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The Heart of the Buddha's Teachings Book Club
Jerbear
Veteran
Hey Everyone,
This is where we can post messages regarding the book that we will be reading "The Heart of The Buddha's Teaching". You can post as time allows you. It will not be a real time discussion as we all live in different parts of the world, and have different schedules. If you want to be part of the discussion, just make sure to read the chapter for the week. We will be starting 10/17/05, I think. I need to look back and see what I originally posted. But that would give everyone plenty of time to get the book and read the first chapter. We would love to have you.
This is where we can post messages regarding the book that we will be reading "The Heart of The Buddha's Teaching". You can post as time allows you. It will not be a real time discussion as we all live in different parts of the world, and have different schedules. If you want to be part of the discussion, just make sure to read the chapter for the week. We will be starting 10/17/05, I think. I need to look back and see what I originally posted. But that would give everyone plenty of time to get the book and read the first chapter. We would love to have you.
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Comments
What's going on? Who did this? What's happening!?!?!?
How are we doing an Oprah (blech) Book Club reading without us knowing the author and if we can get it so we can participate!!?!?!?!
Information! I demand more information!
-bf
(Rider. 1998. ISBN 0-7126-7003-3)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0712670033/qid=1128801171/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-4786570-8798267?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
and
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767903692/qid=1128801171/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4786570-8798267?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Buddhafoot,
I'm sorry if I have offended your sensibilities by even thinking that I would relate anything on this board with an Oprah bookclub. In the time her show has been on, I don't think I've watched a whole episode. Would book discussion forum be better?
You know, Jerbear...
I don't know you, but I really like you already!
-bf
p.s. I'll see if I can pick this book up locally.
I picked it up at a local Barnes & Noble. I've seen it all over the place so it should be easy to find locally. I hope you're able to join. Oprah will not be involved.
Went and picked mine up tonight.
Now, can we read ahead? Do I get extra time to sound out the big words?
-bf
Hmmm.... I'm confused.
Could you point out this "book forum" thread for me? And the layout and all that?
I know you look up to me and think I'm smart as all get out and could find this all by my lil ole self - but that's because you don't know me very well. I can be as dumb as a post.
-bf
First of all, you're in the "forum" or "thread" . The lay out is that we will read a chapter or a set number of pages if something is really long and discuss it by posting our thoughts about what we read and try to learn from each other. Give it a try, you might like it.
It had been a long time since I had picked up this book. The chapters in the beginning are very short. Would people prefer to do 2
chapters a week for a while until the chapters get a bit longer. There wouldn't be a whole lot to say. I was at work the other night and read the first 4 chapters in less than 30 minutes. And I read slow. Let me know. I should have said something sooner but I've been busy since I got off work Friday morning, so my apologies.
I would be up for reading more than one chapter per "session".
-bf
The first chapter kind of threw me for a loop and may have to talk with my teacher with after rereading it this evening. My understanding is that we all have the power to awaken. Nhat Hahn says that there is the Buddha in all of us. I do like the idea of us looking at our own suffering and using the Four Noble Truths to prescribe a course of action to end that particular suffering. The part that threw me is that the Buddha is in us. Reminds me too much of Jesus being in one's heart in the "born again" way. Any thoughts on that?
Also, it was great in Chapter 1 that he points out there is more to life than suffering. I have had suffering but also had some good times also. The thing that initially attracted me to Buddhism was the transformation of suffering into peace. I have been a 12 stepper for over 16 years but still hadn't found peace.
In Chapter 2, I admire the Buddha sitting under the Bodhi tree and refusing to get up until he reaches enlightenment. We do have to keep in mind the 6 years he spent as an ascetic before this incident. Now, I'm not sure that the earth shook and voices were heard saying that an enlightened person had been born. I believe it is just metaphor as it is through the whole cosmos this is supposed to have happened. I don't know though. I'm glad Buddha reached enlightenment as a man because it gives us hope as humans to reach enlightenment.
So what are your all's thoughts on these chapters? Feel free to post.
I was thinking.... WTF!?!?!!? Where did the Buddha come from?
But then I realized (after sounding out the big words) that it once again was referring to (at least my interpretation) taking our pain to the Buddha in each of us - the realization, the awakening, to the seeds of Buddha's teachings that grow within us - take our suffering there. Let Buddha's teaching teach us how to deal with our suffering - awaken to it's causes and learn how to remove this suffering from our lives.
