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New jobs to add to the "Wrong Livelihood" list
Bunks
Australia Veteran
@sndymorn posted in an early thread about a committee being set up in buddhism to add new jobs to the list for wrong livelihood.
This got me thinking.
I'd add:
- Advertising Industry (a controversial one I know as there are certain advertisements (community announcements for example) that are possibly beneficial to the community).
- Adult Film Industry
Any others people would like to add or discuss?
This got me thinking.
I'd add:
- Advertising Industry (a controversial one I know as there are certain advertisements (community announcements for example) that are possibly beneficial to the community).
- Adult Film Industry
Any others people would like to add or discuss?
0
Comments
Yes all of these people may be able from time to time to get a different job. Sometimes it's all they know how to do. They are not perfect. I am not justifing their lives, and what they do. If you take something away, then something else has to fill it's place.
What kind of an imagination do you have to have, to actually think of better/more painful ways of killing another creature?
My job is already at the top of the list, but if I was doing some other work I might be worried if some random folks started deciding who's karma was going to take a hit and whose wasn't.
("Cheating on your husband or wife? Nope, she doesn't have a wedding ring. Violent rape? Nope, not unless she wants me to tie her up. Sex with a child? Nope, I checked her ID and it looks legit. Guess I can screw this young woman after she has a few more drinks and I take her someplace private.")
Instead we're assumed to be able to take the Buddhist moral code and apply it to our sex lives to see if it's improper. It's actually a harder path, because we can't wiggle out due to a technicality. If CEO or company president isn't on the list of prescribed livelihoods, then firing a bunch of people and building a polluting factory in China and paying slave wages is all right according to the Dharma, isn't it? Yet another CEO builds a company that provides a vital service and provides jobs to thousands. So is CEO a good or bad livelihood? Does it go on the list, or not?
No list can be truly comprehensive and very few jobs are inherently harmful to ourselves or others and "your milage my vary". How about professional sports? Isn't it harmful to destroy your body or risk hurting and killing others just to provide a violent distraction to the fans, and in the case of something like soccer, it can be argued you're stoking the anger and hatred of the hulligans? So do we put professional soccer player on the proscribed list?
There are many livelihoods where it's not the job description, it's how you do the job that defines if it's right or not. "Avoid earning a living by taking advantage of people and causing suffering." should be enough.
It's not always an easy connection, you have to go back in history, sometimes way back. Also, think about the things you buy and from what companies and countries, and where the money goes. We are all connected, we are all these things. There is no separateness- it's an illusion.
Who killed Davey Moore
Why an’ what’s the reason for?
“Not I,” says the referee
“Don’t point your finger at me
I could’ve stopped it in the eighth
An’ maybe kept him from his fate
But the crowd would’ve booed, I’m sure
At not gettin’ their money’s worth
It’s too bad he had to go
But there was a pressure on me too, you know
It wasn’t me that made him fall
No, you can’t blame me at all”
Who killed Davey Moore
Why an’ what’s the reason for?
“Not us,” says the angry crowd
Whose screams filled the arena loud
“It’s too bad he died that night
But we just like to see a fight
We didn’t mean for him t’ meet his death
We just meant to see some sweat
There ain’t nothing wrong in that
It wasn’t us that made him fall
No, you can’t blame us at all”
Who killed Davey Moore
Why an’ what’s the reason for?
“Not me,” says his manager
Puffing on a big cigar
“It’s hard to say, it’s hard to tell
I always thought that he was well
It’s too bad for his wife an’ kids he’s dead
But if he was sick, he should’ve said
It wasn’t me that made him fall
No, you can’t blame me at all”
Who killed Davey Moore
Why an’ what’s the reason for?
“Not me,” says the gambling man
With his ticket stub still in his hand
“It wasn’t me that knocked him down
My hands never touched him none
I didn’t commit no ugly sin
Anyway, I put money on him to win
It wasn’t me that made him fall
No, you can’t blame me at all”
Who killed Davey Moore
Why an’ what’s the reason for?
“Not me,” says the boxing writer
Pounding print on his old typewriter
Sayin’, “Boxing ain’t to blame
There’s just as much danger in a football game”
Sayin’, “Fistfighting is here to stay
It’s just the old American way
It wasn’t me that made him fall
No, you can’t blame me at all”
Who killed Davey Moore
Why an’ what’s the reason for?
“Not me,” says the man whose fists
Laid him low in a cloud of mist
Who came here from Cuba’s door
Where boxing ain’t allowed no more
“I hit him, yes, it’s true
But that’s what I am paid to do
Don’t say ‘murder,’ don’t say ‘kill’
It was destiny, it was God’s will”
Who killed Davey Moore
Why an’ what’s the reason for?
Either that, or just be sad.
But I'd have a hard time being the person to ruin a person's day by sticking that ticket on the car.
Advertising? Why is it the responsibility of those in advertising to protect us from our inability to say no to a product we know is bad? Whose job is it to protect our minds, and our children's minds from garbage? Ours. No one else's.
Almost everyone here is basically a professional consumer. How many of us work, or live, to pay for the things we have? Most of us. Being consumers is damaging to ourselves, to our society and to our planet. Perhaps we should all work on that and the garbage we fill our lives and minds with instead of drumming up ideas on why this or that job is bad.
