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If you became enlightened today...

13»

Comments

  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:
    @Carlita I think if you forcefully put out your ideas and opinions but reject perceived criticism or disagreement it is not advancing your buddhist path at all. You can come across as quite upset/aggressive when you dislike a reply. This is not the way forward. We are all adults here and should be allowed to discuss and debate, agree or disagree, all respectfully. Launching off against perceived disagreement comes across as quite bossy or authoritarian. I don't think citing medical reasons can be an excuse for this.
    Much metta
    Hozan ??

    With abundance metta, sincere and genuine, flowing from every atom of my being, because I say so...

    Why do you get involved? You did this in a previous thread where you were no part of the discussion but involved yourself in a personal dispute, making comments on my character, advising me on my path, misconstruing what I've said. I mean, I can understand an instinct to play peacemaker, but you only add to the dispute, and your overuse of the word 'metta' does nothing to cloak a very clear lack of actual metta.

    Anybody is free to be part of a discussion and contribute. You didn't like me being part of that discussion because I called you out on the inappropriate things you were posting. If you can't handle it that is your problem. I do wish genuine metta so don't dare second guess my integrity. It is totally appropriate to disagree or debate and still wish someone well and mean it. Maybe that is something you are not used to. Either way do not dare to second guess my integrity.

    KundoBuddhadragonCarlita
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited November 2017
    • deleted. You're not worth it.

    Chill out

    BuddhadragonCarlita
  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:
    @Carlita I think if you forcefully put out your ideas and opinions but reject perceived criticism or disagreement it is not advancing your buddhist path at all. You can come across as quite upset/aggressive when you dislike a reply. This is not the way forward. We are all adults here and should be allowed to discuss and debate, agree or disagree, all respectfully. Launching off against perceived disagreement comes across as quite bossy or authoritarian. I don't think citing medical reasons can be an excuse for this.
    Much metta
    Hozan ??

    With abundance metta, sincere and genuine, flowing from every atom of my being, because I say so...

    Why do you get involved? You did this in a previous thread where you were no part of the discussion but involved yourself in a personal dispute, making comments on my character, advising me on my path, misconstruing what I've said. I mean, I can understand an instinct to play peacemaker, but you only add to the dispute, and your overuse of the word 'metta' does nothing to cloak a very clear lack of actual metta.

    Anybody is free to be part of a discussion and contribute. You didn't like me being part of that discussion because I called you out on the inappropriate things you were posting. If you can't handle it that is your problem. I do wish genuine metta so don't dare second guess my integrity. It is totally appropriate to disagree or debate and still wish someone well and mean it. Maybe that is something you are not used to. Either way do not dare to second guess my integrity.

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @mindatrisk if I misconstrued what you said in a previous thread why did you then apologize for what you had posted. I get the feeling you would much rather a thread where you could air your views and never have anybody disagree or question what you say. How else are we going to learn from one another?

    KundoBuddhadragon
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:
    @Carlita I think if you forcefully put out your ideas and opinions but reject perceived criticism or disagreement it is not advancing your buddhist path at all. You can come across as quite upset/aggressive when you dislike a reply. This is not the way forward. We are all adults here and should be allowed to discuss and debate, agree or disagree, all respectfully. Launching off against perceived disagreement comes across as quite bossy or authoritarian. I don't think citing medical reasons can be an excuse for this.
    Much metta
    Hozan ??

    With abundance metta, sincere and genuine, flowing from every atom of my being, because I say so...

    Why do you get involved? You did this in a previous thread where you were no part of the discussion but involved yourself in a personal dispute, making comments on my character, advising me on my path, misconstruing what I've said. I mean, I can understand an instinct to play peacemaker, but you only add to the dispute, and your overuse of the word 'metta' does nothing to cloak a very clear lack of actual metta.

    Anybody is free to be part of a discussion and contribute. You didn't like me being part of that discussion because I called you out on the inappropriate things you were posting. If you can't handle it that is your problem. I do wish genuine metta so don't dare second guess my integrity. It is totally appropriate to disagree or debate and still wish someone well and mean it. Maybe that is something you are not used to. Either way do not dare to second guess my integrity.

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Look in the mirror pal

    Buddhadragon
  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran

    @dhammachick said:

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Look in the mirror pal

    Where am I using the word metta?

