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I think the best book I've read on the topic is The Art and Science of Low Carb Living by Phinney and Volek. They are both scientists who have done loads of studies, and they self-published the book to avoid publishers controlling what is said. They talk a lot about the history of the study that started this whole ball rolling, and the people who had known long ago that it wasn't true and what happened to those people and why they couldn't get a foothold anywhere. A lot of it was, and still is, government control. Very interesting book, it is a lot of the science behind why low carb works, which is really what I wanted to know versus a book that is half recipes and watered down science because publishers think we're too stupid to understand.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Well, go figure...I'm sticking with a lo-carb-hi-fat regime and have neither put on, nor lost weight.... but hubby is going great guns and has lost almost a stone. We weighed him 2 weeks into our change of diet, and he had already lost some weight, noticeably. Since we bought scales, he's lost a further 5 lbs, and has reached the last notch in his belt - something he has never achieved until now.
He wants to get down to 13st 7lbs, and is currently at 14:2.
He's eating a greater variety of veg, and enjoying food more. He still years some good ol' cakes and doughnuts - but doesn't crave them, as such.... And having gone away to visit relatives for 3 days, he remarkably stuck to eating 'the right things' and feels justifiably proud for doing so.
it is possible your body just doesn't have the weight to lose. I'm a bit unclear on it but there is increasing evidence that our bodies have a set-point weight that they prefer to stick it. over time, this can be adjusted, but I believe it takes a matter of months.
We went back on our low carb diet a few weeks ago, I've lost about 12 pounds (half of that water...your body stores water to facilitate carb use) but I had a stomach bug for almost all of last week. Despite managing only about 600 calories a day for several days, my weight hardly changed, lol. Now I've been famished for several days which has been a challenge to maintain my low carbness. I actually went back up to 50-60g to allow for more fruit because I've been craving it like mad since I was sick. Seems to finally be evening out a little today. Worst timing for a stomach bug, it took days before I could even think of eating protein or fat. Drank a lot of homemade broth, lol.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
It's possible, yes.... the menopause does weird things to you.... I am, I think, exactly the right weight, but I just need to grow a foot taller....
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
According to a height/weight chart, I'm only about 2-and-a-half pounds heavier over my 'acceptable' weight range. But I tell ya - shifting these last couple of pounds has been a source of frustration for a couple of weeks, now..
I was on an extreme nearly zero carb diet and hence high fat/protein diet for two years as part of an anti-candida process.
I was never hungry. No tea or coffee, sugar or very little fruit or lactose/milk (high in sugar). Only fresh veg and salad. Cutting fruit is not good and I did eat blueberries occasionally and some fresh tomatoes. Had to take megavitamins/mineral supplemants to make up for no fruit.
The cure worked and I lost weight and never had heartburn again. Candida taught me the importance of the gut/colon. It was a strange diet. Extreme portions of garlic. I reeked of it. Vampires avoided me like the plague ...
@lobster. When our innards are happy we are happy. Slavery to laxatives and various products for indigestion is a clear sign of internal dysfunction. From my point of view our bowel transit times are too slow due to insufficient bulk and fiber. I'm happy you no longer have heartburn. Those two years of your anti-candida process I'm thinking will have life long benefits.
Very true@grackle. The best fibre is in fruit and veg ... and porridge. On the candida front, I learned the importance of probiotics. For example a simple salad of raw onions, cucumber and toms in yogurt. I only used yogurt quite late in my treatment but I was heading away from terminal system failure ...
Really interested in changing my diet for the better. I dont smoke or drink alcohol but my weakness is for sweet food/ sugar and carbs. I am just about the right BMI maybe a little over but I know my "junk" intake needs to cut out. I eat good food at main meals but its in between meals I need to address. Very interested in high fat low carb diet. Any evidence that the high fat negatively impacts on cholesterol levels? I will look for the book recommended above. Thank you @karasti
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@Hozan said:Any evidence that the high fat negatively impacts on cholesterol levels?
Indeed, what @federica says. Dietary cholesterol and serum (blood) cholesterol are not actually linked at all really. Your body produces cholesterol on its own, and often in response to the damage that high carb diets do to the vascular system. So actually problems with cholesterol and clogged arteries are much more linked to high carb. You do want to focus on healthy fats though. Too many low carbers I know focus on processed meat which is awful for you. Olives, olive oil, avocados, avocado oil, healthy fish (if you eat it), etc. I eat a lot of avocados. Like 3-4 a week. Eggs. Nuts and seeds (more of the kind that are not roasted and full of salt)
The whole "eating fat makes you have heart attacks" is about as valid as vaccines causing autism. It has been debunked by many, many studies at this point over the past 20 years. Unfortunately, it takes an eternity to get new information into the hands of people who make official recommendations, and the sugar lobby is huge and powerful. They have actually paid scientists to change their findings. Thus our government still recommends a 2000 calories diet with 65% coming from carbs. That is way way way too much for the average person. Especially when most of it comes from processed junk.
I have a huge sweet tooth too @Hozan! I still enjoy a treat, I just make sure it fits into my day which helps me to make better choices. Last night I had some dark chocolate squares with nut butter. They taste SO much better when you have them as a treat anyhow. I don't crave things like pastries and cake anymore (thank goodness, I'd eat half a cake). You can make things like chocolate mousse as low carb as well. The hardest for me is eating out (depending on the place) and worse eating, eating with family. I hate constantly getting the "well that doesn't sound healthy" lectures. But the "diet" speaks for itself.
For me, I was always a healthy weight, until I had my last son 8 years ago. The weight simply didn't come off. I did everything possible for working out and dieting for years and it did nothing. Low carb is the only thing that works for me, and I assume a lot of that has to do with my many years of high carb (mostly junk, cereal, poptarts, that kind of stuff) eating caught up with me and messed up my hormonal and metabolic processes. Which is very common. My oldest son eats a ridiculously gross diet, he is 20 and of course sees no harm from it because he is very active. I told him it'll catch up to him. It always does.
Hi @karasti . Thank you so much. Plenty food for thought there if you'll pardon the pun. Yes I need to get going with this. I have a way higher carb intake than i should
According to a height/weight chart, I'm only about 2-and-a-half pounds heavier over my 'acceptable' weight range. But I tell ya - shifting these last couple of pounds has been a source of frustration for a couple of weeks, now..
The closer you are to your target weight, the tougher it is to lose weight. As opposed to very overweight types, who seem to lose it very easily to begin with, on lchf.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Aaaargh!! So near and yet so far!! pass the spirulina, nettle, broccoli and brussel sprout smoothie!!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2017
Actually, this evening's dinner was a major success, not to say triumph. Seriously. I was trepidatious, but miracle of miracles.....
stuffed Romano peppers with cauliflower rice.
My H hates peppers.
he hates Cauliflower.
He polished the lot off in double-quick time, and 'fessed up he really thought it was tasty!
Oh man I love cauliflower! Even my husband likes that. We use it for "pizza" crust, and in place of baked potatoes, and all sorts of other things.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I actually blitzed a whole head of cauliflower, but removed the stalks as i found, by whizzing them separately that actually, they were a bit more watery, so left them out. I'll boil them up for soup or something.... I got an additional 6 100g bags which are now in the freezer... by additional, I mean to the amount we ate this evening. 100g each was ample. so that made 800grammes in all. I'm stunned at just how good it tasted!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Anyone seen this, already? Apparently, available on netflix and other sources (Amaz. Prime, YouTube) and I'm going to make it a viewing 'Must' for hubby and me...
I have seen it @federica. Very well made/watchable/entertaining AND most importantly really important for our mental and physical well being.
One of the things I learned on the anti-candida diet is that fat does break down into sugars but slowly. I used a lot of coconut oil in the past but now use virgin olive oil but not to cook unless gently. Same with proteins, they become sugars even slower. Refined sugar, honey, fructose (yes in fruit smoothies) are drugs ...
Strangely the excellent avocado is something that makes me feel sickly. Must research why. Parsnips are sweet. Sweet potatoes are sweet. Pumkin is sweet.
You can improve your health dramatically with diet ... or ...
Everyone's bodies are different, some of that is a result of our lifestyles and environment and some is due to genetics. Someone who hails from Pacific Islands is going to be adapted to a different diet than someone from the Arctic Circle. That plays a part, too. Many people do just fine with carbs for their whole life. Others do not. Often times you can stay low carb for a while and then find your allowable point is higher and you won't gain weight. For people who are overweight and struggle with metabolic issues (about 25% of the population and a large % of overweight and obese people) carbs make matters worse.
