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Pray for the Children...
federica
Seeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
...Pray for everyone.
"The killing of innocent children is contrary to Islam".
I cannot even find the words....
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Comments
Sadness.
I am now going to look how I can do metta meditation.
I can find the words but they're not fit for printing.......
How can someone seriously sleep at night after killing a child?
It beggars belief.
I hear ya @Bunks. It's a real challenge, isn't it, to cultivate Compassion here.....
I'm just shaking my head, literally, I just don't know what to say or think......
Is it alright for buddhists in times like this to have some kind of faith in karma?
No.
Karma is not judgemental, vindictive or retaliatory.
It's not their karma, collective or otherwise.
I presume you are talking about the children's karma?
Karma doesn't work that way.
The word Karma merely means Action.
Deliberate, wilful pre-meditated, volitional action.
I feel for the parents....You send your little one off to school and they never come back...
.... * sigh *
@federica
I see I didn't know that, thanks! I guess I was still stuck the way I understood it from my old yoga master. He always thought karma you would take with you in next life, and if his bycicle got stolen he said he might have been horse thief or something. But I see buddhist entitle it to something different. Thanks I will go and look it up, I am still to new I guess!
Metta, metta, metta. For the sake of the world, metta.
I am distressed by the world as it plays out as it does
I am sorry that some people cannot see the world for what it is
I am deeply offended by the use of religion as an excuse for such depraved behaviour
I take refuge in the buddha
I take refuge in the sangha
I take refuge in the dharma
Same feeling here.
Can't come up with words that fit the "Right Speech" heading.
My metta is unfortunately very restricted this evening.
For the soul of those children.
For their families.
Only.
This is how to understand . . . just possibly . . . compassion in such a situation.
You are angry, some of you may even have arisings of, 'killing/death penalty is too good for these sub human child murderers.'
Now, making no excuses, imagine you are a young person with limited options in the rural ignorance that covers much of Pakistan. Your village elders are all Moslems, the only education is the madrasa (local Islamic indoctrination centre, closest thing to an education), maybe run by the Taliban. Your village is wiped out by the central governments anti Taliban efforts. Maybe you see the guts of your brothers, baby sister, friends, parents . . . How can anyone who does such things be a religious person?
Hatred is born. Revenge is born. The rest is more tragedy.
How difficult it is to turn the other cheek, to practice peace (Islam) when our most precious jewels are molested or murdered.
You thought you are on a path for perfect beings? Sit quietly without fuming. This Boddhisattva path was started by a calm warrior, radiating peace in the midst of chaos and ignorance.
@Bunks -- Couldn't agree more ... it is apostate in every possible sense.
And yet too I think it serves as a serious warning to those who would believe ... believe and hence separate that which cannot even be called "one."
Your village elders are all Moslems, the only education is the madrasa (local Islamic indoctrination centre, closest thing to an education), maybe run by the Taliban.
No, these are Taliban incursions, basically they are insurgents who are intent on anarchy.
The Pakistani military has been trying to drive them out for some time, perhaps this latest atrocity will be the catalyst for a full-scale assault to obliterate these fascist thugs.
@SpinyNorman -- Anarchy has no ostensible format. These guys are hell-bent-for-leather to have the rest of the world see things as they do. It is a very, very strict format.
Like former U.S. president Dick Cheney, they are exceptionalists who hardly care who gets hurt as long as they get their one-true-vision enthroned.
Anyone seriously interested in the parallel rise of Middle Eastern 'terrorism' and neo-conservatism in the west could be informed by the BBC's "The Power of Nightmares." At three hours in length, this is not for the Twitter-minded. But it is a carefully researched and quietly-delivered depiction of horrific single-mindedness East and West.
From Wikipedia:
You can watch it for free if you have the gumption and stomach for it. It comes in three segments. Here is segment number one.
Buddha's teachings did included cause and effect, law of karma for the volitional actions done either in this life or in previous past lives. So unfortunate death which happened to these school children would have been a negative effect of some bad actions in their previous lives, may be combined effect of many small negative actions ripening into a single gross effect in this life.