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @mindatrisk said:

    @dhammachick said:

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Look in the mirror pal

    Where am I using the word metta?

    because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Yours aren't either.

    Buddhadragon
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:
    @Carlita I think if you forcefully put out your ideas and opinions but reject perceived criticism or disagreement it is not advancing your buddhist path at all. You can come across as quite upset/aggressive when you dislike a reply. This is not the way forward. We are all adults here and should be allowed to discuss and debate, agree or disagree, all respectfully. Launching off against perceived disagreement comes across as quite bossy or authoritarian. I don't think citing medical reasons can be an excuse for this.
    Much metta
    Hozan ??

    With abundance metta, sincere and genuine, flowing from every atom of my being, because I say so...

    Why do you get involved? You did this in a previous thread where you were no part of the discussion but involved yourself in a personal dispute, making comments on my character, advising me on my path, misconstruing what I've said. I mean, I can understand an instinct to play peacemaker, but you only add to the dispute, and your overuse of the word 'metta' does nothing to cloak a very clear lack of actual metta.

    Anybody is free to be part of a discussion and contribute. You didn't like me being part of that discussion because I called you out on the inappropriate things you were posting. If you can't handle it that is your problem. I do wish genuine metta so don't dare second guess my integrity. It is totally appropriate to disagree or debate and still wish someone well and mean it. Maybe that is something you are not used to. Either way do not dare to second guess my integrity.

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Ok you are free to second guess my integrity. That is your right. So I respectfully ask that you and I do not interact anymore on this thread or any other. Thank you.

    Buddhadragon
  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran

    @Hozan said:
    @mindatrisk if I misconstrued what you said in a previous thread why did you then apologize for what you had posted. I get the feeling you would much rather a thread where you could air your views and never have anybody disagree or question what you say. How else are we going to learn from one another?

    I apologised 1. Because, even if my words are misconstrued, if they cause upset then I am sorry for that, and 2. To nip the situation in the bud, so it doesn't get out of hand.

    Personally, I love disagreement. What I don't agree with is discussing peoples characters. And I don't agree with people telling others what they should be practicing. The fact is that none of us know each other at all here, and it is very, very easy to misunderstood words on a screen, so the maximum of grace and benefit of the doubt should always be given before we begin to judge and condemn the 'behaviour' of others.

    Carlita says that she has a medical problem which causes problems. You say 'that's no excuse'. Where is the empathy in that? We all struggle with metta, we all know how difficult it is to maintain kindness, and you have no idea how much harder it might be for her. So why not some grace? Why not some gentle understanding?

    We are all very guilty here of misunderstanding what others say. I see others do it, and I see myself do it. It's something we all obviously need to work on, and I think much more benefit of the doubt needs to be given before any comment on someones apparent behaviour is made, simply because we all know how easy it is to misunderstand. I think that is fair.

    Carlita
  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran

    @dhammachick said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @dhammachick said:

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Look in the mirror pal

    Where am I using the word metta?

    because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Yours aren't either.

    But there's no pretence that they do. I'm not challenging Hozan feeling frustrated or angry or whatever. We're humans and sometimes that happens. What I'm challenging is saying 'metta' but behaving so obviously without.

  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:
    @Carlita I think if you forcefully put out your ideas and opinions but reject perceived criticism or disagreement it is not advancing your buddhist path at all. You can come across as quite upset/aggressive when you dislike a reply. This is not the way forward. We are all adults here and should be allowed to discuss and debate, agree or disagree, all respectfully. Launching off against perceived disagreement comes across as quite bossy or authoritarian. I don't think citing medical reasons can be an excuse for this.
    Much metta
    Hozan ??

    With abundance metta, sincere and genuine, flowing from every atom of my being, because I say so...

    Why do you get involved? You did this in a previous thread where you were no part of the discussion but involved yourself in a personal dispute, making comments on my character, advising me on my path, misconstruing what I've said. I mean, I can understand an instinct to play peacemaker, but you only add to the dispute, and your overuse of the word 'metta' does nothing to cloak a very clear lack of actual metta.

    Anybody is free to be part of a discussion and contribute. You didn't like me being part of that discussion because I called you out on the inappropriate things you were posting. If you can't handle it that is your problem. I do wish genuine metta so don't dare second guess my integrity. It is totally appropriate to disagree or debate and still wish someone well and mean it. Maybe that is something you are not used to. Either way do not dare to second guess my integrity.