It was also a good point in stating that life is not suffering. That we have enough suffering - but suffer we will. When there is no suffering, enjoy life to it's fullest. I think realizing your suffering for what it truly is - is a way to come to terms with it. Could be in the same way that people resolve suffering with various head doctors and therapists.
Chapter 2
It is easy to forget that Siddartha spent many years trying to come to terms with what he saw and felt. I think sometimes we get caught up in trying to reach awakening before we've ever set our foot on the path. On the other hand, I think that sometimes "awakening" is blown up into something so hugely BIG that we wouldn't know awakening if it jumped up and bit us in the nose.
The portion where all the brahman, monastics, etc all made a great sound when he spoke the truth to his friends - hmmm... I don't know where I'm at with that - but it's a good read.
It was also the beginning (in the book) of laying out the thoughts of the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path.
Thich makes a point of stating that life is to be lived - not to be escaped. I believe there are some thoughts of Buddhism that regarding following the Path - almost like an escape - so that they can put all their efforts into attaining Enlightenment.
I just wonder what those 49 days, after he "awoke", were like?
-bf
A side note to you Buddhafoot. Just because you have to sound out the big words doesn't mean that much. My teacher has said that both of us are left brained people (thinkers) rather than right brain people (more intuitive). Both have good and bad qualities. Or you could be pulling my leg and my left brain is taking what you say and believing it. Either way, thank you for responding.
What about the rest of you guys? Feel free to post!
At least we'll be able to mow through the book now!
-bf
We are often accused of being hooked on 'suffering', as Buddhists, but it is the world that is hooked on denial. Unless we can recognise our suffering, dissatisfaction, disappointment, how can we enjoy the wonders of happiness, pleasure and excitement that the world also offers?
There is a strong tendency in today's spiritualities to focus on 'success' (being defined by being happy/prosperous/etc), which then mean that, if we are not in those states, we are 'failing'. What Master 'Thay' seems to me to be saying here is that we need a 'soft' heart, even a broken heart, before we can really enter the heart of the Dharma.
This doesn't mean that we spend our time wringing our hands and wailing. On the contrary, how else can we come to understand the need for a message of hope, if we have no felt hopelessness?
What struck me, too, is that Thay starts exactly where the Buddha starts. It may not be the classic presentation of the Noble Truths, but they are there: suffering exists, I can choose to wallow in it which will make it feel even worse, but there is a way out, through the compassion that arises when we practise to be happy.
Wow... you are quite the backslider, aren't you, my friend?
That's a good point about suffering.
I think most people, given to religious tendancies, keep searching, weeping, wailing, gnashing their teeth, praying for happiness. They want things that they think will bring them happiness - but it doesn't.
With Buddhism, you realize there is going to be suffering in your life - for whatever reason. Praying for someone else to do something about it, from experience, doesn't amount to much. But, learning by this suffering, to recognize what it is and then taking steps to remove it - that's the key.
I sometimes wonder if Enlightenment is really all that much? It could just be that awakening means that as we go through life - we see things for what they are. Happiness is temporary. Suffering is temporary. The moment is key though.
Enjoy life to it's fullest. Enjoy all the mysteries of life. When either happiness or suffering become "the moment" - recognize it for what it is - just another life experience - while not forgetting everything else that can happen in "that moment".
-bf
This is precisely how I see it, BF.
Simon,
I spent a decade as a fundamentalist Christian. I saw exactly what you talked about. People treating the Christian faith like Santa Claus. I didn't practice anything for a decade when I was sure that I no longer believed in Christianity. As I've said in other posts, people kept saying I sounded like a Buddhist at heart and that's what got me started. Glad to meet you on my journey.
So, the Buddha didn't actually teach that 'Life is suffering' and that there are 'three types of suffering'.... these teachings were a misrepresentation of his original teaching....
Have I got this right so far?
What he actually taught (according to TNH) is that Life is pretty much as it is... moments of Happiness - which we should accept and enjoy - and moments of Sadness, due to the 5 Kleshas*....
The Four Noble Truths therefore, increase slightly in their complexity, but understanding the True and original meaning of the First Noble Truth actually clarifies and simplifies the others.
