never EVER lose our young people. They just grow up.
@karasti, fellow Berliners, brexiteers, Thumpers, Bambi Buddhists and practioners of refuge and kindness [ahem],
The world is complex and full of clowns [lobster raises guiltly claw] and people doing good and working towards an Independent State of Being (which I think is near Texas or it 'might not be in Kansas anymore') ...
That is why we practice. Hold certain Truths as self evident and support the greater good as we understand it.
Onward and upward. Always. Iz plan.
Some things are as predictable as the sunrise. Right now, everyone is shocked at Trump's win (even the ones who wanted him to win, but they won't admit it) and especially the people who make a living pretending to be political experts are telling you exactly why Hillary didn't win. The natural tendency when something that shocks you happens is to go over and over the event in your mind, and say "Well, if we'd only done this, or paid more attention to that... If only..."
It's all human nature. We are hardwired to seek out reasons so we can avoid unpleasantness in the future. It's how we survived in prehistoric times. "My family got deathly sick. Why? We ate those red berries for the first time yesterday. No more eating red berries!"
But when it comes to millions of people acting together, there is no one reason we can pin down and no one person or group to blame. Sure, if the past was changed, it would change the future in some way. If different people ran for office, then of course someone different might have been elected. If the FBI director had not been a Republican who saw an opportunity to meddle... If only... If only...
Life is Dukkha. In times that cause distress go back and take refuge in Buddha and the basics. Buddhism is more than a philosophy, more than a type of meditation. It is a refuge. Sure, when things are going the way you like, you can play around with questions about reincarnation and levels of meditation. But at times like this, what would Buddha say? "Weren't you listening? What did I tell you? Did I not make myself clear? Life is Dukka! I didn't say we could change the world! Look to your own mind and change yourself!"
That doesn't mean to give up. When the boat springs a leak, you don't say the problem is, you have a desire not to drown. You bail like hell while realizing sooner or later, all boats leak and need repaired. And just like all those other leaks that got patched up eventually, we'll fix this one too.
Hope this helps.
@lobster I only meant in terms of the democratic part lost them as voters. Almost every young person my son's age (20ish) i know, either didn't vote, or voted 3rd party. Not that voting 3rd party is bad, I'm not saying that. Nor am I saying those inclined to 3rd party should vote otherwise. But most of them made it a protest vote for not getting Bernie as the democratic nominee. They aren't lost of course. The party lost their votes and that is a big part of the reason Clinton lost some of her key states that have historically been democratic states. Because all those young people who flung Bernie to the top during primaries in those states, didn't vote for the democratic nominee. And often out of spite for the DNC and their shenanigans.
Yes, there were some 3rd party voters and write-in voters, but election stats show that in all but 3 states, young people under about 35 voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. The stats don't show how many stayed home/didn't vote. But she carried the vote of those who showed up. Young people were MUCH more consistent nation-wide in their vote for Hillary than older people.
45% of America stayed home. I should have been clearer that I meant specifically in the states where Bernie won primaries, not country-wide. States in the upper midwest that are almost always blue states and Bernie won handily yet they voted for Trump. It wasn't because those Bernie fans in MI and WI went out to vote for Trump. Quite a few counties within those states have historically been blue counties. Strongly. They flipped red this time, and it's not because a lot of people who supported Obama in 2012 suddenly supported Trump. It was like the opposite of the last election, where more red voters stayed home because Romney was a less than ideal candidate. Voter turnout that in states did vote for Clinton was down almost 3% while turnout in states that voted for Trump was about the same. She did not have as much support as she should have in traditionally blue states in the midwest and I think the young vote is a big part of that. In addition to that, red voters who have sat out the past election or 2 because the red candidate was the equivilant to them as Clinton was to a lot of democrats this time.
In conversations locally, I honestly cannot think of a single person age 18-24 (who I keep tabs on because they are my son's age and I know a lot of them) who was a Bernie fan who voted for Hillary. Not that that is a large sample size, lol, but looking at online comments over the month it wouldn't surprise me to see that as a trend in that young age group.
NYTimes columnist David Brooks wrapped up his latest column with the observation,
Ladbrokes, the largest betting establishment in Great Britain, puts the odds of Trump leaving office "via impeachment or resignation before end of 1st term" at 3/1.
Resignation sounds possible: A guy like Trump likes to sleep in after acknowledging a steady regimen of accolades. What's a bully to do when he achieves what he claims to have wanted to achieve. He stiffed his workers in the past. Is there some reason to suppose he will not stiff the American public as well?
One thing we know is that if Clinton won, there would be a war brewing with Russia mainly over globalization attempts by big banks.