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Ok you are free to second guess my integrity. That is your right. So I respectfully ask that you and I do not interact anymore on this thread or any other. Thank you.

    You are more than welcome to comment as you wish on anything I say. This is the ugly business of being human and I'm not going to shy away from these difficulties. This is where we can grow. But, if this is your wish then I will respect it, and, as much as I will remember this wish, I'll try not to engage with you in other threads.

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @mindatrisk said:

    @dhammachick said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @dhammachick said:

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Look in the mirror pal

    Where am I using the word metta?

    because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Yours aren't either.

    But there's no pretence that they do. I'm not challenging Hozan feeling frustrated or angry or whatever. We're humans and sometimes that happens. What I'm challenging is saying 'metta' but behaving so obviously without.

    And there's no pretence in @Hozan 's either. You're the only one who has an issue. You even led with that, saying he attacked your character previously. Which again is YOUR perception.

    Even Carlita, who is directly affected by the posts you find offensive has made peace with what was said.

    So, I'm challenging your attack on Hozan as being unnecessary and petty.

    Buddhadragon
  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran

    @dhammachick said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @dhammachick said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @dhammachick said:

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Look in the mirror pal

    Where am I using the word metta?

    because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Yours aren't either.

    But there's no pretence that they do. I'm not challenging Hozan feeling frustrated or angry or whatever. We're humans and sometimes that happens. What I'm challenging is saying 'metta' but behaving so obviously without.

    And there's no pretence in @Hozan 's either. You're the only one who has an issue. You even led with that, saying he attacked your character previously. Which again is YOUR perception.

    Even Carlita, who is directly affected by the posts you find offensive has made peace with what was said.

    So, I'm challenging your attack on Hozan as being unnecessary and petty.

    So you are doing to me what you disagree with me doing to Hozan? Cos I don't mind. Hozan has challenged me. I've challenged Hozan. You are challenging me. Now I'm challenging you. This is humans being humans. We are disagreeing with each other, calling each other out, contradicting ourselves, misconstruing others words and intentions. And so on. It's not easy. It's messy. It can appear ugly, and it can make us look bad. So be it. The only concern is between ourselves and our own mind. You can think what you want of me. You can say what you want to me. For better or the worse, the only thing that will matter to me is my own mind. And likewise for you. For only you know what you truly feel, your true intentions, your true thoughts etc.

    Carlita
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:
    @Carlita I think if you forcefully put out your ideas and opinions but reject perceived criticism or disagreement it is not advancing your buddhist path at all. You can come across as quite upset/aggressive when you dislike a reply. This is not the way forward. We are all adults here and should be allowed to discuss and debate, agree or disagree, all respectfully. Launching off against perceived disagreement comes across as quite bossy or authoritarian. I don't think citing medical reasons can be an excuse for this.
    Much metta
    Hozan ??

    With abundance metta, sincere and genuine, flowing from every atom of my being, because I say so...

    Why do you get involved? You did this in a previous thread where you were no part of the discussion but involved yourself in a personal dispute, making comments on my character, advising me on my path, misconstruing what I've said. I mean, I can understand an instinct to play peacemaker, but you only add to the dispute, and your overuse of the word 'metta' does nothing to cloak a very clear lack of actual metta.

    Anybody is free to be part of a discussion and contribute. You didn't like me being part of that discussion because I called you out on the inappropriate things you were posting. If you can't handle it that is your problem. I do wish genuine metta so don't dare second guess my integrity. It is totally appropriate to disagree or debate and still wish someone well and mean it. Maybe that is something you are not used to. Either way do not dare to second guess my integrity.

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Ok you are free to second guess my integrity. That is your right. So I respectfully ask that you and I do not interact anymore on this thread or any other. Thank you.

    You are more than welcome to comment as you wish on anything I say. This is the ugly business of being human and I'm not going to shy away from these difficulties. This is where we can grow. But, if this is your wish then I will respect it, and, as much as I will remember this wish, I'll try not to engage with you in other threads.