The Translations for both 'Dukka' and 'Kleshas' are varied....ie,
"Dukka" is very often translated as "sufferings", but I feel it's a very inadequate translation. A much better translation is "Unsatisfactoriness".
http://www.serve.com/cmtan/buddhism/fournt.html
(I have also seen it translated as stressful, troublesome and even 'undulating' - !!)
and -
"A difficult word to translate, kleshas have been called everything from passions to afflictions to conflicting emotions to disturbing conceptions".
http://www.quietspaces.com/kleshas.html
So, put into really basic layman's terms, we can say this:
That the First Noble Truth says:
Life is sometimes wonderful! Enjoy it, and be glad that that's how it sometimes is!
Life can also suck! And it sucks because we're subject to all kinds of different negative reactions to stuff that happens to us, and we react with: Desire, Anger, Delusion, Pride and Envy. And we generate these emotions in response to outside forces, believing that the more we do so, the more we'll retain control (whereas the exact opposite is true....).
The Second Noble Truth, presumably, refers to our ignorant belief that all of the above is all there is, and our persistent repetition of all this crap is what causes us grief.
How am I doing so far.....?
*The kleshas are emotional obscurations; in contrast to intellectual obscurations. The three primary kleshas, the three poisons, are attachment or desire, aversion or anger, and ignorance or delusion. Along with pride and envy, these are usually referred to as the five kleshas.
http://www.bodhicitta.net/Four%20Noble%20Truths.htm
HH The DL talks about the interpretation of the Suffering, and the three varieties of Suffering.... The very definition TNH rejects, or proposes is incorrect.
So...
What to do?
(Kalama Sutra, perhaps? Find the 'Truth' as you can accept it, gleaning what is most useful to you by combining the two interpretations?)
Before I say anything, let me state that according to TNH, if one goes into a teaching with their mind already made up - there is nothing to be learned. So... I just thought I'd shoot myself in the foot before I even began!
I believe that TNH makes a good point in these first few chapters. We honestly don't know what Buddha taught - but I believe the gist of it is still true. Even if he did teach "Life is suffering" - I don't believe he meant "All that you will do in life for every single minute you live it - is suffer."
And in later chapters of the book, TNH talks about how some monks used to live on the mantra "Life is suffering, life is suffering, life is suffering..." like that is all there was too it.
If Life was only suffering - how would one reach enlightenment? There is no room for learning, for contemplation, for thought, for learning. I mean, it sounds like Buddha's Awakening was like a light being switched on - one second he wasn't - the next he was. But what we don't hear about or know (as far as I know) is what he might have learned during his 6 years with the ascetics. We know he learned that punishing oneself seeking enlightenment doesn't work. If the body is run down - it doesn't work properly in many fashions.
We also don't know what his meditating was about or what he was working on the entire day and night before his awakening.
So, my point, if there is one to be found is: Life is suffering. Life is joy. Life is death. Life is eating, Life is sleeping - Life is all of these things and many more - but you can't just focus on one particular item and have that be the end all be all.
But, since suffering affects so many different parts of our lives, suffering is what most people would choose to get rid of. Then, that makes all the other elements burn so much more brightly.
Does that make any sense?
I'm probably just regurgitating what you already said.
-bf
Fede does make a good point that life can be great and it can suck. In my understanding so far (which is very limited), our states of mind are what we make of it. Through following the Four Noble Truths with the Eightfold Path, we can learn to control these states of mind. We shouldn't be shocked or disenheartened when things don't go as we would like because that's the way things are. Correct?
I would say that is correct.
All things will pass. Any suffering we will go through can pass. Happiness wil pass. Youth will pass. It's how we choose to interact with the moment that is important.
I would say the Middle way is realizing happiness for what it is - and suffering - and youth - and tears - and love - and respecting each of these experiences for what they are. The happiness at a wedding doesn't last - nor does the honeymoon. But, does that mean that once that ecstacy is lost - the marriage isn't what it used to be and therefore, something is wrong with it? I think even a Buddhist mind shouldn't get caught up in ecstacy or jubilation because that is not the Middle Path.
We can also choose to still wallow in suffering even though it has long passed.
-bf
There can't be anyone who has never begrudged waking in the morning: sleep has been so pleasant, dreams so wonderful.
But waking can be desperately desired during nightmares.
As TNH points out, "suffering" is only one of a list (don't Buddhists just love lists!) of the conditions of what is termed samsara. And we haven't addressed that notion yet, I notice.
The First Noble Truth may be phrased as dukkha and we can twist and turn the word but, underneath it, is the more fundamental notion of impermanence. To say "This too shall pass" may be comforting when things are shitty but can, in itself, be a cause of dissatisfaction when we are enjoying life.