I personally don't demonize fruit, I just keep it reasonable and make sure they fit into my overall goals for variety and carb intake as well as trying to stick to fruits that are more native to my northern genetics. So I eat mainly apples (usually a half at a time) and berries. But how fruit impacts others will vary as well. I eat fruit most days, 90% of it blueberries and raspberries that were foraged and frozen. Today I am having a kale salad with apple, but only half an apple. A healthy person isn't going to get unhealthy by eating too much fruit. I actually know a diabetic (type 1) who is a fruitarian. he eats SO much fruit. And takes less insulin than my 8 year old. We're all just so very different, and finding what works for us and not worrying about everyone else is key.
Edited to add that I enjoy experimenting with myself, so I've tested comparable carb intake of fiber-y fruits versus other things of similar carb intake but less fiber (and even processed foods with similar fiber) and the impact on blood sugar is markedly different when it is plant fiber versus fake or processed fibers added into things like Wheat Thins to make them look healthier than they are. Raspberries for example are about 12g of carbs for a cup, but 6g of that is fiber and the body responds very different (my body I mean, as well as my son) very differently to them than to 12g of processed carbs with or without similar fiber content. Some fiber will still raise the blood sugar. Other will not. Plant roughage generally doesn't so you are pretty safe in subtracting fiber gram content from total carb content and then using the net carbs. Actually if we dont' do this appropriately, then our son gets too much insulin and his blood sugar goes low.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I just made myself some of this stuff but used half-and-half coconut flour and almond flour. Doing it this way, you can definitely taste the coconut - not sure hubby would like them as he really doesn't like coconut all that much. Came out like a sponge cake.... quite nice, if I say so myself.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Just made myself a sandwich; doubled the quantities, but stuck to almond flour... added a tbsp of chia seeds.... 'baked' it in 2 separate containers of the same size, and when cooked, spread both with goat's cheese and smoked salmon. I'm full!
oh I love smoked salmon so much. This is a good time of year to cold smoke so I should have my husband make some.
I like chia in my smoothies and salad but for the life of me I don't understand how people enjoy the texture of the gelled seeds. I know people who put them in water to gel and "drink" it. It totally grosses me out. I know how good they are for a person but the gel thing just does not work for me, Sometimes when I eat them in a salad, one gets stuck in a tooth and I don't notice until it gels up and feels like a booger or something.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Eeeew! I know what you mean! However, I love eggs in aspic and savoury jellies so I'm not too bad.
I no longer eat oysters, because much as I loved them in my pre-Buddhist days, I was aware, even then, that I had killed every one, simply for my immediate gratification... But I was put off from eating them completely, many years ago, by a comedian who likened eating them to 'licking phlegm off a tortoise'. It made me feel totally sick, and I couldn't face one for a very long time - !
@federica when I was a teenager we were on a family camping trip and brought a friend. We dared each other to eat canned oysters. Oh gawds it was awful. We were told "you just let them slide down your throat, don't chew them or even feel them." what is the point!? Ew
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Can't believe how 'into' this, I am getting.... have discovered the wonder of BPC - and I have to say, ghastly as it might sound, it actually tasted thoroughly delicious! Made a freshly-brewed cup of coffee with 2tbsps of butter, and 2 of coconut oil - both organic - and whizzed them all together like crazy! drank it down and was stunned by how delicious I found it! No sweetener added, but a good pinch of cinnamon - and goodness, I feel full. Don't want to eat a thing, right now!
My H is delighted to have reached the milestone 14st mark (14st and half a pound!) - and I am literally hovering on the 9st and falling threshold! (USA: 14st = 89.01kg, 196lbs; 9st = 57.4kg, 126lbs.)
I put grassfed butter and coconut oil in my coffee, too I don't need anything for breakfast otherwise most days. Once I tried it without mixing well and the glop of fat on the top kind of grossed me out while I was drinking, so good mixing is called for for sure!
My husband is doing amazingly well. He started lifting weights at work 3 days a week, and has lost 34 pounds/15kg in the past 8 weeks, most of it in the last 4 weeks which has been since we started low carbing. I've lost 12 pounds/5.4kg in the past 4 weeks, much of that water the first week of course. But quite happy and satisfied on the low carb diet and causes neither of us any problems with cravings anymore.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I'm informed by an organic manufacturer local to us that they supply my local supermarket with 75% grass-fed goat's butter... I might try it out; I am fortunately quite fond of goat-flavour dairy...
My H was reading a friend's posts on FB, who is apparently proud of having lost 28lbs in 4 months! And he exercises, as well, whereas my H, due to his sedentary job, doesn't get the opportunity to do much intense stuff. He says he wants to start going for long walks on his days off; at work, and he's realised he can do 3 flights of stairs without losing his breath - two steps at a time, even....
There will come a time, particularly when we travel to Italy on holiday (first one n 8 years!!) that there will be a huge variety of Carbs coming our way, bread and pasta being the two main staples in Italy, as many will be very much aware.... I, right now, as a true red-white-and-green-blooded Italian, can't even think of looking at a plate of pasta - and to think that only around a month ago, I would have been salivating! The thought of it now, leaves me cold, almost shuddering.
My H is all too aware that as he is a diabetic, if he succeeds in kicking his type 2 into the touchline, he is going to have to be ultra-cautious about his intake, and eliminating whatever sinks his ship....
This evening, we ate a tuna steak (OMG, how delicious was that - succulent and mouth-watering enough to rival ANY rare beef fillet!) green salad with home-made dressing, and stilton cheese and walnut garnish, followed by home-made yoghurt with blue and blackberries and strawberries, topped with a generous spoonful of clotted cream (!)... Of course, "Old Way Of Thinking" would have suggested that was an enormously fattening and highly toxic dessert.
"New Way Of Thinking" knows otherwise....!
Tuna steaks are divine, so not like cans or packets of shredded tuna! I still sometimes struggle with the idea of fat being bad. I know it's not true, and I can tell based on how I feel. But boy that paradigm is hard set and hard to break.
I was just reading this evening about what happens when you fall off the wagon for even just a day and eat higher carbs than your threshold. Ugh. Most people gain water weight back within 2-3 days, and even if they go back to low carb right away, it takes a few days of dealing with the rise in insulin again (so carb cravings, again). That's for people who still have metabolic issues, not everyone. We are going to Hawaii for 10 days in June and trying to decide how to handle the eating part. Breakfast and lunch are easy and we will be eating in our resort and/or picnic style, so we will be buying groceries. But dinner will be eating out. Vacation is the reason I fell off the wagon last year. Sigh. We are going with several other family members so decisions about where to eat will be made as a group and I hope I do better than last time.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited April 2017
I think, in a way, it's a bit like an alcoholic climbing on the wagon; as this is @Tosh's thread, I think he might agree; he himself admits to having "an addictive Personality".
But you know, after discovering how toxic and addictive Sugar is, that pretty much includes an awful lot of us to one degree or another; so, as a campaign for "Kids against Drugs" went a few years ago, here, "Just say 'No'! "
As with any addiction and/or circumstance, it's a whole lot easier said than done; At home, you can be Master of all you Survey.
Out with a host of people, the going gets much tougher. When everyone's doing it, due to ambience, circumstance, pressure, conforming, the inclination is to fall in with the rest of 'em and not stand out from the crowd.
But just imagine; if you succumb to just one portion of carbs (drink) that's going to set you back a whole month or so.
Willpower, I guess. And the readily visible evidence that this lifestyle change is unquestionably better than anything else you could ever do for yourself.
My H was saying last night that he's slowly transforming his mind-set from one of "once I reach my target, I can...." to "This is it, and no going back" ...." He sees poor dieting and sugar everywhere, now, and is frankly appalled by the eating habits of others....And while he still misses all that stuff, he now sees it more and more as his body's enemy.
He works in an office environment. He works with people who bring in starchy snacks, sweets and chocolate, and who regularly find any excuse for a celebratory cake, muffins, doughnuts or cupcakes. And to his credit - and I don't say that lightly; I am truly proud of the guy - he's turned down every single treat. he even took some chocolate we had here at home, to the office. it's lain there untouched for weeks. And as he said, picking it up, we're not intending to have it.
He worked last Sunday. The skeleton staff in at the time, decided to do a "McDonald's Run". Burgers all round. He, yearning for even a tiny morsel of a Big Mac - declined the group eat-in.
