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Where does a spiritual journey end

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Comments

  • KeromeKerome Certainty is the enemy of wonder The Continent Veteran

    Thank you @person, that is akin to what I am already doing, encouraging her to take a critical look at her beliefs by setting the right example.

    ShoshinBunks
  • KeromeKerome Certainty is the enemy of wonder The Continent Veteran

    @federica said:
    To suggest or push one's ideals onto another is not the Way. The Buddha taught nothing unless asked to do so

    I thought about this some, and it strikes me that the Buddha’s example is relevant. He approached his ascetic friends to give his first teaching, before he was well-known as a teacher. It is not that unusual to wish to set a good example for one’s friends.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Moderator Note:

    Just as a complete aside - page one of this discussion has fallen into the seemingly irreversible chasm of 'Bad Gateway'.... :(

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Kerome said:

    @federica said:
    To suggest or push one's ideals onto another is not the Way. The Buddha taught nothing unless asked to do so

    I thought about this some, and it strikes me that the Buddha’s example is relevant. He approached his ascetic friends to give his first teaching, before he was well-known as a teacher. It is not that unusual to wish to set a good example for one’s friends.

    Well that's a good point, but remember 2 things:

    Firstly, The Buddha spoke to his ascetic friends who were on the same path as he was. They were seeking what he sought, so outlining his findings hit the same groove with them.

    Secondly, I have several friends whose ideas and opinions are different to mine. I might discuss my views with them, and we might broadly differ, but I never intend to deliberately change their minds or consider them 'deluded'.

    SuraShine
  • Tee Hee @Jeffrey 💗

    Something 'interesting' happens during the death process from what we know from some who have partially gone through it.

    Death is a good place to end. Life is a good place to begin. In fact it is the only place I know of where the spiritual journey can occur ...

    BunksJeffrey
  • opiumpoetryopiumpoetry Delaware, Ohio, USA Explorer

    I guess THIS spirit journey ends when your body dies, and then the next one begins. Mind you, I don't consider it a spirit journey unless you are helping others.

    Bunks
  • KeromeKerome Certainty is the enemy of wonder The Continent Veteran

    @federica said:
    Secondly, I have several friends whose ideas and opinions are different to mine. I might discuss my views with them, and we might broadly differ, but I never intend to deliberately change their minds or consider them 'deluded'.

    Fair enough, but what if one of them picked up a science fiction book and held that as their belief? Would you just smile and say ‘fine’, without even thinking that their thought process in doing this was weird, or they might much more gainfully walk a path with more truth in it?

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2020

    @Kerome said:

    @federica said:
    Secondly, I have several friends whose ideas and opinions are different to mine. I might discuss my views with them, and we might broadly differ, but I never intend to deliberately change their minds or consider them 'deluded'.

    Fair enough, but what if one of them picked up a science fiction book and held that as their belief? Would you just smile and say ‘fine’, without even thinking that their thought process in doing this was weird, or they might much more gainfully walk a path with more truth in it?

    Haven't Christian Scientists done that?

    I might consider them madder than a box of frogs, but if it makes them kind people with good intentions, and doesn't harm them, then why am I going to sit there trying to change their minds when what they believe makes their world a happier place, and them, a better person?

    Truth is subjective, don't you think?
    Who am I to try to influence them that my truth is better than their truth?
    Would I rather be happy, or would I rather be right?
    Hm, that's a tough one....

    SuraShine
  • KeromeKerome Certainty is the enemy of wonder The Continent Veteran

    @federica said:
    I might consider them madder than a box of frogs

    We can certainly agree on that!

    Truth is subjective, don’t you think?
    Who am I to try to influence them that my truth is better than their truth?

    Some truths are subjective, I’d say. People who try to argue the truth of the Law of Gravity generally find a hard fall awaits them, and I suspect the Four Noble Truths (however you state them) are also like that.

    I think it does come down to trying to exemplify a sensible truth, encouraging a critical examination of one’s beliefs, and making good teachings available for those who might be helped by them. Not all truths are sensible, and even though all paths lead up the mountain not all of them make it to the top before dissolving into other paths.

    Missionary zeal is something I’ve always disliked, but there’s a difference between that and trying to teach those who are open to it.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think the liminal space Veteran

    IMO its better to approach Truth or truth as a way of viewing the world rather than a set of facts or beliefs about the world. Taking in information with a balance of openness and skepticism. Requiring evidence or reason without completely dismissing things a priori outside of our worldview.

    Trying to adopt a stance of intellectual humility, thinking that you may be wrong in part or in whole (we all certainly have been in the past). That others usually have something they can teach us about the world outside of our perspective that can add to it.

    Kerome
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited April 2020

    Where does a spiritual journey end

    Often in disagreement it would seem ;)

    BunksSuraShine
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2020

    @Shoshin said:

    Where does a spiritual journey end

    Often in disagreement it would seem ;)

    Oh I wouldn't say it's ended; that seems a little harsh, @Shoshin. @Kerome and I are probably just buffing up the opposite sides of the same coin.

    I've taken the head and left him the tail, though.... :p:D

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    After all is said and done, it would seem you and @Kerome are still stalemates ;);)

    Kerome
  • KeromeKerome Certainty is the enemy of wonder The Continent Veteran

    Lol, probably in practice we aren’t so different...

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Kerome said:
    Lol, probably in practice we aren’t so different...

    I'm sure that's true. And how dull would it be if we all had the same opinions?
    As my grandad used to say, "If everyone all liked the same things I would have faced a lot of stiff competition over your Grandma!"

    Bunks
  • KeromeKerome Certainty is the enemy of wonder The Continent Veteran

    She gave me an account of what she actually does, and it was all about a kind of multidimensional healing and awakening of the self and others. Not surprising the website carries medical disclaimers. So some form of good intentions, which at least is something.

  • KeromeKerome Certainty is the enemy of wonder The Continent Veteran

    “There is no greater evil than desiring to change others - (to take from or give to others what they do not, of their own accord, want to give or take).”

    — Tao Te Ching, verse 46

    Hmm. Perhaps setting a good example is as much as I want to do.

    lobsterWalkerShoshinBunks
  • Great quote @Kerome and hard to implement for many of us ... keen on changing others rather than our many selves ... 🤗

  • KeromeKerome Certainty is the enemy of wonder The Continent Veteran

    You are right @lobster, in part it is difficult because changing someone else is the ultimate affirmation that we ourselves are right. It’s very tempting. But in my friend’s case I would love to see her gain more inner peace, she is quite fragile and I’m not at all sure this current direction is good for her. Still it is her choice.

    lobster
  • @opiumpoetry said:
    I guess THIS spirit journey ends when your body dies, and then the next one begins. Mind you, I don't consider it a spirit journey unless you are helping others.

    You are other. I definitely am. How do we help our selves? By speeding up our luvviness ... perhaps ...

    Bunks
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