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No worries @Hozan! Others are still waiting for their copies as well. I think it will be nice to wait for everyone and then no one has to rush to catch up, or get influenced by our opinions if we discuss ahead of time.
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
edited June 2017
My Tibetan Buddhist 'not-so-basics' course has now finished, so the study group will hopefully fill up the empty space in my schedule. No sign of the book yet, it should be with me sometime next week... someone had to be last.
I've read up through Chapter 2 so far, which is the most interesting so far, IMO. That's enough for now. Such a small book to generate so much excitement!
@Dakini I find it interesting how much information can be packed into just a few lines. I wish I had that gift So far, for me (I am in the same place as you, I don't want to read too far ahead), it is a refreshing return to the ideas that brought me to Buddhism to start. I am not a big sutra reading person, but the whole line of this teaching just really "speaks" to me right now. It is funny how small it is to get everyone so excited!
Almost on chapter 4.
What I love till now, and that is consistent with the Buddha's teaching as I always knew it, is the emphasis in the here and now.
No reference to other lifetimes from his mouth, till now...??
The reading takes double time because I scribble notes into my beloved Fausböll oldie, and compare with yet another version that I downloaded...
I am an exacting fussy reader...
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Had a note from the book website that the "delivery service have taken charge of the package" so I can probably expect it tomorrow.
@DhammaDragon said:
Almost on chapter 4.
What I love till now, and that is consistent with the Buddha's teaching as I always knew it, is the emphasis in the here and now.
No reference to other lifetimes from his mouth, till now...??
Yes, that's what I found interesting. He said not to concern oneself with "becoming", and any afterlife or rebirth questions.
@DhammaDragon I too love taking notes though I usually just annotate extensively and sticky note.
I am waiting until we are all ready discussing before reading. I've only read the intro and chapter 1. I would like to go piece by piece until I've sufficiently bat the information around. Reminds me of reading groups I haven't been a part of since junior high!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Guys, I don't get paid until the 10th of the month.
That means I won't get the book until at least a week after that.
So start without me.
I can and will catch up.
If anything, discussion will broaden and expand my own understanding and absorption of the work.....
Let's call a last roll to see who is ready to begin and who would like to participate but does not have the book.
Shall we wait for those who don't have the book but would like to join?
This book is the16 poems with a small commentary by the author/translator before each one. We could still post a version of each Chapter poem on the thread in discussion. Others would still be able to participate in chewing the poem/teaching...just not his specific commentary on it, ...Is that where we are going with this? I'm bumping the book up against the version provided in the OP on Access to Insight...for those who don't have or can't get the book. Yes...Semantics and exact translations will always be something to go back and forth over...but....real talk-you don't HAVE to get the book to discuss the concept/teaching/lesson and what you take away.
On each Chapter thread...let's just start out posting the AtI version and more people could be included, without having to spend the money on the book. Comparisons of different versions could still apply as discussions and so on...
On this link...scroll down to Chapter 4...and there is each of the 16.
Ready to go here. Doesn't matter to me if we wait or not. I have been hesitant to read too much ahead just because it seems like perhaps there would be value in understanding individual chapters and then putting them all together, and having a perspective of the whole book might change my understanding of the individual chapters (if that makes any sense, lol)
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
My book is still in the mail... I spoke to the vendors today and their delivery service could take up to the end of next week because it's coming from the uk. Sigh.
I have the book. I stopped reading a little after Chapter 2.
I don't know if there's that much to say about each chapter, honestly. I'm thinking a more open discussion format might work best. We tried a book club once before, and it broke down, because there wasn't that much to say, in terms of analysis and step-by-step discussion. What do you think, OP?
I don't know what an alternative organizing principle might be. Maybe people could state which chapters stood out for them, and were most significant for them, and why, and the flow of the discussion could follow that. IDK. It's great that there's so much interest in the book, though!
Or maybe we could have some general study questions, like, "What surprised you about this book?" "How are the principles presented in the poems different from your view of Buddhism?" That sort of thing, and discussion could be based on those questions...?
For me, even though some chapters might generate a lot more discussion than others, it would be nice to keep them separate somehow. Even if we do like 4 sections that each contain 4 chapters? 16 discussions plus this one might be a lot to keep track of. I would have a hard time following a single discussion where everyone might be talking about one thing, but I want to ask about another chapter, and so on. It would mean a lot of jumping around between 16 distinct chapters in one discussion and might be hard to navigate? Or maybe we could break it down into the major headings that are covered, from @DhammaDragon's post earlier in this discussion:
Fronsdal finds four main thems in the book:
1) Letting go of views,
2) Avoiding sensual craving,
3) The qualities of a sage, and
4) The training to become a sage.