    Thank you @mindatrisk . I will not be commenting further on anything you post. I. am also more than happy for you to have disagreed with any points that I may have made. To question my integrity behind wishing metta is an entirely different matter. I am always genuine when I wish it. I don't always wish it .
    Please as grown adults now let us stop right here and now with the back and forth. I would wish you well or sign off from interacting with you in a positive manner but you obviously wouldn't believe that I meant it. So goodbye will have to suffice. Do not think for a moment that I harbour any ill will of any kind for you. Its not my way and I am certain it is not your way either. ?

    Buddhadragon
  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:
    @Carlita I think if you forcefully put out your ideas and opinions but reject perceived criticism or disagreement it is not advancing your buddhist path at all. You can come across as quite upset/aggressive when you dislike a reply. This is not the way forward. We are all adults here and should be allowed to discuss and debate, agree or disagree, all respectfully. Launching off against perceived disagreement comes across as quite bossy or authoritarian. I don't think citing medical reasons can be an excuse for this.
    Much metta
    Hozan ??

    With abundance metta, sincere and genuine, flowing from every atom of my being, because I say so...

    Why do you get involved? You did this in a previous thread where you were no part of the discussion but involved yourself in a personal dispute, making comments on my character, advising me on my path, misconstruing what I've said. I mean, I can understand an instinct to play peacemaker, but you only add to the dispute, and your overuse of the word 'metta' does nothing to cloak a very clear lack of actual metta.

    Anybody is free to be part of a discussion and contribute. You didn't like me being part of that discussion because I called you out on the inappropriate things you were posting. If you can't handle it that is your problem. I do wish genuine metta so don't dare second guess my integrity. It is totally appropriate to disagree or debate and still wish someone well and mean it. Maybe that is something you are not used to. Either way do not dare to second guess my integrity.

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Ok you are free to second guess my integrity. That is your right. So I respectfully ask that you and I do not interact anymore on this thread or any other. Thank you.

    You are more than welcome to comment as you wish on anything I say. This is the ugly business of being human and I'm not going to shy away from these difficulties. This is where we can grow. But, if this is your wish then I will respect it, and, as much as I will remember this wish, I'll try not to engage with you in other threads.

    Thank you @mindatrisk . I will not be commenting further on anything you post. I. am also more than happy for you to have disagreed with any points that I may have made. To question my integrity behind wishing metta is an entirely different matter. I am always genuine when I wish it. I don't always wish it .
    Please as grown adults now let us stop right here and now with the back and forth. I would wish you well or sign off from interacting with you in a positive manner but you obviously wouldn't believe that I meant it. So goodbye will have to suffice. Do not think for a moment that I harbour any ill will of any kind for you. Its not my way and I am certain it is not your way either. ?

    I believe you! And these are kind, graceful and wise words. Bless you.

    Hozan
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    **"For only you know what you truly feel, your true intentions, your true thoughts etc ". ** I agree precisely @mindatrisk with this line you have just typed. How therefore can you question the integrity of my Metta when I am the only one who knows of its integrity.

    KundoBuddhadragonCarlita
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    Anyway that's it for me @mindatrisk . Peace.

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited November 2017

    @mindatrisk said:

    @dhammachick said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @dhammachick said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @dhammachick said:

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Look in the mirror pal

    Where am I using the word metta?

    because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Yours aren't either.

    But there's no pretence that they do. I'm not challenging Hozan feeling frustrated or angry or whatever. We're humans and sometimes that happens. What I'm challenging is saying 'metta' but behaving so obviously without.

    And there's no pretence in @Hozan 's either. You're the only one who has an issue. You even led with that, saying he attacked your character previously. Which again is YOUR perception.

    Even Carlita, who is directly affected by the posts you find offensive has made peace with what was said.

    So, I'm challenging your attack on Hozan as being unnecessary and petty.

    So you are doing to me what you disagree with me doing to Hozan? Cos I don't mind. Hozan has challenged me. I've challenged Hozan. You are challenging me. Now I'm challenging you. This is humans being humans. We are disagreeing with each other, calling each other out, contradicting ourselves, misconstruing others words and intentions. And so on. It's not easy. It's messy. It can appear ugly, and it can make us look bad. So be it. The only concern is between ourselves and our own mind. You can think what you want of me. You can say what you want to me. For better or the worse, the only thing that will matter to me is my own mind. And likewise for you. For only you know what you truly feel, your true intentions, your true thoughts etc.

