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If you became enlightened today...
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Personally, speaking for myself...
My intention isn't necessarily to be enlightened.
My intention is to Understand Suffering (got it) and transcend it (not quite got it).
My goal is to be detached, but not to get rid of all attachment.
My direction is the Dhamma.
My destination? I am not at liberty to hypothesise. I'll tell you when I get there...
Metta and Ghasso.
It is peculiar.
So far the enlightened seem able to enter other dimensions, enter bliss or other realms at will, transcend time and space, automatically become a teacher ...
Ay caramba ...
Here are answers done earlier ...
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/6187/what-is-enlightenment-and-nirvana
And something else for fun ...
http://sufiway.org/teaching/seven-contemplations-on-the-open-path/14-teachings/41-the-art-of-awakening
Love the 'for fun' bit....
I dont see the difference in what I said. Is there??
A diamond has many facets. I'm merely looking at the same diamond via a different facet.
Simply because I respond doesn't mean I contradict.
Is there a difference between what I said and what you said?
I think this is what most people mean by enlightenment.
Only if you think so.
As I said; facets of the same diamond....
Medically, I do not do well with sarcasm or what I percieve as sarcasm.
Is there a difference?
I think we should let matters rest here, @Carlita.
Your perception, medical or otherwise, is something you have to deal with. I mean only what I wrote.
What you wish to infer from it, rests with you.
Much metta to you.
You started up something from a mere question. Why do you do that?
No, there is no difference. The same idea is expressed in different forms; that's all.
Thank you. I know different schools and sects have different views on goals and intentions of Buddhism. When I practiced Nichiren, the intention wasnt enlightement-full understanding of Dharma-but a mystic connection with the Gohonzon of the physical scroll of The Lotus Sutra. Outside of that, I dont know much about other sects formally.
Well the Buddha declared he had a path to get to nibbana and we’re all just following him, along the way applying ehi passiko and seeing that each of our little steps yield results.
It is peculiar, I agree, but we live in hope of being free from suffering. Even if it is only freedom from the “second arrow”.
I quite liked this link @lobster posted earlier...
http://sufiway.org/teaching/seven-contemplations-on-the-open-path/14-teachings/41-the-art-of-awakening
Yes that is quite an insightful article, I like it too. And although it’s posted on a Sufi website I think it casts a light on the processes of Buddhism as well. This in particular:
Although I have to say that it is possible to be transformed, even if there is no ‘i’. The people in Osho’s communes were definitely transformed, I think many Buddhist monks are transformed by the practice. The thing that transforms them is often love, I believe. I see it in my mother, in my father, sometimes in others.
Yes; notwithstanding, it's food for thought. Or at least, I found....
My personal thinking: Well, I was longing for enlightenment and may be I am still longing for it - honestly I don't know the current situation. What is my purpose of life - I don't know and I also don't want to know. Were the Zen teachers right - I don't know - whether Dogen was right - I don't know - but I believe him (why I believe him - I don't know) and I believe in his teachings in Genjokoan and Fukanzazengi - may be I am stupid, but if this is the case, then be it, I do not want to change it. But theoretically it makes some sense to me what Dogen taught based on the commentaries, which I read from other teachers on his Genjokoan and Fukanzazengi. Moreover, last few days I have been reading Chan teachers' teachings like Niu Tou and Zen teachers like Dongshan. So Chan and Zen makes sense to me - why I exactly don't know. What I try to do now is - just try to be with what is. Do I now want enlightenment - honestly since I do not know what exactly is enlightenment and also Dogen says that it is not the case that once you get enlightened, it is all done, rather practice is endless and after you get enlightened, just forget about it and be with the next moment, which would give another opportunity for getting enlightened - so delusions are endless, practice is endless, there is no point where either something like completely delusion ends or something like complete enlightenment is reached. As Hsin Hsin Ming says - words cannot describe it. Also Zen teachings say - wrong is not wrong and right is not right - whatever we say, it is both right and wrong. Obviously it does not make sense to our rational thinking mind. Hsin Hsin Ming teaches:
Clinging, they go too far,
even an attachment to enlightenment is to go astray.