Anyways, this thread is not about discussing law of karma, rather for the tragic incident which happened in Pakistan yesterday.
Metta to those children who died yesterday. May they be at peace within themselves. Metta to the parents and relatives of those, who died yesterday.
Metta to all sentient beings.
Sorry @misecmisc1, I cannot buy into tha totally speculative notion. The Laws of Kamma are too convoluted and complex for us to even hazard a guess at.
And really, as you so correctly point out, it's neither the time nor the place.
But thank you for commenting.
When tragedy like this happens, our minds want to make sense of it. We want to unravel the cause, find the people responsible, and the sheer insanity of someone killing innocent children like this must have a logical reason buried beneath the appearance.
But the truth is, it is an insane act. It is hatred playing out. If we try to explain it, we go in circles of who killed who first and whose tribe started it.
It was a school for the children of the soldiers. Now the soldiers will exact revenge. And hatred will infect even more people. The suffering of the world is great. I am so sorry for the world today.
I think a university psychologist in Sydney was able to find the words for such perpetrators:
Psychopath(s) in search of a cause.
I wasn't referring to the perpetrators when I pointed out I couldn't find the words. I was referring to the quoted piece.
it implies that killing innocent adults, however, is perfectly ok.
So, why didn't they just stick to that?
Answer: because it has become less shocking.
We are becoming inured to Islamic acts of Violence. We are to all intents and purposes, becoming used and conditioned to reading about such things as suicide bombers, Ministry buildings, Embassies and Market Places.
we read about Bill Bloggs, who robbed a store, and Jimmy Jones, who beat up a neighbour and Hank Higgins who stole a car, and oh look, another bombing. Tsk tsk.... Terrible. Dreadful. Shameful. What is the world coming to? Honey, what's for dinner....?
So the killing of innocent Children is contrary to Islam.
But we got your attention now....didn't we?
It's up to the Law-abiding, righteous, upstanding members of all Muslim communities everywhere, to stand up and be counted and to say enough is enough, quit besmirching the Good name of Islam, and the reputation of just, gentle, kind and ordinary Muslim citizens everywhere, by these unspeakable acts of horror.
I would love to see Muslims everywhere, stand up in defiance, and yell from the rooftops, "This does not represent us! This is NOT who we are! We will not stand for this one second longer!"
And that's not a criticism. I swear it isn't.
It's a heart-felt, earnest and sincere wish.
@Lobster. This morning Ahmed Rashid in an interview from Lahore broadcast on NPR mentioned the revenge factor. Also the awarding of the Nobel peace prize to Malala Yousafzai. None of the above justify the killing of children. But unless we understand the motives of the Taliban in Pakistan we cannot end what they are doing.
For myself I would like to extend my arms to the victims and draw them in close to my heart.
Sorry @federica but I don't think law abiding, peaceful muslims should have any obligation to do such a thing.
Surely it's a given that it doesn't represent them or do you somehow think it does?
It certainly doesn't where I come from!!
Should I have to stand up and apologise for the Aussie thugs who took part in the Cronulla riots of 2005? I don't think I do as to me it's a given that other people know it doesn't represent who I am even though they were waving / wearing my flag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots
I was also very pleased to see this story after the recent siege in Sydney. People responding with compassion and tolerance as opposed to hate and revenge.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-17/illridewithyou-badges-handed-out-to-melbourne-commuters/5973554
Perhaps it's the culture that's sick: Pathology of the spirit (Breath, Psyche).
I am convinced that Adolph Hitler wasn't a lone psychopath in Nazi Germany. I believe that the Taliban are psychopathss [sick!]. Any military response to them, though it may in the end not stop further attacks, is meant as a surgical strike to get rid of the cancer. as it were. War is a pathology among us, and causes people to do heinous things.
Still, you can pretty much judge a thing by its fruits. The Taliban are psychopaths joined together who cannot truly see anything but their own puny, selfish desires. Their "self" may be a many-headed monster, but that collective self has no remorse. That is so because it writes off all "non-self" as worthless dung.
Very reminiscent of the Nazis and their psychopathic zeal —or of the Serbians under Milosevic —or of the Liberian slaughters some years back —and on and on and on!