    ???

    And with that, you should have no more to say to me. And I don't expect you to.
    _ /\ _

    HozanBuddhadragon
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:

    @mindatrisk said:

    @Hozan said:
    @Carlita I think if you forcefully put out your ideas and opinions but reject perceived criticism or disagreement it is not advancing your buddhist path at all. You can come across as quite upset/aggressive when you dislike a reply. This is not the way forward. We are all adults here and should be allowed to discuss and debate, agree or disagree, all respectfully. Launching off against perceived disagreement comes across as quite bossy or authoritarian. I don't think citing medical reasons can be an excuse for this.
    Much metta
    Hozan ??

    With abundance metta, sincere and genuine, flowing from every atom of my being, because I say so...

    Why do you get involved? You did this in a previous thread where you were no part of the discussion but involved yourself in a personal dispute, making comments on my character, advising me on my path, misconstruing what I've said. I mean, I can understand an instinct to play peacemaker, but you only add to the dispute, and your overuse of the word 'metta' does nothing to cloak a very clear lack of actual metta.

    Anybody is free to be part of a discussion and contribute. You didn't like me being part of that discussion because I called you out on the inappropriate things you were posting. If you can't handle it that is your problem. I do wish genuine metta so don't dare second guess my integrity. It is totally appropriate to disagree or debate and still wish someone well and mean it. Maybe that is something you are not used to. Either way do not dare to second guess my integrity.

    Well, I am second guessing it, and I am challenging it, because I don't think your words or how you conduct yourself reflect your use of that word.

    Ok you are free to second guess my integrity. That is your right. So I respectfully ask that you and I do not interact anymore on this thread or any other. Thank you.

    You are more than welcome to comment as you wish on anything I say. This is the ugly business of being human and I'm not going to shy away from these difficulties. This is where we can grow. But, if this is your wish then I will respect it, and, as much as I will remember this wish, I'll try not to engage with you in other threads.

    Thank you @mindatrisk . I will not be commenting further on anything you post. I. am also more than happy for you to have disagreed with any points that I may have made. To question my integrity behind wishing metta is an entirely different matter. I am always genuine when I wish it. I don't always wish it .
    Please as grown adults now let us stop right here and now with the back and forth. I would wish you well or sign off from interacting with you in a positive manner but you obviously wouldn't believe that I meant it. So goodbye will have to suffice. Do not think for a moment that I harbour any ill will of any kind for you. Its not my way and I am certain it is not your way either. ?

    I believe you! And these are kind, graceful and wise words. Bless you.

    ??? best wishes @mindatrisk .

  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran

    @Hozan said:
    **"For only you know what you truly feel, your true intentions, your true thoughts etc ". ** I agree precisely @mindatrisk with this line you have just typed. How therefore can you question the integrity of my Metta when I am the only one who knows of its integrity.

    Of course I can question it! But, of course, I can also be wrong! The point remains... only you know, and only you need to know. If you know that your exchanges with Carlita were of metta then whether I question it or not is irrelevant. If it is the case that your words truly were reflecting your behaviour then I apologise for misinterpreting them. But that's just the way it goes. You've felt cause to challenge my behaviour in the past based upon your perceptions (which I would challenge as incorrect), and in this situation I've challenged your behaviour based upon my perceptions, which you have challenged as incorrect. I suppose we've both taken a risk and perhaps both been wrong. The likelihood is that, given how complex we are as humans, that it's all been a bit inbetween. That would be my guess, but again, I might be wrong!

    Buddhadragon
  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran

    Sorry, I was typing that as you'd already replied. Have a good day. :)

    Hozan
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2017

    This is the one think I am truly uncomfortable with, in being Moderator:
    Different time zones.

    "While you were out, the shit hit the fan...." Oy!

    Sadly, as so much has gone on, I have but two choices:
    One: Ban the entire group. Don't think I'm not tempted. Seriously.
    Two: close the thread, remind EVERYONE where we are, mention social niceties and manners and put everyone on their guard regarding future interaction.

    Fucking hell, guys! :angry:

    Carlita
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @lobster said:

    If you became enlightened today...

    Abandon raft! Children and lobsters first!

    Oh and @lobster? You owned the internet.

This discussion has been closed.