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I would like to float this pass you... "Levitation.... True or False ?"
Shoshin
No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
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Watched before, and heard the real reason they keep distance and he's against a cloth background is that it's more magic trick than "magick". No clue though, but doubtful of such things given the preponderance of con-artistry humans wade in.
. :rolleyes: .. I like to think I have an open mind...But not so open that my brains fall out...(Not that I've ever seen my brain to know for sure that I actually have one) .
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@Shoshin Yes, open enough to change as evidence is presented, but not so open as to believe without evidence (especially things we'd like to believe, making us even more vulnerable)!
If Penn & Teller can do it, in fact let's lower it from first-rate to any third-rate magician, I'm not going to believe it unless it's actually tested. They made sure to leave plenty of room for trickery in this instance (not that trickery normally needs lots of room; look at David Blaine!).
As someone who has superpowers (humility for example) :screwy: . levitation and defying conventional things such as gravity, is outside of my experience and pay grade. Do some people have such capacities? I see no reason why not, it seems entirely consistent with the way things unravel.
The Buddha did warn one of his followers not to display the capacity to defy conventional physics. Tends to lead to crucifixion, dissection or camera crews. No peace for the gifted.
'With great power, comes great responsibility'
SpiderBodhi
Silliness.
Don't get me started on the antics of Penn and Teller. I lost all respect for them after the "expose" of Mother Teresa and the Dalai Lama.
They do like to con.
@Shoshin
"Levitation.... True or False ?"
True as a fostering of self power.
False as having anything to do with suffering's cessation.
I hadn't seen that episode before...until you mentioned it...so I watched it.
I don't have enough knowledge of the facts to argue their facts....but I did get their point. Putting anyone on a pedestal can be a dangerous thing. Any religious figure has a PR machine behind them. To think otherwise would be naive. And all of the figures they mentioned are on record as saying things that have certainly made my brow rise.
That in no way lessons what impact they had/have on changing peoples lives for the better.....but recognizing BS or imperfection has it's place as well....for many reasons.
the OP:
Levitation? --- yep......right next to the guy who walks on water. I've also heard of a guy who can part the seas. .. :crazy: ...
Somehow it reminds me of the Buddhist temple I visited in northern Thailand where a mae chee (nun) would float upside down on her back in a pond and whistle a blessing on those who paid for the privilege.
Anything that defies the laws of physics as much as levitation does (that which our minds have been conditioned to accept) is hard to swallow, this is not to say that in time one can't change ones mind to accommodate such things...
http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/photos/21-images-seemingly-defy-laws-physics
Also what beneficial purpose would levitation serve ? I can only think of party tricks...
Plus it would seem that those seen levitating on youtube clips don't have much control ie free movement and they move really slow, so it can't even help one to escape danger (a quick exit).. and what would happen in a strong wind ?
It would have been a lot easier to check out the girls dressing room when I went to school.
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Those windows were pretty high up...
Or breaking wind...
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"Huston..We have blast off !" .
.. So there could be a beneficial purpose after all....
@ourself Well I didn't want to get you started, but you brought it up.
What part of their "expose", whatever that was, did you find problematic?
I have to wonder . . . how could the ideas of humans levitating or being in two places at once or starting fires with their index fingers ever come to be? Granted, our human imaginations are extraordinary (going both ways), and a stone age man who dreams of flying (while sleeping or in a sacred plant trance) would have inserted those ideas in the collective imagination.
It makes me wonder if indeed these abilities exist, though they MUST be incredibly rare, but in order to have become such a huge part of our collective imagination, across all borders of all types of culture, there must be some truth in them?
I like how you put it @Shoshin, I too am open minded almost dangerously, but I 'buy' very, very little (the older I get
). And if my brains fell out, I'd at least have visual proof I have them.