It is impermanence which brings us to a realisation that "there must be something solid" and the Truths are there to point to that permanence.
True.
I don't know if it was in this thread or another, but I did post that "this too will pass" is just not in regards to suffering, but for all things.
I'm glad you stressed that point.
-bf
In a wonderful collection of his sermons, H. A. Williams writes: It seems to me that both these passages speak about a similar event: the alchemy by which suffering is destroyed but transformed. In Christian terms, I have called this 'reconciliation', using Paul's word. It is such a mysterious and personal event that even Paul of Tarsus doesn't try to explain the mechanism!
Try to explain how you see the picture behind the patterns of a "Magic Eye" image. You can tell someone to squint, hold the picture to their nose, move it slowly away, etc., etc. You can even tell them what picture they are going to see. But they will not see it for themselves until they see it for themselves! The overlying pattern does not disappear, it is transformed and becomes, in part, elements of the final picture and, for the rest, the background against which the picture detaches itself. No part is lost, all is transformed.
As Edith Sitwell wrote:
Chapter 3 basically explains the Four Noble Truths. I was lucky to not hear anything negative about Buddhism. The only thing I had ever heard about it was M. Scott Peck's book "The Road Less Traveled" which was on psychology. But what jumped out at me is the Third Noble Truth revealing that we can get rid of our suffering. It would be a complete drag to meditate on "Life is Suffering" as mentioned in previous posts. We all know that there is plenty of suffering. The question is how do we stop it. The Four Noble truths point us to the path that helps us to remove our suffering. I try everyday to see where I am contributing to my own suffering. As a beginner at this, if I don't recognize where I am causing the problem, I can't apply the Buddha's teachings to fix it. The other night at work, I caught myself getting angry at a patient because she wasn't acting the way I wanted her too. At 2 am, she had made one of many requests in the past few hours. I felt the anger rising up in me. I went into the kitchen and stopped and realized she wasn't the problem. The problem was that I wanted her to go to sleep and she hadn't yet. The next request of hers was a sleeping pill, which I got the doctor to order and gave to her. I thought that if I hadn't let her get on my nerves, I might have seen her need earlier. A lesson learned over and over again in my field.
I found Chapter 4 amazing in the sense that TNH admits that we don't have perfect sutras or perfect Dharma transmissions. Coming from a fundamentalist Christian background, I'm used to everything being "absolute truth". When I first started reading things about Buddhism, I found it quite easy to see that some things could be understood as either present states of mind or things that may happen in another time. I do catch myself reading some books and thinking it has to be absolute, but when you compare it to other books written on the same subject, it will say something different. Depends on the source material.
What are ya'll getting out of these chapters so far?
One of the things I liked that was pointed out in chapter 3 was the issue of what our suffering means to us and our view of it.
TNH stated that our suffering is "holy". I don't know that I would go that far - but I think some Buddhists come to Buddha's teachings because of the fact that we have to deal with suffering. I also know of people (on this very site) who seemed to have an epiphany when going through their own suffering and how they applied Buddha's teachings to dealing with it.
We're all going to have suffering - it depends on what we're going to do with it. Are we going to learn from it? Or are we just going to ignore what causes our suffering, and as TNH says, drown in a sea of suffering?
And that by acknowledging our suffering and identifying the cause we can take steps to removing this suffering from our lives.
Chapter 4
This is something I could learn to do more of - reading or listening with an open mind. By entering into anything with preconceived notions - you possibly hinder the possibility of learning anything. I know I do this. I have notions of "this is right" or "that is wrong" and then what happens to the teachings?
It was also interesting that TNH said that we all have the truth within us. Not that we have to go searching someplace else to find it - it resides within us. There is no external searching - and as many philosophies state - you are not going to find something "out there" that is going to help you - it has to start within.
I also liked the history that was given on the different schools, the teachings, the documenting of Buddha's teachings, the misinterpretations that have happened over the centuries and using ALL schools of Buddhism to help one realize Buddha's teachings.
It as also an insight regarding some of what Buddha went through before reaching enlightenment - the struggles that he had regarding his search.
Also the statement of "For forty-five years, I have not uttered a single word." indicating, at least to me, that studying or reading or philosophising over words and stories - getting caught up in the Academia of Buddhism is not as important as "the doing".
What I've gleamed, right or wrong, so far.