And yes, he got the classic "Oh come on, one burger's not going to hurt you!" line....
I'm surrounded, in the kitchen, by packs of Italian pasta. Of course I am, I'm a damn Italian! It's dawned on me that all that is going to have to go. All of it.
I already cleared out my freezer of stored bread (various types; Pittas, crumpets, wraps and a sourdough sliced loaf) and gave those to my grateful neighbour. ("Here, you have the life-threatening starch; I don't want it!" )
(I can't bear the waste, so I'm happy to give it to those who will use it.... but is it a charitable kindness, or a cruel enablement...? See? Whatever you do, even with the best of intentions, carries a consequence...!)
I have a cherry tree outside in my garden, just coming into bloom; I'm already looking forward to the autumn harvest and making cherry jelly. Composed of... what? Oh yes. Mainly sugar. So that's a no-brainer, then!
My understanding is that once a messed up metabolic system is repaired, most people can maintain their health and weight with a higher carb intake (such as 100g a day) but that whatever that number is varies widely by person. One person might find they reset their metabolic function after a couple years and then can eat 125g of carbs without consequence,and others will find they can only eat 50. For me, at the state my body is in right now metabolically that of course is not possible. But for me, if my carb intake goes about 75g, then I start the insulin rollercoaster and it doesn't matter to my body whether I am eating pastries or brown rice, despite what the experts might say. Yes, the brown rice is still healthier by far, of course. But as far as how my body processes it and the effect it has on my weight, it is no different.
I can't lie, sometimes I have a pity party yet. It goes away quickly but the thought of not eating certain things perhaps ever again does make me a bit sad. Like lasagna. Or normal pizza. Of course, I can work either into my carbs in a small serving if I plan the rest of my day well. But I don't do 1 small piece of pizza. I eat half the pizza. Or 3 pieces of lasagna, and once I start eating it, yep, it's just like an alcoholic with their first beer. "Why on earth would you have just one!?" It's interesting to me that food has that impact on me, because while addition does run rampant in my family, I've never, ever had an issue with alcohol or pain meds or anything else. Just food. But never to a place where I went completely off the deep end either, so I am thankful my hormonal balance somehow kept things in place well enough to avoid eating thousands of calories a day.
Heaven for my sister is a good book and a bag of chips. Its the only junk she craves. Her husband eats all sorts of junk and keeps his weight steady. This in spite of a journey from very active to coach potato on his part.
@grackle it's unlikely it still stay that way forever. I ate plenty of junk much of my life, and it's like a switch was flipped when I had my last son. It took 30 years of eating like crap for it to catch up to me. It's taken another 10 years to find what works to make a dent in it (despite largely giving up the junk several years ago). That said, men's bodies are also quite different in their hormonal makeup, and pregnancy and menopause wreak havoc on our hormonal systems which can impact the hormones that regulate our eating needs as well. Some people manage to eat crap for a very long time and do alright. We're all different. My grandma smoked 2-3 packs of cigs a day for more than 60 years and never got cancer. She lived on frozen pot pies and diet coke for many years after her kids grew up and left home. She lived to be 90 and kept her mobility and mind about her until the last year or so before she passed. She had to have major surgery for a bowel obstruction and the recovery was very long and arduous and took a lot out of her. We decided all the diet coke probably preserved her
My bil is fast approaching 91. However on the good side of the ledger he does not smoke or drink. My sister says he has been a non drinker/smoker for the 60 years they have been married. Eats junk every day. Keeps the pantry well stocked with goodies much to my sisters dismay.
I think our needs change vastly when we get into our more elderly years. The ability to keep up fat stores gets really hard. Lots of old people eat a lot of junk, I'm sure in part because it's so much work to cook most things. If you can microwave a tv dinner or a cup of ramen, why not? For me at this point in my life (I am 41 and have 3 children) I have an obligation to my family to take care of myself, and I prefer to feel good. I'm sure our view of what all the means and how we feel about what makes us feel good changes vastly over the years. My dad's mother-in-law just passed the other day at 97 and spent many many years in awful shape because she didn't believe in eating fatty foods, so she didn't partake of any dairy or many other foods that would have ensured her bone health. Instead she dealt with constant broken bones and other issues related to a long period of low vitamin d and iron.
I guess for me, looking forward, I would like as many good years as I can get. I don't want to be someone who reaches 65 and gets cancer and dies 2 years after retirement. Sometimes it happens no matter what, but I don't want to be 65 looking back and wishing I ate better so I could live to see my grandkids grown up. But I don't believe in forsaking everything that gives us pleasure in the name of health, either. Because pleasure is part of our experience and part of our health. To live a life feeling like you are punishing yourself in the name of health isn't healthy either. For me at this point in my life, I will forego some of the things I previously thought of as pleasurable foods to get a longer period of more sustainable pleasure in other areas of my life, like being able to go hiking and camping.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited April 2017
@karasti said: @grackle it's unlikely it still stay that way forever. I ate plenty of junk much of my life, and it's like a switch was flipped when I had my last son. It took 30 years of eating like crap for it to catch up to me. It's taken another 10 years to find what works to make a dent in it (despite largely giving up the junk several years ago).
I am fortunate in that I have two very food-conscious parents; both my mother AND my father were food fanatics; they joined the 'Slow Food Movement' and everything, right down to chicken stock was made from scratch. "Fast Food" and all the associated 'crap' we think of as convenience and bad stuff, never, but never made its way into pour home. Perish the thought.
They enjoyed all kinds of good food, and plenty of it. Of course, that included a whole load of starch in whatever form you can think of - but it was so delicious, you couldn't imagine, ever, that it could possibly be bad for you!
Ironically, as my father got older and his health deteriorated, he was given foods which were apparently better for him, easier to digest, more nutritious... yeah, you guessed it. Mainly starchy stuff; porridge, rice, small pasta pieces in broth, mashed potatoes....
I think it quietly and secretly dawns on my mother - who is a very latent type II - how the good intentions she had, and the care she took of my dad (selflessly, devotedly) might have in some way actually hastened his demise, rather than relieved it or slowed it down.... I pray it doesn't weigh heavy on her, but that's the way she is....
That said, men's bodies are also quite different in their hormonal makeup, and pregnancy and menopause wreak havoc on our hormonal systems which can impact the hormones that regulate our eating needs as well.
Women also have a different type of fat around their pelvic area, although the notion that we 'need' this fat to support our pelvic girdle and contain our reproductive organs, is by and large, a total load of codswallop - rubbish in which sadly, until recently, I had faith in and believed.
It turns out that the reason menopausal women carry more fat, i simply that our metabolism slows down alarmingly during menopause, affected as it is by hormonal changes; so losing the excess baggage is harder for us, not because we should have that fat, but because thanks to Biological nature, we're stuck with it.
But it can be shifted, and I am proof positive of that.
Some people manage to eat crap for a very long time and do alright. We're all different. My grandma smoked 2-3 packs of cigs a day for more than 60 years and never got cancer. She lived on frozen pot pies and diet coke for many years after her kids grew up and left home. She lived to be 90 and kept her mobility and mind about her until the last year or so before she passed. >She had to have major surgery for a bowel obstruction and the recovery was very long and arduous and took a lot out of her. We decided all the diet coke probably preserved her
Such things are also maybe down to lifestyle and genes; but no doubt, it has some level of detrimental effect. Of that, I have no doubt. My H is still determined to stop smoking but if he's focused on one objective, well, let's just say he's not a multi-tasker!
Something amusing happened today; I went out with Mother to a garden centre to buy myself a 'Birthday gift' because, well, it's gardening, innit...? And we decided to have a coffee.
My mum thought it might be nice to have a bite to eat; but of all the different offerings on the menu (and there was quite a bit) 2 dishes only were no carb; and they were salads.
The waitress (a slip of a girl, probably in 6th form [that makes her 17, 18 yrs old... what's the USA equivalent?] and obviously, nutrition wasn't her choice Uni subject!) asked what we wanted. My mother in mock disgust, declared that she didn't want anything, and "she..." flipping her hand dismissively in my direction "is on a no-carbohydrate diet!" The waitress suggested that I "have a baked potato...oh, no hang on...." then suggested I have some toast, as the bread was Gluten-Free. I had a hard time keeping a straight face.....
ETA: In the end, she suggested the stews and meat dishes ("Today's Specials") on the Blackboard... Beef stew - and dumplings, Chicken - and chickpea casserole, or lamb curry - with potatoes.