Just let things be in their own way as they are,
and there is neither coming nor going.
All is void, clear, and self-illuminating,
with no need to exert the mind.
Here thinking, feeling, knowledge, and imagination
are of no value.
Don’t waste time in arguments and discussion,
attempting to grasp the ungraspable.
One thing and everything
move among and intermingle without distinction.
To live in this Realization
is to not worry about perfection or non-perfection.
To put your trust in the Way is to live without separation,
and in this nonduality you are one with the Way.
Words! Words!
The Way is beyond language,
Words never could, can not now, and never will describe the Way.
May be whatever I have written in this post is completely junk - if this is the case, then please feel free to ignore my this post.
Metta to you and all sentient beings. May all sentient beings be peaceful, happy, safe, protected, healthy, strong, have ease of well-being and accept all the conditions of the world.
I don't think the Buddha's point is strictly that there is no 'self', but that what we regard as our 'self' does not exist. It is quite clear that within this realm I am having the experience of a distinct and independent body and mind from others. And that distinct and independent body and mind can attain an experience of enlightenment whilst others do not have that experience. So, in some shape or form there is the experience being had of separate selves. I think - and I might be wrong - but what the Buddha was challenging was what that self constitutes, i.e. our self is not what we think it is... quite literally! I think the Buddha was challenging our ideas about ourselves, not the existence of an independent vehicle of consciousness that of itself can experience enlightenment.
Excuse me, @Carlita, but it is not the first time that you get upset at some comment and allege medical reasons for not to being able to deal with digression or differences of opinion.
The fact that someone adds a comment to something you say, downright chooses to disagree with what you say, or you have a particular reading on the comment, is no reason to wane defensive.
People will not always agree with us, and it is not up to the world to water down their speech for us.
It is us who must learn to become more thick-skinned and accept that people are entitled to their own opinion, independently of whether it agrees with us, or we like it or not.
Time to don the leather shoes, rather than expecting for the world to get carpeted in leather.
This has already been resolved. Please dont bring up dead horses. Metta first.
^^^This is a forum for discussion, and we are all entitled to express our opinion, @Carlita.
Much metta to you
You have to reprase your post to reflect some metta. Since the issue has been resolvesd, I assume there is another point youd like to address?
I have already addressed it, @Carlita.
We can't assume an issue gets solved by silencing forum members through badly-veiled passive aggressive comments.
It was resolved between federicka and I. I see things from an outside view because I havent been here long enough to get used to people's (people's) personalities, sarcasm, and defensive mechanisms. This is why a lot of us meditate and find connections in why and how we act how we do. I would love to read your reply but I am learning how to separate myself from criticisms that make me upset. When our minds are in defensive mode, looking to provoke heated discussions, and not constructive by that very nature people in general will respond negatively. What The Dharma is teaching me is how to put this negativity in perspective. If we (people) cant talk it out, how is that following The Dharma? Breathing meditation is fine but I was listening to Dharma talk this morning and the nun said that if you arent thinking and getting to know your trigger side, are you (people) really advancing mentally. It lead me to do more analytical meditations too.
@Carlita I think if you forcefully put out your ideas and opinions but reject perceived criticism or disagreement it is not advancing your buddhist path at all. You can come across as quite upset/aggressive when you dislike a reply. This is not the way forward. We are all adults here and should be allowed to discuss and debate, agree or disagree, all respectfully. Launching off against perceived disagreement comes across as quite bossy or authoritarian. I don't think citing medical reasons can be an excuse for this.
Much metta
Hozan ??
Digression is not negative, and my comment was not a critic.
And if anything, it is through digression and criticism that we grow and evolve.
Getting upset is our personal reaction to a reality that does not handle us with gloves.
And reality could not care less for our reactions.
I have said enough.
I have not ...
I will be in the naughty corner weeping if anyone needs me ...
