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Swim into the deepness of your mind?
kerance
Birmingham, UK Explorer
in Meditation
I went to a teaching & meditation last night and the first meditation involved the teacher telling us to see the mind like the ocean and we were to swim deep into it, watching the waves get further away - the waves were our thoughts.
Obviously, we're not to take this literally (or maybe I should have...?) but I definitely couldn't get my head around it. It was probably the most uncomfortable meditation I've done in a while.
Is there anyone who has tried this, or similar & can give me some advice for next time, please?
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Comments
I use a similar visualization but it's only that my thoughts are waves breaking on the shore. They come and go. This serves two purposes. One is that it separates me from my thoughts, as in I am not my thoughts. And it also helps to keep from focusing on them. As with waves to the shore, I don't control them. They just come and go. Ho-hum.
Thoughts come and go as passing waves - one rises and falls with them - observe this trend and maintain concentration - first stop swimming and allow yourself to relax into the rise and fall - then the analogy is to distance yourself from the results of the process as if diving below the waves - don't be fooled though, one may no longer perceive the undulations but the body of water is still the medium and still moving - this change in perception is achieved through practice and concentration as obviously there is no physical water to swim through / under - it takes time... keep at it.
I used to use a similar visualization of sinking down, down, down into the deep water until I would come to rest on the bottom, where all was silent, all was dark. I could see the light receding as I descended, but never tried to visualize any waves or disturbances of the surface - didn't need to, for I was drowning in those waves in "reality" and had no need to imagine them.
There was no swimming or struggling going on either, I simply would relax and allow myself to sink. The most effective visualizations are the simplest ones, in my experience.
I'm not sure I understand this approach. It might make more sense to say that thoughts are like the waves and ripples on the surface of the mind. You could imagine yourself standing in the surf, and feeling the waves ( thoughts ) as they pass through your legs. You can also be aware of changing states of mind.
Anyway, it's fine to experiment with this stuff, the aim is to find something that works for you, the simpler the better. Alternatively just look directly at your thoughts, see where they come from, see how they come and go, see how they rise and fall.
There is a point to this style of teaching. I don't want to destroy meditative techniques, but question whether you are on the quick, slow or middle path? In the fast path: and its just as full of weeds as the slow path (be prepared to become a horticultural engineer), when you follow it through you realise that you and your thoughts are actually inseparable; you can experience this - trying to push those thoughts away creates a problem, which can't be solved.
i.e. how do you separate the thinker from the thought - when you think it through, your thoughts derive an answer. Mind thoughts are Emanations of the Mind, its a blissful experience, when you realise the real you is the source of those thoughts or emanations.
ADVICE: don't try and bash the teacher - its up to you to realise these things, they are just pointing a Thinger... I'm now punishing YOU! Why did you go to the teacher?
Who am I?
good question...
Why did you go to the teacher to learn who you were?
These are just distant waves lapping on a distant desert island...
Who cares?
You?
Why?
Hhhhmmmm!
If you can't wrap your head around it, then you should find a meditation that you can. There is no reason to force some visualization that doesn't serve you. I've never actually heard of a meditation like this. What lineage does it come from?
Lineage?
Q. Is lineage important?
Yeah. It's pretty important. If you're a Buddhist your lineage should be a direct unbroken lineage from the Buddha. Even if you're not Buddhist you should care. Anyone can just make up something that sounds cool that's totally ineffective or possibly harmful. But you should just ask your teacher. They would know better than me.
I like what @satcittananda had to say.
Some of us rely on our connection to our future selves, our limited present or ungodly mind constructs ...
The 'dharma ocean' is our Nirvana home. Sometimes we are near the turbulence, sometimes the currents. It is our home ... well for us lobsters it is ...
Uncomfortable meditations are in essence like a stillness stirred. When doing this practice again, or any encountering with agitation ... remember the drops make The Ocean. The mind moving in waves is
Still
I'm sorry, you are both correct and incorrect.
It's only important if you think it is important. If your essential nature is buddha, you can never be disconnected from the ultimate teacher.
If, however, you have gone so far out on the limb of the tree of life sitting on edge of a leaf to feel you have become completely disconnected from the trunk, limb and earth and require a teacher to reconnect you, then yes you may need a teacher to say - 'look at you!
'
Have you realized your Buddha nature? No you haven't. Better get a teacher and stop being arrogant. You just juggle concepts around like you know something, but you're just full of shit.
Why is it that some people who purport to be religious have such difficulty letting go of views or even applying Right Speech?
I have absolutely no difficulty whatsoever of applying Right Action and in letting go. Of those people.
Because if they follow their path as dictated by the current leaders as most do, then they won't give credence to Buddhist teachings such as Right Speech. It's like asking you why don't you believe in Jesus as Saviour. It's pretty obvious to you why you don't right? Well apply that to non Buddhists not following any Dharmic teachings.
Please note I highlighted the current leaders. Most religious people don't bother to explore the teachings beyond the surface because they rely on the leaders to do the work for them.
Oh, I didn't expect this thread to go so wrong - I suppose that's what happens when an individual has a passion for something.
Thanks for the words @Gui, @Zero, @Fosdick. It's all be taken into consideration.
@SpinyNorman - observing how they rise and fall makes sense, thanks.
@satcittananda - I'm unsure if I've taken what you've said wrong but I wasn't trying to talk down regarding the teacher. It was my not understanding I was criticising.
@lobster - I take uncomfortable meditations as they are, a teaching coming from me - just with the actual teacher giving me a scenario - if that makes sense.
@Razor - I couldn't wrap my head around it, however, it was the first time I tried...I'm not going to just give up on it, I have a bit more mental strength than that. I've never claimed to be Buddhist - I just love what is taught and it's made me realise things about myself. Since starting to practice what I'm taught my life has slowly changed for the better.
The lineage is direct to Buddha Shakyamuni, but even if it's not - this is a meditation thread so I don't really see why that would matter. Unless this forum requires you to have an 'I'm a certified Buddhist' stamp on the hand, which I hope it doesn't because I'm not.
@kerance, I wouldn't give Razor another thought, if I were you. 'Passion' my foot. I banned him for his total lack of courtesy, manners and civility. He wasn't passionate, he was patronising. And he literally asked for it.
I hadn't even realised he was banned. shows how much attention I pay.
Have a lovely day
It makes sense.
It is I feel very important to understand that when we sit in discomfort, comfort, boredom, euphoria etc ... the sitting is very much the same. Fill the mind with an idea/visualisation etc and all kinds of responses are possible, confusion, insight, clarity, rejection, acceptance etc ...
lol
@kerance - taking a teacher is a personal thing, its your path!
I think @Razor needs a therapist perhaps rather than a teacher - so much anger!
I know he's banned but I just read it and I'm stunned by the blatant disrespect.
Water under the bridge, people.... Don't y'all still be carryin' that woman, now....
Answer 1:
... --- Silence --- ...
Answer 2:
I don't want to be silent! Let me comment...
Answer 3:
answer for me...
And that is how we have learned to swim in this deepest pool dharma friends.
Aww @ federica! give Razor another chance to engage productively. It may well be that in life he is brash and outspoken, and we may well as I have understood it, as a laid back online Sangha be able to accommodate his aspect. He is one of us isn't he?
Not any more. And to be honest, I don't think he ever was.
behaviour of that kind is totally unnecessary and completely unacceptable.
I like decisiveness. Perhaps I didn't see all of his posts (although as I'm trawling the lists realise you may be right) so won't comment further.