We stuck to coffee.....
Then, ( à propos of nothing in particular) during our small 'macchiato', she lowered the tone by reciting a poem she remembered. I have put that in the 'Just for fun...announcements' thread, but let's just say the afternoon deteriorated, after that.....
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited April 2017
Gonna make some Bone Broth.... Oooh, Missus, hark at her!
@federica oh indeed. She couldn't walk far without being out of breath, COPD no doubt or emphysema. They also suggested her bowel issues were probably related to smoking. They were amazed she didn't have cancer but she is not an example of how I'd like to feel in old age. The years of smoking and diet coke did a number on her bones, as well.
Consumes far too little fiber, both soluble and insoluble.
Is likely deficient in magnesium, vitamin D, and vitamin K2.
Likely has an unfavorable omega-6 : omega-3 ratio.
Depending on local water supply, lacks the necessary trace amounts of lithium.
Consumes far too much sodium, which is why the new potassium recommendation is at a whopping 4.7g daily. That's 7 avocados or 11 bananas.
Amongst other problems. The importance of fiber, though, cannot be overstated. The intestinal microbiome has a profound effect on body composition, inflammation, and genetic expression. Fermentation of resistant starches and inulin results in notably higher plasma levels of butyric acid (butyrate), which has widespread effects throughout the body, including the brain. It's capable of turning genes on and off, particularly in the colon. Sodium butyrate, a synthesized version, is actually used as a medicine in psychiatry.
@Tosh (or anyone else) I'm still reading through Phinney and Volek's book and have read a lot over the years of Mark Sisson's stuff, but the more I read the more I get sense that it has more to do with your carb ratio compared to fat and protein rather than just the amount. Most things you read are pretty set with a 30-50g recommendation for "optimal results" but I am starting to think this is based mostly on whatever they have in mind for total calories and thus that is the ratio that works out. Have you read anything about that? It might be in this book but I haven't gotten there yet if it is.
For example, yesterday was a really low calorie day for me. No particular reason, just wasn't all that hungry and most of what I ate was lower calorie. My carbs were 25% of my diet once dinner was over, even though I was only at 17g. It seemed to me that having the higher amoutn of carbs in relation to my overall macro intake might be more of an issue than the gram measurement. Any thoughts? I had a few boiled eggs and it evened out back to 16%. My goals are 15% carb, 25% protein, 60% fat. I came in at 16, 27 and 57 respectively which wasn't too bad considering I only too in 900 calories lol. That's not a normal day for me, but looking at it made me curious about whether grams carries more weight that the ratio between the macros. I suspect not. I more typically eat 1500-1600 calories a day. I know you don't track this stuff Tosh, lol, but just curious if you've read anything to that regard.
It also seems to match up with how zach Bitter can have been tested to be using ketones for his running fuel while eating more than 100g a day. A lot of LCHF people poopoo him because of that despite his results and lab tests. But when taken in consideration with how many calories he is eating as an endurance athlete, I'd bet it's his ratio is still within that much smaller range. Compared to if I ate 100g a day on my 1500 calories. There are days my calories change majorly, like yesterday. Other days I might take in 2100 calories because I am on a day long hike. It seems like it would be natural to have more carbs on those days as long as it's around the 15% mark and still not see impacts of eating more carbs. But my logic might not turn out, lol.
Hi karasti, sorry, I can't help you; I've never looked into it at the same level of depth as yourself.
I did go through a phase of counting carbs and calories to lose weight, which worked (we kept it under 20g of carbs per day) but now we're both in maintenance, so we don't.
We just eat LCHF. We don't weigh, measure or count anything.
One of the reasons we did this was that it's meant to be great for endurance athletes, and last weekend Mrs Tosh put it to the test and came 1st lady (10th overall out of a field of 251 other runners) at a coastal ultra marathon, 33.6 miles.
Rather than relying on limited glycogen stores and having to re-fuel, she ate very little and relied on her fat.
She won a bit of Welsh slate, like a rooftile, and a £30.00 voucher for a running shop:
Her recovery seems to be better too; less muscle soreness. Fat is supposedly a cleaner burning fuel. Could be bro-science though!?
According to a height/weight chart, I'm only about 2-and-a-half pounds heavier over my 'acceptable' weight range. But I tell ya - shifting these last couple of pounds has been a source of frustration for a couple of weeks, now..
The closer you are to your target weight, the tougher it is to lose weight. As opposed to very overweight types, who seem to lose it very easily to begin with, on lchf.
I didn't find that to be true, when I did this type of diet years ago. In fact, I overshot my goal by about 6 lbs. I think if someone finds the process slowing down toward the end, they could cut back on the fat content to keep the momentum going. And weight-bearing exercise is key, of course.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
"Macronutrients are what make up the caloric content of a food," says McMahon. Sometimes referred to as "macros," the three categories of macronutrients are carbohydrates, fat, and protein. The caloric combination of the macros is where that mysterious total number of calories comes from. Here's the breakdown:
1 gram of carbohydrates = 4 calories
1 gram of fat = 9 calories
1 gram of protein = 4 calories
Yes, that part I understand. I'll try to be better about my question, lol, I ramble a lot!
At 1500 calories, I stick to under 56g of carbs, which is 15% of my diet.
But Zach Bitter who is an athlete eats more like 110g of carbs. But he eats a lot more calories, so his % of his diet that is carbs is probably equal or more likely less than mine.
When you read a lot of resources, books or online, almost all of them specify that you should eat 30-50g of carbs or less (depending on the source) to be most efficient at burning fat. But I am assuming those numbers are based on a standard amount of calories and they are really suggesting that carbs should be a certain % of your total calories but try to simplify it because that's what sells books. But if you are better off figuring out your calories and then making sure your carbs fall below a certain % of it rather than a set # that helps explain why some people don't have such good success on what they believe is low carb. If they are eating 50g of carbs and only eating 1200 calories, it's quite possible that # of carbs is too many as a ratio portion of their total calories. If that makes sense?
I guess my question is, wouldn't a person be better off determining what is ideal for them using a % of their total calories as carbs rather than a set amount since the amount of calories people are eating varies SO much?
Mostly asking because I am considering how to manage my running in the summer, since I don't intend to do heart rate training. If I can continue to lose weight as long as my carbs are 15% or less of my total calorie intake, then shouldn't that translate even if my calories go up because of my running? Or am i really supposed to stick to the 56g of carbs whether I eat 1200 calories, 1500 calories, or 2000 calories? I question whether the common method of setting a hard amount of carbs is actually helpful compared to figuring out what % of your total calories should be carbs.
Sorry, that was so not brief, LOL. I'm not sure I explained it any better though.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
In answer to your question, I think, Yes.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Ok, I'm suffering from a mild case of doofus-confusion. @Tosh , @karasti , can you help me out here...?
Question 1:
Tomato passata: per portion, there are 6.2 carbs.
Of which sugars are - 6.2.
Yet there is 2.9 fibre.
That's confusing me. If Fibre passes through undigested, is the carb reading correct?
Question 2:
Carbs 20.5
of which sugars 7.5
(that leaves 13.0 carbs)
Fibre 4.4
What is the remaining 8.6....?!
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Ok I admit it, I looked into this area in quite a lot of detail a few years ago but I never got as fanatic about as you all seem to have done.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited April 2017
I'm not fanatical. I'm dedicated. I'm not a person that does things by halves.
But if there is some information to be had, that might make the understanding of the subject better, then I'd like it.
Besides, why not stick to something that works, if you know it works, you've proven to yourself it works, it does you good, makes you feel better, and improves your lifestyle...?
Kinda like Buddhism, in a way.
Buddhism cuts the crap, gets to the issue, deals with things head-on.
Sugars on a label include added sugars, and natural sugars (from dairy and fruit). Fiber of course is the nondigestible portion. The remaining carbs are from flour or other grains/starches. The first one I'm not sure. I wonder if they automatically subtract the fiber since it doesn't really count as far as carb counting goes? It seems to me that the total carb count should be 9.1. That is how it would work on our labels anyhow, lol.
@Kerome Not really fanatic. But if you want low carb to work for you, you have to get it right. "Kinda" doing low carb doesn't work for someone who has metabolic problems. For me, I need to lose my extra weight. I don't have a ton, but enough that over the 8 years it impacts my joints and I don't want it to impact my health. It becomes automatic the more you do it, but the first few weeks and even couple of months are a lot of learning how your body responds and how to manage it all. This is the only thing that works for me. But because I like to experiment a nagging part of me wanted to know if being vegetarian or vegan would have similar or better results. So I had to try that, too. It didn't, lol. So I went back.