Do not weep @lobster . You are much loved. Fact.
May you be well. May you be happy.
Weeping is often joyful ...
Many thanks
Its a lesrning curve that is very hard to defend myself on a forum when the Buddhist path isnt supposed to be bright eyed and cheery. Its supposed to make you think, find what your weak points are, how to handle what others say, how to center oneself, and so forth. If The Dharma doesnt challenge me, I have no reason to believe it.
The discussion has been reconciled. Im glad I am where I am so far. It takes a lot even to come on this site but no other site has a layout and good talk about The Dharma I have found nor have introspective people who probe each others thinking.
People with OCD want confirmation regarding all matters, mundane as well as spiritual. It's not like they're doing it on purpose. This is how they process information and respond.
@techie who said anything about OCD ?
Im not upset. Bout to eat. Just finished talking to a friend. Now scratching my head over your posts. You didnt need to write a whole reply an a image to make a point. Tell me your points directly, and I will get it. I read part of it but if you dont want to talk it out, I dont know the purpose of your post. Why cant I say Im affected by a post without being perceived I have some other agenda. Thats just odd.
The way forward is what makes you go from your confort zone. It challenges you to think and how to react to things. It makes you learn from mistakes and talk out what needs to be talked out. If we are not challenged by our faith, why believe it.
That is my opinion and statement.
@carlita the purpose of @DhammaDragon post was very clear.
No need to bold.
Her last post or her long one?
I read her last post. The long one I didnt read fully. I havent been here that long but I do notice the shift of emotions on these threads that Im not a part of. Ive seen some folks been commented on it but it was brushed aside and life went on.
The only thing I asked was "do you see any differences" and it turned into this. Its really silly and doesnt solve anything at all.
Your reply doesn't seem to make sense to me as a response to what I said. No matter. Much Metta Carlita. Be happy. Be well. I am bowing out of this thread. Take care.
"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,"— in those who harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease.
"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me," — in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred will cease. "
Goodbye and best wishes @carlita
I didnt quote it from you. You did talk about my not advancing. I dont always agree and thats normal. We dont always need to agree with each other I just hope the discussion is more productive than calling out my faults.
Gosh. Wow. Just wow. Im at a lost for words.
Well be quiet then.
I finally read this in full
I have seizures in the temporal and frontal lobe. Temporal lobe (right) involves memory and some emotions. The frontal lobe deals with excutive skills, emotions such as impulses, crying, or screaming. Some say people with OCD (which is not a chosen fault) is controled by this area. Most tramatic brain injuries to the frontal lobe, the symptoms all I have. Your quote, to make it less offensive, would be people who easily get offensive probably have some challenges they personally need to attend to that is only put on the person who experiences it not anyone else. It means some blame ourselves others blame other people. Spirituality should not only let us say "much metta" but also see the metta in others words. We are not the victim here. We can be the solution if we dont pick at each others faults. Not everyone is perfect. The best we can do is follow The Dharma and keep learning from ourselves and others.
Anyway. If you all want to have constructive talks, Im all for it. I cant change what you guys think of me on an internet forum. Especially when you guys dont know me like that. Internet is funky with personalities.
@Carlita the metta i wish you is sincere and genuine. Every best wish. Hozan. ??
Thank you. Much metta. (phrase is begining to wear on me
)
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" Nothing whatsoever should be clung to...
If I became enlightened today then I would choose option 1.
I also wouldn't have very unBuddhist thoughts about comments on this thread. But I'll take responsibility for practising Incorrect Speech (and likely copping punishment) rather than blaming external influences.......
With abundance metta, sincere and genuine, flowing from every atom of my being, because I say so...
Why do you get involved? You did this in a previous thread where you were no part of the discussion but involved yourself in a personal dispute, making comments on my character, advising me on my path, misconstruing what I've said. I mean, I can understand an instinct to play peacemaker, but you only add to the dispute, and your overuse of the word 'metta' does nothing to cloak a very clear lack of actual metta.