@Hamsaka More people believe in various gods than in people levitating or starting fires with magical powers. That ideas seem almost universal seems beside the point of whether they are true. Humans have a lot in common! The idea of UFOs flying around the planet really took off, to where insane numbers of people began having similar stories and describing encounters with similar types of beings (i.e. Greys). How about vampires? No real truth to vampires, is there? Our "collective" is as full of the fictional and superstitious as anything.
Check out Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World"; the things we humans believe.
Yes @AldrisTorvalds. Except that I'm entertaining the idea that these 'beliefs' began on a positive note, rather than a delusional one. I'm not stuck on the idea, it just makes more sense than humans dreaming up nonsense from scratch.
I can hear you laughing!
UF
OM (Possibly Zen monks in grey robes practicing levitation and just passed wind-easy mistake)Just to be perfectly clear. I have no problem believing in supernormal powers. But levitation is one I have not seen to date.
@Hamsaka It's an interesting thought, but we can never really get back to the source and know what sparked any idea or belief. All that we can do is try and find out, here and now, if something matches up with reality. I'm not laughing, just smiling a bit.
See, this is what I mean @Shoshin (I think).
Someone saw someone levitate. Probably a bunch of people over time saw (or believed they saw, more likely) someone levitate, or shoot fire out of an orifice, or cause it to rain or whatever. That's what I mean by a 'positive' cause, rather than a 'negative' one (humans coming up with such out of thin air).
The idea of UFOs and little grey aliens is drop-dead truth to those who claim to have encountered them. The tales are recounted with the greatest sincerity, and we human are programmed to note and rely on this sincerity (barring proof).
For instance, I've seen no proof at all that the moon is not made of white cheddar. Or that my body is 97% empty space between whizzing atoms. I rely on experts to tell me these things, I believe them. Has the local quantum physicist PROVEN quantum physics to me? There's a lot we humans believe that is beyond outrageous. My point is, I wonder if there are kernels of 'truth' at the center of these outrageous claims. The kernel may be pathetic in comparison to the end story (UFOs and little grey guys), of course.
Same here, but just because I haven't witnessed it, doesn't mean it can't be done.
I'd go further to say that if (and it's a big IF) science says it's impossible, I'd take it with a grain of salt to await definitive evidence.
In the meantime it's hardly important enouugh to justify even this slight missive.
I think this last part, taking it with a grain of salt and awaiting definitive evidence, should be the default even if "Science" hasn't chimed in at all. The majority of beliefs about supernatural, paranormal, and extraterrestrial claims (to name a few areas) have not been, and will not likely be, addressed by Science.
That Science hasn't said something is impossible has the corollary of Science not having said something is possible either. Will we be responsible arbiters of truth in the cases where our collective sciences have said nothing? Because most of what people believe falls into that realm, and I think people are prone to believing things for bad reasons.
I skimmed through the entire film and leaving the monk out of it the Supernaturalist seems a bit unserious to me. He does some of the tricks using camera FX instead of slight of hand. And in at least one place it is obvious that the person he is interacting with is totally in on it.
Se the shaman scene for instance. min 25 and forward. The cut when he changes the painting is really lousy.
diligent meditation on four elements would help to find evidence
actually six elements , earth, water, fire, air, space and consciousness
@upekka Evidence of what?
evidence for levitation
one does not have to believe, one knows
False.
And worse than irrelevant.
@upekka I think you're daydreaming!
I'm going to start another thread with the Penn and Teller episode that @ourself is talking about....I'll post a link to the episode...in case anyone wants to get started about it...hahaha
one does not have to believe, one knows
You are so sincere in your posts, but I have to agree -- without frustration or judgment -- that 'one does not have to believe, one knows' is no explanation at all. Perhaps it is not meant to be? This sounds like a statement of faith, which is (in the English language, anyway) at odds with 'evidence' in just about every semantic way possible.
That said, if I'm honest, I'd have to admit "I just know" is the implicit conclusion I draw here and there, too. That is a whole different thing than telling another person that this is interchangeable with evidence. This is a universal problem with sharing these kinds of experiences with one another, and we are beating each other over the head right left and center for not 'getting' what is so obvious to us.