For my part, I find it all utterly fascinating. Not just low carb stuff, but everything about nutrition and movement. The topic encompasses probably 75% of my reading these days. There are so many interactions between our bodies and everything we do with them and I love learning about every single little one of them.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited April 2017
@karasti, apparently, labelling differs between the UK and USA. Some Google searching tells me that the carb count on USA labels, the fibre count needs to be deducted.
UK labelling gives carb content PLUS fibre content - so no deduction is necessary.
USA:
16.5g carbs
9g fiber
so that would be 7.5g carbs.
UK:
16.5g carb
9g fibre
Total carbs (excluding sugar, for these purposes) = 25.5g
Comments
I think the best book I've read on the topic is The Art and Science of Low Carb Living by Phinney and Volek. They are both scientists who have done loads of studies, and they self-published the book to avoid publishers controlling what is said. They talk a lot about the history of the study that started this whole ball rolling, and the people who had known long ago that it wasn't true and what happened to those people and why they couldn't get a foothold anywhere. A lot of it was, and still is, government control. Very interesting book, it is a lot of the science behind why low carb works, which is really what I wanted to know versus a book that is half recipes and watered down science because publishers think we're too stupid to understand.
Well, go figure...I'm sticking with a lo-carb-hi-fat regime and have neither put on, nor lost weight.... but hubby is going great guns and has lost almost a stone. We weighed him 2 weeks into our change of diet, and he had already lost some weight, noticeably. Since we bought scales, he's lost a further 5 lbs, and has reached the last notch in his belt - something he has never achieved until now.
He wants to get down to 13st 7lbs, and is currently at 14:2.
He's eating a greater variety of veg, and enjoying food more. He still years some good ol' cakes and doughnuts - but doesn't crave them, as such.... And having gone away to visit relatives for 3 days, he remarkably stuck to eating 'the right things' and feels justifiably proud for doing so.
it is possible your body just doesn't have the weight to lose. I'm a bit unclear on it but there is increasing evidence that our bodies have a set-point weight that they prefer to stick it. over time, this can be adjusted, but I believe it takes a matter of months.
We went back on our low carb diet a few weeks ago, I've lost about 12 pounds (half of that water...your body stores water to facilitate carb use) but I had a stomach bug for almost all of last week. Despite managing only about 600 calories a day for several days, my weight hardly changed, lol. Now I've been famished for several days which has been a challenge to maintain my low carbness. I actually went back up to 50-60g to allow for more fruit because I've been craving it like mad since I was sick. Seems to finally be evening out a little today. Worst timing for a stomach bug, it took days before I could even think of eating protein or fat. Drank a lot of homemade broth, lol.
It's possible, yes.... the menopause does weird things to you.... I am, I think, exactly the right weight, but I just need to grow a foot taller....
According to a height/weight chart, I'm only about 2-and-a-half pounds heavier over my 'acceptable' weight range. But I tell ya - shifting these last couple of pounds has been a source of frustration for a couple of weeks, now..
I was on an extreme nearly zero carb diet and hence high fat/protein diet for two years as part of an anti-candida process.
I was never hungry. No tea or coffee, sugar or very little fruit or lactose/milk (high in sugar). Only fresh veg and salad. Cutting fruit is not good and I did eat blueberries occasionally and some fresh tomatoes. Had to take megavitamins/mineral supplemants to make up for no fruit.
The cure worked and I lost weight and never had heartburn again. Candida taught me the importance of the gut/colon. It was a strange diet. Extreme portions of garlic. I reeked of it. Vampires avoided me like the plague ...
The small amount of carbs was provided by lobster bread ... a sort of small fried chappatti
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/comment/431117/#Comment_431117
I am now making them with gram flour, which is more like a pancake batter ...
@lobster. When our innards are happy we are happy. Slavery to laxatives and various products for indigestion is a clear sign of internal dysfunction. From my point of view our bowel transit times are too slow due to insufficient bulk and fiber. I'm happy you no longer have heartburn. Those two years of your anti-candida process I'm thinking will have life long benefits.
Very true@grackle. The best fibre is in fruit and veg ... and porridge.
On the candida front, I learned the importance of probiotics. For example a simple salad of raw onions, cucumber and toms in yogurt. I only used yogurt quite late in my treatment but I was heading away from terminal system failure ...
Eat well. Get healthy. Iz plan.
Really interested in changing my diet for the better. I dont smoke or drink alcohol but my weakness is for sweet food/ sugar and carbs. I am just about the right BMI maybe a little over but I know my "junk" intake needs to cut out. I eat good food at main meals but its in between meals I need to address. Very interested in high fat low carb diet. Any evidence that the high fat negatively impacts on cholesterol levels? I will look for the book recommended above. Thank you @karasti
Au contraire...
https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/behindtheheadlines/news/2016-06-13-study-says-theres-no-link-between-cholesterol-and-heart-disease/
https://authoritynutrition.com/top-9-biggest-lies-about-dietary-fat-and-cholesterol/
Indeed, what @federica says. Dietary cholesterol and serum (blood) cholesterol are not actually linked at all really. Your body produces cholesterol on its own, and often in response to the damage that high carb diets do to the vascular system. So actually problems with cholesterol and clogged arteries are much more linked to high carb. You do want to focus on healthy fats though. Too many low carbers I know focus on processed meat which is awful for you. Olives, olive oil, avocados, avocado oil, healthy fish (if you eat it), etc. I eat a lot of avocados. Like 3-4 a week. Eggs. Nuts and seeds (more of the kind that are not roasted and full of salt)
The whole "eating fat makes you have heart attacks" is about as valid as vaccines causing autism. It has been debunked by many, many studies at this point over the past 20 years. Unfortunately, it takes an eternity to get new information into the hands of people who make official recommendations, and the sugar lobby is huge and powerful. They have actually paid scientists to change their findings. Thus our government still recommends a 2000 calories diet with 65% coming from carbs. That is way way way too much for the average person. Especially when most of it comes from processed junk.
I have a huge sweet tooth too @Hozan! I still enjoy a treat, I just make sure it fits into my day which helps me to make better choices. Last night I had some dark chocolate squares with nut butter. They taste SO much better when you have them as a treat anyhow. I don't crave things like pastries and cake anymore (thank goodness, I'd eat half a cake). You can make things like chocolate mousse as low carb as well. The hardest for me is eating out (depending on the place) and worse eating, eating with family. I hate constantly getting the "well that doesn't sound healthy" lectures. But the "diet" speaks for itself.
For me, I was always a healthy weight, until I had my last son 8 years ago. The weight simply didn't come off. I did everything possible for working out and dieting for years and it did nothing. Low carb is the only thing that works for me, and I assume a lot of that has to do with my many years of high carb (mostly junk, cereal, poptarts, that kind of stuff) eating caught up with me and messed up my hormonal and metabolic processes. Which is very common. My oldest son eats a ridiculously gross diet, he is 20 and of course sees no harm from it because he is very active. I told him it'll catch up to him. It always does.
Hi @karasti . Thank you so much. Plenty food for thought there if you'll pardon the pun. Yes I need to get going with this. I have a way higher carb intake than i should
I> @federica said:
The closer you are to your target weight, the tougher it is to lose weight. As opposed to very overweight types, who seem to lose it very easily to begin with, on lchf.
Aaaargh!! So near and yet so far!! pass the spirulina, nettle, broccoli and brussel sprout smoothie!!
Actually, this evening's dinner was a major success, not to say triumph. Seriously. I was trepidatious, but miracle of miracles.....
stuffed Romano peppers with cauliflower rice.
My H hates peppers.
he hates Cauliflower.
He polished the lot off in double-quick time, and 'fessed up he really thought it was tasty!
(See recipe thread for what I did....)
Oh man I love cauliflower! Even my husband likes that. We use it for "pizza" crust, and in place of baked potatoes, and all sorts of other things.
I actually blitzed a whole head of cauliflower, but removed the stalks as i found, by whizzing them separately that actually, they were a bit more watery, so left them out. I'll boil them up for soup or something.... I got an additional 6 100g bags which are now in the freezer... by additional, I mean to the amount we ate this evening. 100g each was ample. so that made 800grammes in all. I'm stunned at just how good it tasted!