-bf
Join the club! I think all of us have our pre-conceived notions of what things should be and the way they should be. Trying to remain open minded to the Dharma is a challenge I'm sure all face. If it doesn't coincide with what I want at that moment in time, which wins out? That's what growing is all about. I'm trying to learn how to apply what I'm learning each day. That's all we get anyway.
Isn't it funny that we talk about the Buddha's enlightenment, but his struggle before hand we don't seem to talk about much. It's not as exciting or interesting. I try to think about it everyday to remind myself that the Buddha wasn't born enlightened and didn't get it 15 minutes ago like American culture wants. People can be pretty impatient and want nirvana now. In remembering that he put himself through a lot of suffering before hand, we are going to do the same.
About having the truth in us, I'll just have to believe on that one. I've heard that for so long, but not convinced of yet. I sure can lie to myself pretty good though. LOL!
You are asking the secret question that whispers in the dark shadows of my mind, Jerbear.
"The truth is in all of us"....
I think this is true. I don't know for sure. I'm wondering if "the truth is in you" is what we find out about ourselves that help us reach our goal. In fact, I wonder if "my truth" is different from "Buddha's truth". Maybe enlightenment is different for each. Just as it is stated that there are bodhisatvas who's "strengths" lie in either compassion, or truth, etc. Maybe Buddhahood isn't the same for each person.
I also find a lot of peace in the notion that there are writings or teachings of what Gotama went through before enlightenment. Sometimes, the journey is made to seem as if it never existed.
That Buddha struggled like we struggled makes the Path seem so much more attainable.
-bf
Why does this question whisper in the dark shadows of your mind, Simon.
-bf
Dawn
It is this: what if it's all nonsense? What if there is no truth within us? What if there is only deceit and self-delusion?
What Pilate is purported to say to Jesus came to mind as I read your response. "What is truth?". So, I actually looked it up in the dictionary as it is a word that is thrown around alot but I don't know how many people really know what it means. Truth 1. something factual: the thing that corresponds to fact or reality. Now, as a nurse, I know that there are physiological things that correspond to fact and reality. A patient has an extremely high blood pressure, I give them IV medications to bring it down, and it works. Therefore it is true that we can do somethings to control our physical states.
The problem we face though is our mental states. There are some of my thoughts that are facts that I know to be true, but am I capable of truth? I hope so. I'm not exactly sure that all of the truth is in us. Truth is such a broad category. I think that is why we need each other to point the way to the truth. All of us have our strong points and things that we are better that than others. Just what I was thinking about at work last night in regards to your post that I read at 4:30 AM EST.
These first few chapters are quite short. You can catch up in probably 30 minutes. And I'm a slow reader. Jump in as you want. You're more than welcome to join in.
Simon - something I think about also.
I guess the only consolation one has - given that salvation, Nirvana, another life, etc. are all hearsay - because I don't know of anyone that has been through it nor have I experienced it for myself.
But, as I'm sure you know, it is the beliefs you have that help you find happiness in the life that you have.
Let's say that there is really no Christ. It's all just a myth that hsa been perpetuated throughout time. But, even if it is all a lie - there are still people that find strength and peace in believing this. Is that wrong?
We only know of "this" - and we can only do what we know or think to do.
But then I'm not telling you anything new, am I?
-bf
That is an excellent point about letting people believe what they want as it gets them through this life without killing the government. OOPS, well you might not have said that much but I digress.
Everyone at work knows that I attend a Buddhist temple, and many snicker about it. I let them have their opinions and listen to them respectfully. I always say to them "If it brings you peace and happiness, that is fantastic! Keep doing it" in regards to their spiritual practices. I don't think anyone has the right to tell another person what to believe or think. I went for about 2 years being a militant atheist. What I really was is not allowed to be put on this board. I learned how to alienate a lot of people. Since then I've learned to keep my big mouth shut and live and let live. Every once in a while someone says "Are you still doing that Buddhist thing?". I just say "Yes, I am and really enjoying it" and leave it at that. No one wants someone elses religion rammed down their throat or openly challenged. At heart, I'm an instigator of such conversations, but decided that I would let it go when someone yelled at me on the unit "You we're never a Christian because you no longer believe in it". I got a taste of my own medicine and realized what I was doing. Being a jerk really. I think that word is allowed on here.