We need to do better than 'one does not have to believe, one knows'. It is not compassionate at all, it lacks understanding of how these things are experienced, and too often are the words that condemn and shame those who 'don't believe'.
The provided video form the first post, is conjuring, a staged special effect. Not particularly good either.
If you wish to learn conjuring or show biz, then I would suggest a wizarding form of Buddhism.
For example Tumo is a good party trick, quite genuine.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo
This guy even provides a through the Internet course. Impress your Buddhist Friends . . . or not . . .
would never be able by using any amount of words in any language
that is why
'diligent meditation on elements' is needed
without practising how can one experience levitation?
if one practiced and experienced levitation, would one need any explanation (evidence) to know (believe) levitation?
levitation, reading minds, hearing things and knowing the meaning of them etc. are side gains one would obtain because of meditation
but
Buddha never encourage them because all such things are second to seeing the Four Noble Truth
@Upekka; possibly. To a westerner steeped in materialism (not a bad thing, a necessary thing in balance) it sounds exactly as bizarre as being 'saved' by a man who died 2000 years ago, not to mention his ascension to heaven or wherever he's said to have gone.
It's not that we don't want to believe it. It's that it strains credulity and it ought to.
There's not much difference on the surface to say quantum physics strains credulity -- but that the claims of quantum physics are reproducible by anyone with a particle collider, whether they buy the ideas or not give quantum physics a stable foundation of truth whether or not quantum physics is something one can experience directly or not.
It's why levitation and psi powers etc are less salvageable as ideas, because people who don't believe (yet) have no way of setting up the conditions to reproduce the experience themselves. There is one way to observe the various ways of electrons, but a million and a half 'ways' to levitate or observe levitation, and unlike the theory of quantum physics, the ways and means to levitate are unpredictable. The beginning of belief has to be outside the self -- what is believed cannot serve the ego's needs. I'm afraid levitation and psi phenomena are too cute and self serving as ideas to be directly believable. Interesting, yes. I wouldn't kick it out of bed just in case it's true, but I won't be making big decisions or choices based on the possibilities until the day I do levitate or see someone doing it without a pole hidden beneath their robes
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I'm pretty sure that monks have a vow not to display any powers they may obtain. Two the "monk" chants a basic Chenrezig mantra, Om Mani Padme Hum, for preparation which doesn't seem to me to be part of a technique to levitate. Third, its part of a movie or TV show made for ratings which certainly puts it into the category of possibly being staged.
I rule bunk on this one.
Many who say things like that have never even fostered the dream of having a thought of trying.
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And how do you know it can not be done unless you have tried?
Are there any serious scientific studies in the subject?
So I would like to know how you know she is daydreaming?
Just a little pause for thought.
On the contrary kasina meditation is the recorded path to take.
But I am pretty sure this film is a fake.
/Victor
According to QP our feet don't really touch the ground anyway and neither do our backsides connect with the seat....So life's one big levitational trip...(life according to QP that is)
LOL! Exactly. Now one thing (well, many things) that I do give a lot of credence are the feats of extreme physical control, such as the yogis manage. There are completely secular people capable of extreme physical feats that might as well be magic for the impossibility. On some docu a man was able to tolerate extremely freezing water, dunked in naked, for I don't know how much time. Any amount of time is unthinkable! This is something yogis are reported to do commonly, sitting with a rag around their privates for days on end in all weather. The Guinness Book of World Records has some interesting, verified feats of human endeavor that might as well be magical for the average person.
Perhaps this kind of 'extraordinary' is at the root of flying yogis or shamans who turn into eagles.
Wim Hof uses tummo, a readily available teaching to control his autonomous system. It seems magical but has been tested and is genuine. See him in the video I posted earlier.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof
Yogic flying is not being studied, probably no landing site available . . .
However visualisation and other mind training is being used by medicine.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogenic_training
Likewise there are many things that seems magical have not been tested but are still genuine.