Anyone seen this, already? Apparently, available on netflix and other sources (Amaz. Prime, YouTube) and I'm going to make it a viewing 'Must' for hubby and me...
I have seen it @federica. Very well made/watchable/entertaining AND most importantly really important for our mental and physical well being.
One of the things I learned on the anti-candida diet is that fat does break down into sugars but slowly. I used a lot of coconut oil in the past but now use virgin olive oil but not to cook unless gently. Same with proteins, they become sugars even slower. Refined sugar, honey, fructose (yes in fruit smoothies) are drugs ...
Strangely the excellent avocado is something that makes me feel sickly. Must research why. Parsnips are sweet. Sweet potatoes are sweet. Pumkin is sweet.
You can improve your health dramatically with diet ... or ...
Everyone's bodies are different, some of that is a result of our lifestyles and environment and some is due to genetics. Someone who hails from Pacific Islands is going to be adapted to a different diet than someone from the Arctic Circle. That plays a part, too. Many people do just fine with carbs for their whole life. Others do not. Often times you can stay low carb for a while and then find your allowable point is higher and you won't gain weight. For people who are overweight and struggle with metabolic issues (about 25% of the population and a large % of overweight and obese people) carbs make matters worse.
I personally don't demonize fruit, I just keep it reasonable and make sure they fit into my overall goals for variety and carb intake as well as trying to stick to fruits that are more native to my northern genetics. So I eat mainly apples (usually a half at a time) and berries. But how fruit impacts others will vary as well. I eat fruit most days, 90% of it blueberries and raspberries that were foraged and frozen. Today I am having a kale salad with apple, but only half an apple. A healthy person isn't going to get unhealthy by eating too much fruit. I actually know a diabetic (type 1) who is a fruitarian. he eats SO much fruit. And takes less insulin than my 8 year old. We're all just so very different, and finding what works for us and not worrying about everyone else is key.
Edited to add that I enjoy experimenting with myself, so I've tested comparable carb intake of fiber-y fruits versus other things of similar carb intake but less fiber (and even processed foods with similar fiber) and the impact on blood sugar is markedly different when it is plant fiber versus fake or processed fibers added into things like Wheat Thins to make them look healthier than they are. Raspberries for example are about 12g of carbs for a cup, but 6g of that is fiber and the body responds very different (my body I mean, as well as my son) very differently to them than to 12g of processed carbs with or without similar fiber content. Some fiber will still raise the blood sugar. Other will not. Plant roughage generally doesn't so you are pretty safe in subtracting fiber gram content from total carb content and then using the net carbs. Actually if we dont' do this appropriately, then our son gets too much insulin and his blood sugar goes low.
I just made myself some of this stuff but used half-and-half coconut flour and almond flour. Doing it this way, you can definitely taste the coconut - not sure hubby would like them as he really doesn't like coconut all that much. Came out like a sponge cake.... quite nice, if I say so myself.
Just made myself a sandwich; doubled the quantities, but stuck to almond flour... added a tbsp of chia seeds.... 'baked' it in 2 separate containers of the same size, and when cooked, spread both with goat's cheese and smoked salmon. I'm full!
oh I love smoked salmon so much. This is a good time of year to cold smoke so I should have my husband make some.
It totally grosses me out. I know how good they are for a person but the gel thing just does not work for me, 
Sometimes when I eat them in a salad, one gets stuck in a tooth and I don't notice until it gels up and feels like a booger or something. 
I like chia in my smoothies and salad but for the life of me I don't understand how people enjoy the texture of the gelled seeds. I know people who put them in water to gel and "drink" it.
Eeeew! I know what you mean! However, I love eggs in aspic and savoury jellies so I'm not too bad.
I no longer eat oysters, because much as I loved them in my pre-Buddhist days, I was aware, even then, that I had killed every one, simply for my immediate gratification... But I was put off from eating them completely, many years ago, by a comedian who likened eating them to 'licking phlegm off a tortoise'. It made me feel totally sick, and I couldn't face one for a very long time - !
@federica when I was a teenager we were on a family camping trip and brought a friend. We dared each other to eat canned oysters. Oh gawds it was awful. We were told "you just let them slide down your throat, don't chew them or even feel them." what is the point!? Ew
Can't believe how 'into' this, I am getting.... have discovered the wonder of BPC - and I have to say, ghastly as it might sound, it actually tasted thoroughly delicious! Made a freshly-brewed cup of coffee with 2tbsps of butter, and 2 of coconut oil - both organic - and whizzed them all together like crazy! drank it down and was stunned by how delicious I found it! No sweetener added, but a good pinch of cinnamon - and goodness, I feel full. Don't want to eat a thing, right now!
My H is delighted to have reached the milestone 14st mark (14st and half a pound!) - and I am literally hovering on the 9st and falling threshold! (USA: 14st = 89.01kg, 196lbs; 9st = 57.4kg, 126lbs.)
I put grassfed butter and coconut oil in my coffee, too
I don't need anything for breakfast otherwise most days. Once I tried it without mixing well and the glop of fat on the top kind of grossed me out while I was drinking, so good mixing is called for for sure!
My husband is doing amazingly well. He started lifting weights at work 3 days a week, and has lost 34 pounds/15kg in the past 8 weeks, most of it in the last 4 weeks which has been since we started low carbing. I've lost 12 pounds/5.4kg in the past 4 weeks, much of that water the first week of course. But quite happy and satisfied on the low carb diet and causes neither of us any problems with cravings anymore.
I'm informed by an organic manufacturer local to us that they supply my local supermarket with 75% grass-fed goat's butter... I might try it out; I am fortunately quite fond of goat-flavour dairy...
My H was reading a friend's posts on FB, who is apparently proud of having lost 28lbs in 4 months! And he exercises, as well, whereas my H, due to his sedentary job, doesn't get the opportunity to do much intense stuff. He says he wants to start going for long walks on his days off; at work, and he's realised he can do 3 flights of stairs without losing his breath - two steps at a time, even....
There will come a time, particularly when we travel to Italy on holiday (first one n 8 years!!) that there will be a huge variety of Carbs coming our way, bread and pasta being the two main staples in Italy, as many will be very much aware.... I, right now, as a true red-white-and-green-blooded Italian, can't even think of looking at a plate of pasta - and to think that only around a month ago, I would have been salivating! The thought of it now, leaves me cold, almost shuddering.
My H is all too aware that as he is a diabetic, if he succeeds in kicking his type 2 into the touchline, he is going to have to be ultra-cautious about his intake, and eliminating whatever sinks his ship....
This evening, we ate a tuna steak (OMG, how delicious was that - succulent and mouth-watering enough to rival ANY rare beef fillet!) green salad with home-made dressing, and stilton cheese and walnut garnish, followed by home-made yoghurt with blue and blackberries and strawberries, topped with a generous spoonful of clotted cream (!)... Of course, "Old Way Of Thinking" would have suggested that was an enormously fattening and highly toxic dessert.
"New Way Of Thinking" knows otherwise....!
Tuna steaks are divine, so not like cans or packets of shredded tuna! I still sometimes struggle with the idea of fat being bad. I know it's not true, and I can tell based on how I feel. But boy that paradigm is hard set and hard to break.
I was just reading this evening about what happens when you fall off the wagon for even just a day and eat higher carbs than your threshold. Ugh. Most people gain water weight back within 2-3 days, and even if they go back to low carb right away, it takes a few days of dealing with the rise in insulin again (so carb cravings, again). That's for people who still have metabolic issues, not everyone. We are going to Hawaii for 10 days in June and trying to decide how to handle the eating part. Breakfast and lunch are easy and we will be eating in our resort and/or picnic style, so we will be buying groceries. But dinner will be eating out. Vacation is the reason I fell off the wagon last year. Sigh. We are going with several other family members so decisions about where to eat will be made as a group and I hope I do better than last time.
I think, in a way, it's a bit like an alcoholic climbing on the wagon; as this is @Tosh's thread, I think he might agree; he himself admits to having "an addictive Personality".
But you know, after discovering how toxic and addictive Sugar is, that pretty much includes an awful lot of us to one degree or another; so, as a campaign for "Kids against Drugs" went a few years ago, here, "Just say 'No'! "
As with any addiction and/or circumstance, it's a whole lot easier said than done; At home, you can be Master of all you Survey.
Out with a host of people, the going gets much tougher. When everyone's doing it, due to ambience, circumstance, pressure, conforming, the inclination is to fall in with the rest of 'em and not stand out from the crowd.