I don't really know what to make of Trump. I have a feeling at least half of his over-the-top chauvinism, bigotry and other idiocy was staged to get the dumb apes to vote for him. I have a feeling the ones that were on board with that schtick are going to be the ones that are most disappointed. Like I have the feeling things like the "wall" are going to be metaphors.
People think he hates immigrants but his wife is one. People thinks he hates women but his campaign manager is the first woman to successfully run a presidential run.
I heard that he's even thinking of keeping Obamacare and expanding on it and that his hotels have always allowed the transgender to use whatever bathroom they want.
I'm just sitting here trying to make sense of it all while hearing the many reports of violence from the Dems and I'm a fairly liberal Canadian.
It's interesting because photos of him since the election he looks different. I don't mean in a good or bad way, just...different. I don't know if he's crapping his pants, less stressed, more stressed, or what. But different. Did I happen to mention, different?
Tee Hee! Do you have the saying in USA, 'a weak is a longing time in politics?' - eh ... a week is a long time in politics ...
'The times they are a changing ... '
Lovely pic from @karasti of two hell dwellers happily on their way to the hell realms ... bless their little used hearts ...
People are terrified that Trump has been elected president.
Watching Trump lately, I get the impression that he is one of those terrified people. The stuff he said in the campaign reflects not his mastery of reality, but his mastery of showmanship. Now he has the intimidating responsibility of not blowing up the world, and he appears to realize it. Everything changed with that stunning vote, EVERYTHING. I don't think there will be an actual wall. I don't think that Hillary will go to jail. I don't think Obamacare will be scrapped. It was all showmanship. He said it because he knew it would resonate; he had not a care at all about whether it was true. I don't think he expected to actually win, and have to actually chart a direction for the country. That's what's different. Yesterday circus barker. Tomorrow president. He will age greatly, very greatly indeed, before inauguration. And I've never, ever, seen a president-elect who so very desperately needs to rapidly gather some age, wisdom, maturity, and vision.
He may surprise everyone yet. He didn't become this successful in business by being an entire moron....
Buddhist teachers respond to Trump win on Lions Roar
buddhist teachers respond to news of trumps presidential win
The general consensus of opinion seems to be, "Hold fast, Live in the Present, This Too Shall Pass." I'm on board with that.
@kerome -- Amazing to notice how sincerely this gathering uses the word "we."
"We" is a binding word, an inviting word, a word that seems to promise, a soothing and healing word. And yet there is scant attention paid to the in-your-face dis-ease which this easing word addresses.
What "we" is anyone talking about so blithely? Until that question is honestly assessed, there is something wobbly about the assessments... at least from where I sit. Is my broken arm less painful because "we" acknowledge how painful it is? Like any other kid, when I was little I would run to my mother when I scraped a knee ... and she would "kiss it better." But for how long does anyone rely on being a kid?
Just noodling.
Not sure if this is what @genkaku is getting at, but it reminded me and is a worthwhile read. It's long, get a cup of tea and sit down for a while though. It's a worthy read. I had a few tears yesterday reading it, realizing that I did some of these things. It's one of those articles you have to read open-minded and let go of your "but isn't that how it really is?" ideas. Good stuff.
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
My favorite kind of article, when a source that generally leans one way takes a position against its own side. It feels more likely to be true to me.
When I read or listen to sources from the left and the right it sounds like largely the same framework only with different ideologies inserted in the blanks then backed up with reasons. The difference seems to be largely in the emotional quality, the right is angry and the left is smug.
In that the article takes a shot at smugness and lack of empathy towards conservatives by liberals I can get on board. When it goes after "good knowledge" though I'm not sure I can buy in fully. Liberals can cling to certain ideas even if they aren't true or conditional but I still think there must be some ideas and information that are better or truer than others.
The article was written back in April but here is one prescient paragraph.
He has had 6 bankruptcies. He used the bankruptcy laws as an economic tool.
@Steve_B I don't think he expected to win, either. Now that he's won, he has to figure out what to do.
There may not be a wall. He doesn't want to pay for it, and he's said he would slash tax revenues, so he's cutting expenses as well. Also, he's said the wall would only be on a certain part of the border in Texas, not the entire length of the border. Still, even a short-ish leg of it would be very expensive.
@karasti I haven't analyzed the vote, and the youth vote, in WI and MI, but election analysts have said that if those states and Pennsylvania didn't have a winner-take-all system, Hillary would have had enough EC votes to win the election. She won in some key urban precincts there, apparently, as well as a few more rural ones, or suburban ones, or something. So there's much discussion now about changing the winner-take-all law in the states that have it (which are the majority), rather than doing away with the EC altogether.
@Dakini yes, changing the EC would be a much easier task, it could be like NE and ME have-split electorates. Doing away with it all together would involve changing the constitution so that would be a much bigger undertaking. I assume it could be altered without changing the constitution anyhow, since those couple of states do it.