Most of my friends and family would consider themselves Christian. I hear there are people who practice Buddhism and Christianity. Not sure how that works, but if it works for them, fantastic! "Let's say that there is really no Christ. It's all just a myth that hsa been perpetuated throughout time. But, even if it is all a lie - there are still people that find strength and peace in believing this. Is that wrong?" Not at all. It's almost like telling kids their is no Santa Claus. I mean that in the sense is that it gives them something to look forward to. I don't want to ever take away anyone's hope. I'm an ICU nurse and see people in some very horrible situations. I am in situations where I'm asked to join in prayer with families with a priest saying it. I bow my head respectfully because it gives the family some comfort. And I'm not going to take that away from them.
I think I've beaten this horse to death now.
I'm going to admit I haven't had time yet to read the chapters, but I'm planning on doing that tonight.
What I wanted to say though was that I can sympathize with your situation at work. Mike and I live in the bible belt and it makes it very difficult for us to openly state our opinions on religion. However, I've never really felt the desire to "convert" anyone. Don't get me wrong I really enjoy having in-depth conversations with people on religion (among other taboo topics), but Mike and I mostly have these with only our closest friends and family. We've always said that at as long as it makes them happy and they can find peace then who are we to judge what they do. What I find hard is when we run into people who try to "convert" us or condemn us for our beliefs or their concept of what our beliefs are. But when you're constantly judged I'm sure that can get really old and test your Buddhist teachings. I would have to say that although it may not be easy try to look at them for who they are - a part of you and the whole. They may be doubting their own beliefs and only poke at yours to provide themselves with some comfort. But in the end everyone is entitled to believe how they wish and if they didn't the government wouldn't include it in our rights!:)
Well I guess I'll go get to reading!
-Dawn
In that year, I have also never had a discussion with anyone about religious beliefs.
Maybe I just live where there is a different mindset.
But, I wouldn't let what someone thought about me bother me too much. I've been in instances where I've had people think poorly of me - people that I didn't know or hardly knew at all. And you know what? They don't really play into my day-to-day life - so I don't really let what they think bother me. To me, what they think doesn't really matter to me at all.
Now, if it was family - that would probably be different. Then you'd have to deal with it.
Maybe if it comes up with family, I'll convert to Druidism and put some fertility monoliths in the living room.
-bf
You crack me up man! Fertility monoliths would crack me up.
Actually, the topic has come up at work as I will be on my lunch break reading a book and then people start talking. I really don't care what my coworkers think as it is my practice and I'm not going to stop doing it because of what they think. I've used the chapel at work to meditate. I work 12 hour shifts so we get one really long break and if I didn't practice before I left for work, I just go to the chapel.
My family knows and I have had some negative feedback but told them it was my choice and they can practice Christianity all they want. The problem is that I converted a few of them to it and no longer believe it. I should probably keep that in mind. But they aren't willing to discuss with me why I no longer believe in Christianity either. So, I'm polite when they pray over meals and such. No reason to argue with them about it. I can't change their minds and they can't change mine.
Dawn,
Hurry up and read the chapters. I'm interested in your input.
Well, having a fertility monolith on the coffee table when your mom is over would be gross.
But a couple of hotties? That would make a great "conversation piece".
Sorry... I digress.
I also don't have a problem with people choosing to do what they do. I have extended family who are bible thumpers to the extreme. I had a little upset happen when I was at dinner with them one time and they asked me to say a prayer. I told them I didn't believe in prayer and wouldn't know what to say or who to say it to! I asked one of them to - which they did - but for awhile the look on their faces was like they had just witnessed me taking a dump on the dinner table instead of the wonderful meal that was there.
-bf
Also, I've gotten that "Crapped in the middle of the living room floor" look also. I should take my digital camera and take pictures of their faces and show them what they look like if they ask me to pray and I chant the Triple Gem.
It can take practice to show (and feel) respect for attitudes and ideas that are not our own, particularly when those ideas are, for example, the ones forced on us as children - if that was our experience. It is often easier to demonise them, as many ex-Christians do when discussing the churches. I know - I do it myself!
What my experience with the Bible Beaters taught me is to question everything. When the gentleman asked the Buddha if he could follow him and the Buddha replied that he needed to investigate the teachings first, that was like rain to parched land for me. Trying to keep an open mind and not letting my brain leak out is tough, but I'm learning.
Now, I can pick up a favourite Christian book, Lewis say, and read the bits that still move me whilst ignoring the ones that don't. It's a bit like re-reading LoTR, which I first read at age 14 and now know so well that I can read it in a day, skipping the tedious bits!