But just imagine; if you succumb to just one portion of carbs (drink) that's going to set you back a whole month or so.
Willpower, I guess. And the readily visible evidence that this lifestyle change is unquestionably better than anything else you could ever do for yourself.
My H was saying last night that he's slowly transforming his mind-set from one of "once I reach my target, I can...." to "This is it, and no going back" ...." He sees poor dieting and sugar everywhere, now, and is frankly appalled by the eating habits of others....And while he still misses all that stuff, he now sees it more and more as his body's enemy.
He works in an office environment. He works with people who bring in starchy snacks, sweets and chocolate, and who regularly find any excuse for a celebratory cake, muffins, doughnuts or cupcakes. And to his credit - and I don't say that lightly; I am truly proud of the guy - he's turned down every single treat. he even took some chocolate we had here at home, to the office. it's lain there untouched for weeks. And as he said, picking it up, we're not intending to have it.
He worked last Sunday. The skeleton staff in at the time, decided to do a "McDonald's Run". Burgers all round. He, yearning for even a tiny morsel of a Big Mac - declined the group eat-in.
And yes, he got the classic "Oh come on, one burger's not going to hurt you!" line....
I'm surrounded, in the kitchen, by packs of Italian pasta. Of course I am, I'm a damn Italian! It's dawned on me that all that is going to have to go. All of it.
)
I already cleared out my freezer of stored bread (various types; Pittas, crumpets, wraps and a sourdough sliced loaf) and gave those to my grateful neighbour. ("Here, you have the life-threatening starch; I don't want it!"
(I can't bear the waste, so I'm happy to give it to those who will use it.... but is it a charitable kindness, or a cruel enablement...? See? Whatever you do, even with the best of intentions, carries a consequence...!)
I have a cherry tree outside in my garden, just coming into bloom; I'm already looking forward to the autumn harvest and making cherry jelly. Composed of... what? Oh yes. Mainly sugar. So that's a no-brainer, then!
My understanding is that once a messed up metabolic system is repaired, most people can maintain their health and weight with a higher carb intake (such as 100g a day) but that whatever that number is varies widely by person. One person might find they reset their metabolic function after a couple years and then can eat 125g of carbs without consequence,and others will find they can only eat 50. For me, at the state my body is in right now metabolically that of course is not possible. But for me, if my carb intake goes about 75g, then I start the insulin rollercoaster and it doesn't matter to my body whether I am eating pastries or brown rice, despite what the experts might say. Yes, the brown rice is still healthier by far, of course. But as far as how my body processes it and the effect it has on my weight, it is no different.
I can't lie, sometimes I have a pity party yet. It goes away quickly but the thought of not eating certain things perhaps ever again does make me a bit sad. Like lasagna. Or normal pizza. Of course, I can work either into my carbs in a small serving if I plan the rest of my day well. But I don't do 1 small piece of pizza. I eat half the pizza. Or 3 pieces of lasagna, and once I start eating it, yep, it's just like an alcoholic with their first beer. "Why on earth would you have just one!?" It's interesting to me that food has that impact on me, because while addition does run rampant in my family, I've never, ever had an issue with alcohol or pain meds or anything else. Just food. But never to a place where I went completely off the deep end either, so I am thankful my hormonal balance somehow kept things in place well enough to avoid eating thousands of calories a day.
Heaven for my sister is a good book and a bag of chips. Its the only junk she craves. Her husband eats all sorts of junk and keeps his weight steady. This in spite of a journey from very active to coach potato on his part.
@grackle it's unlikely it still stay that way forever. I ate plenty of junk much of my life, and it's like a switch was flipped when I had my last son. It took 30 years of eating like crap for it to catch up to me. It's taken another 10 years to find what works to make a dent in it (despite largely giving up the junk several years ago). That said, men's bodies are also quite different in their hormonal makeup, and pregnancy and menopause wreak havoc on our hormonal systems which can impact the hormones that regulate our eating needs as well. Some people manage to eat crap for a very long time and do alright. We're all different. My grandma smoked 2-3 packs of cigs a day for more than 60 years and never got cancer. She lived on frozen pot pies and diet coke for many years after her kids grew up and left home. She lived to be 90 and kept her mobility and mind about her until the last year or so before she passed. She had to have major surgery for a bowel obstruction and the recovery was very long and arduous and took a lot out of her. We decided all the diet coke probably preserved her
My bil is fast approaching 91. However on the good side of the ledger he does not smoke or drink. My sister says he has been a non drinker/smoker for the 60 years they have been married. Eats junk every day. Keeps the pantry well stocked with goodies much to my sisters dismay.
I think our needs change vastly when we get into our more elderly years. The ability to keep up fat stores gets really hard. Lots of old people eat a lot of junk, I'm sure in part because it's so much work to cook most things. If you can microwave a tv dinner or a cup of ramen, why not? For me at this point in my life (I am 41 and have 3 children) I have an obligation to my family to take care of myself, and I prefer to feel good. I'm sure our view of what all the means and how we feel about what makes us feel good changes vastly over the years. My dad's mother-in-law just passed the other day at 97 and spent many many years in awful shape because she didn't believe in eating fatty foods, so she didn't partake of any dairy or many other foods that would have ensured her bone health. Instead she dealt with constant broken bones and other issues related to a long period of low vitamin d and iron.
I guess for me, looking forward, I would like as many good years as I can get. I don't want to be someone who reaches 65 and gets cancer and dies 2 years after retirement. Sometimes it happens no matter what, but I don't want to be 65 looking back and wishing I ate better so I could live to see my grandkids grown up. But I don't believe in forsaking everything that gives us pleasure in the name of health, either. Because pleasure is part of our experience and part of our health. To live a life feeling like you are punishing yourself in the name of health isn't healthy either. For me at this point in my life, I will forego some of the things I previously thought of as pleasurable foods to get a longer period of more sustainable pleasure in other areas of my life, like being able to go hiking and camping.
I am fortunate in that I have two very food-conscious parents; both my mother AND my father were food fanatics; they joined the 'Slow Food Movement' and everything, right down to chicken stock was made from scratch. "Fast Food" and all the associated 'crap' we think of as convenience and bad stuff, never, but never made its way into pour home. Perish the thought.
They enjoyed all kinds of good food, and plenty of it. Of course, that included a whole load of starch in whatever form you can think of - but it was so delicious, you couldn't imagine, ever, that it could possibly be bad for you!
Ironically, as my father got older and his health deteriorated, he was given foods which were apparently better for him, easier to digest, more nutritious... yeah, you guessed it. Mainly starchy stuff; porridge, rice, small pasta pieces in broth, mashed potatoes....
I think it quietly and secretly dawns on my mother - who is a very latent type II - how the good intentions she had, and the care she took of my dad (selflessly, devotedly) might have in some way actually hastened his demise, rather than relieved it or slowed it down.... I pray it doesn't weigh heavy on her, but that's the way she is....
Women also have a different type of fat around their pelvic area, although the notion that we 'need' this fat to support our pelvic girdle and contain our reproductive organs, is by and large, a total load of codswallop - rubbish in which sadly, until recently, I had faith in and believed.
It turns out that the reason menopausal women carry more fat, i simply that our metabolism slows down alarmingly during menopause, affected as it is by hormonal changes; so losing the excess baggage is harder for us, not because we should have that fat, but because thanks to Biological nature, we're stuck with it.
But it can be shifted, and I am proof positive of that.
Such things are also maybe down to lifestyle and genes; but no doubt, it has some level of detrimental effect. Of that, I have no doubt. My H is still determined to stop smoking but if he's focused on one objective, well, let's just say he's not a multi-tasker!
Something amusing happened today; I went out with Mother to a garden centre to buy myself a 'Birthday gift' because, well, it's gardening, innit...? And we decided to have a coffee.
My mum thought it might be nice to have a bite to eat; but of all the different offerings on the menu (and there was quite a bit) 2 dishes only were no carb; and they were salads.
The waitress (a slip of a girl, probably in 6th form [that makes her 17, 18 yrs old... what's the USA equivalent?] and obviously, nutrition wasn't her choice Uni subject!) asked what we wanted. My mother in mock disgust, declared that she didn't want anything, and "she..." flipping her hand dismissively in my direction "is on a no-carbohydrate diet!" The waitress suggested that I "have a baked potato...oh, no hang on...." then suggested I have some toast, as the bread was Gluten-Free. I had a hard time keeping a straight face.....