Mass psychopathic fervor killing or dying for a cause.
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I didn't say they should.
I just think it would be a good thing, under the circumstances, and I am frankly surprised that there has not been more in local/Western/National media from any Muslim faction simply discussing or speaking about it.
But sadly, certainly in some quarters, they are conspicuous by their silence.
It could, in all honesty, be fear of reprisal, and with things as they stand, I would neither be surprised, nor would I blame them.....
Today I heard the Taliban describe as "fascists of the theocratic variety" and I think that's a pretty accurate description.
I was generally against UK troops being in Afghanistan to combat the Taliban, I'm now reassessing that view.
Meanwhile our thoughts must be with the victims.
I was told once by a Muslim that there was plenty of condemnation and outrage among the Muslim population when it comes to terrorism and outlaws like ISIS, if you watch Arabic language networks and read their newspapers. He claimed our Western media is simply ignoring it and focusing on the extremists and fundamentalists in third world countries. He claimed just because most Muslims support Palestinian statehood, the entire West thinks they're Islamists wanting to destroy Israel. I guess he had a point. After all, there is an English language Al Jazeera network I've never bothered to check.
Thanks @Cinorjer, of course, that makes a lot of sense.
I avoided one of the 7/7 London tube bombs by 24 hours, so forgive me for not being that interested in "media bias".
Unfortunately we are manipulated into thinking that the world exists in a certain way by whatever local news coverage we read or watch.
Actual reality is vastly different.
You're right, @Bunks. Having once been the "victim" of wholly inaccurate press/media coverage myself, (albeit parochially local) you can say that again!
But the fact remains that the Taliban slaughtered a load of school children.
Yes, there are bad people out there, and brutal tribes with people in it that don't think twice about slaughtering children. Even in places like Saudi Arabia, women can be executed for almost no reason. Anyplace where religion rules, it always seems to end in brutality, doesn't it?
Really? That sucks! A lady I work with was reasonably close to some people who were unfortunately involved in a murder case. She read out the piece about it from a newspaper and pointed out all the inaccuracies.
It still doesn't change the fact that I read articles and take them as fact!
That's why I tend to just read the sports section. At least I have usually watched the game being commented on so have some idea about the facts.
A friend of mine (long before newspapers were produced online) was an independent freelance paginator, working for the UK press. Basically, the UK national papers would issue copy, and he and his colleagues would turn articles into column inches, and organise the page-spreads. He tells me that the only news he ever really trusted was the small snippets of "latest 'hot-off-the-'phone' " news items that came in at the very last moment, usually from reporters on some scene of newsworthy drama.
They didn't have time to embellish, lie, expand or sensationalise. It was there, in brief, fast in order to catch the print deadline for publication, ASAP.
(Reuters, I think it was, mainly. It's a London-Based Company that specialises in channelling up-to-the-minute, latest news....)
I've always been fairly fluffy towards any religion, but now I'm listening to Ayaan Hirsi Ali
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali
She's an ex-Muslim from Somalia. My views towards Islam are changing.
I'll read that in detail, thanks for the Link, @Tosh.
If she interests you, google for some of her interviews on youtube. She's quite a special lady who needs 24 hour protection so she isn't murdered by Islamic fundamentalists, like her Dutch colleague was. A note to her was left on his dead body; it was 'pinned' to his body with a knife.
But sorry, I know this is about those poor children.
I think it's an appropriate time to remind ourselves of something I believe is a further "Noble Truth":
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http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.intro.budd.html
Aspects of us all
Arises and then must fall
because that is all...
I can remember that, I am Dutch. To many murders....
I think that is all the truth or very close to the truth, @Nirvana.
It's incredibly, deeply scary to realize at some point, a group - a society turned just like that into a seething monstrosity. It triggers in me, thoughts about how it sure seems like we're a monkey's uncle, however that came to be - whether hybridized by aliens or whatever. Our only hope, no matter how it came about, is that quite a few people are awake, and they say more are becoming awake and aware.