If you trust your own ability and try things out instead of discarding it at a first glance it is much more probable that you will discover what is genuine for yourself.
And I am speaking from experience.
/Victor
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I like it..... :om: ..
Now it's quite possible the reason why there's not been any real scientific study done, nor large audiences to witness such an event, could be something to do with the negative energies emitted by us sceptics,(the "yeah right and pigs will fly"-kind of energy) we might be blocking the pure energy needed by the levitator to work its magic enabling their physical body to become hologram-like and start to float... "Form is Emptiness...Emptiness is Form" Quantum physics at work...
There's more to life than what meets the
eyeIJust trying to be de-sceptical with my thoughts (if that's at all possible) .
Controling body functions has been proven for a long time now....
I think we're speaking of levitation. This answer of...you have to try it to achieve it and then you will know, would have to apply to other super human things....
Who here as tried to walk on water? How did it go? Did it not work bec you didn't believe/think hard enough?
If it did work....why?
We can't say parting the seas is impossible bec its another religion's calling card...but levitation is totally true bec its "our" calling card.
Does ice skating count .
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Levitation! Ha! Haaa! Haaaaaaaaa!!!!
Seriously what did you want to ask?
The laws of physics will stop working just for me?
do 'we - science' know all the laws of physics by now?
specially the relationship among heat, energy and consciousness?
changing heat, energy to mindfulness and concentration ?
reduction of body heat, changing energy with increasing mental absorption (from material absorption to immaterial absorption to 9th absorption)?
what do we know about these things to laugh at levitation and other 'siddhis'?
A logical fallacy called "Argument From Ignorance" can take the form "Because you don't know everything, X is True or Likely True". It has been used for gods and everything else, and here it's being used for levitation. Absence of evidence may not be evidence of absence, but it is evidence of absence of evidence.
I'm not sure who's "laughing" in this thread, I think people are just being reasonable in expecting that a thing should be proven before believed. And when people say "meditate and you'll know" in regards to levitation... that's as--let's say silly--as similar comments that Christians make about finding the Holy Spirit in your heart and "knowing God". It's the last fallback of people who can't make a compelling case for their claims; a position of ignorance and condescension.
I'll leave it there and you guys can argue if you want, but it won't resolve anything. People who want to believe in unproven things will believe in them, and people who expect evidence will not (until that evidence turns up, as it should if a thing is true). Levitation may be true, and that would be cool, but no one should claim to "know" this... and if you do, tell whoever to go to the James Randi Educational Foundation and claim their million bucks. They could feed many starving kids with that money!
I suppose if someone levitated for all the world to see it would be pretty cool.
A manned expedition to Mars, now that would be spectacular!
@Aldris, dear
reading your post brought a big smile, thanks
Well said.
It's implied that 'making a case for one's claims' is necessary to spread the Good News, or so I thought. Instead of making a compelling case, the reluctant-to-believe are blamed for some moral shortcoming. Now THAT is convincing (not). Imply I lack basic intelligence and ethics for not buying your utterly bizarre worldview, go right ahead. Clearly this does motivate a lot of people, though. It strokes their ego. All around, this is a dangerous thing.
I just have a hard time seeing the usefulness of such a feat.
If anyone can do it, it would be better if you didn't bother telling too many people about it. It has the potential to confuse and feed the delusions of others.
Healing the sick, feeding the hungry, schooling the ignorant... Isn't there something better than levitation in that bag of tricks?
Hell yeah. Here's your sign. If it serves some bloated self-aggrandized image of yourself as wooo woooooo powerful and special, it's not worth the air you displace while levitating. What about getting food and basic medical supplies into Liberia to stop the Ebola outbreak? That seems to be a feat beyond current abilities, not that the African nations are making it any easier. Imagine running water and soap, the simplest way to prevent the spread of the virus, and what a miracle that would be. Excellent point, I could really get going on this one.