See? This is the kind of Black and White thinking that I was talking about in that other thread. If one doesn't look at things/concepts/ideas/problems from ALL sides instead of just labeling things right off the bat as good or bad- where's the Right Thought in that? Where's the Buddhist middle way?
Bingo! IMO it's 'crossing the line' when one goes from deciding what is morally and ethically acceptable for their OWN lives, (based on religious beliefs or otherwise), to what they judge to be morally and ethically acceptable for everyone else.
Now of course, I'm not talking about things like murder or rape or child molestation, etc ... so let's not start splitting those hairs, please.
I believe now the wrong livelihood list dwells in the realm of the ideal which can only be realized by an individual . "I" will not commit violence nor will I allow , even passively, violence to be committed for me. That is one tough row to hoe.
Perhaps I am lost again. I know the pacifist position is a difficult one and to be admired as really there is almost no place one could go where one would not be under the protection another power. But so too does the soldier seeking to free innocence from tyranny have a difficult and admirable position. Where does a person who cannot stomach injustice go?
Someday, may both pacifist and soldier by useless words.
I wanted to be a fighter pilot as a kid(grandfather was a ww2 p-51 pilot).. Even worked towards that and tried to join as a young adult. Now im glad I never was because I wouldn't of wanted to bomb people. I'd sure still love to fly in one of those before I die though.
They are just like any other being stuck in samsara to me and deserve my equanimity.
One of my best jobs was working in a betting shop. I used to feel guilty but a lot of old men used to come in for a bit of company and a laugh, and so i didn't feel so bad!
Godbless
Nutkins
But, that gave me the chance to see the problem with gambling. Most of the people there were people who obviously didn't really have money to waste on gambling.
Forest monks arnt allowed to even own money.
So sorry, I finally had to chime in on this thread. As others have pointed out above, The Lord Buddha never did speak of wrong livelihood, just Right Livelihood. I think the purport of that is we need to address this issue conscientiously within ourselves, and not to be judgmental but rather expanding towards what is more beneficial to all. The judgmental is not forward thinking at all and isolates, whereas the expansive light-seeker is poised towards future beneficent growth.
helped missiles from getting lost.
Right livelihood? Thats for each to decide on their own. my dad worked on GPS satelites. i work with preschoolers, maybe one of these kids that i teach will grow up to be in the military and uses GPS to drop a bomb on someone, but maybe he/ she won't.. theres only a fine line between right/wrong. very, very, very fine.
Completely unrelated, your mention of GPS made me dig mine out and get our swag box ready for geocaching. Once the snow melts anyhow, we have a storm in progress, lol
"The Lord Buddha never did spell out Wrong Livelihood in the Eightfold Path," I should have said to make my point clearer. "No, it was just Right Livelihood. I think the purport of that is we need to address this issue conscientiously within ourselves, and not to be judgmental but rather expanding towards what is more beneficial to all. The judgmental is not forward thinking at all and isolates, whereas the expansive light-seeker is poised towards future beneficent growth."
I work in the television industry as an audio mixer (I mix the final finished sound tracks for shows of a certain family of cable networks you've probably heard of) and I have thought about the "right livelihood" question. While I HAVE worked on some programming with good science-content, the day I'm assigned to work on an episode of "Honey Boo-Boo" ( I just let THAT cat out of the bag, didn't I?) is the day I will re-visit that question of right-livelihood.
And honestly, Alana makes me laugh sometimes! She's just a weird, funny little KID, in a weird reality show situation...
Not trying to argue or chide, just offering a different perspective.
Gun shop owner
Pimp
Soldier
Butcher
Weapons manufacturer
Porn
Processed food designer
Political campaign manager
Banker
Stock Broker
Public relations
Rap star
Heavy metal musician
Pop star
Lawyer
Reality TV producer
Designer for violent video games
Producer of violent movies
Advertising
Fast food manager
Farmer
Fisherman
Rancher
Veterinarian (puts animals to sleep)
Funeral director (profit from people dying)
Actor (acting is a form of lying)
Profession involved in horse racing
Profession involved in dog racing
Animal breeder
Trucker (think of all the gas used and bugs killed while driving)
Shipper (feul usage and shipping containers spilt in the ocean)
Oilman
Extraction of natural gas
Geologist helping with extraction of natural resources
Electronics manufacturer
Chemical manufacturer
Sweat shop owner
Bouncer
Private Investigator
Bounty Hunter
Pawn shop owner
Medical researcher that tests on animals
Pharmaceutical manufacturer
Bartender
Casino owner
Big box retailer
Professional athlete (as it was pointed out, sports riles people up)
Plastic surgeon
Orthodontist
Make up sales
Clothing designer
Jeweler
Logger
Miner
Anything in construction (so much land destroyed and materials wasted)
Bee keeper
Insurance adjuster (have to turn people away who need help)
Politician
Gossip reporter
Poker player
Police (has to use violence on occasion)
Any kind of salesman (you have to be misleading and even lie)
Union employee (Unions are destroying the country)
Independent contractor (Business has no responsibility to its employees)
Teacher (they teach things not in line with Buddhist thinking)
Doctor (healing someone is interfering with their natural karma)
Parking attendant
Maybe we should add parenting to the list, because that is one job it's almost impossible not to screw up another human being in one way or another.