But where did they come from? What fueled their hate, and what brought them to organize into action? It's easy for us to say "it doesn't matter, there's no reason for that kind of action." But we don't live the lives they live, either. We don't feel the weight of our policies and actions on the rest of the world. We don't even know what they are. Our actions (as the US I mean) have contributed to a lot of the hatred in the world today. There are always catalysts and the US behavior in other parts of the world is one of them. But then we turn around and justify our own bad behavior while condemning that of others. How many children have we killed over just the page 13 years?
We can't do much on a global scale, but we CAN look in the mirror. This opinion piece is in response to the torture report the US government put out last week, and it is kind of long, but I find it worth reading and I think it applies here, too. Just things to think about.
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/17/we_are_fing_sadists_we_are_not_decent_and_we_are_not_a_democracy/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
So much pain in the world today and every day. But I bet there are some pretty horrific things that happen that we never hear about, never have a chance to start a discussion topic about, because our media chooses not to tell us. We're tired of hearing about Ebola since it's not in the US anymore, so nevermind the 7000 new cases, and 2100 deaths in the past month.
That is not meant to lessen the impact of this event and the horrific deaths of those children. I just try to keep perspective and not get as much carried up in the emotion the media delivers when I know there are plenty of equally horrifying things I never hear of.
I don't think there's anything even approximating the horrors of a Newtowne, Conn. school shooting of first graders or this massacre. For me, It's the paradigmatic question of Alyosha Karamazov about whether sacrificing the whole world would be worse than sacrificing the life of a little child. These are unspeakable acts of wanton cowardice and cruelty just for the sake of meanness.
In another thread right now, on how the universe is essentially 99.9% empty space, I think it has been shown that there is so much space out there so as to be able to liberate us from the chains that would bind us down. It's all a matter of choice. With so much space, nothing is really fixed, unless we erect our own psychological barriers. You could live in a very nice family in a very affluent neighborhood in a very prosperous country and in good times —surrounded by uplifting people and amazing things: And still you could dwell on the negative things such as how much people stank when they went to the bathroom, &c, &c. You could be miserable if you so chose. On the other hand, you could live with hardship after hardship and in pain —and still allow yourself to be transformed into something that refused to see the boundaries of your being ending at your skin and at your fingertips.
I think that is the teaching of the Masters, that we should identify (if identify we must) with our true nature, which is not stingily meted out to us in finite quantity. We are the World. When we think we are smaller —or that others are smaller— that is precisely where our troubles begin.
Mature relations between the world's peoples means letting go of the old hatreds and replacing them with dialogue. Undue pride between two persons is just silly; between two peoples it is really dangerous. Inflicting death on innocent children is in no way raising a signal for dialogue to commence anytime soon.
But who expects psychopaths to be under control, anyhow?
But to suggest that they might have some kind of point really sticks in my crawl.
I'm not saying they have a point in the way you are suggesting. I'm not making excuses for what they have done. I'm just saying that continuing to maintain a false belief that no one has anything to do with the choices these terrorist groups make. It doesn't make what they do ok. But it could very well be that some of these groups wouldn't exist if it weren't for the actions of others. Everything is interconnected in that way. Everything has a root cause, and for something like this it doesn't stop at the fact the acts are cowardly and done for the sake of being mean and attempting to punish others. There is a root cause to that, too, and to pretend no one has any responsibility in that is kind of naive. We vote in the people who make decisions, and I think we can do a better job in our choices. I think we can do a better job in what and who we choose to support with our votes, our dollars, or even just our words. Just like with Newtown, we've helped create the situations by the society we are running. It still doesn't make it ok that people make those choices. But perhaps some of them wouldn't be as driven to make those choices.
There will always be troublemakers. They take some sort of perverse enjoyment from it —either that or it cuts the boredom —or both. And, hey, doing it with a whole gang makes it all the more big and glorious. I daresay that the element of psychology is in play here more than some might want to admit.
Just opining that some things are inexcusable. Like sabotaging the wedding of some relative just to spite the bride, to change the subject a little. That, too, shows psychological problems, IMO.
I think there are also elements of envy and contempt for "infidel" pride and presence as some in "those parts" are exposed through media to the affluence of the West.
