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Abortion and Euthynasia- Reality Check
Angus
Vietnam Explorer
In this day and age when millions of people are murdered legally every day, isnt it about time that so called Buddhists stood up to be counted? I mean rather than supporting these killings because it is convenient to us should we not oppose them ? I have even heard
so called Buddhists saying that there are is absolute moralty in Buddhism, thereby opening the door to all kind of abuse. The Buddha said No Killing, it is the 1st precept and isnt it about time that western woke buddhists took notice rather than just trying to twist everything to make their lives easier.
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No. It’s none of your business. You’re.not the morality police, if you don’t want to have an abortion or don’t need to bec your life is at risk….then don’t . It’s that simple. I haven’t asked you for a list of your “sins” so we all can stand in judgement of you…show the same respect.
Reality cheque in the post.
Maybe not all Buddhists add up to your reality? Buddhas say all sorts of things...
Your take is very simplistic and assumes a lot about when life starts and when abortion or euthanasia count ethically as murder. It also considers no balance on the life and well being of the mother or terminally ill person. Its a very judgmental stance based on beliefs that can't be proven to others.
On euthanasia, death is inevitable. If a person is suffering needlessly and will die anyway, why not send them to their rest in peace and comfort? My stepfather suffered from an obstructed bowel and would have died within two or three weeks in terrible pain without any treatment, instead he received morphine and died in a week. Seems compassion to me.
Where would you draw the line? I remember in the last thread @Angus posted on this I came across an article about the Netherlands allowing assisted suicide for a 29 year old suffering from persistent and severe mental illness.
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45117163
Those are pretty exceptional cases though. There is a long series of interviews you have to go through to be allowed euthanasia in the Netherlands if you’re relatively healthy, it takes years. Basically you have to convince people that your suffering is “unbearable” and that there are no prospects for its relief.
I think there is a good case to be made for the individual in the article, there's also a good case against it, I'm just saying I think it a valid case to be made. Why I ask where you draw the line is as something like her case becomes accepted and normalized, less clear cases will start coming up and new norms may be developed to the point that we could end up in a place that might shock people's sensibilities today. That's a bit of a slippery slope worry. But having some sort of clear idea of where a line may exist helps us avoid said slope.
In the ultimate Buddhist sense "karma & rebirth" plays a key role in how one's life
unfolds...
Karma and Rebirth are inter-relative, one depends on the other...
Thus have I heard ... the conception of a human being depends on three important factors.
1) The coming together of the male and female elements (conception can take place either in a test tube or in the womb) 2) The proper time, during the fertile period of the mother. And 3) A being which is ready to be born (if for whatever reason a embryo/foetus is aborted it's possible the karmic conditions were not quite right for that being).
Where possible Do no harm and if you find that difficult to do, then do the least harm possible under the present circumstances...
We all come across moral dilemmas in which we have to make moral choices, some more difficult than others...
There are millions of Buddhists and not all Buddhists sing from the same hymn sheet...
Remember: Buddhist precepts are not commandments which must be obeyed , they are just guidelines/a formula for the Buddhists (lay and monastics) in how to train the mind along with other Dharma practices and in doing so, suffering all around will gradually decrease...
And ... practice makes perfect and perfect practice makes perfect practice...
I remember hearing once the view that whatever happens to a person must be part of his karma, so if that includes a horribly painful death then it must be some karma ripening. By that leaf why would you do anything at all?
The Bodhisattva ideal is to save everyone, not to let them all suffer until their karma extinguishes itself.
My karma has improved no end, since I abandoned all Mahayana and third wheel turning Vajrayana precepts. As for Hinayana (Theravadin), I look forward to meeting them. Nowhere.
Saving all blades of grass according to some Mayan suitors... er Mahayana suttas is too wild for me...
I'll be in the beginners corner if anyone needs me
If Buddhism were an actual religion with a central organizing structure and a team of strategists and PR specialists, then you might have someone to whom you could direct your request.
But it isn’t anything like that. Buddhism is a mindset, and a large collection of written material that you can access to help with your own enlightenment. If you’re doing this, and through your efforts you have determined that the world is wrong and you are right, then you certainly have the ability to direct your wisdom — and requests — to the relevant legislative entities. If you reside within their jurisdiction then you may perhaps have standing to be heard (if the jurisdiction is a democracy).
Speaking only for myself, I find the issues of both a woman’s right to make her own decisions without the interference of a sanctimonious self-righteous beaurocracy, and access to compassionate care at the end of life, to be self-evidently moral, and I advocate vigorously for both. Neither position confers any convenience on me; I am not choosing a path of making my own life easier, I am choosing a path of making others’ lives (and inevitable deaths) better.
Efforts to vilify abortion and euthanasia will not eliminate abortion and euthanasia. Both preceded and will outlast ephemeral emotional politics.
The "pro-lifers" kill people for their "cause". Imagine that.