ETA: In the end, she suggested the stews and meat dishes ("Today's Specials") on the Blackboard... Beef stew - and dumplings, Chicken - and chickpea casserole, or lamb curry - with potatoes.
We stuck to coffee.....
Then, ( à propos of nothing in particular) during our small 'macchiato', she lowered the tone by reciting a poem she remembered. I have put that in the 'Just for fun...announcements' thread, but let's just say the afternoon deteriorated, after that.....
Gonna make some Bone Broth.... Oooh, Missus, hark at her!
@federica oh indeed. She couldn't walk far without being out of breath, COPD no doubt or emphysema. They also suggested her bowel issues were probably related to smoking. They were amazed she didn't have cancer but she is not an example of how I'd like to feel in old age. The years of smoking and diet coke did a number on her bones, as well.
In my view, the average American:
Amongst other problems. The importance of fiber, though, cannot be overstated. The intestinal microbiome has a profound effect on body composition, inflammation, and genetic expression. Fermentation of resistant starches and inulin results in notably higher plasma levels of butyric acid (butyrate), which has widespread effects throughout the body, including the brain. It's capable of turning genes on and off, particularly in the colon. Sodium butyrate, a synthesized version, is actually used as a medicine in psychiatry.
@Tosh (or anyone else) I'm still reading through Phinney and Volek's book and have read a lot over the years of Mark Sisson's stuff, but the more I read the more I get sense that it has more to do with your carb ratio compared to fat and protein rather than just the amount. Most things you read are pretty set with a 30-50g recommendation for "optimal results" but I am starting to think this is based mostly on whatever they have in mind for total calories and thus that is the ratio that works out. Have you read anything about that? It might be in this book but I haven't gotten there yet if it is.
For example, yesterday was a really low calorie day for me. No particular reason, just wasn't all that hungry and most of what I ate was lower calorie. My carbs were 25% of my diet once dinner was over, even though I was only at 17g. It seemed to me that having the higher amoutn of carbs in relation to my overall macro intake might be more of an issue than the gram measurement. Any thoughts? I had a few boiled eggs and it evened out back to 16%. My goals are 15% carb, 25% protein, 60% fat. I came in at 16, 27 and 57 respectively which wasn't too bad considering I only too in 900 calories lol. That's not a normal day for me, but looking at it made me curious about whether grams carries more weight that the ratio between the macros. I suspect not. I more typically eat 1500-1600 calories a day. I know you don't track this stuff Tosh, lol, but just curious if you've read anything to that regard.
It also seems to match up with how zach Bitter can have been tested to be using ketones for his running fuel while eating more than 100g a day. A lot of LCHF people poopoo him because of that despite his results and lab tests. But when taken in consideration with how many calories he is eating as an endurance athlete, I'd bet it's his ratio is still within that much smaller range. Compared to if I ate 100g a day on my 1500 calories. There are days my calories change majorly, like yesterday. Other days I might take in 2100 calories because I am on a day long hike. It seems like it would be natural to have more carbs on those days as long as it's around the 15% mark and still not see impacts of eating more carbs. But my logic might not turn out, lol.
Hi karasti, sorry, I can't help you; I've never looked into it at the same level of depth as yourself.
I did go through a phase of counting carbs and calories to lose weight, which worked (we kept it under 20g of carbs per day) but now we're both in maintenance, so we don't.
We just eat LCHF. We don't weigh, measure or count anything.
One of the reasons we did this was that it's meant to be great for endurance athletes, and last weekend Mrs Tosh put it to the test and came 1st lady (10th overall out of a field of 251 other runners) at a coastal ultra marathon, 33.6 miles.
Rather than relying on limited glycogen stores and having to re-fuel, she ate very little and relied on her fat.
She won a bit of Welsh slate, like a rooftile, and a £30.00 voucher for a running shop:
Her recovery seems to be better too; less muscle soreness. Fat is supposedly a cleaner burning fuel. Could be bro-science though!?
Sorry I can't be more help with your question.
I didn't find that to be true, when I did this type of diet years ago. In fact, I overshot my goal by about 6 lbs. I think if someone finds the process slowing down toward the end, they could cut back on the fat content to keep the momentum going. And weight-bearing exercise is key, of course.
@karasti I don't know if this is of any help...?
Yes, that part I understand. I'll try to be better about my question, lol, I ramble a lot!
At 1500 calories, I stick to under 56g of carbs, which is 15% of my diet.
But Zach Bitter who is an athlete eats more like 110g of carbs. But he eats a lot more calories, so his % of his diet that is carbs is probably equal or more likely less than mine.
When you read a lot of resources, books or online, almost all of them specify that you should eat 30-50g of carbs or less (depending on the source) to be most efficient at burning fat. But I am assuming those numbers are based on a standard amount of calories and they are really suggesting that carbs should be a certain % of your total calories but try to simplify it because that's what sells books. But if you are better off figuring out your calories and then making sure your carbs fall below a certain % of it rather than a set # that helps explain why some people don't have such good success on what they believe is low carb. If they are eating 50g of carbs and only eating 1200 calories, it's quite possible that # of carbs is too many as a ratio portion of their total calories. If that makes sense?
I guess my question is, wouldn't a person be better off determining what is ideal for them using a % of their total calories as carbs rather than a set amount since the amount of calories people are eating varies SO much?
Mostly asking because I am considering how to manage my running in the summer, since I don't intend to do heart rate training. If I can continue to lose weight as long as my carbs are 15% or less of my total calorie intake, then shouldn't that translate even if my calories go up because of my running? Or am i really supposed to stick to the 56g of carbs whether I eat 1200 calories, 1500 calories, or 2000 calories? I question whether the common method of setting a hard amount of carbs is actually helpful compared to figuring out what % of your total calories should be carbs.
Sorry, that was so not brief, LOL. I'm not sure I explained it any better though.
In answer to your question, I think, Yes.
Ok, I'm suffering from a mild case of doofus-confusion. @Tosh , @karasti , can you help me out here...?
Question 1:
Tomato passata: per portion, there are 6.2 carbs.
Of which sugars are - 6.2.
Yet there is 2.9 fibre.
That's confusing me. If Fibre passes through undigested, is the carb reading correct?
Question 2:
Carbs 20.5
of which sugars 7.5
(that leaves 13.0 carbs)
Fibre 4.4
What is the remaining 8.6....?!
Ok I admit it, I looked into this area in quite a lot of detail a few years ago but I never got as fanatic about as you all seem to have done.
I'm not fanatical. I'm dedicated. I'm not a person that does things by halves.
But if there is some information to be had, that might make the understanding of the subject better, then I'd like it.
Besides, why not stick to something that works, if you know it works, you've proven to yourself it works, it does you good, makes you feel better, and improves your lifestyle...?
Kinda like Buddhism, in a way.
Buddhism cuts the crap, gets to the issue, deals with things head-on.
QED
Sugars on a label include added sugars, and natural sugars (from dairy and fruit). Fiber of course is the nondigestible portion. The remaining carbs are from flour or other grains/starches. The first one I'm not sure. I wonder if they automatically subtract the fiber since it doesn't really count as far as carb counting goes? It seems to me that the total carb count should be 9.1. That is how it would work on our labels anyhow, lol.
@Kerome Not really fanatic. But if you want low carb to work for you, you have to get it right. "Kinda" doing low carb doesn't work for someone who has metabolic problems. For me, I need to lose my extra weight. I don't have a ton, but enough that over the 8 years it impacts my joints and I don't want it to impact my health. It becomes automatic the more you do it, but the first few weeks and even couple of months are a lot of learning how your body responds and how to manage it all. This is the only thing that works for me. But because I like to experiment a nagging part of me wanted to know if being vegetarian or vegan would have similar or better results. So I had to try that, too. It didn't, lol. So I went back.
For my part, I find it all utterly fascinating. Not just low carb stuff, but everything about nutrition and movement. The topic encompasses probably 75% of my reading these days. There are so many interactions between our bodies and everything we do with them and I love learning about every single little one of them.
@karasti, apparently, labelling differs between the UK and USA. Some Google searching tells me that the carb count on USA labels, the fibre count needs to be deducted.
UK labelling gives carb content PLUS fibre content - so no deduction is necessary.
USA:
16.5g carbs
9g fiber
so that would be 7.5g carbs.
UK:
16.5g carb
9g fibre
Total carbs (excluding sugar, for these purposes) = 25.5g
I got the info from here. Interesting thread....