I don't think that you can find a root cause for such disdain and hatred without looking deep within the human heart.
The exposure to violence has something to do with perpetuating it. We began to understand that a couple decades ago with the bloody murderous video games and kids saying they just wanted to be like some character in a violent movie. In the case of the Middle East the exposure to violence and disregard for certain human lives is there from birth.
My nieces and nephew were raised on a farm that grows fryers (chickens). I almost vomited in horror at how casual they were with the baby chicks. It was like the chicks were no more a living thing than a carrot. They are perfectly normal kids otherwise, with pets they love. From birth chickens have never been respected as a living being. I wonder if the conditions in the Middle East promote a similar deep seated attitude within it's citizens. Heck, look at us, what we are inured to to even enjoy a hamburger.
Few weeks back I thought of watching Al Jazeera news channel and then I watched it. After that I watched it for few more days and I was so impressed that these days I watch Al Jazeera quite often, whenever i get some time to watch TV, which obviously is under the control of first my daughter in morning by watching cartoon channels and then in afternoon by my wife watching drama serials and then in evening by my parents watching their daily piece of daily soap drama serials. But I will say I like Al Jazeera more than BBC World News and as per me, Al Jazeera is the best news channel I have ever watched till now.
Coming back to the topic of this thread, I have not read all the posts above, so whatever I am writing below may already have been written above. Everybody has their own perspective to look at things and whatever any person thinks is right as per him and that each person acts in accordance with his view. The problem as usual is greed to get more, hatred to balance the unjustice and ignorance to not go within ourself. Who started the injustice is a vain activity as it will keep on going on in circles. Buddha taught that hatred cannot be ceased by hatred, but by love and kindness.
May all sentient beings try to look within themselves and be at peace within themselves. Metta to all sentient beings.
Guys,
Mothers have lost children. Now we know what a powerful almost beyond comprehension emotive force is capable of. Unspeakable.
I want to tell you of some of my quiet friends:
When I last year visited a local mosque, the security guard shared his meal with me without any ostentation. When I was undergoing an awakening process it was a non practicing Moslem who guided me through some of the obstacles.
When I became a Moslem from the Sufi tradition, someone without any fuss arranged and funded a party for me. Another Moslem took me around all the many mosques meeting my new family. This was a man deeply scarred and burned when he entered a burning building to save children. I met and continue to meet such people.
You want more? They are all around for those who care to look.
The Sufi, Ismaili and Ahmidhya Moslems are often shunned and yet they have teachings and practices based around love, compassion, education and charity that put the Dalai Lama to shame.
I now label myself as Buddhist, I do not condone or excuse Buddhist inspired atrocities
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo
Humanity has lost children. Please know that we are all I trust on the side of hope. It is when these hellish scenarios unfold that we are temporarily pushed beyond our capacity . . .
Have been struggling for a while with the condemnation of others I seem to see fairly regularly on this site. It's bad enough that Christians seem to have forgotten that our faith is about unconditional love and nothing but unconditional love, but isn't compassion an essential in the Buddhist philosphy? That was the impression I got from reading HH DL ...
I can feel nothing but compassion for the perpetrators of this outrage. How much must they have suffered to feel they had no option but to do something like this? How can life have become so meaningless to them that they believe things will be better for them if they kill others and then themselves? How can anyone achieve such a perverted view of the Koran that they can come to think that some greater power will give credit in some after life for such behaviour? I feel exactly the same for a mother who kills her own children. What terrible circumstances she must have faced to believe this is the only way out - whether she comes there through drugs or from some impossible situation that her brain just can't deal with: doctors forcing life ruining "treatment" on her kids or whatever.
Perhaps it is too late for some of these folk - they have been too damaged - and society needs to protect itself. But that doesn't stop me from feeling compassion that they are so damaged. Not sure what action I can take - I don't speak the right languages - but I can at least refrain from judging when I have never experienced what they have to drive them to these extremes.
As for the victims - well, from every interview I have heard, I can feel nothing but awe. Long may they refuse to be beaten, to descend to the same level.
Seems I have begun to find words ... 'nuff said.