Maybe a paragraph introduction of where people come from in interest in the book? What made them interested and a little about themselves what brought them.
The only problem I see, even if we have the impression that some chapters do not have much food for discussion, is that to be able to discuss themes and broad general comments, we would all have had to finish the book.
Maybe we could follow the format that @karasti outlined above, as pinpointed in the book, encompassing themes and chapters:
1) Letting go of views (Chapters 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 11, 12 and 13)
2) Sensual Craving (Chapters 1, 2, 7 and 9)
3) Description of the Sage (Chapters 4, 6, 9, 10, 13 and 15)
4) Training (Chapters 14, 15 and 16)
We could create threads for each theme, and add to them as we read each chapter...
I like the broad, general topics approach. Maybe exploring a topic for a week, like Letting Go of Views to start?
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
The book has arrived....
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I second @karasti's idea of breaking down the threads by concepts rather than chapters.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Oh great. And here's me thinking this was going to be a simple chronology.... ~Rolleyes~
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
@person said:
I second @karasti's idea of breaking down the threads by concepts rather than chapters.
Won't that turn into a bit of a mess as different readers progress through different chapters and jump from topic to topic? At least with chapter-by-chapter threads you can read chronologically through the book and what people thought about it...
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@person said:
I second @karasti's idea of breaking down the threads by concepts rather than chapters.
Won't that turn into a bit of a mess as different readers progress through different chapters and jump from topic to topic? At least with chapter-by-chapter threads you can read chronologically through the book and what people thought about it...
Exactly. That's why I opened a thread for chapter 1, to be followed by threads on subsequent and following chapters, PLUS a thread for General discussion and different PoV's....
Either way is fine with me, I don't care. I just think things are going to run together amongst the 4 themes and that is going to make it hard to stick to one idea per chapter. Because stuff from the other chapters, as we keep reading, is going to come into play.
Comments
Morning!
I got my book.
I'll read the introduction, because I'm curious about the author's views.
My book is taking ages ??????????????????????????
Go on please everybody ! I will catch up when my book arrives.
No worries @Hozan! Others are still waiting for their copies as well. I think it will be nice to wait for everyone and then no one has to rush to catch up, or get influenced by our opinions if we discuss ahead of time.
Thank you @karasti . ❤❤❤???
i think i will follow the conversation,i don't know if i can get the book to participate.but will enjoy the discussion.
Just had an update from Amazon, the book has been dispatched today and may even arrive tomorrow before the weekend! Monday at the latest! ☺☺☺
The book has landed. ?
Me too! ☺☺ Book arrived this morning!
My Tibetan Buddhist 'not-so-basics' course has now finished, so the study group will hopefully fill up the empty space in my schedule. No sign of the book yet, it should be with me sometime next week... someone had to be last.
I've read up through Chapter 2 so far, which is the most interesting so far, IMO. That's enough for now. Such a small book to generate so much excitement!
@Dakini I find it interesting how much information can be packed into just a few lines. I wish I had that gift
So far, for me (I am in the same place as you, I don't want to read too far ahead), it is a refreshing return to the ideas that brought me to Buddhism to start. I am not a big sutra reading person, but the whole line of this teaching just really "speaks" to me right now. 
It is funny how small it is to get everyone so excited!
I couldn't agree more! Small...but big on flavor, hahaha.
I can't wait for the discussions!
I am in. Will order it via Kindle today.
Come payday, I shall do the same. Don't wait for me guys - I can catch up.
We will wait. We all stand together. Plenty introduction to read. ☺☺
Almost on chapter 4.
What I love till now, and that is consistent with the Buddha's teaching as I always knew it, is the emphasis in the here and now.
No reference to other lifetimes from his mouth, till now...??
The reading takes double time because I scribble notes into my beloved Fausböll oldie, and compare with yet another version that I downloaded...
I am an exacting fussy reader...
Had a note from the book website that the "delivery service have taken charge of the package" so I can probably expect it tomorrow.
Here is a thoughtful review of the book, BTW, by one of the secular Buddhist folk. Still waiting on my copy:
http://secularbuddhism.org/2017/01/09/the-buddha-before-buddhism-review-of-fronsdal/
Yes, that's what I found interesting. He said not to concern oneself with "becoming", and any afterlife or rebirth questions.
Just got my book in the mail today.
@DhammaDragon I too love taking notes though I usually just annotate extensively and sticky note.
I am waiting until we are all ready discussing before reading. I've only read the intro and chapter 1. I would like to go piece by piece until I've sufficiently bat the information around. Reminds me of reading groups I haven't been a part of since junior high!
Guys, I don't get paid until the 10th of the month.
That means I won't get the book until at least a week after that.
So start without me.
I can and will catch up.
If anything, discussion will broaden and expand my own understanding and absorption of the work.....
OP, are you keeping track of who's ready to go? Let us know when to begin.
Let's call a last roll to see who is ready to begin and who would like to participate but does not have the book.
Shall we wait for those who don't have the book but would like to join?
I'll join but won't have the book
This book is the16 poems with a small commentary by the author/translator before each one. We could still post a version of each Chapter poem on the thread in discussion. Others would still be able to participate in chewing the poem/teaching...just not his specific commentary on it, ...Is that where we are going with this? I'm bumping the book up against the version provided in the OP on Access to Insight...for those who don't have or can't get the book. Yes...Semantics and exact translations will always be something to go back and forth over...but....real talk-you don't HAVE to get the book to discuss the concept/teaching/lesson and what you take away.
On each Chapter thread...let's just start out posting the AtI version and more people could be included, without having to spend the money on the book. Comparisons of different versions could still apply as discussions and so on...
On this link...scroll down to Chapter 4...and there is each of the 16.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/
Ready to go here. Doesn't matter to me if we wait or not. I have been hesitant to read too much ahead just because it seems like perhaps there would be value in understanding individual chapters and then putting them all together, and having a perspective of the whole book might change my understanding of the individual chapters (if that makes any sense, lol)
My book is still in the mail... I spoke to the vendors today and their delivery service could take up to the end of next week because it's coming from the uk. Sigh.
Got my book. Been reading ahead in class.
I have the book. I stopped reading a little after Chapter 2.
I don't know if there's that much to say about each chapter, honestly. I'm thinking a more open discussion format might work best. We tried a book club once before, and it broke down, because there wasn't that much to say, in terms of analysis and step-by-step discussion. What do you think, OP?
I don't know what an alternative organizing principle might be. Maybe people could state which chapters stood out for them, and were most significant for them, and why, and the flow of the discussion could follow that. IDK. It's great that there's so much interest in the book, though!
Or maybe we could have some general study questions, like, "What surprised you about this book?" "How are the principles presented in the poems different from your view of Buddhism?" That sort of thing, and discussion could be based on those questions...?
Just brainstorming.
For me, even though some chapters might generate a lot more discussion than others, it would be nice to keep them separate somehow. Even if we do like 4 sections that each contain 4 chapters? 16 discussions plus this one might be a lot to keep track of. I would have a hard time following a single discussion where everyone might be talking about one thing, but I want to ask about another chapter, and so on. It would mean a lot of jumping around between 16 distinct chapters in one discussion and might be hard to navigate? Or maybe we could break it down into the major headings that are covered, from @DhammaDragon's post earlier in this discussion:
Fronsdal finds four main thems in the book:
1) Letting go of views,
2) Avoiding sensual craving,
3) The qualities of a sage, and
4) The training to become a sage.
I am ready too
Maybe a paragraph introduction of where people come from in interest in the book? What made them interested and a little about themselves what brought them.
The only problem I see, even if we have the impression that some chapters do not have much food for discussion, is that to be able to discuss themes and broad general comments, we would all have had to finish the book.
Maybe we could follow the format that @karasti outlined above, as pinpointed in the book, encompassing themes and chapters:
1) Letting go of views (Chapters 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 11, 12 and 13)
2) Sensual Craving (Chapters 1, 2, 7 and 9)
3) Description of the Sage (Chapters 4, 6, 9, 10, 13 and 15)
4) Training (Chapters 14, 15 and 16)
We could create threads for each theme, and add to them as we read each chapter...
I like the broad, general topics approach. Maybe exploring a topic for a week, like Letting Go of Views to start?
The book has arrived....
I second @karasti's idea of breaking down the threads by concepts rather than chapters.
Oh great. And here's me thinking this was going to be a simple chronology.... ~Rolleyes~
Won't that turn into a bit of a mess as different readers progress through different chapters and jump from topic to topic? At least with chapter-by-chapter threads you can read chronologically through the book and what people thought about it...
Exactly. That's why I opened a thread for chapter 1, to be followed by threads on subsequent and following chapters, PLUS a thread for General discussion and different PoV's....
Either way is fine with me, I don't care. I just think things are going to run together amongst the 4 themes and that is going to make it hard to stick to one idea per chapter. Because stuff from the other chapters, as we keep reading, is going to come into play.
Sorry to show up sporadically, but we are leaving off on vacations tomorrow and I am going crazy.
Plus all the reading I am trying to put in...
Got paid. First thing I did was order the book.....
Great, Fede!!
Time for some new chapters yet?
Now the book has been despatched.... * Taps foot * .....
If we all stomp, will it come faster?